Powder for comfortable 9x19 and 38 spl loads

[Wooserco]

I'm not sure where to post this.

I'm loading for 9x19 and 38 spl. In this shortage era, I'm looking for a powder that will load for comfortable plinking/range loads. I'm down to less than half a pound of Bullseye and looking for a powder that will work for both.

[Jester560]

I use CFE Pistol for everything from mouse farther loads to 9mm major power factor.

I do not load .38 Sp but load data is available for it.

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[Pete44mag]

I use either W231 or Titegroup for both loads. W231 seems most accurate in the mid range in my guns and Titegroup more so on the higher end. HP38 is the same as W231.

[Outpost75]

WST also works well in this application and is an excellent .45 ACP powder as well.

A charge of 3.7-3.9 grains with 158 LRN matches old school police service velocity in .38 Special and is a safe start load in 9mm with 124-grain cast lead. May need to increase to 4.2 to get reliable function. In .45 ACP 4.2-4.5 grains approximates factory wadcutter with H&G #130 and 5.0-5.2 approximates hardball velocity with #452374.

[Huskerguy]

I am with Pete above. I tend to favor W231/HP38 with Titegroup a close second and somewhat dependent on the firearm. I also have CFE Pistol but have only used it in 45. There are others but any of these three will serve you well.

[racepres]

Red Dot... in everything I own...
Plus is... most shops have it in stock...and Not as Pricey...
But... there are more glamorous options...

[johnsonian09]

I use bullseye for 38sp and 9mm

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[Divil]

I like Winchester 244 in .38 Special. With a 125-130 lead boolit 4.6 grains is magic.

[ryanmattes]

I'll second titegroup. If you aren't loading hot you can get 1800-2000 rounds out of a pound.

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[Tar Heel]

The question will be answered by what is available.

[badguybuster]

Sport Pistol makes some pretty mild loads

[dverna]

The question will be answered by what is available.

Agree...what I use is useless to you if you cannot get it. Some good suggestions but look at a manual and write all the powders they used. You may not have the best powder but one that works and is safe.

Good luck.

[Lloyd Smale]

The question will be answered by what is available.

thats about it. today we feed them with what we can get. thankfully i have 4 kegs of aa2 and still have 3 kegs of pr200 which is the same thing in surplus. clean burning and accurate. If it was all available again id stick with aa2.

[avogunner]

Bullseye seems to have lost favor over the years but that's been my go-to for .38, .45ACP, and 9mm for a long time. A pound goes a long way.

[Green Frog]

Another vote for 231/HP38 if you can find it. I’m actually moving toward this powder over my long preferred Bullseye. Also, around here at least, it’s more readily available. I’ve also used both Green Dot and 700X for a bunch of 38 WC and SWC loads but I can’t speak to their suitability in 9mm.

Froggie

[Thunder Stick]

Never had great accuracy success with Bullseye and I found it to be a dirty powder. Some of my best loads in both 9X19 and 38 Special are made with WW231.

[GhostHawk]

I'm with racepres Red Dot in everything. 5-6 years ago I started looking for single powder that could do it all, shotgun, rifle low velocity and pistol. Red Dot was the answer I have found and I have stashed 30 pounds, much of it at times when powder was scarce as hen's teeth.

9mm I have run from 3 gr in pistol up to 4,5 gr in carbine or single shot rifle. That gives you a pretty wide range.
.38special I have not loaded a lot of, but I followed my bood recomendation of 158 gr cast round nose over 3.5 grains.
Good shooting accurate load.

From 2 grains in .32sw long to 13 grains in .444marlin it just plain works.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

In 9mm with a 125 grain boolit I use 6 of HS-6 for about 1100 fps. 231 or bullseye work well in .38 spl. I will add that I tried unigue in 9mm and found it accurate with it's typically pleasing recoil impulse. ( if you can live with it's poor metering ).

[rintinglen]

Powders useful for the 9x19 and 38 Spl are numerous. Bullseye, Red Dot, Promo, Green Dot, American Select, Unique, BE 86, Power Pistol, Titegroup, Titewad, HP38/WW231, Autocomp, CFE Pistol, Universal, AA #2, AA #5, Solo 100,True Blue, Zip: all have published data for both cartridges.
Also Vitavouri powders N320, N330, N340 and N37C, Shooters World Clean Shot, Sport Pistol have data available. Then there are shot gun powders Like Herco, HS-6, Clays, and WST that have some applications.

My personal preferences are for HP38/WW231, Power Pistol, Titegroup, Bullseye, Unique, but these were conditioned by what has been most available and cheapest where I lived in the last 50 years.

