New SA-35 vs BHP Mark III Standard

[shooting on a shoestring]

I got my new SA-35 last week. It came with only a right hand safety (on the left side of the frame). Today I fitted a Cylinder and Slide ambi safety to it and decided to show y’all some pics and compare it to my Browning Hi Power Mark III Standard I’ve had for a few decades.

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The SA-35 seems to have been bead blasted then coated for mat finish that feels a little like a parkerized finish. Other than that it feels the same as the BHP. Frame contours, slide contours, weight and point ability are the same.

I paid MSRP for the SA-35 which IIRC was just under $700 before tax. In my opinion the gun, for a defensive weapon is very much worth that. However, it is not in the same class as the BHP for fit, finish and making small groups.

[shooting on a shoestring]

The SA-35 has better sights. SA-35 on the right.
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And the SA-35 has wider dovetails. BHP on right with smaller dovetails.
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[shooting on a shoestring]

The BHP still has the magazine disconnect. The SA-35 doesn’t have one nor is the frame cut for one. BHP on the right.
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Consequently, the SA-35 trigger breaks with less pressure and feels cleaner. The take up feels the same, over travel is not noticeable in either gun although they both have a little.

[rintinglen]

How do the triggers compare? I couldn't care less about an ambi safety, being pretty darned right handed, but trigger pull matters. My own Mk III has a spongy 6 1/2 lb. pull.

Ah, I was too quick on the trigger, errr, post. I am wanting one of these, but I need to examine one before I spend any money.

[shooting on a shoestring]

The SA-35 barrel doesn’t have a hood.
BHP on top, SA-35 on bottom.
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Also the SA-35 has endmill drag marks on the underside of the slide. When racking, when the slide rides over the hammer, there is a grittiness as the hammer rubs over the drag marks. It’s not a deal killer, but it is very noticeable. The BHP is smooth as glass when racking.

Also the BHP has a much tighter frame to slide fit. When you pull the trigger on a BHP the slide is pushed upward due to the see-saw in the slide that pushes down on the sear to release it. Therefore the slide travels upward a few thousandths of an inch during trigger pull buts it so small it’s not noticed. It can be felt and seen on the SA-35.

[shooting on a shoestring]

The barrel grove diameter of the BHP is 0.357”.
The SA-is 0.355”.

The SA-35 has a little better throat into the rifling.
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BHP.
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[shooting on a shoestring]

The worst thing on the SA-35 is the barrel to slide fit at the muzzle.
It’s very sloppy and the barrel muzzle noticeably moves and rattles around.
The outside diameter of the barrel in that area is 0.499” while the inside diameter of the slide is 0.512”. Yep about 0.013” clearance.

The BHP barrel OD measures 0.501” and the slide ID measures 0.507”. So it has 0.006” clearance.

You can see the BHP slide was honed to fit. The SA-35 was not.

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[Rodfac]

Good review...Range results? I've got one on order to add to my "Practical" two-tone and .40 Mklll. Rod

[shooting on a shoestring]

Last weekend with the factory single sided safety on the SA-35 I fired 50 rounds of factory MagTech 124 gr followed by 100 of my generic 9mm loads with 5.5 gr AA#5 and a 130 grain Accurate boolit at 0.359”. The SA-35 functioned flawlessly. I fired all the shots standing with only a couple of paper targets used and mostly shot a dueling tree. But…i was a little disappointed in the groups I did see. 18 yards and I saw 5-6” groups with both factory and mine. I’d expect the BHP to have been 2-3” groups there.

However, for point shooting and rapid fire, the SA-35 is adequate.

It’ll never come close to the BHP unless that barrel to slide fit is improved.
I do like the SA-35 trigger and sights. I like the price. I’m glad I got it and I’ll keep it. But I like my BHP better even with the disconnect.

Thought I’d share.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Rintinglen….yeah I should have measured trigger pull.

I don’t have a fancy pull meter but I can measure it by dribbling birdshot into a plastic water bottle coat hangered to the trigger, then weigh the bottle when the trigger breaks.

I’ll see if I can get that done before SWMBO finds something else for me to do.

