Do I need a 45?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Muzzle loader manufacturers are all about the small bore now for longer range accuracy. I see 45's and even 40's being sold now.

Is my 50 cal in-line too old fashioned? Should I give in and buy a smaller caliber? I have no intention of using fancy Blackhorn powder or fancy plastic tipped plastic skirted wonder boolits.

What do you think?

[Winger Ed.]

"Need" is an ugly word, I try not to use it.
If you 'want' one, just get it.

[Nobade]

Of course you do. It's another gun, right? I have an inline 35 cal I built a number of years ago, and as fun as it is I found out my new state requires 38 caliber for deer so I guess I'm in the same boat and need to build a 38 or 40. See how this works?

[Tracy]

I'm a fan of .45 muzzleloaders, so I would say yes.

[pilot]

Try a side lock this time, Steve. Better yet, one with a rock. :drinks:

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Try a side lock this time, Steve. Better yet, one with a rock. :drinks:

I picked up a Lyman Deerstalker. It was a rock smasher! I learned the hard way not to buy a cheap flintlock. I had to buy a new expensive lock and try to make it fit. It works OK now. I should have bought a quality Pedersoli.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I put my 45 flinters together from parts sets from Track of the wolf and a few other places , have the 40 barrel but have not got around to it yet , need is a funny thing in this hobby , mostly want fits better .

[beagle74]

Everybody needs a .45, flint is even better!

[LAGS]

I needed one so bad , I bought Two.
Too bad they are both percussion.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I couldn't buy caps if I tried. I've got a brick of French 209 primers which should take me a lifetime to burn through.

[LAGS]

That is why I started making my own caps again.
But I did stock up on factory primers and 209's a couple years back , because I saw this condition coming Again

[oldracer]

If it were me and it was 6 or 8 years ago then build one up and I used the following:
- 45 caliber barrel, Green Mtn and 1 in 18 twist, 34 inch or so length, "patent breech".
- Use either #11 caps OR get a 209 shotgun primer adapter. We had several folks in our shooting group complain about the 209s but they were used in the 1800s according to Ned Roberts fine book. I forget who was first to do it in the 1880s.
- Use either primitive sights or a good tang sight with hooded front sight.
- Use either some somewhat fancy walnut or maple for the stock. You can cut it to fit you exactly.
- Use either L&R or Davis double set trigger and hammer assemblies OR make it an under hammer.

You will need some tools such as barrel channel scrapers, checkering tools and drill with sharp drill bits. Might want to consider an electric grinder with a grinding wheel on one end and a polishing wheel on the other side as many parts such as butt plate and trigger guard are sand cast and can be filed then polished. A set of files, especially several large, very fine flat files and a wire brush to clean them. A set of gunsmith screw drivers such as Wheelers is a must for the way the screws are cut.

You can blue the barrel, hammer and trigger parts with Oxpho-Blue which holds up very well and some actual "gun" degreaser.

Finally, a mold or two to get some 540 grain grease groove bullets which can be pan lubed or on the fly. My 45 caliber rifles (4 total) all shoot out to 300 yards easily. That is how far our range goes.

Good luck
John

[zymguy]

I like big lead conicals out of an in line 45

[megasupermagnum]

@oldracer, I don't care one bit what kind of ignition a person uses. I used plenty of 209s myself. That said, there's no way they were used in the 1800s. I don't think the complete primer unit as known today didn't come out until the 1920s or 30s. Before that, shotgun primers were often berdan, or other rifle/pistol style. Even after, there were all kinds of shotgun primers like 57, 97, 157, 109 etc. I don't know when 209s came on the scene, but they were not the de facto shotgun primer until at least the mid 1980s.

[indian joe]

of course you need a 45 ....but you do not need another inline ....get a sidelock - and something with a bit of barrel (30 inches or more )

[freakonaleash]

Here's what you need. It's easy on caps too.293094
293095
293096
293097

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Just for shooting or deer, in some states .50 is minimum for elk or moose. A .36 or .40, even a .32 for fun. Probably should have one of each in percussion or in-line, and flint, just in case primers and caps disappear.

[Baltimoreed]

Thats a real beauty there freak. Did you build her? My first ml build was a .45 Kentucky longrifle, second was a .58 Hawken which was rebuilt into an underhammer. Killed a bunch of whitetails with it. The last is an unfinished combination of the two, a .54 caliber full stocked underhammer. Maybe I’ll get back too it. Too many projects and interests. As to the op’s question, why not, a good winter project and I’m pretty sure non of the parts that you will need to build one are made in China.

