I need some opinions on a new 30-30 mould

[45&30-30]

I am returning a RCBS 30-180 FN, I have tried several ways of getting my mould to cast bullets better than .305 to my satisfaction. What I would like to know is, now that I have some discretion on a new mould from Midway. Which should I get to fullfill the duty of hunting deer and occasional elk, very occasional? Try for another 30-180? RCBS 30-150 FN? or Lyman 311041?

One last question...you would have to be blind to not know that the Lyman 311440 is well respected here, but does it truly offer that much more than a RCBS 30-150 FN? I'm not trying to get everyone fired up, just want to know, before I make my next purchase. Thanks all.

[garandsrus]

I don't think you would go wrong with either of your choices...

John

[GabbyM]

Last summer I returned an under sized RCBS 30-180-FN. After a couple months RCBS sent me a very good mold. With cast bullets in it. Looked like they tested them to pick out a good one. Skinny I heard on this is they are made in India now and reject rate is around 40%.

Assume you did weigh one to see it will finish out at close to 200 grains with 50/50 alloy. Their's your occasional big game boolit when you get your mold back.

I don't know what a RCBS 30-150 would weigh. Since they calibrate the weight to Linotype. May not be much lighter than a Lyman #311041 which may go 176 grains in soft alloy.

Did you send your mold back to Midway or straight to RCBS?

[405]

Yep,
I've noticed that unless your bore groove diameter is very small, finding a new mass production mold is really a crap shoot. Some replies you'll get may go something like, "you'e just not using the right alloy to get the diameter you want". OK, that may or may not work, particularly if you're goal is casting say a 30 or 40-1 alloy. Well, my experience is that no matter the alloy many of these molds simply cast UNDERSIZED bullets... period. After all the hassle, time, back and forth shipping, extra money and so on it seems a better choice may be to "bite the bullet" and just order a custom cut mold that WILL cast exactly the right bullet for a particular gun/load/purpose.

[PatMarlin]

.305 no kiddin' ..?

Dang. I guess if it's such a darn crap shoot now, might as well stick with midway until you get a good one./\ ..:roll:

[frank505]

The Saeco # 307 is a wonderful bullet and they are outstanding molds. Weighs 180 gas checked and sized to .310. I load em with 32 grains of 4895, a 1936 carbine and 1954 model 64 deluxe absolutly love the load. Rcbs predicates their molds with 10:1, Saeco uses 20:1 or 2-6-92 depending on the mold.

[Bret4207]

Last summer I returned an under sized RCBS 30-180-FN. After a couple months RCBS sent me a very good mold. With cast bullets in it. Looked like they tested them to pick out a good one. Skinny I heard on this is they are made in India now and reject rate is around 40%.

Assume you did weigh one to see it will finish out at close to 200 grains with 50/50 alloy. Their's your occasional big game boolit when you get your mold back.

I don't know what a RCBS 30-150 would weigh. Since they calibrate the weight to Linotype. May not be much lighter than a Lyman #311041 which may go 176 grains in soft alloy.

Did you send your mold back to Midway or straight to RCBS?

HUH!!! India??? Anyone know if this is true?

[leadman]

That might explain the RCBS molds I got awhile back from Midway, the .410", 210 grain Keith SWC with the boolits casting with a "step" in them. One side of the nose was higher than the other and the driving bands did not line up. After 2 molds I called RCBS to see if they had anymore. They checked their stock and all were cut the same way.

[45&30-30]

Looks like I'm not alone, I bought ten moulds in a two year period 4 to 5 years ago and they all arrived perfect (meaning perfect diameter with WW's and dropped from the moulds easily) the last two have been disasters. Looks like luck of the draw now.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I recently acquired a Saeco 315 off a forum member here. (Saeco still makes them too.) It is a nominal 175grs. It was made more for benchrest shooting, but if fine accuracy is what you're looking for out of your 30-30, I'd give it a look. I plan on using it in my 30-30.