[SOFMatchstaff]

Thanks, good post. I would be interested in parts inter-changeability, mostly slide and barrel fitment. That .357 bbl dia. has been my main bitchin point for years. It took a while to get a load that would do 2" at 25 in any of my HP's. Again good post....

[Gray Fox]

Perhaps the gun writers got hand finished guns because all that I have read described target groups about half of what you described. My wife and I are still waiting for ours to come in to our dealer and I will give a report once we have them in hand and worked with. GF

[shooting on a shoestring]

Ok measured the trigger pulls.

BHP 9.75 pounds.
SA-35 5.5 pounds.

I didn’t realize the BHP was THAT heavy.

[bosterr]

In this day and age of CNC machines, I would think the barrel/slide fit at the muzzle would be closer.

[Bigslug]

Ok measured the trigger pulls.

BHP 9.75 pounds.
SA-35 5.5 pounds.

I didn’t realize the BHP was THAT heavy.

I've had a problematic Hungarian FEG clone for probably 25 years that I've only recently dug back out to start applying improved know-how to (hopefully) get it extracting properly. It's still got the mag disconnect and it's right in there with your FN - trigger breaks clean. . .but just shy of 9 pounds.

Can't fault the ergonomics of the piece. . .but that teeter-totter fire control system reminds me of one of Wile E. Coyote's Rube Goldberg contraptions, and I do wish they stuck with the 1911-style internal extractor the design started with. Hopefully I soon have it to a point where it will run a full mag without half of them jamming the rim of the fired case on the bullet of the round below. That'll improve my outlook enormously.

[txbirdman]

You might try changing the extractor spring on the FEG. That spring is under constant pressure and it’s recommended to be changed out every 5 years or 5,000 rounds.

[Dan Cash]

I've had a problematic Hungarian FEG clone for probably 25 years .......

I also have a FEG but mine runs flawlessly and has never failed due to gun or magazine. As far as tight groups go, it does leave something to be desired but it is way better than 5 inch at 25 yards, more like 3 inches.

I have a SA-35 on order but the more I look at them, I am put off by the finish, which looks like rattle can paint. Any comments from those of you who have the gun in your hand?

[Bigslug]

You might try changing the extractor spring on the FEG. That spring is under constant pressure and it’s recommended to be changed out every 5 years or 5,000 rounds.

Done and Nope. Got a perfect run with aluminum-cased Blazer, but it regularly slips off anything brass. Problem seems to be a too-narrow extractor hook with insufficient grip. Wheels turning on the upgrade, in a back-burner project kind of way.

I'm gonna take a moment to prognosticate a little here; in ten years, if these "legacy" designs are still being produced, they're going to switch to either a 1911-style system where the extractor is it's own spring, or, more likely, to a Glock-style coil-spring-and-pushrod arrangement that allows you to increase or decrease tension by changing out cheap plastic caps to the coil spring that are of different thicknesses.

The reason for this is that those two systems insert from the rear of the slide. In this brave new age of slide-mounted red dot sights, any system with a slide using vertically-driven roll pins to hold in its guts is really going to be showing its age.

I had thought that the teeter-totter sear lever fire control system was my biggest beef against the Hi Power. Having now struggled with one that has issues, I think that's changed to the fact that you have to first remove that sear lever BEFORE you can remove the extractor, and in the process, you may end up faced with a need to replace the possibly-no-longer-grippy roll pins for BOTH. One of those frustrating design elements where "cheaper" unfortunately didn't make for "better".

I keep coming to the conclusion that semi-auto handgun functionality is capped by the genius of Browning on one end, and by that of Glock on the other. . .and had/has a bunch of determined amateurs like Dieudonne Saive struggling valiantly in the middle. The HP has a lot of potential - it just needs to be a gun that feels like a Hi Power, but doesn't operate like a Hi Power.:veryconfu

[AlHunt]

I've had a problematic Hungarian FEG clone for probably 25 years that I've only recently dug back out to start applying improved know-how to (hopefully) get it extracting properly.

