All electric pickup. Still not buying it.

[Idaho45guy]

The Rivian R1T is an all-electric pickup that has 800hp and does 0-60 mph in about 3 seconds. Amazing performance. Cost is around $70k, which is about the same as a Ford F-150 King Ranch.

It's ugly, but the hundreds of features are amazing.

Still, can't justify the cost, even if electricity was free. I've yet to see one of these electric vehicle reviews address range when the temperature is around 0, like it gets down to many times around here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYrunRy8hmw

292851

[Thundarstick]

Some of the research I'm reading is that it's actually cheaper to burn gasoline than use electricity, and that's not counting the cost of either vehicle!

[Idaho45guy]

Another thing that I didn't see addressed is that every single function on that vehicle required electricity. Opening the doors required an electric servo to function. Opening the panel to re-charge it required an electric servo to activate when touched. The tailgate, the hood, everything was electric.

So... What happens when it sits outside in -20 degree weather and the batteries completely die? How do you get into it or even open the charging port to charge the batteries? It doesn't even have a key; just a fob that relies on electricity.

This massive push towards EVs is absolutely rooted in an evil plot by the globalists to handicap those of us in rural and cold-weather areas.

292852

[trebor44]

While there have been some massive intrusions into the environment by human activity over the years, this is more of a 'profit' push than a 'save the planet'. Destroying and re-arranging the landscape to increase development is more of an environmental impact then carbon based vehicles. What about the resources developed and the processes to consume these 'save the planet' items? Seems to be a lot of blinders have become fashionable in lieu of thinking outside the 'mantra'!

[Sasquatch-1]

Wife worked with a woman who bought a Chevy Volt. During the summer she would come to work and brag about not buying gas. The first sub-freezing day she was late for work. Got three miles from her house and the battery died.

[JimB..]

This massive push towards EVs is absolutely rooted in an evil plot by the globalists to handicap those of us in rural and cold-weather areas.


I get that you’re all about the conspiracy, but in this case isn’t it more likely that those of us in rural cold weather areas are economically unimportant to car companies? I wonder if we’ll see diesel work trucks from John Deere as the consumer brands abandon the segment? Will IH get back into it? Bet they won’t be just $70k!

[country gent]

A pick up is or was a work vehicle who cares how fast it will do 0-60. With a truck I care more about load capacity and towing capabilities. I want to know what its range is pulling 2 gravity boxes of grain or carrying a load of stone. And other chores a truck is used for. How is it going to perform in the mud the dust and the crude, fording a small stream or flooded road. rough toads and terrain, will it set corn or wheat stubble on fire ( the early catalytic converters would).

[Sasquatch-1]

How is it going to perform in the mud the dust and the crude, fording a small stream or flooded road. rough toads and terrain, will it set corn or wheat stubble on fire ( the early catalytic converters would).


Now there is an interesting point. I have seen many a "Snow Flake" stuck on a flooded rod with their small Toyota or Honda. Just think what that would do to an all-electric vehicle.

[Gator 45/70]

+ side, You can carry the generator in the bed and charge while you drive.

[OS OK]

Back in the 60's when I was a teen, I ran my old 48 Dodge PU out of gas many times and had to walk to a payphone, call a buddy and ask him to bring me a can of gas.

With these EV's...how does someone bring you a can of electricity? :bigsmyl2:

I'm not against progress but I am against ANYTHING promoted by the GLOBALISTS.

[lightman]

Electric vehicle performance is awesome. But, there are still lots of issues to overcome. Cold weather performance is just one of them. How long does a charge last when driving in the mountains or pulling a trailer? How/where will you get rid of the old batteries or will they become hazardous waste? I will say that it will be awhile before I jump on one.

[Froogal]

A pick up is or was a work vehicle who cares how fast it will do 0-60. With a truck I care more about load capacity and towing capabilities. I want to know what its range is pulling 2 gravity boxes of grain or carrying a load of stone. And other chores a truck is used for. How is it going to perform in the mud the dust and the crude, fording a small stream or flooded road. rough toads and terrain, will it set corn or wheat stubble on fire ( the early catalytic converters would).

Exactly!! The manufacturers seem to have totally abandoned the idea of a pickup truck being a work truck.

[contender1]

Lots of good points above about electric vehicles.
Of course,, NONE of those issues are addressed by the makers & sellers of such crap. And one thing not mentioned is the cost of the batteries,, from the basic building, to maintaining, to disposal, to what it does to the environment. And of course,, right now, the cost of electricity at charging stations,, may be "low" but it will increase. Plus,, what happens to a a vehicle when you can't charge it due to power outages, grids going down, etc.
I'm old enough to where I'll never be forced into buying an electric vehicle. And I too want a truck to WORK. Pansy types who buy a truck to carry a few bags of groceries,, or maybe move a single piece of furniture, or whatever do not WORK in a truck. Heck, I have a 4-door,, and the back seats are folded up out of the way for me to store work equipment in that space. If I were to try & get more than one rider,, I'd have to empty the inside of my rear cab area. And that would be a chore.
I need power to work,, quality built, easier to maintain, less likely to have issues that would need a specialist mechanic, etc. So when I bought my 2021 4x4, it was strictly a base model work truck type. Oh, and it still has a nice V-8 gas engine thank you.

Those tree hugging, grass eating, weenies can cry all they want. But in my job,, when I go to a customers house,, and I see such crap,, my job estimates go UP for those types. They want to force an agenda,, they can PAY ME MORE to put up with their crap. And occasionally,, when my quotes are questioned,, I politely say; "Due to increased expenses for materials, delivery, gas, insurance, taxes, and especially forced government mandates upon my business,, I have to charge my fees to stay in business. I can't work for free,, or pay to work for you!"

I work in an area a lot that's full of eco-freaks. LOTS of push for the greenie methods. Only once has a person said something about my full sized gas drinking truck,, vs her Prius electric car. And when I got through with that woman,, she was severely pissed at me,, but could not deny the things I'd told her about what her "cheap electric car" actually cost the environment. I told her to NOT believe me,, but be smart & do ACTUAL research into how electric car batteries are made,, and what THAT does to the environment.

[country gent]

I helped move hospital and emergency personnel during bad weather when younger with my 4 wheel drive truck. Sometimes pushing snow with the pumper and or grill. Or fording flooded roads. truck sat on 14" X 35" tires. Sometimes paralleling the road in known fields because they were clearer than the road. I have to wonder how these electric trucks are going to handle this abuse.

As a funny aside. I stopped one night to pick up a nurse to take to the local hospital. Her husband answered the door. Since it was well below zero I had left the truck running and lights all on. He looked out started laughing, I told him its not much but its paid for and mine. Then his wife came to the door, I think she would have had to stand tippy toe to reach 4' tall. I told him to get his coat He was helping her in the truck.:lol:

I do have an open mind on electric vehicles but until I see real life performance data directly related to the vehicles intended usage I will wait. Really what good is an electric truck that wont pull a trailer or wagons, that cant haul a load of firewood or lumber. Or gives up in bad weather. In the winter even the church parking lot had more 4 wheel drive trucks than cars in it.

[MUSTANG]

Food for thought (re: generator in back of truck or "Buddy Bring a Can of Electricity".

EV Charge rate - 110V 15 amp circuit. Charge rate = 3 miles per hour. (You can walk home faster than that if you get up and go).

EV Charge rate - 220 Volt 30 amp circuit. Charge rate = about 22 Miles per Hour. (How far from home are you when you run out of SPARKS?)

EV Charge Rate - 220 Volt 50 amp circuit. Charge rate = about 30 Miles per Hour.


All "Miles" are based on new batteries; coastal California type weather patterns, single passenger in vehicle, NOT Cold Weather, No heater using SPARKS, and Not Night so not using lights.

And of course No electric Outlet on that Tree or Sage Brush to recharge the battery where you ran out of SPARKS.

[Scrounge]

Food for thought (re: generator in back of truck or "Buddy Bring a Can of Electricity".

EV Charge rate - 110V 15 amp circuit. Charge rate = 3 miles per hour. (You can walk home faster than that if you get up and go).

EV Charge rate - 220 Volt 30 amp circuit. Charge rate = about 22 Miles per Hour. (How far from home are you when you run out of SPARKS?)

EV Charge Rate - 220 Volt 50 amp circuit. Charge rate = about 30 Miles per Hour.


All "Miles" are based on new batteries; coastal California type weather patterns, single passenger in vehicle, NOT Cold Weather, No heater using SPARKS, and Not Night so not using lights.

And of course No electric Outlet on that Tree or Sage Brush to recharge the battery where you ran out of SPARKS.

The only thing I'd like to have an electric vehicle for is to provide electrical power to the house during an outage. And for that I want a hybrid, not battery-only. Though my 1998 Chevy C1500 will run the 2kw inverter just fine for as long as the gasoline lasts. If I just need lights and a fan or two, the 400w inverter does OK. It will also run the stove top & oven, as long as I don't turn on the electric broiler.

Basically, if they want to me to have an electric vehicle, they'll have to give it to me. And I KNOW that ain't happening.

Bill

[Geezer in NH]

City toy that will NEVER go of pavement. Don't see any around the bush where I live in NH

[memtb]

Perhaps one of the few electric vehicles that makes sense......a place to place a high wattage generator and the generator fuel tank! :p memtb

[dverna]

A pick up is or was a work vehicle who cares how fast it will do 0-60. With a truck I care more about load capacity and towing capabilities. I want to know what its range is pulling 2 gravity boxes of grain or carrying a load of stone. And other chores a truck is used for. How is it going to perform in the mud the dust and the crude, fording a small stream or flooded road. rough toads and terrain, will it set corn or wheat stubble on fire ( the early catalytic converters would).

Do you have any idea how small a market you (and BTW guys like me) represent? None of my friends have any interest in an EV PU. Even if most of our driving is sedate, we still need to haul stuff, ride down two tracks, and something that works in -35* temperatures.

OTOH, when IC vehicles were first introduced, a lot of folks wondered why anyone would want to use one when a horse was so reliable. There will be challenges but I suspect EV's in 20 years will be vastly improved over what we have now. They will not be for everyone but will work well for most.