Also, with the RCBS thing that sounds like it's going on, I'd look hard at a Lyman 411407. It's the flat-tip version of the 311467 Loverin design, and is also around 173 grs. FP makes it suitable for tubular magazine. Not sure on the neck length vs. seating depth vs. the base of the bullet sticking down into the powder chamber of the case though...

[cbrick]

Bret, no idea if they are made in India now or not but I can attest to the fact that for the last few years getting a "good" RCBS mould really is a "crap shoot", you might but just as likely you'll be shipping your new mould back to Oroville with a note that says . . . What the hey is this? The last one I shipped back two weeks ago and haven't heard back from them yet. I've shipped 2 of the last 3 RCBS moulds I bought back, the first they did replace but what a pain in the hieny. Seems to me it would make more sense to just make it right in the first place . . . like they used to.

It is my experience that RCBS mould quality and quality control has been in the toliet for the past couple of years. What a shame.

Rick

[MakeMineA10mm]

I know for a fact that RCBS has moved their press forgings out of the country. IIRC, they get the raw castings or forgings from China and finish-machine them here.

[Cooter]

A quick call to RCBS on their customer service number, and a couple questions, a slight wait while they asked someone who "knows", and I was left with the following information:

All RCBS presses are still 100% made in the USA, from start to finish. I specifically asked about starting with Chinese castings and them being finish machined here in the states.
All RCBS Molds are currently still 100% made in the USA from start to finish as well.

I am not trying to question the veracity of anyones information, or get into a pissing match, just posting what RCBS told me over the phone.

Their Customer Service number is:
1-800-533-5000

Perhaps someone else can obtain different information from them than I was given.

According to RCBS, and I am going on memory here after being distracted upon hanging up, and Mozilla Crashing.. . is that one of their scales is made in China, the 750 I believe it is, and some case gauge or something. Also the micrometers, and little stuff like that.

I did not ask about their suspect quality control on their molds.

Hope this helps.

[PatMarlin]

With all the tweekers in Oroville, RCBS would have a labor source that could out perform the Chinese. Cept the shrinkage would be pretty steep ..:mrgreen:

[Jon K]

Rick,

I hope you're not right about the failure rate, cause I just ordered a mould agaist my better judgement, cause I figured it's the only 44-40 mould I have yet to try. I started having trouble with daylight and fit about 5-6 years ago and this will be my first NEW.. RCBS mould since then. I would like to think I have about even odds of getting a good one.............50/50, or is that a pipe dream?

Jon

[NoDakJak]

I purchased a new RCBS 30-150-FN about a year ago. Using WW alloy it drops an oval boolit that measures 307/309. The nose is even worse and mikes 294/298. I haven't been able to get better than seven inch groups out of four 30-30's that I have tried them in. Was planning on sending it back but luckily tried it im my Ruger #3 that is chambered for 30-40. For some reason that rifle loves it and I have fired a number of 5/8 to 7/8 inch groups with it at fifty yards. Good luck. By contrast I also bought a new 32-98-FN that is fantastic. Neil

[GabbyM]

Starting today the USPS has a new small flat rate box for $4.95.
Good way to send all that out of spec stuff back to them.
That's the way college trained MBA's do quality control. If the molds don't come back they figure they were good enough. It must show up on their bar and pie charts to draw any attention.

[AlaskaMike]

Cooter, I'm surprised--that sounds like it directly contradicts an article I read in Handloader not too long ago. I just found it, it's #242, August 2006. "A Tour of RCBS" by John Haviland. There's a picture of a bunch of raw castings of press frames, and the caption reads, "Facing page, these castings of reloading presses are imported from China by RCBS."

It's possible that since that article they've switched sources for the castings, but I'm guessing it's more likely that the employees were just incorrect. Haviland appears to have got his information from Allan Jernigan, General Manager of RCBS. One would think that if the China info wasn't correct, RCBS would be pushing for a correction in a future issue, and I haven't seen any.

