350 legend loads for a Savage Axis

[ABJ]

I think I have read every 350L thread and still not sure where to start.
Here are my specs. Savage Axis 18", accurate mold 36-180LG, Alloy is 2% tin and 4% antimony air cooled. Sized at .357 to start with. Velocity range is 1700/1850 for a 100 yd zero for whitetail. Powders I have available are H & IMR 4227, 2400, 5744, 4759, and 4198. My preferred is 5744 if it will work. I have faster and slower powders but based on my reading these should work for my intended velocity range. The only ones I don't have is H-110 or 296 but I can get some 296 if needed.
Hodgen list a 180 winpp with I-4227 at 22.7/1880 and 24.7/2032
Shooting times article, same bullet with I-4227 24.7/2082 max and 5744 25.5/2074 max.
The only lead data was for a 357 max. with a max load of 19.8 of 5744 for 1657 fps.

My question is how do I decide a start load for boolits using jacketed data and/or using 357 max data. A lot of the threads are leaning to the AR platform or using 200 grain boolits. I want to stick with the 180. I have a 35 rem with 200's but the Savage is a lot lighter for carrying around.

Any wisdom you can share would be greatly appreciated.
Tony

[Camba]

I my TC Encore rifle, I loaded it using Lil’Gun powder under 180gr XTP hornady bullet. I use the same powder charge for my Henry single shot rifle in 350 Legend with the 170gr sp hornady bullet.
I worked the charges from 20.5 gr of Lil’Gun and stopped a little shy of 26.0 gr.
Good accuracy in the 357 max at 21.5 gr and at max charge. 350 legend had good accuracy in my rifle starting at 24 gr.
My tc encore is a strong action and these loads worked fine for me. Other rifles/actions may be different so work up your loads.
I think the 21.5 gr load was at or about the 2000 fps you are looking for.
Camba


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[P Flados]

Your 5744 does look pretty good for burn rate.

Pressure tested load data is in short supply for 350L.

I ran Quickload with this powder and a 180 gr cast bullet seated 0.300" deep. Note that these are not tested or recommended loads, just calculated results:



Cartridge : .350 Legend (SAAMI)
Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm
Powder : Accurate 5744

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.8 74 19.00 1707 1165 25099 3413 86.2 1.334
-18.8 76 19.50 1748 1222 26790 3528 87.4 1.296
-16.7 78 20.00 1789 1279 28575 3641 88.5 1.259
-14.6 80 20.50 1830 1338 30458 3752 89.6 1.224
-12.5 82 21.00 1870 1398 32445 3861 90.6 1.191
-10.4 83 21.50 1910 1459 34543 3967 91.5 1.159
-08.3 85 22.00 1950 1520 36759 4071 92.4 1.128
-06.3 87 22.50 1990 1583 39098 4172 93.3 1.099
-04.2 89 23.00 2030 1647 41570 4269 94.1 1.071
-02.1 91 23.50 2070 1712 44183 4364 94.9 1.044
+00.0 93 24.00 2109 1778 46946 4454 95.6 1.018 ! Near Maximum !
+02.1 95 24.50 2148 1844 49870 4541 96.2 0.993 ! Near Maximum !
+04.2 97 25.00 2187 1912 52966 4624 96.8 0.969 ! Near Maximum !
+06.3 99 25.50 2226 1980 56246 4703 97.4 0.946 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 93 24.00 2198 1931 54486 4485 99.1 0.958 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 93 24.00 1995 1591 39602 4266 89.3 1.095

[P Flados]

And here is 4227 again with a 180 cast at 0.300" deep.



Cartridge : .350 Legend (SAAMI)
Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4227

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.8 77 19.00 1586 1005 19262 3124 85.2 1.482
-18.8 79 19.50 1626 1057 20598 3235 86.6 1.437
-16.7 81 20.00 1666 1110 22015 3344 87.9 1.395
-14.6 83 20.50 1707 1164 23516 3450 89.1 1.354
-12.5 85 21.00 1747 1219 25118 3554 90.3 1.315
-10.4 87 21.50 1787 1276 26795 3654 91.4 1.278
-08.3 89 22.00 1827 1334 28615 3751 92.4 1.242
-06.3 91 22.50 1866 1392 30529 3845 93.4 1.207
-04.2 93 23.00 1906 1452 32566 3934 94.3 1.175
-02.1 95 23.50 1945 1513 34730 4020 95.1 1.143
+00.0 97 24.00 1985 1574 37035 4101 95.9 1.112
+02.1 99 24.50 2024 1637 39491 4178 96.6 1.083
+04.2 101 25.00 2063 1701 42107 4249 97.2 1.055
+06.3 104 25.50 2101 1765 44900 4316 97.8 1.028
+08.3 106 26.00 2140 1830 47881 4377 98.3 1.002 ! Near Maximum !
+10.4 108 26.50 2178 1896 51066 4433 98.7 0.977 ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 24.00 2082 1732 44312 4091 99.5 1.037
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 24.00 1859 1381 30415 3919 88.7 1.211