There will be a lot of "old" pickups kept on the road as a result. And I surmise the real "sting" for those buying the first generations of EV's will be the hit they take on trade in or trying to sell them.

[Baltimoreed]

Agree, as a city commuter an EV would reduce smog and being smaller be handier but as a real vehicle no way. In July ‘21 I did a 3230 mile 59 hour road trip in my Edge. Last month my son and I did a 2500 mile trip to pick up a 1970 Airstream. I would never buy one. Plus the EV makers have been very quiet on battery recycling, obviously they don’t recycle very well or at all.

[MaryB]

No thanks! I live rural in the middle of nowhere. NO EV charging stations near me! I read running the cabin heater cuts battery life by 50% now add in a noce -20f day where battery life is already half of normal and you now have 1/4 of the stated range... and my typical trip is 50-60 miles just to get groceries... so right near 1/4 of battery life for that trip on a good day... could leave me stranded in the cold!

[Thundarstick]

For a lot of 2 car families, one EV would be doable for folks like me. I only drive about 30 miles a day, but I don't think EVs are really viable yet! However, I have no reservations about certain hybrid vehicles for personal use, even in a large 4x4 truck. Matter of fact electric drive can generate torque an IC engine can only dream about. Heck,locomotives are hybrid engine/ drive units! Currently the ONLY advantage of EVs are to remove the source of pollution from the street, to the fossil fuel burning power plant outside the city. Unless we are willing to adapt a massive small nuclear power plant building flurry(I'm talking hundreds here) AND solid state rapidly rechargeable batteries are perfected we're just not there yet. Can electric do it? You bet it can! Are we any where near there yet? I don't think so!

[Idaho45guy]

City toy that will NEVER go of pavement. Don't see any around the bush where I live in NH

It's actually pretty impressive off-road...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMR6ctl-nf8&t=6s

[Thundarstick]

And it shot it's wad in 30 minutes!

[Gator 45/70]

It's actually pretty impressive off-road...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMR6ctl-nf8&t=6s

The tank turn is awesome! That would be a game changer at any redneck mud-fest !!!

[white eagle]

one thing I was wondering
with all the hype for electric vehicles and what not
how long does it take to charge one?
It takes me about 5 mins. to fill my tank if completely empty
can you charge that fast? So what if more than 1 vehicle needs to be recharged
at the same time? Can you see any problems from that?
Just not all that convenient or practical at this time in life maybe 50 or so years down the road

[Finster101]

Wife worked with a woman who bought a Chevy Volt. During the summer she would come to work and brag about not buying gas. The first sub-freezing day she was late for work. Got three miles from her house and the battery died.


There is more to this than that. The Volt is a hybrid not a true EV. The engine should have come on to supply power to the motor and charge the battery. There was a fault somewhere. I have been GM certified on them since they were introduced.

[megasupermagnum]

That's not impressive at all. It's some dirt roads, and they found a section with some flat rocks. No 4x4 pickup would have any trouble with that whatsoever. If I didn't care about the vehicle, I could get up that in 2x4.

You can blame the manufactures, but the truth is they are just making what people want. Pickups are ridiculous now. They should be required to sell you a skirt with them now. I'm willing to allow some creature comforts like automatic transmissions, cruise control, maybe even air conditioning. What we have today is embarrassing. Hundreds of pounds of wire for all the stupid junk they put in these. Even the work trucks are way too fancy. Every one has a big TV right in the console, huge center consoles for your drinks, a button performs some magic for 4x4 or whatever settings, the lighter trucks most people buy all have car suspension and rely on airbags to actually be a truck.

I'm not telling anyone how to live, but if you are one of the ones too lazy to crank down your own windows, or shift your own gears, you have nobody to blame but yourself for what has become of the pickup. They aren't even pickup trucks anymore. May as well call them pickup cars. The El Camino makes more sense than most of what is sold today.

[white eagle]

GPS is a nice option
So is air conditioning, but again you can always roll the window down
Heat is nice and defrost in the winter, there again you can always put on another coat
cruise control is nice too ,but you could always waste your fuel speeding up and slowing down
in the passing lane
its nice to not wear your hot coffee when you hit the gas after you had put your steaming coffee on the dash to defrost your window
yeah life is tough but it's tougher for some

[megasupermagnum]

GPS is a nice option
So is air conditioning, but again you can always roll the window down
Heat is nice and defrost in the winter, there again you can always put on another coat
cruise control is nice too ,but you could always waste your fuel speeding up and slowing down
in the passing lane
its nice to not wear your hot coffee when you hit the gas after you had put your steaming coffee on the dash to defrost your window
yeah life is tough but it's tougher for some

If that's what you want, then great. You can buy all the $60,000 pickups you want, I won't stop you. It sure would be nice to at least have one simple truck left, but they are gone for now, at least in the USA. You have a point with heat, you can't drive without it. The rest though, it isn't needed for what a pickup should be for.

[MUSTANG]

one thing I was wondering
with all the hype for electric vehicles and what not
how long does it take to charge one?
It takes me about 5 mins. to fill my tank if completely empty
can you charge that fast? So what if more than 1 vehicle needs to be recharged
at the same time? Can you see any problems from that?
Just not all that convenient or practical at this time in life maybe 50 or so years down the road


Level 1 Charger:

EV Charge rate - 110V 15 amp circuit. Charge rate = 3 miles per hour. 360 Mile Range = 120 Hours theoretical; but closer to 150 to 160 Hours as Charge rate diminishes at 80% to 85% charge level. Last 15% to 20% of battery charge takes longer.

Level 2 Charger:

EV Charge rate - 220 Volt 30 amp circuit. Charge rate = about 22 Miles per Hour. 16 Hours theoretical; but closer to 20 to 24 Hours as Charge rate diminishes at 80% to 85% charge level. Last 15% to 20% of battery charge takes longer.

EV Charge Rate - 220 Volt 50 amp circuit. Charge rate = about 30 Miles per Hour. 12 Hours theoretical; but closer to 15 to 16 Hours as Charge rate diminishes at 80% to 85% charge level. Last 15% to 20% of battery charge takes longer.



These Are REAL WORLD RESULTS. Our #2 son bought my wife a Tesla 3 for Christmas. (Nice son {that came out wrong - all 3 sons are nice} - he has done well at a major Silicon Valley Tech Company over the last 15 years.) Last week we had to travel to Spokane (via train) to pick up the Tesla and drive it back to Kalispell. Since we picked it up - I have been gathering Real World Data on the car, charge rates, etc...


Level 3 Charger: This is a very high amperage commercial offering similar to Gas Station concept - not home charging. Tesla calls theirs "Super Chargers". Super Charger capacity is dependent on scaling of the units and how many cars are hooked to the Super Charger stations at the site. We made a stop half way between Spokane and Kalispell to make sure we had enough SPARKS for the entire trip home. there was 49% or 181 miles left on the indicator when we made the stop. Charger was plugged in for 35 minutes and added another 153 miles of range which the indicators said was 93% or 334 miles of range. The monitor stated that an additional 15 minutes was required to bring charge to 100%.


And the issue of "Heater" on the EV Car - This morning the temp was 26% outside. Tesla has ability to "Pre-Warm" the car remotely. Without the Charger connected; I set the car to warm up to 70 degrees inside. It took 9 minutes to raise the temp from 26 to 70 degrees' and it consumed 4% of the battery charge to do so (not moving or any other activity - just the Heater/Warmer). Although once at temperature; and body heat helping keep the car warm also - I am thinking that Battery Consumption will be much higher in much colder weather and Range will be significantly impacted. Guess we will see over time.

I am collecting data - am thinking about writing a comprehensive report in a separate thread based on what we find & Like/Dislike about the Tesla 3 and EV Cars in general.

[xs11jack]

I think that in the very near future that a lot of the EV batteries are going to cost a lot of money to have someone take it off your hands. Already battery remanufactures are storing some types of batteries because it costs more to try to remanufacture them. I thing in the very near future they will start charging a hefty fee to offset the governments fees that will go into the politician's deep pockets. The first owner will be careful to get rid of the EV and thus dump the money pit on the second or third owner. Then what?
Ole Jack

[white eagle]

If that's what you want, then great. You can buy all the $60,000 pickups you want, I won't stop you. It sure would be nice to at least have one simple truck left, but they are gone for now, at least in the USA. You have a point with heat, you can't drive without it. The rest though, it isn't needed for what a pickup should be for.

mine works for me
check the junk yards for the dino you seek
I am sure you can find some in counties like Cuba or southern Mexico

[rockrat]

Don't care for an EV truck. Now, that said, a hybrid might interest me because of having a long range. But, if an EV could go 700 miles in bitter cold weather, with say a 750 lb load, then that would be another story.

[Mk42gunner]

Don't some states also charge a lot more to register these electric vehicles to offset the fact that they don't pay road tax on fuel?

Robert

[abunaitoo]

It's nothing but a woke truck. Will never be used for real work. Just for show. Just like the dems.
Let's go brandon!!!!!!!

[rbuck351]

I'm waiting for an ev that will do what my 98 Dodge Cummins 3500 dually will do. How far will that Ev pickup pull 15,000 lbs of trailer and load? I have made a few trips to AK (2500miles) with the truck with out stopping for fuel as I carry 3 55gal drums of diesel with me. Twice pulling a trailer at 8,000 to 10,000 lbs of trailer and load. How would that work with hundreds of miles of no charging stations on the Alcan? How many spare batteries would I have to load on the trailer and what would it be like to swap one of those alongside the road?

Also, I can drive my car from Eureka MT to Salt Lake City to visit my son and family in 12 hours with one five minute stop for gas. How long would it take to get there in cold weather in an EV and how many stops for charging? I don't even know where the closest charge station is to my house but I'm guessing it's at least 65 miles away.

I'm 73 now and I'm guessing I will be dead before they make a battery powdered pickup that will have the load carrying capacity and range of my 23year old Dodge. Real trucks are for carrying and towing heavy loads.