There are many, many choices available. You see what's available, and check for loads that might work for you, then buy what you can. Security comes from having an 8 lb keg of what you like, with 2 or three years worth of primers.

[jonp]

Promo.

[reddog81]

The question will be answered by what is available.

Yeah, there are so many powders that'll work it'd be hard to list them all. The biggest determining factor is what you can find,

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Strange after all these years I have never tried any of the "dot" powders. Will have to put that right if I can find some local.

[Ed_Shot]

Promo.

Totally agree.

[scattershot]

I like Red Dot in just about any handgun round. If you can find Promo, it uses the same data, and is cheaper.

[Pine Baron]

I agree with the Red Dot/promo crowd. I use it for 9mm, 38/357, .45acp, and 12 ga. Recently picked up a couple lbs. of ACC #5, and have to work that up, and see. You get what's available.

[FergusonTO35]

Don't overlook the Hodgdon copies of popular Alliant powders. IMR Target is a good Bullseye substitute and burns cleaner too.

[zarrinvz24]

W231. The hype is real, it meters like a dream.

[Yonk]

I like True Blue in 38 Special and 9mm. It measures well in my 550. I recently picked up a 4 lb'er of Titegroup to try out in the 38 Special.

[Good Cheer]

AA#5 is OK.

[smkummer]

Yep, 231/HP38 meters well and works well in both.

[JCM45]

Totally agree.

Me too.

[anothernewb]

231 is also another one I like in all of those.

VV320/340 is another alternative that may actually be around and in stock. A shop about an hour from me has has 320 and 340 on the shelf for several months straight now. Not cheap - but better than nothing.

[JoeJames]

I have used both 231/HP38 and Bullseye. For some reason, perhaps just habit, I go to Bullseye most of the time. Probably because I have worked up most of my 38 Special wc and swc loads with it and I am used to it.

[gwpercle]

Powders useful for the 9x19 and 38 Spl are numerous. Bullseye, Red Dot, Promo, Green Dot, American Select, Unique, BE 86, Power Pistol, Titegroup, Titewad, HP38/WW231, Autocomp, CFE Pistol, Universal, AA #2, AA #5, Solo 100,True Blue, Zip: all have published data for both cartridges.
Also Vitavouri powders N320, N330, N340 and N37C, Shooters World Clean Shot, Sport Pistol have data available. Then there are shot gun powders Like Herco, HS-6, Clays, and WST that have some applications.

My personal preferences are for HP38/WW231, Power Pistol, Titegroup, Bullseye, Unique, but these were conditioned by what has been most available and cheapest where I lived in the last 50 years.

There are many, many choices available. You see what's available, and check for loads that might work for you, then buy what you can. Security comes from having an 8 lb keg of what you like, with 2 or three years worth of primers.

Along with all of the above ... add 700X . At one time it was the darling of the 45 acp target crowd and a good stand-in for Bullseye . In 38 special Target loads it fits right in with Bullseye , Red Dot (Promo is Red Dot without the red dots) 231 and HP38 .
Make a list of all these powders and carry it with you...buy whatever you find when you find it .
It's OK to be a Hoarder !
Gary

[Texas by God]

I've been using AA#2 to reserve my Bullseye stash and it's been just fine in easy shooting loads in .38 Special and .41 Special level loads. I'm going to try it in 9mm and .40 S&W soon.

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[justindad]

I like True Blue in 38 Special and 9mm. It measures well in my 550. I recently picked up a 4 lb'er of Titegroup to try out in the 38 Special.

I use True Blue in 9mm, 45ACP, 45 Colt, and .357SIG. I have to load it towards the top end of .45 Colt to make sure there’s no unburnt powder in the barrel.

The 9mm load is so light that it replaces my .22LR for trigger practice. Gun was surprisingly clean after 75 rounds of 9mm with True Blue and Felix/Wilgen lube.

[engineer401]

I've had good luck with 231 and Titegroup in both cartridges. I've had slightly better results with 231.

[AlaskaMike]

I'm definitely in the 231/HP38 camp as well. That said, I also have AA2 and AA5, and they do just as well.

Hopefully you can find some powder that will work for you. As others have said, I honestly think anything that's around Unique on the burn rate chart, or faster should work just fine for you.

[Forrest r]

Actually it's pretty hard not to find a powder that won't work in the 9mm/38spl.

3 of the less common powers that come to mind that do well for target work/highly accurate, low powder consumption per round, low recoil in those calibers:

American select, a little harder to meter throw consistently (+/- .2gr compared to bullseye powder +/- .1gr) but it has more bulk/takes up more case volume (20% more than bullseye) making it less position sensitive/consistent.

