Barrel length

[BunkTheory]

Have you folks noticed a genuine reduction in the capability of your 38 or 357 when you switch from a 6 inch to a 4 inch model?

Im just focusing on the family of wadcutters and l58 grain and large bullets, no interested in the light weight stuff. have shot enough of that in my buddys gun and it doesnt interest me as other then being a 38 special load that wont go through the wall.

[Tokarev]

You can punch all that info into a ballistic calculator and see the difference in muzzle velocity and bullet drop.

[BunkTheory]

1. dont have muzzle velocity on any loads yet, would have to use paper specs from reloading data

2. im interested in the purpose of "hey, im finally trying to get my own revolver, have a source that claims to have two revolvers i can live with, a 586 and a gp100, that i can AFFORD, ie both are under 800% and they show 4 FFL within 50 miles of me they deal with.

3. Im looking at it as a 38/44 with the use of magnum cases to generate wadcutter loads, standard HBWC, DEWC loads in the 148 to 170 that i want to push to 1,000 fps. And a chance to play with 200 to 230 grain wadcutters for giggles.

4. Looking at is as a carry piece, as a sam browne or 1950s police gun belt isnt going to work in the summer time, id be considering shoulder rig.

[memtb]

This is just my opinion, for my personal uses. With handguns, I don’t greatly concern myself with velocity loses with shortened barrel lengths. I see the longer barrel providing a longer sight radius, which enhances my shooting at longer distances or small targets. If the target, as in a defense situation, is close....I don’t see the rather minimal velocity loss as a negative. In a defensive situation, the additional barrel length is potentially a greater issue than the velocity loss.

Again, this is just my opinion! memtb

[Outpost75]

A four-inch gun having a minimum cylinder gap of pass 0.003"/hold 0.004" will produce higher velocity with .357 ammunition than a 6-inch gun at Customer Service Maximum of 0.008" pass/0.009" hold. Be aware also that today S&W considers a BC gap as large as 0.010" on a new gun as being within spec, resulting in about 100 fps velocity loss compared to a gun built to Mean Assembly Tolerance of 0.005" pass/0.006" hold.

More important to take your feeler gages to the gun shop and learn how to use them properly, than to fixate upon the length of the phallus.

[BunkTheory]

A four-inch gun having a minimum cylinder gap of pass 0.003"/hold 0.004" will produce higher velocity with .357 ammunition than a 6-inch gun at Customer Service Maximum of 0.008" pass/0.009" hold. Be aware also that today S&W considers a BC gap as large as 0.010" on a new gun as being within spec, resulting in about 100 fps velocity loss compared to a gun built to Mean Assembly Tolerance of 0.005" pass/0.006" hold.

More important to take your feeler gages to the gun shop and learn how to use them properly, than to fixate upon the length of the phallus.

thats just a wrong post.

[BunkTheory]

I have no feeler gauges.

Gun stores dont let you do that here. They let you take it out of the box, work the action once or twice and compare the serial number matches the box and paper work.

The gun stores in my area wont remove the trigger locks when you want to look at a gun.

[cwtebay]

I think Outpost has very good information there. Not sure where you are, but I can't imagine any gun store that wouldn't allow you to use a feeler gauge on a prospective purchase. They are readily available and inexpensive and quite handy for the revolver owner that is interested in shooting for accuracy (assuming that you are with your wadcutter comment).
The sad thing is, as Outpost stated - the feeler gauge is almost necessary when purchasing a new revolver due to the lax acceptable specs that have become the norm.
I personally don't have the body frame to conceal a 6" barrel, so if that's among your interests it's definitely a factor.
Below are some photos of a handy program on:
Shootersnotes.com
Apologies for the artifacts on the photos.
I changed only the barrel length, looks like a difference of 119fps with that particular load.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211215/ddaefae5deb47c6de396217cee50112f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211215/654bf1c4ff9c845656e7023c894de654.jpg

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[shooting on a shoestring]

BunkTheory, let me explain.
1. Outpost75 has had an extensive career in the firearms industry.
2. You don’t own a chronograph or even a set of feeler gauges. You’re still cutting your teeth.
3. “ thats just a wrong post.” No. The proper response is “Thank you sir.”

