Mag-spark

[Toolmaker TN]

Tested my CVA 12ga double today with MAG-SPARK adapters, using shotgun primers. I was looking for some way to deal with my supply of #11 caps running extremely low. There don't seem to be any to be found, either. Dumb on my part for not stocking up, but it is what it is. I was looking at a muzzleloading forum on another site for something completely unrelated and saw a reference to the primer adapters. I figured why not give it a try and see what happens. I'm well stocked with shotgun primers, including some I'll never be able to use.

Adapters fit the gun perfectly, which was a good start. I popped a couple caps in each barrel at some dry leaves on the ground to see the reaction. Seemed to be way more blast than a #11 cap, which I had kinda expected.

Long story short, the MAG-SPARKS worked perfectly. Gun patterned well, seemed to produce a more complete burn (not as much fouling, more shots without needing to clean, etc.). I'm going to be doing more shooting, as I have a few more load combos to try, but the alternative ignition source is working better than I had hoped.

Are there some downsides? Yes, of course. To load a primer, unscrew the cap/firing pin, load a primer, screw the cap back on. After firing, unscrew the cap and remove the spent primer. IMO, this would be a serious PITA if you were shooting a round of skeet or trap. But for my use, casual clay shooting and hunting small game, upland birds, and waterfowl, it's not really an issue.

Upsides? Watertight, secure, reliable ignition every time. Plus, I can use an abundance of primers I already have, including a large quantity of old obsolete shotgun primers (Rem No. 57 and No. 69).

Bottom line? I ordered 2 more for my double rifle, another for my T/C Renegade, and a set for my ROA.

If you are experiencing a shortage of #11 or musket caps, this might be an option worth considering.

I don't have any stake in the company or their products, just passing on my results.

[Edward]

What he said I've known for years (Warren Outdoors) is where I buy (NICE GUY) and fast shipping/Ed

[oldracer]

I have been using the adapters in several rifles and picked up some hints.
- I wet the primer between my lips so it will come out easy.
- I found a drill bit the size of the primer so I can scrape the inside after pulling a primer. I cut the bit off so there was clearance for it to fit under the hammer.
- I filed flats on the larger threaded area so I can use an open end wrench to tighten the adapter.
- I always wrap a tad bit of teflon tape so the adapter can be removed easily of the smaller diameter threads.
- I make sure to NEVER dry fire with the cap on but no primer.
- If the striking surface of the hammer is recessed to allow it to grip the percussion cap I found that filing that surface flat makes the Mag Spark fire much better.

If folks complain about these being used tell them they were first used in the 1880s or so according the Ned Roberts book.
John

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello guys,

I also purchased a couple of Mag Spark systems, 1 for my old
Thompson Center Hawken, and 1 for my Lyman Great Plains Hunter.
Plug & Play with the Thompson Center, not so with the Lyman.
There was not enough clearance for half cock, the hammer sat on the firing pin.
My fix was to order a replacement hammer and cut it short.
I milled the pocket .200" deeper and took .150" off the end.
I also noticed that some primers were very tight in the system.
My fix for this was to build a little sizing die and run all my primers through it.
I have not range tested the system as I still have good supply of #11 caps,
but I just wanted a back-up method if caps became hard to find (like they are now).
I would also suggest purchasing an extra Cap & Firing Pin for the loading pouch.

AntiqueSledMan.

[winelover]

Been using the Accu-shot nipple, that takes a SPP for my traditional muzzleloaders for over twenty five years. Yep, they're slower to load but the advantage is positive ignition and almost impossible to lose when hunting. You only get one shot at big game anyways. The Accura-shot has flats already on the nipple for installation with a wrench. First shot, primer comes out pretty easy. When they get harder to release, I just use a pocket knife to nudge it out. Only caps I keep in stock are for my ROA.

Winelover

[fastdadio]

Yup, I've been using them for a long time. I only use them for hunting though. As stated above in the pros and cons comment, I find them too much to fiddle with when target shooting at the range. I still prefer musket caps for target, load development, and casual shooting. I found no real difference in accuracy or shot placement when switching between musket caps and mag sparks/accura shot nipples.

[mooman76]

I been thinking of getting one for hunting. Out west where it was dry, I always got good ignition right of but since moving here where it is more humid, I seem to have trouble getting the first load to ignite. After I get the first one to ignite, I generally shoot trouble free.