I can't wait to see Bidums idea of having all govt vehicles battery powered. Les see, battery powdered Air Force 1, fighter jets, tanks, humvees. helicopters, aircraft carriers, postal long haul trucks.

[NSB]

Most people will be leasing these vehicles. That way they they don’t have to worry about the batteries needing to be replaced in the eight years of “average life”. A home charger will replace about 1% per hour on a Tesla. The concept will work for city people who drive very little each day, and not at all for country/suburban people who drive more and/or actually take road trips. I think this whole thing will die when the reality of the electric grid not supporting the charging needed by entire communities. Reality is harsh at times.

[David2011]

Silly as it might sound, model airplanes have a very similar situation. Electric power has become very popular, especially with new flyers that know nothing about the alcohol/nitromethane (glow fuel) and gasoline engines and don’t want to learn. They can recharge batteries from their vehicles if the field where they fly doesn’t have electricity. That’s slow. Quality batteries and chargers are expensive. The high power brushless motors and their controllers are much more expensive than glow or gasoline engines. The alcohol based glow fuel is pricey as well but I can refuel in less than a minute while the electric guys are waiting a half hour on their chargers. I’ll fly small electrics but my biggest aircraft have gasoline engines. I have no desire to put up with e-power.

[uscra112]

OTOH, when IC vehicles were first introduced, a lot of folks wondered why anyone would want to use one when a horse was so reliable. There will be challenges but I suspect EV's in 20 years will be vastly improved over what we have now. They will not be for everyone but will work well for most. .

When Henry Ford introduced his small gasoline tractor with Ferguson's 3-point hitch, every farmer who could afford one bought one. Tractor didn't need feeding and currying when it wasn't in use, no vet bills, couldn't founder or throw a shoe, didn't kick, und-und-und. Revolutionized the family farm. Over a million sold, and a great many are still in use.

I'm more than a little sure the Model T displaced a million horses for the same reason. MUCH greater utility and lower costs. Neither of which EVs can offer, even with subsidies.

[Handloader109]

Mustang, I'm curious, I see where folks say these teslas only cost pennies to charge. If you have a 220v circuit at 50 amp breaker for this fastest home charger, I'd assume you are probably pulling 30 amps over the charge. If you ran this thing to fully charge, you said 12 hours.

At that rate, if you went 60 miles, and recharged for 2 hours, it would cost you roughly $1.30 From your real world, time would be slightly longer, so 1.60 roughly. This is at my current $0.10 per kWh.

So compared to my SUV which I get 30mpg, it would cost me just under $6 for the 2 gallons of gas I'd burn. somewhere near a third. So not bad, but if an area that has $0.20 a kWh cost, you would be saving a third, not nearly as much, and oh, I'm not including tax, service charge, demand charges and for that matter the hundreds or more to install that outlet.

And I'm comparing with expensive gas. At $2 a gallon, $4 vs $1.60..... for that 60 miles. or $4 vs 3.20 at higher $0.20 power cost. Makes me say it ain't worth it. And power isn't going down. Gas might, electricity isn't

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[John Guedry]

You folks in cold weather country can talk about -30 degree weather all you want and thats a valid point. However when you get down here in "the Sunny South" and the temp is 98+ and the humidity is 97+. How long will that battery power the A/C? Dont give me the stuff about rolling down the window.

[Gator 45/70]

You folks in cold weather country can talk about -30 degree weather all you want and thats a valid point. However when you get down here in "the Sunny South" and the temp is 98+ and the humidity is 97+. How long will that battery power the A/C? Dont give me the stuff about rolling down the window.

If one was to roll down his windows this year around here one would have a rolling fish tank !

[trebor44]

What happened to Remington's "electric" rifle?

[dverna]

If someone had suggested a battery powered impact driver 15 years ago it would have been scoffed at. Heck even something over 400 years old has seen progress...look at our sport of shooting. Would Paul Mauser have imagined an AR? If someone had told me 20 years ago I would be doing most of my shooting with PCP's that cost more than a good cartridge weapon, I would have laughed at them. Technology does not remain stagnant.

EV's currently work for some folks and are useless for others. I see that changing and the EV's capturing more market share.

[bedbugbilly]

At 70K for the truck - heck, I'd buy a half dozen of 'em just to have some spares if you ever needed them. From what little I've read about them, they are supposed to be as efficient and reliable as a gas or diesel driven engine and even further, the batteries will last forever 'cause the supplier will be a new battery company called "NeverReady", owned by . . . . you guessed it . . . the Biden family!

I'm sure there ARE "places" where an electric vehicle would work - but who is going to have the money to buy these expensive innovations? And if you believe the idiots that talk about charging stations all across the nation . . . at what cost? Certainly many times their estimated cost as that's a given with any government "project". And who is going to pay for it? Oil pipelines shutdown, thousands out of work - no longer is our country "energy independent" yet they want to claim that the inflation, especially at the gas pumps . . . is all COVID's fault;t.

Like I said . . . who is going to pay for all of this? The taxpaying citizen who now has to pay more each week for gas, groceries, etc. . . . not to mention higher heating costs for natural gas we have sitting right here underground in this country but can't utilize.

I'm all for conserving energy and new ideas . . . but just how much more can people afford? And I have yet to hear just how they are going to dispose of old batteries without damaging the environment?

I'm sure that some of these electric vehicles will certainly sell to those who have to have the "latest thing" and perhaps in some city and urban settings it may even be feasible - but you don't invent a horse and expect it to live before you invent the food to feed it. In the end, the cost will never go down but always go up and what is a necessity for people to have to travel to work or take a trip or vacation will become a "luxury". Heck . . . there are people right now having to make the decision of do I pay for my gas to go to work, pay my rent or ay the high cost of food to feed my family.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. So yea . . . there is a place for electric vehicles . . . but if I were you, I wouldn't get rid of my bicycle 'cause you may very well need it.

[MUSTANG]

Mustang, I'm curious, I see where folks say these teslas only cost pennies to charge. If you have a 220v circuit at 50 amp breaker for this fastest home charger, I'd assume you are probably pulling 30 amps over the charge. If you ran this thing to fully charge, you said 12 hours.

At that rate, if you went 60 miles, and recharged for 2 hours, it would cost you roughly $1.30 From your real world, time would be slightly longer, so 1.60 roughly. This is at my current $0.10 per kWh.

So compared to my SUV which I get 30mpg, it would cost me just under $6 for the 2 gallons of gas I'd burn. somewhere near a third. So not bad, but if an area that has $0.20 a kWh cost, you would be saving a third, not nearly as much, and oh, I'm not including tax, service charge, demand charges and for that matter the hundreds or more to install that outlet.

And I'm comparing with expensive gas. At $2 a gallon, $4 vs $1.60..... for that 60 miles. or $4 vs 3.20 at higher $0.20 power cost. Makes me say it ain't worth it. And power isn't going down. Gas might, electricity isn't

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


As the adult Incontinence Underwear providers say: IT DEPENDS.

1. When we used the Tesla Super Charger in Superior Montana to add range during our Trip Home; the charge was $0.28 a mile based on the Bill against credit card from Tesla.

2. The "Battery Charge Rate" from a 15 Amp - 110V outlet is drawing some amperage below 15 amps; unknown exactly what level because the "Meter" is an app from Tesla. Without having true electrical measuring equipment the Data we can extract is from the Tesla app on the iPhone; the Tesla Computer screen in the car - configuration is similar to the Cop Car computer screens at the center of the Car Console (replaces all our old analog/digital car gauges), and lastly whatever the magic components are that are sealed in the Tesla Charging Box and the Tesla Charging plug in wand.

3. Comparing what the "Cost advantage" for an EV is problematic since one asks the question - compared to what; and what price for gas/diesel? My Jeep and F350 get 15mpg with low test gas and diesel both being about $3.50 a gallon. Our Toyota Corolla gets 37 mpg. We used to drive more efficient (but smaller) Toyota Echo's that got about 50 mpg's. California Electricity is more Expensive than Montana or Nevada electricity.

4. We know the 220 Volt charger is "More efficient" as most 220 Volt appliances are.


Bottom Line - I agree that the "Cost Savings" for EV's is a problematic math model to justify them; particularly given their high cost to purchase. I also agree that in the next 3 years the price of electricity will SKYROCKET under current policies being implemented & planned. I foresee unfortunately the cost of Gas & Diesel drastically escalating also because that will be the only way to force USA citizens into the EV's as they do similar cost op operation calculations. The big bugaboo will be when they start TAXING all vehicles for miles driven. As we see less gallons of gas/diesel procured - the States and Federal Governments will see a stagnation & decline in their revenues from that ~ 50 cents a gallon they currently rake in. Many states have started implementing a "Fee" annually for EV cars at registration. The cars are now being manufactured with "WiFi" in the car; that same "WiFi" can be used by the States and Fed's to not only track your location; but to also determine how many miles you drive a day/month/year and send you a Tax Bill or Automatically Deduct or append taxes on your driving. You don't think Biden & Pelosi want an additional 80,000 IRS employees to simply look at your Tax bill as it currently exist do you?

[MUSTANG]

You folks in cold weather country can talk about -30 degree weather all you want and thats a valid point. However when you get down here in "the Sunny South" and the temp is 98+ and the humidity is 97+. How long will that battery power the A/C? Dont give me the stuff about rolling down the window.


You make a good point. What we currently have is a Federal Government trying to force a One Size Solution onto every USA citizen. Our Northern citizens have cold to consider, the South high temps to consider, and the West no electricity in the Tree/Cactus/Yucca plant to plug into. Solving the problem by putting in Charging Stations on the Interstates and Major US Highways is seen as solving the problem; but what about those truly in the rural areas (Highway 50 - known as the Loneliest Highway comes to mind).

Once again my point is that Government Mandates rarely end well and a "One Shot Solution" that is form fitted to Metropolitan Areas is a recipe for failure for a portion of our Country.