WW WST, meters like water and extremely accurate when you get to +/- 95% case fill.

AA #2, another powder that meters like water that does extremely well with +/- 95% case fill.

Perhaps it's just me but specific powders tend to run at their best within pressure ranges for the cartridge being used. Once you find that "sweet" spot the actual bullet being used becomes less important.

[Bmi48219]

I’ll chime in with TiteGroup also. Burns clean even with light loads, relatively inexpensive too. Using mild charges I can load 1,000 each of 38 HBWC and 9mm 115 RN and only use one pound total. Just be aware it’s a dense, low volume powder that doesn’t occupy much space, especially in 38 spec. Never had ignition issues.

[Char-Gar]

Well, as long as you are going to have to hunt whatever powder up and probably pay a big price, just get more Bullseye.

[Char-Gar]

Bullseye seems to have lost favor over the years but that's been my go-to for .38, .45ACP, and 9mm for a long time. A pound goes a long way.

Yes, it has lost favor among the Ignoranti!

[rintinglen]

Availability moved more people from Bullseye than ignorance.

I moved away from Bullseye due to frequent dry spells, when I couldn't find any, like now. When my girls were young and I found myself repeatedly getting bounced out of work as various concerns were bought and sold I could not afford the luxury of stockpiling a bunch of powder. When I had 10-20 dollars to spare, I could pick up a pound or two. But prior to the 1986 revision of Federal Law, you couldn't order powder, you bought what was on the shelf. In California, Hercules powders, other than shotgun powders, tended to be boom or bust. There were either plenty or none. It does little good to work up a brilliant load if you can't get fuel for it. I have generally have been able to Red Dot and WW231/HP38, so that's where I have gone.

Nowadays, my discretionary income is much greater, but I still haven't seen any Bullseye.

[Bmi48219]

Availability moved more people from Bullseye than ignorance.

I moved away from Bullseye due to frequent dry spells.

That’s why I tried TiteGroup. Unique & Bullseye were scarce and $22.00 + / pound when you could find them. A buddy gave me some TG to try. Burned cleaner and was $5.00 less per pound. I still have Unique but use TG for all my 380, 38, 9, 40 & 45 auto standard ammo.

[WRideout]

I am still using an ancient square can of Bullseye I picked up at an estate sale. For years I used Hercules dot powders, mostly red and green dot. Then about two years ago I found an 8 lb. jug of Promo (equal to Red Dot by weight) and immediatley snatched it up. The heavens opened up; angels descended. I use it in 9X19. 38 spc, 380 auto, and 45 ACP.

For light target loads, I would stay away from anything very slow. I found that Unique burns very dirty if it doesn't build enough pressure.

Wayne

[jonp]

I like Red Dot in just about any handgun round. If you can find Promo, it uses the same data, and is cheaper.

I have 6 kegs of Promo bought on sale about $100 each. Plan on it to be my target powder for years to come. If I can't load it with promo or unique im not not doing something right

[mobilemail]

I found a 4-lb container of Shooter's World Clean Shot just before the pandemic started. Since I only load pistol calibers it will last me a long, long time. It's a really fine powder, like sand, and meters very consistently in my LnL press. Now if I find a line on primers...

But I still keep bullseye too, still my favorite for .38 special target loads.

[AlaskaMike]

WW WST, meters like water and extremely accurate when you get to +/- 95% case fill.

AA #2, another powder that meters like water that does extremely well with +/- 95% case fill.


Be very careful when applying volumetric rules like this to two very different cartridges which operate at vastly different pressures. .38 Special has about twice the case volume as 9mm, and works with about half the pressure. 95% case fill in a .38 with AA #2 is about 10 grains. Regardless of bullet weight, 10 grains of AA #2 in .38 Special is a massive overload.

I know you were thinking specifically of 9mm when mentioning the 95% case fill, but wanted to mention this since we're talking about both 9mm and .38 Spl.

Stay safe out there!

[Wooserco]

Made a list of a powders listed. LGS (an hour away) was closed today. So, going shopping tomorrow. Wife said that this weekend is my birthday weekend (today is my birthday - 65 today), so anything that I buy is for my birthday. She also added to remember this weekend next November :)

Progressive press and other shooting gear will be delivered on Monday. Chaps my pants that it's been sitting 2 miles away at UPS since Friday :)

Thank You everyone for your suggestions. You've been most helpful.

BTW, I never realized just how dirty Bulleye was until after shooting 100 rounds through the stainless S&W revolver.

[Wooserco]

Well, of all of the powders on my list only WST was available. Limit of 1 - 4lb. jug. But I won the lottery!!! I scored a brick of Winchester WSP primers!!! Limit of one brick per customer per day. Wish I'd brought the wife along now. ONLY $80 / 1,000. Double what I used to pay, but better than being without.