[Electrod47]

Glad to hear all the positive comments and helpful hints about the use of the mag-spark cause I had just bought one for all the same reasons. All the questions I was wondering have been answered by this thread.

[fastdadio]

I seem to have trouble getting the first load to ignite. After I get the first one to ignite, I generally shoot trouble free.
Try popping a few caps before loading up for hunting. It helps to burn out any residual oils that may be present after your last cleaning for lay up. My routine for loading before hunting is to clean my bore and nipple drum with denatured alcohol to remove any oils. Then I jag a patched rod and run it down tight, then I bust about 5 caps on it. Musket caps and 209's will actually begin to push the patched rod back out. Pull it back out and look at it. When the patch is burnt black and maybe have a small hole burned in it, yer good to go. Load it up and hunt. I've been doing this for over 30 years and my front stuffers always ignite instantly, even after a long season of wet/humid weather.

[Nueces]

I think the Mag Spark is a great system for rifles and shotguns. It provides a fairly weather proof ignition for hunting and one that eliminates the possibility of your cap falling off during a stalk.

I bought a set for the Ruger Old Army, but the instructions advised a rather severe limit on powder charge that I was unwilling to accept, so I sent it back.

[Toolmaker TN]

I been thinking of getting one for hunting. Out west where it was dry, I always got good ignition right of but since moving here where it is more humid, I seem to have trouble getting the first load to ignite. After I get the first one to ignite, I generally shoot trouble free.

It should definitely help with ignition under damp conditions. The weather when I tested yesterday was temps in the lower 40's and rain. I was on a covered range so gun didn't get wet, but I could tell the humidity was getting the powder damp (sticking to the spout on the powder can). Two weeks ago, I was working with my CVA double rifle (identical to the shotgun) under similar conditions, and I had one barrel fail to go off on multiple occasions. Cap didn't fire, or cap did go off but didn't ignite powder. CCI and Rem caps both had issues. Wasn't the same barrel either, very random. Yesterday the gun fired every time, no hesitation.

[Toolmaker TN]

Hello guys,

I also purchased a couple of Mag Spark systems, 1 for my old
Thompson Center Hawken, and 1 for my Lyman Great Plains Hunter.
Plug & Play with the Thompson Center, not so with the Lyman.
There was not enough clearance for half cock, the hammer sat on the firing pin.
My fix was to order a replacement hammer and cut it short.
I milled the pocket .200" deeper and took .150" off the end.
I also noticed that some primers were very tight in the system.
My fix for this was to build a little sizing die and run all my primers through it.
I have not range tested the system as I still have good supply of #11 caps,
but I just wanted a back-up method if caps became hard to find (like they are now).
I would also suggest purchasing an extra Cap & Firing Pin for the loading pouch.

AntiqueSledMan.

I found the same thing. I tested Win 209 (which the manufacturer states can get tight after a few shots), and CCI 209M. Both got tight after around 3 shots. I used a cotton swab dampened with Windex w/vinegar (excellent black powder cleaner) to wipe out the adapters, followed by a dry swab. Went right back to shooting.
The part I found that was great was being able to use obsolete shotgun primers in this system. I have several thousand Rem No. 57 and No. 69 primers, which can't be used in modern hulls. The diameter is too small for the primer pocket in currently produced hulls. they fit the adapters, and just drop out when I turn the gun over after removing the caps no matter how many shots were fired. I would think that if anyone could find these (maybe in old gun shops) they should be able to get them for cheap, since they're pretty much unusable unless someone has 50 year old hulls that they're still loading.
Good tip on purchasing an extra cap assembly. I didn't have any trouble with dropping one, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. With my luck it would happen in the leaves of in the water. That would bring things to a halt real quick.

[Toolmaker TN]

I have been using the adapters in several rifles and picked up some hints.
- I wet the primer between my lips so it will come out easy.
- I found a drill bit the size of the primer so I can scrape the inside after pulling a primer. I cut the bit off so there was clearance for it to fit under the hammer.
- I filed flats on the larger threaded area so I can use an open end wrench to tighten the adapter.
- I always wrap a tad bit of teflon tape so the adapter can be removed easily of the smaller diameter threads.
- I make sure to NEVER dry fire with the cap on but no primer.

