How Soon Do You Lube & Size

[insanelupus]

I was looking at the storage thread. I was just wondering, how soon after casting do you lube and size your bullets?

The reason I ask is that I have several designs I plan to use in different handguns and rifles of the same caliber. Of course several require a different size to be optimum for that load.

I cast out of AC WWs and size on an old Lyman 45 Lubesizer using LBT Blue Soft. I've heard about lead age hardening and I wondered if it hurt anything to store these bullets as cast and then lube and size them right before I loaded them for my particular application. Depending on how many I cast and what they get used for it could be up to a year or more before I'd get to size and lube them with this method.

Just wondering if folks lubed and sized right after casting (say the next day) or do you just wait till you need that bullet and lube and size then, (possibly months or years down the road)?

[lunicy]

I size them usually a day or two after casting. That way they are on hand ready for when I need em'

[JeffinNZ]

If I am oven heat treating for max BHN I will size them either prior to treating or very soon there after - before they harden. All others I size and lube as I need them.

[hyoder]

I give mine at least a couple of days.
Store them in a tight container so they don't pick up dust and dirt.

[Boerrancher]

For me it depends on what I am doing, and esp what alloy. For most of my shooting I shoot an air cooled 50/50 blend of Pure and WW. Since these are not that hard to begin with I generally size and lube them right after I cast them. That way they are ready to go. If I am running more than one mould, I may just dump the ones I don't need in a 3 lb coffee can after they are cool, and store them that way until I need some sized and lubed. Right now I seem to be storing up a lot of 429-205-RF's that haven't been lubed or sized. If this cold weather and snow doesn't let up I may have lots of unsized and unlubed boolits laying around.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Green Frog]

I usually try to let them get cool enough so the lube doesn't run right back off, but sometimes I get short of time. :kidding:

Seriously, I have seen no difference in immediate lubing and waiting until later, so it depends on what I am going to be using the bullets for. I like to lube my schuetzen and cast bench bullets within a day or two of being shot, regardless of when they are cast. Sometimes I will have some cast for several months or more when I start the shooting season, but I can never seem to get way far ahead.

Froggie

[keebo52]

If I am oven heat treating for max BHN I will size them either prior to treating or very soon there after - before they harden.

How much time before they harden after heat treating or water quenching? In other words, How much time do I have to get them sized without messing up the hardening process?

[felix]

Zero. ... felix

[357maximum]

When I waterdrop I size them right out of the bucket. I just use very soapy water and push through size them in a lee type die of the size I need. I can lube them anytime after that in an oversized H&I die without hurting anything that way.


I only cast for about an hour or two per design with my rifle/HV handcannon boolits.....drain the worst of the water off add some dishsoap swirl em around a bit....dump them into a large cake pan...push em all through the sizer....back into the bucket for a rinse....lay them out onto some old towels to dry...then I store them until it is time to lube them in the oversized die...tadaaaaaaa


I have an older RCBS partner press that has never seen a loading die...I bought it NIB old stock and it serves that one and only purpose...wetsizing on it's own little bench in the utility room.

[schutzen]

I have 2-3000K of 158 grain slugs that I cast 12 years ago and did not lube. I lost them in a storage shed and just poured more. We found them last year and have been lubing them as need to load 38/357's. They are working fine and I can not tell any difference in the accuracy of the bullets cast this year or those cast 12 years ago.

[dromia]

I lube and size as soon as possible after casting, just so they are ready to go.

I rarely cast more than 500 at a session, its usually more like 1-200 or around 50 if its the big bore soft lead BP jobbies.

[Dutch4122]

With Air Cooled Wheel Weight or any softer alloy I have never had a problem waiting a year before I size and lube.

I have sized/lubed water dropped boolits 4 months after they were cast & water dropped without a problem. They did require a little more force on the handle of my Star sizer, but not much. Alloy was 50% wheel weight and 50% pure lead.

Hope this helps,

[Bret4207]

The only time I made a special effort to lube right after casting was some real hard WQ experimental boolits-ended up over 35 BHN!!! The rest of the time it's mostly AC or WQWW and my sizer systems all handle them fine.

[joeb33050]

If I have plans for the bullets and know the correct diameter, I lube and size whenever I have time.

If the bullets are not going to a certain use, I don't lube size until I know what gun they're going in. I have sets of generic = for ?? gun bullets, unsized unlubed.

