Anyone loading 38 Special and Red Dot?

[saz]

I bought my son a 4" fixed sight .38 for christmas, and the deal will be he has to learn to cast/handload to feed it. I have about 9 lbs of Red Dot, and I love it in my 9mm and 45acp, but never used it in a 38. Anyone messed with it?

[Thumbcocker]

Should do just fine.

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[toallmy]

Red dot Works fine in 38s

[Ed_Shot]

Alliant Red Dot works great in 38 Spl. Take a look at Lyman 3rd Ed. CB Handbook. There's a lot of info to be had here and on line.

[Beagle333]

Yes, I have used it in .38s. Only book loads, but it worked great.

[WickedWillie]

I have used Red Dot in .38 specials. Basically book loads only. With a 158 gr. LSWC, I've used 3.5 grains with satisfaction. Pretty much equals factory velocity and pressure.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I have loaded a lot of 38 special with red dot , promo and will use IMR red also , it is good powder for the 38 and works well in other pistol loads , even use it in 45 colt .

[onceabull]

Extremely useful in a wide range of pistol and rifle cast boolit apps....Had a neat roundball load to take forest chicken with my 375 H&H...onceabull

[dverna]

RD will work well. BTW, RD (Promo) is my SHTF powder. Works in 12 ga, all pistols I own and cast in rifle. I keep 4 jugs on hand at all times.

[scattershot]

I use Red Dot in a number of calibers, including the .38 Special, and it works well in all of them.

[grayscale]

First metallic round I loaded was .38 spc with reddot, Still do.

[racepres]

It would be difficult to come up with a Caliber that I do Not use Red Dot in it... not always Cast either..

[MOA]

These I loaded up with 3 grains of RD for my little derringer. Hornady 158 grain swaged round nose. I like them just fine.

https://i.postimg.cc/gjghjjRy/Photo0421.jpg (https://postimg.cc/jnJ2ksMC)

https://i.postimg.cc/gk0R5yFg/Photo0427.jpg (https://postimg.cc/YjJhLWSF)

https://i.postimg.cc/FHdSF9Kc/Photo0422.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4YGyBRVN)

https://i.postimg.cc/26Fhp2SK/Photo0420.jpg (https://postimg.cc/cgCrw7YR)

https://i.postimg.cc/VLHMcSzm/Photo0423.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ppzyfL96)

[Baltimoreed]

Thinking Red Dot will work in just about any pistol cartridge that shoots lead bullets and of course shotguns.

[Texas by God]

I am fairly certain that I will give my next bottle of Red Dot an affectionate hug. I've missed it!

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[Silvercreek Farmer]

I've burned several pounds of it in 38 special. What revolver did you get him? Is it +p rated? For continuous use? I ask because Red Dot really cleans up nicely at top end +p loads. Not that cleaning a revolver is all that hard.

[Thumbcocker]

4 grains and a 125rnfp shoots to sights for me in model 10's.

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[uscra112]

Red Dot will give you considerably higher peak pressure per unit of muzzle velocity than the canonical Bullseye loads, but as long as you don't try for every last foot-per-second it will do very well. Especially for lighter bullets and shorter barrels. Seating depth will be more critical.

[Eddie Southgate]

I loaded a ton of .38 Special with Red Dot in the early 70's but haven't done it lately .

[rintinglen]

I burned up 32 pounds of Red dot in 38 special loads, 2.8 grains at a time with 148 WC's. I also shot a fair few 358-432's over 4.0 grains for a plus p load. you could do a lot worse,

[358429]

I shot a bunch of 148 grain flush wadcutters with two grains of red dot and

a bunch of 158 grain bevel base semiwadcutters with 3.5 grains of red dot,

nice and mild, shot to the sights in my snubby inside 20-30 yards.