If folks complain about these being used tell them they were first used in the 1880s or so according the Ned Roberts book.
John

Good tips.
I lube the threads on all percussion nipples and did the same with these. I had no issue removing the adapters using the supplied hex wrench but wrench flats might help. Hadn't thought of teflon tape. I will have to give that a try. Wouldn't have to worry about any contamination from lube that way.
Yes, indeed. Anyone who claims these are "non-traditional" or "the old-timers didn't do it that way" might want to get a copy of Ned Roberts' book. Not sure if it's still in print or not.
Looking at the design of these adapters, I agree that dry firing without a primer inserted would probably not end well.

[mooman76]

Try popping a few caps before loading up for hunting. It helps to burn out any residual oils that may be present after your last cleaning for lay up. My routine for loading before hunting is to clean my bore and nipple drum with denatured alcohol to remove any oils. Then I jag a patched rod and run it down tight, then I bust about 5 caps on it. Musket caps and 209's will actually begin to push the patched rod back out. Pull it back out and look at it. When the patch is burnt black and maybe have a small hole burned in it, yer good to go. Load it up and hunt. I've been doing this for over 30 years and my front stuffers always ignite instantly, even after a long season of wet/humid weather.

I always have popped a few before loading. I even switched to real BP instead of Pyro. I used to oil lightly out west and even could get by with a coat of WD40. I think it has more to do with my cleaning methods and using a heavier oil here to keep my guns from rusting. I even tried a alcohol swab before loading which I have never done in the past. I have recently switched to Barricade after cleaning and sense it dries, I am hoping that will fix the problem.

On the Mag Spark priming system, I see they make one for 209s and one that used center fire primers. Which would work best over all.

[retrieverman]

I bought my first traditional muzzleloader last year, and since I have A BUNCH of 209’s and no #11 caps, I ordered a Mag Spark. It’s worked great.

[Gofaaast]

I need to shoot the smoke poles I bought a year or two back that came with one and few spares. I finally found a couple pounds of Goex to buy. I need to cast some maxi balls to try in the fast twist barrel that came with the Lyman. I have couple sleeves of old 209’s that were not stored properly. The mag spark would be a good place to utilize these when just having fun and no worries if they don’t ignite. I could use them in my Knight but it just gets maxi or sabot use.

[fastdadio]

On the Mag Spark priming system, I see they make one for 209s and one that used center fire primers. Which would work best over all.
I like the mag spark better, simply because the primers are larger and easier to handle. Especially when your fingers are frozen. The 209 primers also have a rim, where the small rifle primers drop in flush with the top of the cup. This becomes a problem when they get stuck and you have to pry them out with a thin knife blade. When the 209 gets stuck, they're much easier to pry out, usually a finger nail will do. From an ignition stand point, I can't see any difference, but i suspect the advantage goes to the 209 for hotter flame and longer burn time.

[winelover]

I don't load shotgun, so I don't keep 209's around. Plenty of SPP, probably my most used primer. For me the choice is a no brainer, between primer choices.

Winelover

[Nueces]

From another point of view...I don't load shotgun either and had no 209s. I also have plenty of standard primers. When looking at the MagSpark, I thought the 209 version to be much the better, due largely to ease of handling in the field. During this past year, primer supplies have been quite thin. The nearby component shop did have flats of Cheddite 209s at standard retail prices (but no regular primers or percussion caps), so I bought some, just for use in muzzleloaders. I think of them as replacements for caps.

[mooman76]

I like the mag spark better, simply because the primers are larger and easier to handle. Especially when your fingers are frozen. The 209 primers also have a rim, where the small rifle primers drop in flush with the top of the cup. This becomes a problem when they get stuck and you have to pry them out with a thin knife blade. When the 209 gets stuck, they're much easier to pry out, usually a finger nail will do. From an ignition stand point, I can't see any difference, but i suspect the advantage goes to the 209 for hotter flame and longer burn time.

Thanks, that is what I suspected. What about Musket caps? Many people like those just for the same reason.

[Edward]

I like the mag spark better, simply because the primers are larger and easier to handle. Especially when your fingers are frozen. The 209 primers also have a rim, where the small rifle primers drop in flush with the top of the cup. This becomes a problem when they get stuck and you have to pry them out with a thin knife blade. When the 209 gets stuck, they're much easier to pry out, usually a finger nail will do. From an ignition stand point, I can't see any difference, but i suspect the advantage goes to the 209 for hotter flame and longer burn time.