BunkTheory, there’s a wealth of knowledge available here for the learning. Knowledge that can expand your abilities and shrink your groups. But…much of it is counter to your current views. That will change as you get more experience.

[Texas by God]

I assumed that Bunk was speaking of the phallic pun made by Outpost.......

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[ABJ]

BunkTheory, let me explain.
1. Outpost75 has had an extensive career in the firearms industry.
2. You don’t own a chronograph or even a set of feeler gauges. You’re still cutting your teeth.
3. “ thats just a wrong post.” No. The proper response is “Thank you sir.”

BunkTheory, there’s a wealth of knowledge available here for the learning. Knowledge that can expand your abilities and shrink your groups. But…much of it is counter to your current views. That will change as you get more experience.

I don't usually respond when I read things of this nature but "shoestring" said it better than I could.
Tony

[Outpost75]

I have no feeler gauges.

Gun stores dont let you do that here. They let you take it out of the box, work the action once or twice and compare the serial number matches the box and paper work.

The gun stores in my area wont remove the trigger locks when you want to look at a gun.

They would not get my business, then.

[gwpercle]

I have no feeler gauges.

Gun stores dont let you do that here. They let you take it out of the box, work the action once or twice and compare the serial number matches the box and paper work.

The gun stores in my area wont remove the trigger locks when you want to look at a gun.

The last revolver I bought , about one year ago , was at Cabela's ... they wouldn't remove the trigger lock of even let me pull the hammer back and ease it down ...lock stayed in place and that was all I could see ... after sale was completed , Locked gun went back in box and salesman escorted me to and out the door and told me not to stop and not to open the box and drive off the lot !
Weirdest gun transaction I ever went thru ... the guy acted like if given a chance I would load the little Ruger Wrangler and go on a shooting rampage or hold up the store ... I'm not buying from Cabela's again ...I had a bunch of gift cards and they had a Black Ruger Wrangler ...
If that's the way your gun shop treats you then I will tell you they sure don't want you looking too hard at the handguns and pulling out a feeler gauge might get you arrested ! I can fully understand what you are saying .
There are other local gun shops I usually deal with ...they let you look at the firearms ...but Cabela's treated me like a possible criminal ... I thought I was in the Twilight Zone .

Is it Me ...or is the World getting weird ?
Gary

[charlie b]

Sportsman's lets me examine the guns as much as I want. No trigger locks on anything. The Cabela's in El Paso did not have trigger locks last time I was there (two years ago). Customers were working actions on the pistols.

I think you may have some weird local rules.

[JimB..]

Cabellas here started refusing to remove the trigger locks a couple years ago. They also have an “all sales final” policy for used guns. Makes for a difficult purchasing process.

[cwtebay]

I don't understand how one would consider a firearm, especially a used one with no inspection allowed. Seems like buying a car after walking around it a couple of times.
Those store policies are ridiculous in my humble opinion.

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[stubshaft]

In answer to the OP question, YES, I have observed a difference in velocity between 4" and 6" barrels. It was not as pronounced as the loss between 4" and 2.5" barrels which is more dramatic. I am not discounting the fact that BC gap plays a factor in velocity but you can only burn so much powder in a given barrel length.

[black mamba]

Go to "Ballistics by the Inch" to see the effects of different barrel lengths on different calibers. Very revealing.

[Larry Gibson]

Many years ago, a friend had a Dan Wesson chambered in 357 magnum with 4, 6 and 8" barrels. He was very interested in testing the velocity difference. Since, at that time I had probably the only chronograph in a 3 county area, he and I did a velocity test between the 3 barrels. We tested a target load using Bullseye powder under a 358477 and a magnum load using 2400 under a 358156. I had the moulds and cast the bullets used. The barrels, when installed, had the barrel/cylinder gap set with the feeler gauge that came with the Dan Wesson revolver for such. I believe it was a .004 feeler gauge.