[freakonaleash]

Thats a real beauty there freak. Did you build her? My first ml build was a .45 Kentucky longrifle, second was a .58 Hawken which was rebuilt into an underhammer. Killed a bunch of whitetails with it. The last is an unfinished combination of the two, a .54 caliber full stocked underhammer. Maybe I’ll get back too it. Too many projects and interests. As to the op’s question, why not, a good winter project and I’m pretty sure non of the parts that you will need to build one are made in China.

Yep, one of mine. I have built almost 400 now. Practice makes perfect!:wink:

[dondiego]

What? You don't own a .45!!!!??????? I still have my first one from 1964.

[Dak47]

Why yes, yes you need to acquire one! Having fun with GPR .54 capper, my .54 TVM Tennessee Basic Flinter is almost 3 months late and counting, right after I get it and make sure it's sorted a .45 Flinter is on the menu. Have high hopes on the TVM .......

[charlie b]

What are you going to do with it? If hunting what are the state regulations. Then pick.

If you like what you have, keep using it. If not, then buy something new :)

I would rather have a fast twist .45 sidelock, but, they were a bit more difficult to find.

[GregLaROCHE]

Everyone needs another gun. Especially if it’s a muzzle loader.

[oldracer]

If you want one ready to shoot and win a world championship then buy a Pedersoli Gibbs in 45 caliber. I would suggest buying their drop tube and also their bullet mold. I got mine about 4 years ago and it took me several years to find a used one which I bought from a young fellow in Texas.
John

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

If you want one ready to shoot and win a world championship then buy a Pedersoli Gibbs in 45 caliber. I would suggest buying their drop tube and also their bullet mold. I got mine about 4 years ago and it took me several years to find a used one which I bought from a young fellow in Texas.
John

Could someone explain how a drop tube benefits a muzzleloader? I mean - if you pour the powder in from the muzzle, you pretty much have a drop tube built in.

[smithnframe]

Everyone should have a 45! To quote Elmer Keith…….A heavy chunk of lead where it will do the most good!

[oldracer]

I use the drop tube/funnel combo that Pedersoli sells and mainly it keeps any powder going down the barrel off the sides. When shooting a grease groove bullet it is good not to get any powder that the bullet can run into. This rifle uses a bore diameter bullet with a fiber wad under it so it shoots best with a clean bore. My mentor suggested I use one so initially I made one and there was one that came with the rifle when I bought it. I also wipe between each shot, one damp patch then a dry one used on both sides to dry the bore.
John

[Sixgun Symphony]

Long range?


https://youtu.be/cSrUgvUpGeI

[Sixgun Symphony]

1,200 yds with paper patched .50 caliber conical bullet from T/C Renegade rifle with Rice drop in barrel.


https://youtu.be/FmBB4gZ1sOk

[Gtrubicon]

You don’t need one, you need as many as you can get! It’s my favorite across the board.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

1,200 yds with paper patched .50 caliber conical bullet from T/C Renegade rifle with Rice drop in barrel.


Very impressive. And you did that without a free floating barrel, Blackhord powder, or a plastic sabot. I guess I'll just try to tweak what I have until I can find something that works.

[Kosh75287]

PART of this response is "analysis" and the rest is inquiry/data gathering for my own purposes, since I know next to nothing about black powder firearms:
1.) You have a .50 caliber rifle, which (I assume) is a VERY effective meat-gatherer on its own. Would a .45 caliber rifle gain you any advantage (flatter trajectory, longer usable range, less recoil, slower powder consumption, better accuracy, easier to carry, etc)?
2.) Would the smaller bore enable you to engage other game, not well attempted with the .50 caliber rifle (perhaps rabbits, squirrel, peccary, etc. with less meat destruction) that could not be attempted by the use of sabots?
3.) Is there high interchangeability of components (primers & powder, though obviously not projectiles) and rifle parts between the two? In a (relatively) civilized world, this consideration seems less important, but it certainly CAN BECOME a factor is things decline more than they have at present.

GENERALLY, I don't see anything sporting or humane about trying the taking of any game with the smallest firearm possible, but the jump down from .50 caliber to .45 isn't much. Additionally, if a shooter shoots the smaller-bore rifle better, especially under time pressure, then the likelihood of taking game humanely and efficiently is actually enhanced.
I should also point out that I've shot muzzle-loaders a grand total of ~200 times in my life (though enjoyed it immensely), so there may be a great deal of the esoterica of this shooting art that I simply don't "get", that others do. But this is the analysis that I would use in the decision process. I would ALSO be willing to let all that careful analysis be untimely "trumped" by the "I just WANT one!" motivation, and smile approvingly at the outcome, no matter what.