The thing not mentioned (except by me) is like a patched ball stick the patch (your 209) in your mouth and then occasionally spit in the Magspark cap . You will shoot all day and never get stuck again!! /Ed

[tigweldit]

I have only one year of experience with Mag Spark in a TC Hawken. Like a lot so far. Just learned some good tips from this post.

[fastdadio]

Thanks, that is what I suspected. What about Musket caps? Many people like those just for the same reason.

I like musket caps and still use them for casual target shooting. They're just easier to deal with when volume shooting. I only use the mag spark for hunting.

[Toolmaker TN]

I like the mag spark better, simply because the primers are larger and easier to handle. Especially when your fingers are frozen. The 209 primers also have a rim, where the small rifle primers drop in flush with the top of the cup. This becomes a problem when they get stuck and you have to pry them out with a thin knife blade. When the 209 gets stuck, they're much easier to pry out, usually a finger nail will do. From an ignition stand point, I can't see any difference, but i suspect the advantage goes to the 209 for hotter flame and longer burn time.

I agree, the centerfire primers would be a pain to get out if they stuck. The few 209 primers I had stick, I just used a fingernail and they came right out.
I'm looking at one of the 209 cappers for field use, should make handling primers out in the field much easier.

https://www.tdcmfg.com/product-page/straightline-209-primer-capper

This is the Ted Cash version. I have also seen one from Traditions.

[oldracer]

As I posted earlier you can wet the primer before putting it in the adapter and also if target shooting you can wipe the soot out of the adapter to help.
John

[RickinTN]

I'm finding this interesting. Has anyone tried this system in a T/C Renegade? Did you have enough hammer travel?
Thanks,
Rick

[OverMax]

Have used mag sparks for many years. 2-54 (side lock) equipped T/c's and my Big Bore 58. Although I found such 209 nipple creates a little too much ignition for my 45 Hawken. So the 45 has again been retrofitted with its #11 Red Hot nipple.
What about Musket caps? RWS are the musket caps to use. If you can find em. Today's CCI musket caps on the other hand are (in my opinion) reduced in ignition compared to what CCI sold some years back.

[fastdadio]

Have used mag sparks for many years. 2-54 (side lock) equipped T/c's and my Big Bore 58. Although I found such 209 nipple creates a little too much ignition for my 45 Hawken. So the 45 has again been retrofitted with its #11 Red Hot nipple.
What about Musket caps? RWS are the musket caps to use. If you can find em. Today's CCI musket caps on the other hand are (in my opinion) reduced in ignition compared to what CCI sold some years back.

The weak CCI musket caps are labeled "for reenactment use" on the tin. Made for shooting blanks. Their regular caps are normal strength.

[winelover]

I'm finding this interesting. Has anyone tried this system in a T/C Renegade? Did you have enough hammer travel?
Thanks,
Rick

I'm using the Accu-shot on a LH Renegade. I purchased an extra hammer and reworked the face of it. Basically, taking off the recessed portion. No experience with the Mag- Spark. They weren't made back then.

Winelover

[cas]

I bought a Mag-spark a couple years ago for hunting in weather like yesterday, rain and melting snow dripping from the trees all day. I like to "mute" the spark with a tiny bit of painters tape over the bottom of the primer. I honestly never did any testing to see if it helped or hurt but... I know muting the flash of rifle primers in my BPCR loads certainly did, so why not do it with the ML as well.


Never did with the Accu-shots and pistol primers, but I was using hateful Pyrodex back then in guns that needed all the help they could get to go off.

[GrayTech]

The part I found that was great was being able to use obsolete shotgun primers in this system. I have several thousand Rem No. 57 and No. 69 primers, which can't be used in modern hulls. The diameter is too small for the primer pocket in currently produced hulls. they fit the adapters, and just drop out when I turn the gun over after removing the caps no matter how many shots were fired. I would think that if anyone could find these (maybe in old gun shops) they should be able to get them for cheap, since they're pretty much unusable unless someone has 50 year old hulls that they're still loading.
.

Makes me think opening up the pocket in the adapter by a thou or two would make newer primers drop out with the same ease.

[Edward]

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT , altering will get you hurt ,like I said it's easy spit in the cap (occasionally)and stick the 209 in your mouth while loading (SIMPLE and works ) Jeeze /Ed