Mould manufacture is mentioned on page 36, where he quotes Jernigan talking about the time and money they saved since they started making the cherries on a CNC machine. The article doesn't directly say it, but implies strongly that all mould work at RCBS is done in-house.

Mike

[Cooter]

Cooter, I'm surprised--that sounds like it directly contradicts an article I read in Handloader not too long ago. I just found it, it's #242, August 2006. "A Tour of RCBS" by John Haviland. There's a picture of a bunch of raw castings of press frames, and the caption reads, "Facing page, these castings of reloading presses are imported from China by RCBS."

It's possible that since that article they've switched sources for the castings, but I'm guessing it's more likely that the employees were just incorrect. Haviland appears to have got his information from Allan Jernigan, General Manager of RCBS. One would think that if the China info wasn't correct, RCBS would be pushing for a correction in a future issue, and I haven't seen any.

Mould manufacture is mentioned on page 36, where he quotes Jernigan talking about the time and money they saved since they started making the cherries on a CNC machine. The article doesn't directly say it, but implies strongly that all mould work at RCBS is done in-house.

Mike


Hi Mike!

removed

Edited To Add:

I just got done calling RCBS and speaking with their customer service department, this is the nuts and bolts of the resulting conversations:

According to "Alice" at RCBS, they DID outsource their press castings at one time, but the presses did not meet their quality standards. The presses are now made at a foundry in Oakland and are 100% American Made.

I just spoke with a gentleman named "Larry" on the phone who is familiar with the RCBS mold problem. Apparently the issue with bad molds came down to (to paraphrase) the man that was in charge of the mold cutting for the last 20 to 25 years got hurt, and never came back to work. The new guy was unfamiliar with the process and the tooling was old and worn out. While the old guy was familiar with it and could make quality molds with it still, the new guy was unable to. They did recognize there was a problem, and have since corrected it by retooling and are now cutting molds that are within .0005" tolerances. He is a pretty open and knowledgable sounding person and easy to talk to.
Larry went on to say that there may be some bad molds still floating around out there, and if you get one, new or used, to send it in. If it's one of their bad molds, they will replace it.
All molds go through him, and so he is the man to talk to.

He actually was Management before RCBS was sold off, got retired out, and since has gone back to work for RCBS in Customer Service.

RCBS has a warranty on their products and they will stand behind that warranty. If you have a bad mold, give them a call and send it in.


End of paraphrasing the rest is me:

It's probably only fair to give them a chance to make it right.

Anyhow that's the information I have...and that's the sources I got it from at RCBS.
I hope this helps.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks Mike. That's the article I had read and did not have the energy to go look up.

And thanks to Cooter, too! It's good to know that RCBS has gone back to American-made...

[Cooter]

No problem. I'm just a new guy who doesn't know much, and wanted to help out while satisfying my own curiosity at the same time.

I've learned a lot in this thread.. so thank you guys!

[Jon K]

I ordered a 44 mould, which just arrived late yesterday, cleaned it up checked it out..........NO DAYLIGHT, fit looks good, and if the rain lets up enough today, I'll try it out.
Glad to see things are looking up at RCBS...........looks better than the last 3 I bought.

Jon

[RSOJim]

Hi All, I attended the 2009 Orlando Shot Show and spent some time at the RCBS setup. I ask many questions of the two engineers representing RCBS. Yes all bullet molds are cut in house and always have been. The mold blocks are made in the USA. Yes the fellow that made them for 30 years retired. Yes a new fellow has had some problems. Yes these problems have been resolved. A random sample of new molds are used for casting bullets in house to see if they meet specs. This is their quality control and always has been. There is only one person that does all this. All RCBS electronics come from China. Press castings were coming from China but the Chinese got too greedy and now are cast here in the USA except for some small parts which still come from China, I didn't ask which parts. RCBS now has a new progressive press which is impressive. Thats all for now. Thanks Jim

[PatMarlin]

Did you happen to ask if they can stop making them under size?