[mooman76]

I haven't seen where 40s and 45s are selling more. They are less common, especially 40s and usually need to be custom ordered. The only advantage I see to them are less lead and powder. Not knocking either because all calibers are useful and have their purpose. 50s have allot more options but it's always nice to have other calibers as an option to shot. I started with 45 but wanted bigger for hunting the larger game like elk and moose. After awhile went to 32 for economy and then went up to 36 to shoot economy with a little more umph. And in there somewheres I picked up a 54. Not because I wanted yet another caliber but seen a T/C Scout and a good price and I always wanted one.

[Winger Ed.]

If you insist on using the word 'need'....

I figure not only do you need it, but the very future of Western civilization,
and your survival depends on you getting it.:bigsmyl2:

[Super Sneaky Steve]

https://youtu.be/yj2wsUhhLgc
Maybe I'm buying into the hype. It looks like CVA is trying to get more speed and energy for longer range hunting. I don't really need it. In the woods where I hunt I'm realistically shooting at 75 yards or less.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Very impressive. And you did that without a free floating barrel, Blackhord powder, or a plastic sabot. I guess I'll just try to tweak what I have until I can find something that works.

That was Idaho Lewis, not me.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I haven't seen where 40s and 45s are selling more. They are less common, especially 40s and usually need to be custom ordered. The only advantage I see to them are less lead and powder. Not knocking either because all calibers are useful and have their purpose. 50s have allot more options but it's always nice to have other calibers as an option to shot. I started with 45 but wanted bigger for hunting the larger game like elk and moose. After awhile went to 32 for economy and then went up to 36 to shoot economy with a little more umph. And in there somewheres I picked up a 54. Not because I wanted yet another caliber but seen a T/C Scout and a good price and I always wanted one.

In these times of inflation and shortages, the smaller calibers make sense for the reasons of economy as you have noted.

[Edward]

Could someone explain how a drop tube benefits a muzzleloader? I mean - if you pour the powder in from the muzzle, you pretty much have a drop tube built in.

My 34 inch tube enables me to get 84 grains in a 45/70 case with a vibrating (old electric shaver) which otherwise is maxed out at 78 grains shooting 530 gr PP Shoot long and you know the difference!/Ed

[Edward]

In these times of inflation and shortages, the smaller calibers make sense for the reasons of economy as you have noted.

You don't need more than 45 (my paper patch ) weights 530 grains and usually gets there faster /farther with less drop than what your talking about .And the boolit isn't the cost ,it's the primer and the powder ,if that's important try golfing /Ed

[Good Cheer]

I've had a TC New Englander refit for off the shelf 45-70 molds since about 2009 or so, .458 bore / .470 groove.
You can shoot the 45-70 molds lubed. Or if you want to paper patch them and run them through a sizer you can do that too.
You can even paper patch hollow based .45 minies, Keith SWC's and .45 Colt round noses when the accuracy of the 45-70 molds becomes monotonous.
The TC barrel length was maintained so it's about like shooting a 45-90 with a 26" barrel. Got another spare left hand barrel so it might become 32". My new glasses are to arrive this week so I'm waiting to see which way to go.

And yes, everyone needs a .45.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

This might be a good way to try a 45 cal for woods hunting distances. http://www.longrifles-pr.com/underhammer.shtml

[Sixgun Symphony]

That primers and caps are hard to find and expensive, consider purchasing a flintlock longrifle for reasons of self sustainability. Remember that you can't afford cheap when buying flintlocks. Buy once, cry once as they say.

The public libraries are free and you can check out books on knapping flint. There are also YouTube videos.

[HWooldridge]

I have examined many old half stock plains rifles that were used in Texas and a large proportion are around .38-.42 cal. A local historian told me that people were cost-conscious (cheap?) and liked the smaller sizes because the lead went further, and anything deer sized or smaller did not require a larger caliber. He maintained that some of the rifles around .50 cal had started life as smaller bores and were bored larger at a later time. The larger calibers were not really necessary until people ran into larger animals as they moved westward. Of course, that is just one man's opinion - but it sounded logical to me.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I have examined many old half stock plains rifles that were used in Texas and a large proportion are around .38-.42 cal. A local historian told me that people were cost-conscious (cheap?) and liked the smaller sizes because the lead went further, and anything deer sized or smaller did not require a larger caliber. He maintained that some of the rifles around .50 cal had started life as smaller bores and were bored larger at a later time. The larger calibers were not really necessary until people ran into larger animals as they moved westward. Of course, that is just one man's opinion - but it sounded logical to me.

He is right about settlers being frugal as they did not have alot of money. Most farmers were only hunting small to medium game. Well that and eliminating pests.