[ABJ]

"P Flados" outstanding and thanks. The 19.5 of 5744 was the figure I had in my head as a starting load. Not looking for high velocity, and 1800ish is where my alloy gives good terminal performance on whitetails.
It is also interesting that the Shooting times data using 5744 for the 180 power points(25.5 @ 2074) and your calc. @ 2226. seems to bear out the cast with the same charge will produce more velocity. And NO I not going there just comparing data points.
The H4227 data takes a little more than I thought compared to 5744.
I'll do a ladder test with 5744 and see how it does. Again thanks for taking the time.
Tony

[cwlongshot]

I think I have read every 350L thread and still not sure where to start.
Here are my specs. Savage Axis 18", accurate mold 36-180LG, Alloy is 2% tin and 4% antimony air cooled. Sized at .357 to start with. Velocity range is 1700/1850 for a 100 yd zero for whitetail. Powders I have available are H & IMR 4227, 2400, 5744, 4759, and 4198. My preferred is 5744 if it will work. I have faster and slower powders but based on my reading these should work for my intended velocity range. The only ones I don't have is H-110 or 296 but I can get some 296 if needed.
Hodgen list a 180 winpp with I-4227 at 22.7/1880 and 24.7/2032
Shooting times article, same bullet with I-4227 24.7/2082 max and 5744 25.5/2074 max.
The only lead data was for a 357 max. with a max load of 19.8 of 5744 for 1657 fps.

My question is how do I decide a start load for boolits using jacketed data and/or using 357 max data. A lot of the threads are leaning to the AR platform or using 200 grain boolits. I want to stick with the 180. I have a 35 rem with 200's but the Savage is a lot lighter for carrying around.

Any wisdom you can share would be greatly appreciated.
Tony
Morning Tony!

Exciting rifle caliber!!

For data you can look to the 357 Maximum. The maximum is as close as you can get yet not be same. It is loaded to 40k where the 350 is 52k. The 357max is slightly less case volume. So a MAX Maximum load is lower then a 350 Starting load nearly across the board. Exceptions being those powder that done like to be down loaded. But with your article you will have good lods suggested for those few powders.

IMHO you smart to keep cast loads to the 1800 fps range. Its plenty! I have a couple bucks with my cast loads in the caliber and many many many more from the 357 Maxi.

Unique and herco have provided many many great loads. Last deer fell to 12g Blue Dot and a 220 MP HP bullet at a wst impact vel of 1400 fps. Thru and thru chest cav. Nickel sized exit.

I like 5744 allot as well as 4227 as well and have a few good loads.

Look at the loads that you know for the 350 and compair data to same powder/bullet with Maximum data and you will see.

Good luck

CW

[ABJ]

Thanks CW, I figured you would chime in and I appreciate it. I have been following your input on the other 350 threads. The more I use 5744 the more I like it. It's my hunting and accuracy load on 35 Rem/200 and 30-30/170. Same with the H-4227 vs the IMR-4227. The H is a lot softer recoil in my 44 redhawk. I haven't had the accuracy with either 4227 vs the 5744 but I think I was undercharging the 4227 based on the quickload data comparison. If the 5744 test works, I doubt I will even try the 4227. Especially since H has been discontinued. I am hoarding the H and my 4759 and using them for hunting only loadings.
Also thanks for the 357 max info, I wasn't sure how to convert it to 350L.
Tony

[cwlongshot]

Agreed. I like the H4227 better. Not sure how it "lost out".

CW

[P Flados]

No problem. If you want a better projections, post your actual bullet length and AOL. As I was playing with my 16" 357AR Max, I found that small AOL changes made noticeable velocity changes.

FYI, I was shooting ASBB HF Red coated NLG cast 180 gr and 200 gr bullets. My 180s shot better at around 1700 fps and my 200 gr accuracy was better near max than with reduced loads. More discussion is at:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?312313-357AR-(Max-Rimless)-AR15

[ABJ]

Thanks, P, your data sort of confirms what I thought and I was glad to see where quickload predicts the danger zones. I always load 5, three in the target and two over the lab radar unit when ladder testing. I will test over the holidays and post results on this thread.
Tony