The velocities did, in fact, reduce with the shorter barrels. Not so much with the Bullseye load but markedly with the 2400 load. As I recall there was about a 250 - 300 fps difference between the 4" and the 8" barrel from just over 1200 fps to right at 1500 fps.

As Outpost75 mentions, there are many variables that affect velocity in revolvers. Not only barrel length but barrel/cylinder gap, chamber/throat variations. If comparing the velocity of a 4" revolver to a 6" revolver the testing should be done back to back with 10 or 12 shot test strings on the same day, under the same conditions with the same exact ammunition. Testing them on different days or even with the same ammunition/load but loaded at different times will most certainly give meaningless data for a comparison.

[Baltimoreed]

Never bought a firearm with the thought ‘gee I wonder how well this will perform ballistically’. But I'm not a bullseye target shooter or dangerous game hunter. I buy mine for the firearm’s esthetics, the maker’s logo, price and what I’m going to use it for. Though I have bought firearms just because.

[stubshaft]

Never bought a firearm with the thought ‘gee I wonder how well this will perform ballistically’. But I'm not a bullseye target shooter or dangerous game hunter. I buy mine for the firearm’s esthetics, the maker’s logo, price and what I’m going to use it for. Though I have bought firearms just because.

***** - I've bought firearms because someone gave me some empty brass in a caliber I DID'NT own!

[Rodfac]

Have you folks noticed a genuine reduction in the capability of your 38 or 357 when you switch from a 6 inch to a 4 inch model? In a word, NO.
Accuracy with the shorter vs. longer inter-sight distance = maybe 1/2" at 25 yds for me, and I'd need a sandbag rest to see that.
Weight = as it affects my carrying it afield or to town...no question, the 4" is far better.
Velocity = 50-70 fps at most, so it's a non-starter too for carry purposes.

Given my druthers, I'd always opt for the shorter barrel for 99% of my uses. As I don't hunt with a six gun, I have no use for a longer tube. YMMv Rod

[megasupermagnum]

The only revolver I have an apples to apples comparison of is a S&W model 57, which is a 41 magnum. I've owned both a 6" and 4" version. I saw a little more velocity loss, but that is because my 4" has a B/C gap of about .009". I saw about 125-150 fps less with the 4". With a comparable B/C gap of about .004", that would probably be less than 100 fps.

Is it enough to reduce the capability? Well I still own the 4", and the 6" went down the road. To me when it comes to barrel length it is more about balance, purpose, and down at the bottom of the list is velocity. In the case of the S&W model 57, I honestly can't say which barrel length is better. After using both, I lean towards the 4" handling better, and carrying better. 6" would be my choice for a purely hunting gun, and I feel I get a steadier hold off of a rest, or at least a longer sight radius. I do not like 8 3/8" Smiths.

Similarly I have both a 5" 327 federal, and a 3". Both have a .004" cylinder gap. One of my favorite target loads runs about 1225 fps in the 5", and about 1100 fps in the 3". If it was enough to matter, I could use another powder and get the 3" up to that level. In this case, while the 3" is great to carry, I far and away prefer shooting the 5".

I guess what I'm saying is if you are comparing small differences in barrel lengths, worry about how the gun feels, not the velocity.

[Tokarev]

The difference in velocity between 4" and 6" bbls will be in the ballpark of 150-170 fps which translates into 1/4 to 1/3 more energy. For self-defense, this is significant. Remember 1986.

[357Mag]

Bunk -

Howdy !

I love the "N" frame .357" cal guns.

Have owned / shot 6" M-28, 5" M-27, and 2 custom 4" heavy barreled sure butts. One was an M-58 w/ 4" barrel sleeved to accept .357" cal bullets; and fitted w/ an M-28 cylinder.

The second is my current carry gun: heavy straight barrelled ( Douglas ) M-520 ( surplus NYSP ).

IMHO -
The larger questions are whether the handgun fits you hand well ( or can be readily modified to do so ), and more to the point...... can you manage recoil well enough to shoot your chosen loads to your satisfaction.