My FEG from way back when had extraction problems. A max charge of Blue Dot (which is now considered an overcharge) cured the problem. Wasn't so much extracting, I think, as much as blowing the case out ... :)

[Kosh75287]

This is an inquiry, not an argument, since I know next to nothing about P-35s. It was mentioned that the BHP barrel was hooded, and the SA-35 is not. What is the purpose of the barrel hood, and does its presence/absence really matter?

ADDENDUM: There's also the matter about whether the slide locking lugs (or maybe the entire slide?) on the SA-35s are merely surface-hardened, a la BHP, rather than "through hardened". The latter process tends to engender a longer wear cycle. I can't imagine what the "wheels" at Liege were thinking, when they decided to just surface-harden key parts of the weapon vs. using through-hardened steel everywhere. I guess deep bluing finishes and polishing were cheaper.

[Bigslug]

This is an inquiry, not an argument, since I know next to nothing about P-35s. It was mentioned that the BHP barrel was hooded, and the SA-35 is not. What is the purpose of the barrel hood, and does its presence/absence really matter?

Assuming that one was building a precision-fit target pistol on a Browning-based, tilting barrel system. . .

1. Recoil spring pushes the whole slide forward.

2. Barrel lug engages on the slide stop or locking block and starts lifting upwards to lockup, which occurs not only there, but also. . .

3. At the muzzle where the barrel is ideally fitted to the slide or barrel bushing. . .

4. At the radiused cuts on the slide/barrel in front of the chamber (1911 & BHP), or front of the chamber (Glock, Sig)

5. At the top-rear of the barrel hood against the upper surfaces of the breech face or close to it.

All of that conspires to lock the barrel into as consistent alignment with the slide (containing your sights) as possible for best accuracy. If the goal is to try to do all of that to a semi-decent level of precision, there's enough redundancy to get OK results if one of the areas isn't up to snuff. If you're trying to kick wartime production bullet hoses out the door as fast as possible, the more possible chances you have at "an anchor that can bite sea-floor", the better.

A large number of partial anchors can do a surprisingly good job, but if it's all loosey-goosey and you start omitting some entirely, yeah, the corner-cutting may bite you.

[Kosh75287]

Thanks for the explanation. In light of the loose-fitting barrel-slide fit at the muzzle, perhaps retaining the barrel hood might have been a good idea.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm planning to get an SA-35 as soon as I can afford it. If nothing else, to reward Springfield for keeping this wonderful pistol in production

[shooting on a shoestring]

Bigslug, “ The HP has a lot of potential - it just needs to be a gun that feels like a Hi Power, but doesn't operate like a Hi Power.” AMEN!!!

The single biggest best factor the BHP has going for it is the way it feels and points.

I’ve never looked at a BHP as a target grade bullseye shooter.
To me they are a defensive tool most useful for quickly solving close encounters of the turd kind.

[one-eyed fat man]

...The HP has a lot of potential - it just needs to be a gun that feels like a Hi Power, but doesn't operate like a Hi Power.:veryconfu

The Czechs had the answer in 1975. My old CZ-75 I got at the Rod & Gun Club in Grafenwöhr in 1979. Very comfortable in the hand, feels a lot like a Browning Hi-Power but with an SA/DA option and an easier to use safety. Gives me the option of either cocked and locked OR DA first pull on a loaded chamber.

I've run a boatload of GI issue ball though mine when it was "easy" to obtain. I don't care if the gun rag writers thinks it's obsolete, it suits me.


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[Thumbcocker]

The Czechs had the answer in 1975. My old CZ-75 I got at the Rod & Gun Club in Grafenwöhr in 1979. Very comfortable in the hand, feels a lot like a Browning Hi-Power but with an SA/DA option and an easier to use safety. Gives me the option of either cocked and locked OR DA first pull on a loaded chamber.

I've run a boatload of GI issue ball though mine when it was "easy" to obtain. I don't care if the gun rag writers thinks it's obsolete, it suits me.


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Absolutely agree. Sent mine to Cajun gun works and it is just awesome. That hand fitted bushing showed what the platform can do.