Don't want to look at 600 bullets sized .309" when I need some sized .312". I've done that, now I wait.
joe b.

[Tyro]

If you water quench, I recommend sooner rather than later. Quenching makes bullets hard. After a couple of weeks they are getting very hard.

[Matt_G]

It has always been my understanding that water quenching is only a viable solution when:
A) You need a hardness level higher than your alloy will attain air cooled.
and
B) The bullet as cast is the correct diameter for it's intended use. In other words, it doesn't need to be sized.

If the bullet needs to be sized it will work soften, and thus render the WQ a moot point.
If the bullet as cast is too soft AND needs to be sized and/or gas checked, then that needs to be done, then heat treat them in the oven. Then you can lube them using an oversize die, which will not work soften the bullet.

Am I missing something here, because I am seeing that a some of you guys WQ bullets that need to be sized down.

[fecmech]

When I water quench I size as soon as possible (same day usually) because the bullets run through my star easier. Since I'm usually only sizing down about .001 I believe the hardness from water dropping still remains for engaging the rifleing which is deeper than .001. There is a very noticeable difference in sizing effort after a couple days.

[felix]

That is correct, Matt. Best to size water dropped BR destined boolits AFTER they are HARD without lube and without gascheck. Then, use oven to re-heat-treat. Wait until time to shoot, and then apply gascheck and lube to only those needed. Boolits that are at least a year old shoot the best, sometimes significantly better which depends on whether you load at the range per ambient or not. ... felix

[opentop]

Lube em, size em, store em, don't worry about it.

[Matt_G]

When I water quench I size as soon as possible (same day usually) because the bullets run through my star easier. Since I'm usually only sizing down about .001 I believe the hardness from water dropping still remains for engaging the rifleing which is deeper than .001. There is a very noticeable difference in sizing effort after a couple days.
The reason I brought this up is because I just finished re-reading an article by Dennis Marshall in Cast Bullets published by the NRA.
"Stronger bullets with less alloying" is the name of the article.

In that he states and I quote,
"...sizing deforms bullets in two ways: (1) the surfaces of the driving bands are smeared due to die wall friction, and (2) the reduction in diameter broadens the driving bands and causes the bullet to elongate."

He goes on to state (and I'll paraphrase here) that the second form of deformation is associated with the reduction in diameter. This manifests itself in two ways.
Firstly, the driving bands broaden toward the nose BUT also the whole bullet does elongate proportional to the amount it is sized. The lead doesn't compress so it has to go somewhere. Even sizing just .001 inch results in a longer bullet than you had before sizing.

According to Marshall, the metal flow is accomplished in two ways depending on the hardness of the bullet when sized.
"Relatively soft bullets absorb the deformation more or less uniformly in the region of the driving bands, causing the grains to recrystallize over a period of time." (Remember that the recrystallization temp of lead is -74 F)

"In hard bullets quite a different mechanism persists...the grains of hard bullets resist deformation and slide across one another leaving a layer of highly worked metal in the boundary which recrystallizes shortly thereafter. The result is a bullet made up of hard grains bound together by soft lead and is a little better than if it had not been heat treated at all."

Maybe this should be moved to a new thread cause we are getting into a serious :hijack: here. :lol:

[Bret4207]

Well, I don't have the means to section a boolit without altering the hardness, but from what I've seen sizing quenched boolits doesn't affect the end hardness much. Mind you I', mot sizing down .005, in fact I shoot a lot of my boolits as cast diameter and lube with an oversized die. Many other are only .001-.002 reduction in sizing.

From what I've seen the sizing, if done within a day or so of casting still results in a much harder end product than what you would have had before. You could do a side by side comparison with a sized and unsized boolit and give it 2-3 weeks to see what the result is.

[NSP64]

I have been sizing usually the same day I cast them. I WdWW then size/gc with push through die then let them sit. I lube with LLA so I lube them as needed. I don't have alot sittin around.

[Tyro]

As an experiment with water quenching, I once lubrisized some fresly cast bullets. Then from the same casting session I waited a month to try bullets from the same session in the lubrisizer. The difference in pressure required to push the bullets through was dramatic. I was only sizing down one thousandth. The accuracy of the water quenched bullets seemed as good as oven treated, but I was using iron sights. Maybe scope fans can tell the difference in accuracy.

[fecmech]

If you can't get to your sizing the same day as casting put the boolits in the freezer and you can size them a few days later easily. The cold temp seems to slow the hardening process.