[Handloader109]

You can get a relatively cheap meter killawatt is one brand. If a 110v std plug works to charge, it will directly plug in. put in your current cost per kWh, and it will track your cost. Works well. 220v is really not more efficient, it might be slightly if you have long extension cord for the 110v. More line losses would be only difference. (except speed of charging)

Dang, your cost is pretty high through Tesla. Guess there is a charge to charge through their charger..

Even Arkansas has a $300 annual tax for EVs. Paid when you pay your property taxes on the vehicle. roughly 12,000 mile equivalent.
Yeah, the more the government can track, the more they will like it.
I'll just keep my simple 2005 F150 as long as I can.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Finster101]

Mustang, are you going to have a dedicated 220 volt circuit installed? Having some working experience with both EV's and hybrids it really quite a bit more efficient. One other question. Does the Tesla come with a portable 110 volt travel charger? Just curious on that .

[MUSTANG]

Mustang, are you going to have a dedicated 220 volt circuit installed? Having some working experience with both EV's and hybrids it really quite a bit more efficient. One other question. Does the Tesla come with a portable 110 volt travel charger? Just curious on that .

1. Yes Tesla's come with a Charger controller, cable and "Filling Handle" set up for 110 V as part of the vehicle standard equipment. Cable is only 10 or 15 feet so another heavy gauge 110V extension cord will be required for most homes; and as a contingency for reaching a 110V outlet if one travels. (BET SAME WILL APPLY TO THESE EV PICKUP TRUCKS). Same unit will work with 220V - but requires a NEMA 14-50 adapter cable (50 Amp), a NEMA 14-30 or NEMA 10-30 for 30 amp 220V service, or a NEMA 6-20 for 20 amp service. Tesla and Amazon sell adapters for the Tesla Charger provided standard with the vehicle.

2. I already have a 220V RV boxes installed (NEMA 14-50 Connector) for our Travel Trailers. I will add another NEMA 14-50 Connector Box for the Tesla as I do not want to leave the trailers with no power connected.

3. One area of concern for what I perceive as 90% of the public will be how many slots are available in their existing Household Electrical boxes. I suspect most will either not have sufficient slots, or they will at times be pulling NEAR MAX on their 100/150/200 AMP service boxes and we will see more Main Breaker Trips; particularly with the NEMA 14-50 connections or the even more consuming 60 AMP option for a TESLA Stand Alone dedicated Garage Charger.

4. I suspect also we will see potential for CAR DAMAGE due to Line Surge issues. A couple years ago we had the main feed line to the house come down due to heavy ice load. One of the two hot line feeds came into contact with the Neutral/Ground/2nd Line feed and burned out several Transformer related items, computers, and items in the Travel Trailers. I installed a 18 Kilo-Amp 120-240 Volt Surge Protection device in the 200 Amp House Service Panel to hopefully protect against such potential future events. https://www.amazon.com/Eaton-CHSA-1-Phase-Protection-Kilo-Amp/dp/B00PM8NIBI/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Eaton+CHSA+1-Phase+Type+2+SPD+Plug-On+Surge+Protection+Surge+Protection+Device+18+Kil o-Amp+120-240+Volt&qid=1639165061&s=hi&sr=1-1

I think that this could be an interesting area to watch in the future - damages to the car for surges/over voltages? Cars that cause damage to the household electrical systems? Cars used as a "Back Up Battery Feature" and potential problems in the electrical systems of either? Who will be ruled at fault; Insurance companies claiming it's outside of the policy or wanting special riders on the policy or......

292919

[DocSavage]

If push came to shove I could live with a hybrid but not a full electric vehicle. I don't put many miles on my car maybe 8 k a year. The other reason is the cost of a charging station which I believe is around $3000 especially if you want a full charge over night rather than the better part of the day with 120 volt line.

[MUSTANG]

If push came to shove I could live with a hybrid but not a full electric vehicle. I don't put many miles on my car maybe 8 k a year. The other reason is the cost of a charging station which I believe is around $3000 especially if you want a full charge over night rather than the better part of the day with 120 voltmeter up.

The Tesla "Garage Charger" is more like $500.00 and Tesla estimates an additional "Electrical" cost of $750 to $1500.00 to provide a dedicated 60 Amp service. I believe ACTUAL COST will be closer to your $3000.00 or more for most places in US. (Fortunately I have the back ground where I can do many of these things myself).

This would of course be similar to costs incurred for an EV Pickup Truck.

[wv109323]

I find it disturbing that the politicians can decide for me what I need. I reckon that with 40-50% of my earnings going to them in taxes they should know me pretty well.

[Finster101]

I would think the charger which is essentially a transformer would take the hit in the case of a line surge and voltage fluctuation.

[MaryB]

My dad was a state electrical inspector, his truck was his office. Having nice conveniences in the cab made his job a bit easier on him! He carried some tools so the box was handy plus he dumpster dived building materials that I ended up using on my house, including a full set of the cheap finish them yourself cabinets after the homeowner changed their minds and went to a finished cabinet. They couldn't find a buyer and were going to toss them. Dad knew I was going to be redoing my kitchen so he loaded them up and showed up that night and surprised me. I paid for his gas for the 200 mile out of his way trip and for his supper on the way home. I got 2x4's, plywood sheets etc from him that all came in handy! Half my shed off the deck was build with scavenged lumber that had a defect one end that I cut out.

So a nice truck has its uses for some people, dad put on 60k miles a year and got a new truck every summer when prices dropped on the last years models to move them off the lot to make room for the new models coming out.

[megasupermagnum]

Sure, fancy trucks are... well fancy. I never said there was anything wrong with wanting one. I said there's nobody else but yourselves to blame that they all cost these crazy prices. You want all the bells and whistles. Well now you've got them, and I'm sick of people crying about how much they have to pay for them. I'm sure Tesla could build a cheaper pickup, but they gave you what you want. It's a car with 4x4.

[rbuck351]

My new car is a 2001 Chevy Cavalier, then a 99 Jeep Cherokee, a 98 Dodge ram 3500 and finally a 94 Jeep wrangler. None of which have any wifi stuff in them. I'm wondering how they are going to tax me for miles driven. I am pretty good with auto wiring and can put a switch on about any device they force me to install or add enough voltage to burn it out if needed. All my cars have permanent tags so there is no inspections or new tags every year. I'm thinking of installing a diesel engine in the Wrangler and hidden fuel tanks in both the Wrangler and the Dodge and running red dye in both with a false tank full of regular diesel for dipping. I'm getting tired of the govt telling me how to run my life.

If any one wants to get an electric vehicle, that's fine with me. Just don't tell me it's better for me because I know it's not. I have hunted the haul road in AK and there is one stretch from Coldfoot to Prudhoe that is 242 miles with no services in between and no charging stations at either one. Try that in your fancy EV at zero degrees or below. I doubt you could even make it to Coldfoot from Fairbanks assuming you could even make it to Fairbanks from Anchorage (about 350 miles). We do not have the infrastructure in much of the western US to get from one charging station to the next.

Consider the number of charging stations you will need to replace gas pumps. I have hears it takes about an hour to charge a battery at one of the high output chargers that would be at a service station. It takes about 5 minutes to gas up taking up one parking space for 5 minutes or 12 cars per hour. So now you will need 12 parking spaces and chargers to charge 12 cars an hour. Now you have 12 cars with people sitting in them for an hour that don't want to wait in their car for an hour so you need someplace for them to go inside and wait.

Next we have to replace millions of barrels per day of fossil fuel power with electrical power that we don't have. Now because we still need loads of plastics we have an abundance of the lighter parts of a barrel of oil that can't be used to make plastics. What are we going to do with that, flare it off and make a bunch more CO2 or burn it in power generators and make a bunch of CO2?

Someone hasn't thought this through or they are intentionally trying to destroy the US. I'm thinking the latter as you can't do everything wrong by accident. Sooner or later you have to do something right unless you are avoiding the right way.

[MUSTANG]

Did someone say idling charges?

I forgot to mention that Tesla and other "Super Charger" locations have thought part of this matter through. Let's say you pull up to the empty "Super Charger" parking stall and decide you want to top off your 50% full Battery and it's projected to take say 45 minutes to reach fully charged - and it actually takes 45 minutes. Because of the wait time, you decide you want to go into the restaurant/microbrewery across the street and have a bite to eat and a small beer. Waiter/Waitress is slow to take your order; then cook is slow to get your order and you came back to the car and it's been there in the parking stall for 1 and 1/2 hours. You check on the Credit card bill and Discover : "Oh my Gosh" they charged me $12.60 for the 45 minute recharge - ---


But they charged me an additional $45.00 for the IDLE FEE because the Stalls were all full!!!

Tesla Idle fees are $0.50 a minute if there are vacant Recharging Stalls - BUT $1.00 a minute if the Recharge Stalls are all full and your vehicle is idle in one!!!!

[JimB..]

Did someone say idling charges?

I forgot to mention that Tesla and other "Super Charger" locations have thought part of this matter through. Let's say you pull up to the empty "Super Charger" parking stall and decide you want to top off your 50% full Battery and it's projected to take say 45 minutes to reach fully charged - and it actually takes 45 minutes. Because of the wait time, you decide you want to go into the restaurant/microbrewery across the street and have a bite to eat and a small beer. Waiter/Waitress is slow to take your order; then cook is slow to get your order and you came back to the car and it's been there in the parking stall for 1 and 1/2 hours. You check on the Credit card bill and Discover : "Oh my Gosh" they charged me $12.60 for the 45 minute recharge - ---


But they charged me an additional $45.00 for the IDLE FEE because the Stalls were all full!!!

Tesla Idle fees are $0.50 a minute if there are vacant Recharging Stalls - BUT $1.00 a minute if the Recharge Stalls are all full and your vehicle is idle in one!!!!

Don’t they send you a notification?

[MUSTANG]

Don’t they send you a notification?

Setting up the Tesla is done on an iPhone or android phone with an app. There are "Notices" through the app on status etc.. Wife has the app on her iPhone; my iPhone is a version 6 & is too old and I guess I am "Too Old" to want to replace it unless it quits working. So the app will not work on my phone; which does not support the latest and greatest "Version" of iOS for apple phones.