[practical_man]

I have been pleased with 231 for a couple of decades. Works well in mid range target loads for .38, 9x19, 45 acp.

Others that work well for me in those cartridges:
Red Dot/Promo (also great for 12 gauge)
Bullseye
Clays
WST
WSF

Powders I have quit using in pistol cartridges:
Titegroup (burns too hot)
Unique (great for 28 and 20 gauge, not so accurate is handguns at moderate velocity)
Universal (similar to unique)

[Meatpuppet]

Sport Pistol for your applications.

[jonp]

Went back over my notes. I shoot the usual Promo, Unique etc. Some not so usual like Vectan GM3 but I had great luck with IMR Target. Very clean and accurate. From my notebook remarks I'd buy more Vectan if I could find it at a good price

[Chaparral66]

What ever is in stock that has load data for you desired caliber. Yes Bullseye seems dirty, but if you have it you can shoot. Autocomp #2 I found to meter poorly... always fell out of the sides of the metering system. I've tried Autocomp, Titegroup, Unique and Bullseye and a few .45 ACP rounds using Herco. I'm spending more time smelting, casting and coating than loading or shooting. Need to save what powder I have for the Zombie (COVID) apocalypse.

[Meatpuppet]

If Vectan is a possibility, I used Vectan Prima V for a long time in 9MM for USPSA shooting. Very "soft" shooting and clean burning.

9MM Blue Bullet 147gr / over Prima V 3.1gr / 1.09 OAL = 132 Power Factor

[Forrest r]

Well, of all of the powders on my list only WST was available. Limit of 1 - 4lb. jug. But I won the lottery!!! I scored a brick of Winchester WSP primers!!! Limit of one brick per customer per day. Wish I'd brought the wife along now. ONLY $80 / 1,000. Double what I used to pay, but better than being without.

Ya I'd hate to have a bunch of wst laying around[smilie=b:[smilie=b:

Actually everyone else feels the same way
https://i.imgur.com/N6XBlbc.jpg

That's only 10 shots @ 50ft but it's a start

[John Guedry]

I like Red Dot, AA2 for almost anything.

[curioushooter]

Unique works for me.

[openbook]

OP asked about a comfortable light load powder. I recently started out loading 9mm with Titegroup, and I've found that even at the starting load it cycles the action so hard my cases are hitting the roof of the covered firing line. I'm wanting to download to find a load that cycles the action reasonably enough for use with a brass catcher. Is it common for Titegroup to act like this?

I used a Lee 356-102-1R in an M&P Shield (original Shield) with the Lyman starting load of 4.2 gr Titegroup. Is the light bullet the cause?

[RKJ]

I like Clays. IIRC, 4.0 for 9mm and 45 ACP, easy shooting in both a HP and 1911's

[gwpercle]

I'm not sure where to post this.

I'm loading for 9x19 and 38 spl. In this shortage era, I'm looking for a powder that will load for comfortable plinking/range loads. I'm down to less than half a pound of Bullseye and looking for a powder that will work for both.

Easy shooting 9 X 19 load :
Lee 105 gr. cast lead SWC ( 358-105-SWC), sized .357 , 4.7 grs. Unique .
Lee 120 gr. cast TC (356-120-TC) sized .357 , 4.7 grs. Unique .

Easy shooting 38 Special Load :
148 gr. cast lead WC , 2.7 grs Bullseye .
Any cast lead bullet - 140 gr. to 160 gr. WC , SWC , RF - 4.7 grs. Unique .

Other powders that will do well are any of the faster powders : 700X , Titegroup , Bullseye , Red Dot , W231 , HP-38, Acc #2, there are a couple others like Herco and Green Dot that could be used but you don't see a lot of load data for them ... but if Herco or Green dot is all you can get ...buy it .

I've found in these days of shortage buy any and all pistol powders you can find and a little searching will turn up load data .

Bullseye and Unique are still my favorites and nothing can beat them ... 700X , Titegroup , Red Dot , W231 , HP-38 and Acc #2 come close ...but none beat them .
Gary

[robertbank]

Like others I use a lot of 231 in both calibers mentioned. 700X works well in both. For 38spl I like Clays for clean loads used in competition. Lots will work just depends whether you can find them. CFE Pistol works great when I use FMJ in the 9MM.

Take Care

Bob

[salvadore]

bullseye works for both, titegroup, aa #2, hp 38. Personally I like titegroupfor the type of loads you mentioned.

[waco]

I use Hodgdons Universal for 9mm and .38's