[358429]

I burned up 32 pounds of Red dot in 38 special loads, 2.8 grains at a time with 148 WC's. I also shot a fair few 358-432's over 4.0 grains for a plus p load. you could do a lot worse,Wow I bet the mass of all those spent primers would sag the springs on a car if you filled the trunk.

Would they all fit in the trunk??[emoji39]

[dverna]

Wow I bet the mass of all those spent primers would sag the springs on a car if you filled the trunk.

Would they all fit in the trunk??[emoji39]

Nope...80k primers. Maybe 80 lbs.

[P Flados]

The first thing I would recommend is to get some cast bullets, both light (120 - 130) and traditional (150 - 160).

If you do not have molds yet, trying out a commercial product first is worth considering. If you buy, I recommend a coated bullet.

Load a ladder of each. Start around 0.6 gr below book max. Alliant 2004 data has book max for Red Dot and a 125 gr at 3.9 gr. It has book max for 158 gr is 3.1 gr. Other sources may go a little higher, but I would only do so in a +P or otherwise heavy duty gun. With a 38 Sp, you can be way over the SAAMI rating with no "pressure signs".

Because the gun does not have adjustable sights, finding a load or two that shoot close to point of aim is important.

The above should matter to him more than getting an extra 50 fps with a more optimum powder. A 4" gun with Red Dot should do better than a 2" snub with Bullseye or Unique.

Once a cast bullet load that works is found, it can be duplicated with something similar in a jacket bullet if desired.

I load a lot of handgun ammo. More loads are with Promo (bulk version of Red Dot) than anything else. A lot of these are a tumble lubed 120 gr cast in 357 cases at 38 Sp power level and are fired in a 4" gun.

[tazman]

This is good advice^^^^^^^^^^

[Kosh75287]

I know(knew) Bullseye shooters who use(d) 3.0/Red Dot/148 gr. HBWC through their pistols by the BATHTUB-ful, so it has the potential for superb accuracy is certainly there.
3.5/RedDot/158 gr. LSWC gives standard pressures, and 750 - 800 f/s from a 4" Police Service Six. 3.8/Red Dot/158 gr. was their +P load, and gave something like 785 - 830 f.s. All loads were fr forar more accurate than needed. They shot well enough that for a while, I'D load NOTHING else for .380 or .38 Special. I think Unique or Power Pistol are better for "VERY +P" .38 Special loads, but Red Dot can be "carefully worked up" to 1000 f/s in a modern S&W J-frame.

[GhostHawk]

I don't shoot many .38spcl, but the rounds I have loaded are all Red Dot 3.5 gr and the Lee 158 gr round nose cast boolit.

Works good in my RIA snub nose that lives by my bedside table.

[Gus Youmans]

3.9 grains of Red Dot with a 125 cast bullet is extremely accurate in all my .38s but will not shoot to the sights in my fixed sight revolvers. 3.5 grains of Red Dot with a 158 cast bullet is not quite as accurate but shoots to the sights of my fixed sight revolvers.

Even though Red Dot does not meter well in most of my powder measures, occasionally as much as plus or minus .3 grains variation, you will not be able to see the difference on paper. I do not use it for loads approaching +P for that reason.

Gus Youmans

[Low Budget Shooter]

3.6 grains Red Dot with 150-ish grain bullet has been excellent for me.

[bedbugbilly]

Red Dot is always on my shelf of powders - works great in so many different applications.

Since you asked specifically about 38 Special - I use it in 38 Colt Short, 38 Colt Long, 38 Special and 357. In 38 Special, I've used it with a variety of 120 ish grain lead boolits and 158 grain boolits. Should be published loading data out there - like anything else - work your load up to the revolver's sweet spot and keep within published data.

[Markopolo]

Good luck finding it these days...

[MT Gianni]

I went through an older Lyman handbook once. Red dot is the most listed powder by cartridge in both rifle and pistol.

[6.5 mike]

3 grs of red dot & 125 gr lee= good all around load plinking & cow boy.