There are "Cards" similar to a credit card that can be set to allow a "Guest" to use the Tesla car; but they have to be at a specific spot on the console of the Tesla to allow the "Guest" to operate the car. I carry one of those "Guest Cards". So...... someone who is in the "Condition" I am would not get an app notification of the vehicle being near completely charged. Additionally; the "Bill" for the Super Charger Notice is automatically on the "Tesla Registered Owner's" credit card number held by Tesla - if you don't have a "Registered Card" on file - NO TESLA SUPER CHARGER RECHARGE FOR YOU!. The "Guest Card" will allow use of a Super Charger; but the Bills will go back against the "Tesla Registered Owners" credit card on file.

I can see some interesting challenges if your credit card is "Compromised" and your Bank/Credit Card company cancels and reissues a new Credit Card and Number. Once again "NO SUPER CHARGER FOR YOU" will occur under those conditions; and getting reset with Tesla Could/May be interesting - they have some Tesla Bureaucracy that must be negotiated form what I have experienced - Forecast similar from other EV Providers coming to an EV Buyer near you.

So what I am sharing is not complaining; just sharing with the group what some of the realities of Owning and Operating a Tesla or other EV will be.

[Idaho45guy]

Consider the number of charging stations you will need to replace gas pumps. I have hears it takes about an hour to charge a battery at one of the high output chargers that would be at a service station. It takes about 5 minutes to gas up taking up one parking space for 5 minutes or 12 cars per hour. So now you will need 12 parking spaces and chargers to charge 12 cars an hour. Now you have 12 cars with people sitting in them for an hour that don't want to wait in their car for an hour so you need someplace for them to go inside and wait.


Excellent point. Never heard of anyone mention that angle, but it is glaringly obvious that it would be a huge issue.

[JimB..]

Setting up the Tesla is done on an iPhone or android phone with an app. There are "Notices" through the app on status etc.. Wife has the app on her iPhone; my iPhone is a version 6 & is too old and I guess I am "Too Old" to want to replace it unless it quits working. So the app will not work on my phone; which does not support the latest and greatest "Version" of iOS for apple phones.

There are "Cards" similar to a credit card that can be set to allow a "Guest" to use the Tesla car; but they have to be at a specific spot on the console of the Tesla to allow the "Guest" to operate the car. I carry one of those "Guest Cards". So...... someone who is in the "Condition" I am would not get an app notification of the vehicle being near completely charged. Additionally; the "Bill" for the Super Charger Notice is automatically on the "Tesla Registered Owner's" credit card number held by Tesla - if you don't have a "Registered Card" on file - NO TESLA SUPER CHARGER RECHARGE FOR YOU!. The "Guest Card" will allow use of a Super Charger; but the Bills will go back against the "Tesla Registered Owners" credit card on file.

I can see some interesting challenges if your credit card is "Compromised" and your Bank/Credit Card company cancels and reissues a new Credit Card and Number. Once again "NO SUPER CHARGER FOR YOU" will occur under those conditions; and getting reset with Tesla Could/May be interesting - they have some Tesla Bureaucracy that must be negotiated form what I have experienced - Forecast similar from other EV Providers coming to an EV Buyer near you.

So what I am sharing is not complaining; just sharing with the group what some of the realities of Owning and Operating a Tesla or other EV will be.

So to own one you must have a smart phone newer than a decade? You get around this by using what sounds like a valet card. If you had a more recent phone that supported the app could your wife program her car to permit you to use it without needing to have a guest card?

The card on file requires a new mindset for me. Today if I loan you my car I expect you to return it with a full tank. Doesn’t quite work like that if the charger always bills the owner. Not a huge deal, just something to be aware of if I ever buy one.

FWIW, the Tesla truck is hideously ugly, no risk that I’ll buy one. The sportster prototype on the other hand is rather attractive, but pricey.

[Sasquatch-1]

If someone had told me 20 years ago I would be doing most of my shooting with PCP's that cost more than a good cartridge weapon, I would have laughed at them. Technology does not remain stagnant.


Not a well known fact but, The Lewis and Clark expedition across North America had a large caliber PCP rifle that I believe was capable of 15 or 20 shots without recharging the air reservoir or ball magazine and was capable of shooting through a 2 or 3 inch diameter tree. Point is PCP is old tech.

[Sasquatch-1]

As the adult Incontinence Underwear providers say: IT DEPENDS.

1. When we used the Tesla Super Charger in Superior Montana to add range during our Trip Home; the charge was $0.28 a mile based on the Bill against credit card from Tesla.
[/B][/COLOR]

At the current gas price of $3.35 a gallon in my area and my lowest miles per gallon, which is 13, it cost me 0.257 per mile to drive my F150.

[Daekar]

Those who are worrying about replacing gas stations with charging infrastructure are right, but only to a degree. Most folks who have an EV, at least those who live in a private residence, will barely ever go to one of those stations except on long-distance trips. I think I might use one no more than 10 times a year when my beloved TDI dies and gets replaced with an EV, the vast majority of my driving is commuting and associated side-trips, and since I will be charging at home I will leave the house every day with a full battery. Some folks won't be so fortunate, but a lot will be, which means the load on public charging infrastructure will not be of the same character as that for gasoline and diesel.

The biggest problem to me is charging standards and possible associated lock-in. I'm not touching any EV that can't charge pretty much everywhere, and I have no interest in shelling out money for different chargers when purchasing different vehicles. If my wife's truck (she'll have an electric truck at some point, mark my words...) can't charge with the same gadget as my car, then the engineers have to go back to the drawing board and try again. My money will be here waiting for them when they get their acts together.

[Handloader109]

Yeah, wow, $0.28 a mile Mustang? about $85 to charge using the supercharger on the road? That would be about equivalent to $8 plus a gallon of gas at 30 mpg

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Finster101]

I thought the charging connectors were of a standardized form mandated by the feds like the OBD II port is. If not, that would be like different size fuel filler necks on different brands.

[dverna]

We are used to instant gratification. Daekar makes an excellent point. The vast majority will charge at home every night and that will be it. It will get real old having to charge every 250 miles on a road trip. And what do you do if you visit family or friends 100+ miles away and they do not have a charging station?

[JimB..]

We are used to instant gratification. Daekar makes an excellent point. The vast majority will charge at home every night and that will be it. It will get real old having to charge every 250 miles on a road trip. And what do you do if you visit family or friends 100+ miles away and they do not have a charging station?
Uncle of a buddy has an adaptor and long cord that plugs into an electric dryer outlet. Has never had an issue.

[358429]

I think the 25 year plan for the the electric cars market: is that manufacturers and

dealers are really selling is a subscription service for trade-ins, financing, charging and maintenance.

They want it to be like an expensive cell phone.

[JimB..]

I think the 25 year plan for the the electric cars market: is that manufacturers and

dealers are really selling is a subscription service for trade-ins, financing, charging and maintenance.

They want it to be like an expensive cell phone.
Funny, I just posted elsewhere a few min ago that I don’t think we’ll be able to purchase a new car in 10 years, it’ll all be lease/subscription.

[MUSTANG]

I thought the charging connectors were of a standardized form mandated by the feds like the OBD II port is. If not, that would be like different size fuel filler necks on different brands.

Sort of:

292982

292983

and of course; Tesla provides as standard an Adapter to allow one to Charge a Tesla at a Non-Tesla Super Charger Station. Compatible with most Level 2 public charging stations, the J1772 Adapter supports charging speeds up to 19.2kW.

292984


and Musk always looking for the financial advantage:


"As mentioned, the adapter would be a small piece of hardware that you could buy from Tesla. But in a shareholder meeting, Elon explained that “we’re currently thinking it’s a real simple thing where you just download the Tesla app and you go to Supercharger, and you just indicate which stall you’re in. So you plug in your car, even if it’s not Tesla.”

It’d require a massive software overhaul to be able to connect the Tesla app to non-Tesla cars, but now more than ever an expanded infrastructure is crucial. The demand for electric cars continues to increase. And if fast charging solutions don’t expand with it, electric cars could struggle with the same issues hydrogen fuel cell cars are dealing with: lack of infrastructure."

[Murphy]

I've honestly not stayed on top of all this electric cars/trucks thing. But I do have one major question. Who gonna wash the thing? Nope, not gonna do it!

Murphy

[MUSTANG]

292992292991

[alamogunr]

I thought about posting my feelings about EV vehicles but decided, why bother? It won't change anyone's mind about them. But WTH, I don't know how things will shake out but everything takes awhile to develop. Problems will be solved. Old technology will suffer in competition with new. Some new technology will fail. Somehow things will work out, just not for everybody.

I live in a small county where agriculture is a major source of income for many. I've seen mention of $70K pickups. Around here harvest season has been pretty much over for about 3 weeks. Amazing how many new $70K-$85K pickups have sprouted up. I would probably have one too if I could depreciate it. My 2013 Tundra cost me $28K OTD. I'm one of those "city dudes"(even though my "city" is only 2500 population) who just plays around owning a truck. It sure saves me a lot of extra work around the house. Granted I don't haul big loads every day and most days all it hauls is my back end.

I'm 79 years old and I remember back in the late '50's & '60's when a reliable car or truck lasted about 75-100K miles and then just about fell apart. I won't buy a Chrysler or GM vehicle today because of the junk they foisted off on me over the years. I'm sure 2/3 of the posters on this thread don't think much of me because I've driven nothing but Toyota's for the last 30 years. Each of those "Jap" cars was built in the US by Americans who were paid in dollars and paid taxes on the same dollars. Toyota and other companies like it forced US companies to improve their engineering and manufacturing quality in order to survive.

Ford just announced a new plant to be built to manufacture electric trucks not more than 50 miles from where I live. If I live long enough, I'm going to try one out.

[Scrounge]

Not a well known fact but, The Lewis and Clark expedition across North America had a large caliber PCP rifle that I believe was capable of 15 or 20 shots without recharging the air reservoir or ball magazine and was capable of shooting through a 2 or 3 inch diameter tree. Point is PCP is old tech.

http://www.beemans.net/Austrian%20airguns.htm

Girandoni. Getting caught with one in a war zone was a capital offense, too. They were considered an assassin's weapon by the soldiers of the other countries in Europe.