[OBXPilgrim]

Absolutely agree. Sent mine to Cajun gun works and it is just awesome. That hand fitted bushing showed what the platform can do.

+2 on the CZ75. And those Mec-Gar mags work great.

[Alstep]

+2 on the CZ75. And those Mec-Gar mags work great.

+3 here on the CZ & Mec-Gar mags. Had Doug Guy ream the throat, now all my cast boolits plunk and shoot great.
I almost bought a HP a few years ago, but the seller backed out. Now I'm glad he did. Like the CZ much better, and it was much cheaper than what the HP would have cost me at the time.

[jrayborn]

If you have never handled a CZ you have no idea what you are missing. I just learned that, myself, about a year and two CZ's ago...

However, I would like to hold a SA-35 as well.

[higgins]

This was an opportunity for SA to design a reversible, safety for us left-handed shooters. A bulkier ambidestrous safety would detract from the looks, but not a reversible one.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Cylinder and Slide to the rescue.
I fitted this one first weekend I had the gun. It’s great!
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[Greg G]

.013" clearance between barrel and inside of slide is a deal breaker for me. I'll just look at pics of it and pass on getting one. Good looking gun. Too bad about tolerances though.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Yep I hear you.
Had I known I wouldn’t have bought it either.

But let me throw out a couple of things. First this is a sample of one. Not sure if all are going to be this loose. It’s just that I measured this one. Second, it’s Glock accurate. It’s not a useless gun. It is plenty good for a defensive gun for under 25 yards. I’m keeping it.

But, if someone comes up with a slick fix like an over-size OD barrel, I’ll be trying that. I do like the gun and it works. But yes, the rattling barrel and subsequent group size sucks.

[cattoon]

For those that have installed an ambi safety did you have to do any modification to the right grip panel?

[shooting on a shoestring]

No.
I did not on this Sa-35.
The safety sits above the grip and doesn’t interfere with the top of the grip.
Also the thumb tab on the right side of the pistol for the left hand thumb is pined on to the hammer shaft.
Same set up for the factory safety on the BHP Mark III. I think it’s same for all of the models.

[cattoon]

Hmmmm the ambi safety that I ordered is supposed to be browning factory but it does not pin on. It has a slot and tab.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Catton, here’s a close up pic of my BHP Mark III Standard.
You can see the roll pin that pins the safety tab to the hammer shaft.
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I can’t speak to the other models.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Oh I should be clear that my BHP came from the factory with the ambi safety. I think all the Mark III’s did.

[Bushwacker Berg]

They did the same thing to the ambi safety on the browning 1911-22, like the medallion. I am interested in the Springfield version. Currently I have a Belgium BHP that came out of Israel and has the star of David stamp from the idf. I can only imagine the stories that pistol can tell. I also have a Belgium in new condition in 40s&w. Both still have the magazine safety installed, but will do 2 inch groups. I just traded a scope for an Argentine FM browning. It has the mag safety removed and trigger was better. Like many here my first one was an FEG in 45 acp. It had extraction problems. The cz75 and there progeny the sp1 are fine pistols with ergonomics resembling bhps.

[Divil]

The SA P-35 will lack the firing pin safety found on the FN MKIII. The SA setup is Probably seen as a good thing by many but for paranoid types like me I prefer the firing pin safety. I am not a tigger pull connoisseur.

[cattoon]

I have a BHP and noticed the difference, but Numrich alleged that this was a factory Browning safety.

[david s]

The Hi Power shouldn't need the grips cut for the Cylinder and Slide ambi safety.
https://i.postimg.cc/3RJHCTvB/IMG-1393-2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[FergusonTO35]

And, FN comes out with a new USA made Hi-Power. Good times for us BHP fans!

https://fnamerica.com/highpower

[M-Tecs]

And, FN comes out with a new USA made Hi-Power. Good times for us BHP fans!

https://fnamerica.com/highpower

From what I have read some of the parts are not interchangeable with true Hi-Powers so it is more of a Hi-Power type. Depending on what you are looking for that may or may not be a good thing. Just something to be aware of.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Reminds me I need to get this one out and shoot for groups. Hoping it’s better than I remember.