[gwpercle]

During the 2012 shortage I was looking for handgun powder (Bullseye & Unique ) and there was nothing on the shelf but 3 - 1 lb canisters of Red Dot ... having recently read the NRA published article... " The Load or: What You Can Do With 13 grains of Red Dot " I bought all three .
I had a 1903A3 Springfield , a 303 British No4 MK I Lee-Enfield and 7.5 Swiss K11 Schmidt-Ruben that I had never shot with boolits and decided to give it a go ...The article by C. E. Harris + the 3 pounds of Red Dot got me interested in shooting them .
Also discovered Red Dot is an excellent stand in for Bullseye ... Lots of proved Red Dot data in the books too . Red Dot has become a favorite !
Gary

[toallmy]

If red dot is not available unique , green dot , or herco even promo will cover many of your needs , the only shortcoming is measuring , I suppose that's why everyone loves bullseye .

[bangerjim]

I have over 15 powders including RD and I have used them all in 38's. RD works just fine. Just follow the in-kind loading data published.

[Schreck5]

I have tried most of the popular 158gr 38 Spl powders. I keep going back to Red Dotfor it, as well as for reduced loads in many other rifle/pistol loads.

[Texas by God]

A good friend gave me a new pound of Red Dot today and I gave him some .25auto and .32auto factory fmj ammo- and a hug. And I hugged the bottle of Red Dot as well.
I told you that I would[emoji16]

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[Divil]

I second the 3.0 grains of Red Dot with a 148gr. Wadcutter.

[waco]

I burned up 32 pounds of Red dot in 38 special loads, 2.8 grains at a time with 148 WC's. I also shot a fair few 358-432's over 4.0 grains for a plus p load. you could do a lot worse,

80,000 rounds! That's a lot of shooting!

[waco]

Good luck finding it these days...

Glad I still have around 13 pounds.

[ddixie884]

Has anyone ever loaded Jeff cooper's .38spl, 5gr RD load with a 160grswc? Chrono info? Quick Load?

[racepres]

Has anyone ever loaded Jeff cooper's 5gr RD load with a 160grswc? Chrono info? Quick Load?

Just a little while ago in fact..
Plain based ... 162gr SWC, 5.0gr R.D. gave 952fps from my 4" 357, "Pork Chop"
what little lead it left brushed out in one swipe.. I called it a success....tho Not up to the Unique nor 2400 Velocity.. about 75fps behind in fact... but...cleaner
My notes say that I should use a Checked Boolit for those faster loads in fact...
After all that... I usually stay with 158CSWC plain based, and 3.5gr R.D. ... it just works...
I use the 162's seated out and loaded to 38-40 for the one S.A., .357...

[ddixie884]

Thanx..........

[Geezer in NH]

Red Dot has been my powder for 38 spec. Since my first S&W Combat Masterpiece i bought used in 1973. I have red dot for my shotguns and never changed powder. Trap and upland hunting it has been all I needed.

[Texas by God]

3.5 grs of Red Dot and 158gr swaged hp hits right where I want at thirty feet.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220113/c11497c14b84554a4885b222cd10a7a2.jpg

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[35 Rem]

Another fan of Red Dot here. My 1st reloading started in 1976 when my Father got me a MEC 500 JR i 12 gauge and the gun shop recommended Red Dot. Once I started loading metallic cartridges I found out how versatile Red Dot was especially with handgun loads. I presently have about 30 lbs of it. I use it in 38 Special, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt mostly nowdays.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't meter very will in a powder dropper. I use an RCBS Little Dandy for all my handgun powder dispensing and hold the dropper in my hand while working across the rows of cases in a loading block. Once I've filled them all I give them all a couple of inspections with a flash light to see the powder level. Out of 50 cases there will inevitably be 2 or 3 that have obvious lower charges. I dump them back into the hopper and recharge those cases.