I've wanted one for a couple of decades. I have a pdf copy of the blueprints, IIRC, here somewhere. Someday, maybe.

[dverna]

http://www.beemans.net/Austrian%20airguns.htm

Girandoni. Getting caught with one in a war zone was a capital offense, too. They were considered an assassin's weapon by the soldiers of the other countries in Europe.

I've wanted one for a couple of decades. I have a pdf copy of the blueprints, IIRC, here somewhere. Someday, maybe.

Thanks for posting that link. It was an interesting read.

[MUSTANG]

FLASH --- EMERGING UPDATE !!!


Continuing on the EV Learning curve based on the wife's new Tesla 3; all Testing to date is on 110V 15 Amp circuit breaker:

1. Decided with outside temps dropping to 14° at night in a few day that I should try the "Pre-Heat Car" option on the Tesla App. This allows one to heat up the car before driving to your destination. Being a "Test it until it breaks" type of person; I set the car to pre-heat without it being connected to the 110V electrical outlet. In essence forcing it to heat from Car Battery power to see what the impact was.

Outside temp for 1st test was 26° , inside car temp was 32°, the % of Charge for the car battery was 85%. Set the car inside temp to be heated to 70° and turned on the Car Preheat. Inside temp increased to 70° in only 9 minutes - but, at a cost of 6% of the battery charge (Down to 79% from original 85% charge condition)

Test #2 Outside temp was 10° , inside car temp was 15°, the % of Charge for the car battery was 87%. Set the car inside temp to be heated to 70° and turned on the Car Preheat. Inside temp increased to 70° in 17minutes - but, at a cost of 8% of the battery charge (Down to 79% from original 87% charge condition).

Seems that Pre-heating the car places a heavy load on the Car Battery system charge. My guestimation is that it cost 27 miles of range for the 1st Test; and 29 miles for the 2nd Test. Of course; the heater will continue to draw on the Battery as one drives, but will be slightly diminished by a combination of the heater only intermittently turning off and on to keep at set temp - plus whatever BTU's generated by passengers body heat. Bottom line; driving with the cabin heater on will have some additional reduction of range. My guestimation in the set conditions of the Two Tests above, plus using the Cabin Heater in Cold Climates at say 10°; one could thumbnail plan for at least a 20% reduction in range of the vehicle (or larger).

2. Circuit Breaker Trip. We were sitting in the living room watching Old Black and White Movie when the TV and lights went out. Seems the Tesla plugged into the 110V plug on the wall of the house outside is also the same circuit breaker for the TV, Internet, and Lights (Soon to be Christmas Tree). Reset the circuit breaker and TV/Internet. A 1/2 hour later tripped again. Turned the feed to the TESLA off and no more circuit breaker tripping. (TV Just Said that for ALL CARS Sold in US in 2022 - Forecast is for 5% to be EV's)..

Lessons Learned:

a. For charging EV's a dedicated circuit breaker should be considered mandatory to preclude Circuit Breaker Trips. Particularly for 110 V charging.

b. Using the 110V charging option will be challenged to keep up with Rate of Charge Requirements for Seasonal Driving & Heating requirements in the Northern US (Southern & SouthWest due to Cooling?). May work for short trips only in City/Metropolitan areas, or small towns. Doubtful a 110V is gonna cut it in Rural Areas unless trips are only once or maybe twice a week due to 3 or 4 miles per hour Charging rate on a 110V 15/20 amp circuit breaker.

c. Manufacturer recommends "Pre-Heat" while plugged into 110V or 220V charger and charger on. Given the load I can understand the recommendation; but in reality the "Draw" to preheat the vehicle far exceeds the "Recharge Rate" (i.e. 9 minutes to raise Car Cabin temp by 42°, but it takes 8 to 10 hours to recover the "Charge %" lost for that heating effort using a 110V outlet for charging.

d. Although all my efforts have been using a 110V charging outlet rate to date; this has been intentional to "Test" worst case conditions. Looks like TESLA (and other EV's including pick ups) are totally focused on serving, marketing and Selling (Indoctrinating?) the masses in the Metro areas & somewhat the Suburbs. Even they may encounter problems based on the "Factory Provided" 110V options. Seems that a 220V recharge set up is actually the "Minimum" for the average Joe/Jane to me. For some; a suitable Extension Cable in the Garage plugged into the existing 220V "Electric Dryer" 30 amp or 50 amp service is a potential but pain in the posterior solution (Changing Cords between Dryer and EV socket). A new 30 or 50 amp circuit and dedicated receptacle would be "Mo-Better" for most users.

[dverna]

Good report Mustang...and no surprises.

EV’s are not meant for those of us in fly over country and that will not change in my lifetime.

[C.F.Plinker]

It sounds like your wife's car was outside. What, if anything, does your car manual say about charging in either an attached garage or a detached garage? Those of us that are in a large city or in the suburbs may have some reservations about parking outside all night while the car is being recharged.

[MaryB]

Asked my insurance agent what would change if I had an EV charging in the garage. She said my policy would go up about50% due to fires in the battery packs

[alamogunr]

Asked my insurance agent what would change if I had an EV charging in the garage. She said my policy would go up about50% due to fires in the battery packs

Sounds like they don't want to deal with it yet. Without the auto industry, insurance companies would go out of business. On second thought not a bad idea.

[Idaho45guy]

Sounds like they don't want to deal with it yet. Without the auto industry, insurance companies would go out of business. On second thought not a bad idea.

No.

The rates would go up because there is increased risk. There are dozens of cases of EV vehicles causing fires and destroying homes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

[alamogunr]

No.

The rates would go up because there is increased risk. There are dozens of cases of EV vehicles causing fires and destroying homes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

My point is that at present there is an increased risk but with more research, problems will be solved. I don't plan to even consider an EV for at least 2 years. Maybe by that time an in home charging connection won't be necessary.

My personal opinion is that Elon Musk is only interested in notoriety and $$$$. What happens after he sells a car is secondary.

[Petander]

The concept will work for city people who drive very little each day, and not at all for country/suburban people who drive more and/or actually take road trips. I think this whole thing will die when the reality of the electric grid not supporting the charging needed by entire communities. Reality is harsh at times.

https://i.postimg.cc/RFwWhR0x/IMG-20211208-WA0000.jpg

[MUSTANG]

It sounds like your wife's car was outside. What, if anything, does your car manual say about charging in either an attached garage or a detached garage? Those of us that are in a large city or in the suburbs may have some reservations about parking outside all night while the car is being recharged.

The hard copy "Manual" is almost exclusively on "TIRES". The detailed "Owners Manual" is on a link in the App. Once again - If you don't have a newer model Smart Phone" no need to be an EV buyer seems to be the message. Interesting message for those that are let's say 50 and Older as they spend off some of their savings as they retire/enjoy retirement. But; they are not the "Business Model"; may be the Federal Confiscatory model currently playing out though.

An interesting comment about Suburbian's leery of parking car outside. Seems that historically EV charging cars have had problems with the Charger overheating and Garages and Houses going up in smoke as a fire starts. Of course the EV Market position is: these are rare occurrences and we have made necessary engineering corrections and modifications to prevent future occurrence. We put the Tesla under a Costco Canvas Garage for protection from environment. (No garage in northern house. Southern House has fairly large garage - but takes a 220V large window air condition to keep the Garage bearable in the summer = Las Vegas ares summers are not for the frail and weak.

Those in Suburbia and Metro's will have challenges as access to electricity for charging in their parking areas will be problematic. Buildings will require massive electrical modifications to facilitate "EV Charging" from home in their case. That series of carport within your MUFDU (Yeah it really is a thing - stands for Multi-Family Dwelling Units) are like the Forest/Desert - No plug Electric Plug In available.

Interesting thought: I have a variety of friends whose families like to head out to the "Dunes" in several different States for long weekends to run the Dune Buggies around the desert - along with several thousand or ten thousands of others in the same desert area. Can one imagine the number of Gas/Diesel fired Generators that are going to be needed out there in the desert to charge all those future EV Car/Pick Ups/RV's/Dune Buggies/4 Wheelers when they go "Green"?

[Handloader109]

Like the new hummer that is an ev? yeah, I would rather buy a Tesla than a hummer with expected use. I can just imagine running your generator till midnight to get you enough juice to get home. Oh, CA is banning them.... ha.

It is eye opening to see energy use to just get heated up in the winter. The grid will fail before 10% of the new cars are electric. What about the folks in apartments? ain't no easy way to charge the car at all. those that park on the streets. A lot of places have no driveway at all. .. Sool.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Finster101]

Okay with outside temps of 26 and 10 degrees, why the hell are you not in Vegas?

[oldscool]

When Brandon goes to Kentucky for his photo op, I hope someone will ask him where and when they can charge their EV.

[MUSTANG]

Okay with outside temps of 26 and 10 degrees, why the hell are you not in Vegas?


Snow and Cold is not a problem for me & the wife. 3 Years at the USMC Mountain Warfare Center, numerous winter deployments to Korea, numerous winter deployments to Norway. Cold and snow not too bad. Family is all meeting up at Kalispell house with the wife and I for the Christmas and News Year period. Sons & Wives and Grandkids all want to go skiing, dog sledding, ice skating, and...

[Sasquatch-1]

What ever happened to Hydrogen?

[sharps4590]

EV? HAHAHAHAHA!!! AIN'T HAPPENIN' AT MY HOUSE!!! Brandon and alllllllll the other globalists can go take a flying fornication at a rolling piece of pastry. I have a BIG carbon footprint and, frankly, I enjoy EVERY moment of it.

[MUSTANG]

What ever happened to Hydrogen?

Hydrogen is the most common element in the Universe, but requires the use of Fossil Fuels or Hydro Electric to get at it.