I myself think a .38-40 " Outdoorsman " in great shape should be saved / savored. "N"s are a whole 'nuther
revolver compared to GP's, "K" and "L" frames. I like 'em cause the fit my hand better. I shoot Herrett's
" Jordan Trooper " stocks, and they are the single best thing I have done to improve accuracy.... short of practice, practice; practice.

" Ballistics won't matter if you can't hit your intended target " !

My custom HB 4" M-520 balances and handles recoil like a 5" -27.

For carry, I often were the gun in a Bianchi pistol pocket that was made for an M-19. I just stretched it out.
I wear it in the small of my back, under a loose-fitting shirt ( I am up to 7 Hawaiian style shirts now ).

I also carry it on the belt, strong side; in a custom holster made by Ken Null out of Resaka, GA.
I had Ken give me a fwd muzzle brake, and position the cylinder above the top of the belt line.
It is a thumb brake, open muzzle end, unlined; and has 2 slots in it to accept the belt.
I wear the rig under a leather vest along w/ long sleeved shirt for cooler weather.

I used to use a Bianchi #111 Crossdraw worn strong side, to get the fwd muzzle rake I prefered.
But Ken's holster in comparison, is just dog nuts !


With regards,
357Mag

[357Mag]

Correction to previous -


"..... 4" heavy barrelled square butts ...."


Regards,
357Mag

[Forrest r]

As others have stated the bbl gap and more importantly the bbl's themselves will have huge effects on velocity.

Buffalo bore has some interesting comments on how bbl's perform & more specifically how the new s&w bbl's perform.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102

What buffalo bore had to say:
"The below velocities are offered so that you can see what guns/barrel lengths give what velocities with this new 357 mag. ammo. You'll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels. The new S&W revolvers are very good and are made with equipment that makes them more consistent and faster than the S&W revolvers of yesteryear."

Buffalo bore tactical short bbl/low recoil & flash 357 ammo.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=275

What buffalo bore had to say with their low flash 357 ammo:
"The below velocities were obtained from my personal, real world, factory stock, over the counter, (NOT TEST BARRELS) 357 magnum, revolvers. Also, note that the 6 inch Python, is considerably slower than the 4 inch S&W. This has nothing to do with barrel length. It is most likely a combination of differences in chamber/throat dimensions, barrel -cylinder gap, barrel internals, and forcing cone dimensions in the Python, versus the S&W. If the Python and the S&W had the same dimensions in their chamber/throats, barrel cylinder gap and forcing cone, the longer barreled Python would give much faster speeds. We have found that all of our Python test revolvers are much slower than our late model S&W revolvers of equal or even shorter barrel length."

A couple years ago I made a pile of 357mag test loads using the same bullet (mp 640 series 158gr hp) and did head to head testing using full house loads of 2400 VS H110 VS MP-300. I used
1 2 1/2" bbl'd s&w 586
2 different 4" bbl's on a dan wesson 15-2 .004" bbl gap
2 different 6" bbl's on the same dw 15-2 .004" bbl gap
1 6" bll'd 686 s&w
1 8" bbl on the dw 15-2 .004" bbl gap
1 10" contender

At the end of the day the longer the bbl, the higher the velocities.

I found a long time ago when buying custom 1 in 10 twist bbl's for the dw 15-2 revolvers (I own 2 of them) that the bbl's that had their rifling cut using the emc method had consistently higher velocities then their traditionally cut counterparts. Both my s&w 357mag revolvers have the modern emc cut bbl's in them. And both have pretty impressive velocities cast bullets.

[Hickok]

I have shot deer with .357, .44 and .45 Colt handguns with barrels from 4 inches to 7 1/2 inches. Can't tell any difference in downing deer when it comes to barrel length. I prefer 4"-4 5/8" for my hunting,...easy the carry, easy to manage when drawing from holster. I only take shots at deer out to 50 yards or less, so a 4" handgun works for me.:-D

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Not really much difference from 4" to 7" in ballistics of handguns, more dependent on the individual gun. Shooting accurately with the iron sights is 'easier' with the longer sight radius, with a red dot - not much difference given equal characteristics of the gun.