[Mavrick]

I load my Colt Cobra with either 148 WC or 158SWC with 2.3-3.0 gr of Red Dot.
My .45 M1911 with 230gr RN, .45 Colt 3 1/2" SAA with 255gr SWC, and .44 Special 240gr SWC in a Ruger 4 5/8" Flattop are all used mostly with RD.
Many a charge of massed tin cans have been diverted with these loads!
have fun,
Gene

[jonp]

About 2.6grs under a Lee 358-148-wc in my Target Masterpiece is a tackdriver load. Glad I bought 4 Kegs of Promo at $100 each when it was easy to come by.

[racepres]

The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't meter very will in a powder dropper. .

@35 Rem
I also started in the mid '70's.. No Shotguns tho... I have had extremely good luck with the inexpensive Lee powder measure and flake powders..
Have tried a Lil Dandy... have a Redding, and one of those Hornady's that can use two different measuring "chambers".. always return to the old Lee when using flake powder... Note... Mine is certainly broken in...makes a difference!!

[Martin Luber]

Good bulk case fill with it, so yes. 45 lead swc too.

[jaysouth]

Another fan of Red Dot here. My 1st reloading started in 1976 when my Father got me a MEC 500 JR i 12 gauge and the gun shop recommended Red Dot. Once I started loading metallic cartridges I found out how versatile Red Dot was especially with handgun loads. I presently have about 30 lbs of it. I use it in 38 Special, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt mostly nowdays.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't meter very will in a powder dropper. I use an RCBS Little Dandy for all my handgun powder dispensing and hold the dropper in my hand while working across the rows of cases in a loading block. Once I've filled them all I give them all a couple of inspections with a flash light to see the powder level. Out of 50 cases there will inevitably be 2 or 3 that have obvious lower charges. I dump them back into the hopper and recharge those cases.

What rotors do you use for red dot in the Little Dandy?

[Larry Gibson]

38 SPL with Red Dot/158 Cast SWC Pressure Tests

Ddixie884 requested I pressure test the mentioned Jeff Cooper load of 5 gr Red Dot under a 158 SWC cast bullet in the 38 SPL cartridge. I said I would and looking at various load data sources we find no mention of a 5.0 gr load. Older Hercules data lists 4.2 gr as being a max load. Current Lyman CBHs don't list red Dot powder for use with that bullet. However, many others, myself included, have loaded 3.5 gr Red Dot under a 150-158 gr SWC for many years without any apparent pressure problems. Thus, I decided to test increments of 3.5 gr, 4.0 gr, 4.5 gr and 5.0 gr under the commercial hard cast 158 gr SWCs ddixie884 had provided. Pressure/velocity testing would be done with a 7.9” Contender barrel which was attached, via strain gauge, to an Oehler M43 PBL. I would also, pressure permitting, chronograph the 5.0 gr load in a 2 1/2” barreled M19 S&W 357 Magnum revolver.

Test load specifics for all increments of Red Dot;

Bullet; Commercial cast
Bullet Wgt; 158 gr
Bullet Style; SWC BB
Powder; Alliant Red Dot
Powder Wgt; 3.5 – 5.0 gr
Primer; Remington 1 ½
Case; Speer 38 SPL
OAL; 1.500”
Seating depth; .340”

Pressure is in “PSI” and velocity is in fps corrected to the muzzle.

Data listed as;

Charge of Red Dot
Velocity/SD/ES.......psi/SD/ES
Comments

Red Dot; 3.5 gr
919/18/51......17,100/900/3,300
This load is right at the SAAMI MAP for the 38 SPL. I have shot a lot of this load in years past. While it seems, an excellent load note how the SD's and ES's of both velocity and pressure get consistently lower. That indicates Red Dot is not igniting and burning as efficiently at lower pressures as it does at higher pressures. Probably not enough for concern for shorter range shooting as with a “snubbie” but for use in longer barrels at longer ranges the difference would come into play.