According to Wikipedia:


Hydrogen production is the family of industrial methods for generating hydrogen gas. As of 2020, the majority of hydrogen (∼95%) is produced from fossil fuels by steam reforming of natural gas and other light hydrocarbons, partial oxidation of heavier hydrocarbons, and coal gasification.[1][2] Other methods of hydrogen production include biomass gasification, no CO2 emissions methane pyrolysis, and electrolysis of water. The latter processes, methane pyrolysis as well as water electrolysis can be done directly with any source of electricity, such as solar power.

The production of hydrogen plays a key role in any industrialized society, since hydrogen is required for many essential chemical processes.[3] In 2020, roughly 87 million tons of hydrogen was produced[4] worldwide for various uses, such as oil refining, and in the production of ammonia (through the Haber process) and methanol (through reduction of carbon monoxide), and also as a fuel in transportation. The hydrogen generation market was expected to be valued at US$115.25 billion in 2017.[5]

Hydrogen is ineffective in transportation because it is derived from other principle "Fuel Sources", meaning that Natural Gas or electricity or Gasoline/Diesel - or... are required to produce the hydrogen to put in a car to drive. Hydrogen for transportation is simply the equivalent of a different storage medium for transportation fuel. This is the same problem with EV vehicles. Takes some other fuel source to "Charge" the storage medium to use as a transportation fuel. The dirty little secret of "Alternative Fuel" is they all cost more from an energy conversion ratio and a $$$ cost ratio than does Gasoline and Diesel for transportation. The Greenies and Governments have to disguise this through applying a variety of Taxes and mandated/subsidized $$$ for the "Renewable Industry".

From this site: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/hydrogen/basics/production.htm


The cost of hydrogen production is an important issue. Hydrogen produced by steam reformation costs approximately three times the cost of natural gas per unit of energy produced. This means that if natural gas costs $6/million BTU, then hydrogen will be $18/million BTU. Also, producing hydrogen from electrolysis with electricity at 5 cents/kWh will cost $28/million BTU — slightly less than two times the cost of hydrogen from natural gas. Note that the cost of hydrogen production from electricity is a linear function of electricity costs, so electricity at 10 cents/kWh means that hydrogen will cost $56/million BTU.


The shorter answer is that EV's are the current SHINY OBJECT.

[megasupermagnum]

If someone had suggested a battery powered impact driver 15 years ago it would have been scoffed at. Heck even something over 400 years old has seen progress...look at our sport of shooting. Would Paul Mauser have imagined an AR? If someone had told me 20 years ago I would be doing most of my shooting with PCP's that cost more than a good cartridge weapon, I would have laughed at them. Technology does not remain stagnant.

EV's currently work for some folks and are useless for others. I see that changing and the EV's capturing more market share.

Lithium ion batteries made portable tool practical. The key is, a battery change is 2 seconds, and they recharge in maybe 1/2 hour. I bought big into the Milwaukee M18 setup with drills, impacts, saws, chargers, even a radio. I have even run ice augers off my drill.

Would I bet my life on them? HECK NO! I usually have my 1/2" impact in my truck, and it is the cats meow in summer. In winter though, it gets iffy. Now that most of the batteries are 5-7 years old now, it seems they loose even more in the cold. I would NEVER drive anywhere without a breaker bar and socket.

That's ok. Cordless tools do what they need to do. Pneumatic is still what you want for durability and longevity. Cordless is handy. A Snap on impact gun can last a mechanics whole career. A Milwaukee cordless impact might last 10 years, less if you are a serious mechanic. The Milwaukee batteries seem like they might make it 8-10 years, which is a monumental step up from nicad.

Electric cars are no different. Tesla can market them however they want. When it comes down to it, they are limited to today's battery technology, which is not adequate for a car. Those of you thinking we are years from figuring it out are kidding yourselves. We are many decades from a practical electric car, and to be honest, I don't think we will ever get there with a battery, at least not a chemical battery.

[MaryB]

One alternative fuel that is used a lot around me is propane. Co-op vehicles all run on it and they have a filling station for others to use. Still a fossil fuel but it does burn cleaner than gas...

[MUSTANG]

One alternative fuel that is used a lot around me is propane. Co-op vehicles all run on it and they have a filling station for others to use. Still a fossil fuel but it does burn cleaner than gas...

I grew up in the Panhandle of Texas (Massive Oil Industry Presence) and Propane was quite common for powering Pick Up Truck by Farmers and Oil Field Workers. In the 1960's and 1970's it was common for Automotive "Parts Stores" to sell carburetor conversion kits allowing one to run both gasoline and Propane in the P/U; by simply turning a switch that controlled where the fuel came from. Oil service companies basically got the Propane almost free from the Producers. We used to run "Propane" John Deere Tractors (called Popping Johnies) in the 1960s' and even into the 1970's and early 1980's as Propane was far less expensive than Gasoline (Which was cheap back then) - even considering Propane has less BTU energy than Gasoline the Price of Propane in the area made it economically sound.

Current bulk user prices for "Non-Road-Use" Propane in rural Montana is $2.25 per "Gallon". 87 Octane Gasoline sells for about $3.50 a Gallon. Propane has about 76% of the energy found in Gasoline. Converting for BTU based price comparison between Gasoline and Propane yields a $2.66 Gasoline price to $2.25 for Propane. Propane on the surface looks cheaper; but if one considers the Federal & State "Road Use Tax"; the costs would be almost the same or slightly more for Propane.

Sample Btu conversion factors
Energy source/fuel Physical units
Electricity 1 kilowatthour = 3,412 Btu
Natural gas 1 cubic foot = 1,037 Btu
Motor gasoline 1 gallon = 120,286 Btu2
Diesel fuel 1 gallon = 137,381 Btu3
Heating oil 1 gallon = 138,500 Btu4
Propane 1 gallon = 91,452 Btu
Wood 1 cord = 20,000,000 Btu5


I bring this up because most of the Federal and State Revenue for Roads has been built into the price of Gasoline and Diesel as embedded Tax in the price at the Pump. Often the use of "Propane", Farm or Factory produced Ethanol not in the commercial stream yet, or... all avoid the "Road Use Taxes"; thus giving a lower cost in the comparison - BUT... the States and Federales will make changes to the Tax Structure when they see any measurable loss of Revenues. It's coming for Electrical Vehicles!!!

[dverna]

Yes Mustang...there will be no “free” ride.

EV users are in for a “shock”...and it will not be electrical....

[Idaho45guy]

Yes Mustang...there will be no “free” ride.

EV users are in for a “shock”...and it will not be electrical....

https://www.nwpb.org/2021/02/19/pay-per-mile-tax-gets-a-test-drive-in-washington-legislature-to-augment-gas-tax/

Washington state already charges EV owners an extra $225 yearly registration fee. But, the Democrats have come up with a better way that includes not only EVs, but also hybrids with plug in capability.

They want to charge 2 cents per mile.

So, that's about $240 per year if you drive 12,000 miles a year.

Fuel tax is currently 49 cents per gallon.

Trying to figure out the math to see if it you would pay more or less tax depending on the type of vehicle.

[MUSTANG]

https://www.nwpb.org/2021/02/19/pay-per-mile-tax-gets-a-test-drive-in-washington-legislature-to-augment-gas-tax/

Washington state already charges EV owners an extra $225 yearly registration fee. But, the Democrats have come up with a better way that includes not only EVs, but also hybrids with plug in capability.

They want to charge 2 cents per mile.

So, that's about $240 per year if you drive 12,000 miles a year.

Fuel tax is currently 49 cents per gallon.

Trying to figure out the math to see if it you would pay more or less tax depending on the type of vehicle.



Answer is: Your EV Tax is about 43% higher than the current Federal and State Road Use Tax!!

12,000 miles a year. Divide the $240.00 annual fee by the 12,000 miles per year. This yields an EV Tax of $0.02 (2 cents per mile). At 35 "MPG" for Federal & State Road Use Tax collected by the gas station on all sales, Divide $0.49 (49 cents) by 35 and you get $0.014; or 1.4 cents per mile Road use Tax. The STATE ONLY EV Road Use Fee is considerably HIGHER than the existing Federal and State Road Use Tax.

[MrWolf]

I grew up in the Panhandle of Texas (Massive Oil Industry Presence) and Propane was quite common for powering Pick Up Truck by Farmers and Oil Field Workers. In the 1960's and 1970's it was common for Automotive "Parts Stores" to sell carburetor conversion kits allowing one to run both gasoline and Propane in the P/U; by simply turning a switch that controlled where the fuel came from. Oil service companies basically got the Propane almost free from the Producers. We used to run "Propane" John Deere Tractors (called Popping Johnies) in the 1960s' and even into the 1970's and early 1980's as Propane was far less expensive than Gasoline (Which was cheap back then) - even considering Propane has less BTU energy than Gasoline the Price of Propane in the area made it economically sound.

Current bulk user prices for "Non-Road-Use" Propane in rural Montana is $2.25 per "Gallon". 87 Octane Gasoline sells for about $3.50 a Gallon. Propane has about 76% of the energy found in Gasoline. Converting for BTU based price comparison between Gasoline and Propane yields a $2.66 Gasoline price to $2.25 for Propane. Propane on the surface looks cheaper; but if one considers the Federal & State "Road Use Tax"; the costs would be almost the same or slightly more for Propane.

Sample Btu conversion factors
Energy source/fuel Physical units
Electricity 1 kilowatthour = 3,412 Btu
Natural gas 1 cubic foot = 1,037 Btu
Motor gasoline 1 gallon = 120,286 Btu2
Diesel fuel 1 gallon = 137,381 Btu3
Heating oil 1 gallon = 138,500 Btu4
Propane 1 gallon = 91,452 Btu
Wood 1 cord = 20,000,000 Btu5


I bring this up because most of the Federal and State Revenue for Roads has been built into the price of Gasoline and Diesel as embedded Tax in the price at the Pump. Often the use of "Propane", Farm or Factory produced Ethanol not in the commercial stream yet, or... all avoid the "Road Use Taxes"; thus giving a lower cost in the comparison - BUT... the States and Federales will make changes to the Tax Structure when they see any measurable loss of Revenues. It's coming for Electrical Vehicles!!!