Red Dot; 4.0 gr
993/12/44......20,500/100/3,400
This load is right at the SAAMI MAP for the 38 SPL +P cartridge.

Red Dot; 4.5 gr
1072/12/37......25,600/600/1,700
This load jumps right up into low end 357 Magnum pressure ranges. Note the very low pressure ES and SD's compared to the 3.5 gr load.

Red Dot; 5.0 gr
1144/10/28.......26,800/300/1,000
Excellent SD's and ES's of both velocity and pressure. However, the pressure running this high would negate my own use of it, especially in an older small “snubbie” chambered in 38 SPL. A small “snubbie chambered in 357 magnum is another story though and such a load would be quite safe.

The S&W M19 K frame 2 1/2” barreled revolver chambered for the 357 Magnum.

The 5.0 gr Red Dot load fired in the M19 S&W with 2 1/2” barrel also gave excellent internals as evidenced by the small velocity SD and ES of 10/27 fps. The muzzle velocity proved to be exactly 1,000 fps.

[ddixie884]

Larry, I was sure the 5gr load was way over +P but I knew you would be testing it in .357 Magnum firearms and I was just wondering how high the pressure was. Uncle Jeff didn't use it for plinking and in the early M-60 he was using the bolt cuts would have been offset. I don't have an urgent need for this level of performance but if I did I would load a box and shoot 5 for effect and carry them for serious social encounters. Thanx again for doing these tests.

[Thumbcocker]

I have had excellent results with the Lee 125 rnfp and 4.0 of red dot / promo. Shoots to sights for me in model 10s.

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[Buck Shot]

That's some great info, Larry. Many thanks for doing the testing and making the results available to us.

I bought a keg of RD back in the 90s when I was shooting skeet twice a week, and now use it for 38 Spl. Works great, and -- unlike BE -- its smell reminds me of shooting skeet with my Dad when I was a teenager!

[35 Rem]

I use 4 grains Red Dot with the Lee 125 grain round nose flat point. That would be the Little Dandy #10 rotor. It's a very pleasant load to shoot but still busts water jugs nicely. This works well in both a Uberti Stallion 38 Special as well as a Ruger SP101.

[umwminer]

3.7 gr Red Dot under a 358429 173 gr SWC for many years in all of my old 5 screw K frames . Very accurate and it seems to me mild load . I would never purposely abuse my old Smith & Wessons . I trust and respect Larry Gibson’s advice and load research . Maybe I should tame it down a bit ?

[Giggles]

red dot is wonderful, green is just as good. When i had the time to reload and actually shoot, the best loads were red dot and green dot for accuracy.. I lump them together because the differences were so small i could not tell them apart, even when labelled.

however that bullseye stuff, gah.

Some "authorities" may not like red or green dot for "high pressure for the velocity", but i enjoy the cleanliness when the charge makes enough chamber pressure to exapnd the hbwc..

[pworley1]

He should get about 18000 rounds out of that that will work great and be fun to shoot.

[Kosh75287]

Has anyone ever loaded Jeff cooper's .38spl, 5gr RD load with a 160grswc? Chrono info? Quick Load?
The late Col. Cooper's (R.I.P.) Red Dot load was meant to propel a 160 gr. LSWC at or slightly above 1000 f/s from a 2" barrel. I had to bump the charge up SLIGHTLY, to get there, but not by very much. From a 3" S&W M36, 5.0/Red Dot/160 SWC is a real performer (1063 f/s), though hard on the revolver. It is definitely a "carry often, shoot seldom" load, but it worked as advertised.
Red Dot is very much like Unique, in that it's more difficult to find a pistol caliber in which it DOES NOT work than one in which it does work. Red Dot is more economical, but doesn't quite give the higher-end velocities before pressures elevate.

[Alferd Packer]

Google the Lyman 3rd ed.Cast Bullet manual online.
Download for free in memory and get loads.
Then delete it from your computer or phone.