My neighbor was just telling me she renewed her vehicle registration around Thanksgiving time. She was on hold for quite awhile and kept hearing the same message over and over. Regular vehicle registration is $50 (round numbers), hybrid registration is $100, and electric vehicle registration is $200. They will tax you any way they can including adding per mile charges. It is coming soon.

[shdwlkr]

didn't read all the posts but electric vehicles mileage is terrible in winter even if you can get from point a to point b. What does it take to make an electric vehicle? fossil fueled companies. How to produce enough electric power for these vehicles? What to do with the batteries when it is time to replace the old one? How many charging stations nation wide are needed? what is the charging time? How many electric semi's, how many planes? how many ships? Is our military going electric? The Greenie's just have not looked at the big picture and what we must give up to go totally green. How will crops be grown, shipped to your local store? Ok I am off my soap box as I need to find a way to recharge it.

[BJK]

biteme wants to get us all into those ridiculous electric monstrosities sometime in the future. he's such a believer that he's leading by example and he's driven around in one. Of course he isn't, he's a hypocrite (on top of everything else he is; senile, liar, bought by the Chinese, the list is very long). But he wants YOU to drive one, just not himself or the other beautiful people in power.

[Handloader109]

My dad had a for pickup he had a twin set of propane tanks that would fit under his tool box in the bed of his f150. Ran that truck off of propane for a number of years. He also had two tractors, Massey Ferguson, 90 and 85 hp that ran off of propane. No issues at all as long as you filled them up at 4 or 5% left. 1958 and 1962 models. Never had to change the oil. It was always almost pristine. Well, every 5 or 6 years... Brother still has and runs them.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Idaho45guy]

Answer is: Your EV Tax is about 43% higher than the current Federal and State Road Use Tax!!

12,000 miles a year. Divide the $240.00 annual fee by the 12,000 miles per year. This yields an EV Tax of $0.02 (2 cents per mile). At 35 "MPG" for Federal & State Road Use Tax collected by the gas station on all sales, Divide $0.49 (49 cents) by 35 and you get $0.014; or 1.4 cents per mile Road use Tax. The STATE ONLY EV Road Use Fee is considerably HIGHER than the existing Federal and State Road Use Tax.

Thank you for doing the math for me!

I imagine that for folks like me that drive a lifted SUV that averages 15 mpg, the EV tax is not as severe.

[Idaho45guy]

My dad had a for pickup he had a twin set of propane tanks that would fit under his tool box in the bed of his f150. Ran that truck off of propane for a number of years. He also had two tractors, Massey Ferguson, 90 and 85 hp that ran off of propane. No issues at all as long as you filled them up at 4 or 5% left. 1958 and 1962 models. Never had to change the oil. It was always almost pristine. Well, every 5 or 6 years... Brother still has and runs them.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

When I lived in Iowa in 1998, I had a 1979 F150 2wd Supercab with a 400m V8 and a 120 gallon propane tank in the bed.

At the time, propane was around $.85 per gallon, and regular unleaded was $.98 per gallon. I did the math and figured out that I was losing money running propane due to the lower MPGs.

Removed the tank and weird carb attachment thingy.

Might have a picture of that pickup somewhere...

293166

[Lloyd Smale]

biteme wants to get us all into those ridiculous electric monstrosities sometime in the future. he's such a believer that he's leading by example and he's driven around in one. Of course he isn't, he's a hypocrite (on top of everything else he is; senile, liar, bought by the Chinese, the list is very long). But he wants YOU to drive one, just not himself or the other beautiful people in power.

yup they want us peddling bicycles while they fly in private jets. Us to have solar panels covering our whole yard to power our small 3 bedroom home while they live in a mansion with more bathrooms then i have rooms period. Drive an electric smart car while they ride around in there benz's and bentleys. I say ride around because they dont even drive. I say any one of those idiots that wants to vote for any new green deal bs policy should have to show proof that they are totaly green themselves. By the way biden has a dirty burning old 60s corvette. Dont see him trading it off for a tesla!!! Harris doesnt even know how to plug in an electric car but wants to shove them down our faces. At least on this forum people understand. I go on one other outdoors forum that has many liberal (cant use the word or id get banned). Heck even on the dodge challenger forum I go on that youd think would be most muscle car guys theres people there cheering for an electric challenger. BLOWS MY MIND! Hope they know the electric fairy because if the liberals get there way and gas cars are banned electricity will be rationed and hands down the most expensive bill you pay. Probably higher then even your house payment.

[Lloyd Smale]

When I lived in Iowa in 1998, I had a 1979 F150 2wd Supercab with a 400m V8 and a 120 gallon propane tank in the bed.

At the time, propane was around $.85 per gallon, and regular unleaded was $.98 per gallon. I did the math and figured out that I was losing money running propane due to the lower MPGs.

Removed the tank and weird carb attachment thingy.

Might have a picture of that pickup somewhere...

293166

journeyman lineman that worked for me had a 96 silverado that had a propane conversion. It paid for a while then propane prices went up and he ran into the same deal as you. Fuel economy wiped out the savings in fuel. Might work at todays prices though but i havent seen conversions for these new cars and trucks and it would surely require a computer tune and most computers are locked so you would void your warantee doing it. Then i doubt if it would work with the new direct injection systems. But thats just a guess as i have no clue. Id think if it was possible it would be being done. It would definitely extend the life of motors because he could go 10k between oil changes and his oil still looked like new. Lot cleaner burning. But sadly we probably wont know. With biden shutting down NG pipelines and wanting to ban fossil fuels the idiotic liberals would never be satisfied with switching to propane. Heck there trying to shut down a pipeline up here and just that overnight would raise gas prices so high youd be right back where you were in the 90s.

[Lloyd Smale]

Look at this for what it really is. They want our guns and they want to control where and when we can be mobile. Keep us at home struggling to heat them and to put food on our table so they can push there agenda which is total control. SOCIALISM pure and simple.

[MUSTANG]

Someone commented on being a "Muscle Car" web site member and how many were "Energized" over the emerging EV Market. I will tell you; in my youth I had cars with a 427 engine and a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor; and a 396 engine with a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor. The Tesla acceleration leaves the memories of those two in the dust. Coming home from Spokane; we were behind a Tourista Pickup Truck towing a 30 foot Travel Trailer with all the Hazards flashing for at least 20 miles - one of those that would speed up every time there was a Straight-a-way keeping the backed up traffic from passing. I got a section of road where I could see far enough forward where I felt comfortable trying to pass; and I never before experienced acceleration like the Tesla had on passing that P/U and Travel Trailer. Not sure yet if the Tesla overcomes all of the negatives we have discussed.

[BJK]

Not even Li-Ion cells like the cold. And heating cabin air uses lots of juice. We had a Prius and would watch the mileage drop when the cold weather arrived. Loved the Prius BTW. Then covid arrived and the like China joes empty store shelves the car lots emptied out too, or I'd be driving a new Prius today.

BTW, I used to love pulling up to a match and pulling out the weaponry. People think Prius owners are all tree huggers; not so. We bought one because the Toyota hybrid system as found on the Prius just makes sense.

[megasupermagnum]

Someone commented on being a "Muscle Car" web site member and how many were "Energized" over the emerging EV Market. I will tell you; in my youth I had cars with a 427 engine and a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor; and a 396 engine with a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor. The Tesla acceleration leaves the memories of those two in the dust. Coming home from Spokane; we were behind a Tourista Pickup Truck towing a 30 foot Travel Trailer with all the Hazards flashing for at least 20 miles - one of those that would speed up every time there was a Straight-a-way keeping the backed up traffic from passing. I got a section of road where I could see far enough forward where I felt comfortable trying to pass; and I never before experienced acceleration like the Tesla had on passing that P/U and Travel Trailer. Not sure yet the Tesla overcomes all of the negatives we have discussed.

I deal with people like that all the time. I never could wrap my head around what compels a person to accelerate when you try and pass them. Highway 55 in Minnesota is the worst. Not a lot of straight sections, 60mph speed limit, but no matter what, you always come up on someone doing 50 mph who then tries to race you when you pass. The worst was one time I got behind some guy doing 40 mph, but in every conceivable passing spot, he would absolutely floor it. After taking his license plate number, and since I've driven this road a million times, I knew a good passing spot up ahead. I downshifted and floored it before the corner, and hoped nobody was coming. Thankfully nobody was, and I got around him. There's a special place in hell for people like this.

[Lloyd Smale]

Someone commented on being a "Muscle Car" web site member and how many were "Energized" over the emerging EV Market. I will tell you; in my youth I had cars with a 427 engine and a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor; and a 396 engine with a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor. The Tesla acceleration leaves the memories of those two in the dust. Coming home from Spokane; we were behind a Tourista Pickup Truck towing a 30 foot Travel Trailer with all the Hazards flashing for at least 20 miles - one of those that would speed up every time there was a Straight-a-way keeping the backed up traffic from passing. I got a section of road where I could see far enough forward where I felt comfortable trying to pass; and I never before experienced acceleration like the Tesla had on passing that P/U and Travel Trailer. Not sure yet if the Tesla overcomes all of the negatives we have discussed.

well honestly ive driven muscle cars all my life. Gas powered ones today make the 60s and 70s muscle cars look lame. My 392 challenger is 500 hp as it sits. It would whoop my ls6 chevelle which was considered one of the fastest muscle cars of the day. Now thats throw in a hell cat or a zl1 camaro or a gt500 mustang. There in a differnt universe. If your buying an electric because 800 hp isnt enough for you and are willing to sit at a charging station for a couple hours on a trip have at it.

Keep in mind that stated range of electrics like the high power teslas is for cruising down the road. Id bet you drain one down in a heck of a hurry unleashing 800 plus hp and it would take a heck of alot longer wait at the charging station then a chev spark. As to towing trailers for the price of a tesla truck you could have a 3/4 ton diesel truck that wouldnt even know that camper was behind you and have plenty of money left over to buy fuel for years. Bottom line is today electrics just are practical. Theres not enough charging stations, they take to long to charge with home charging stations and to get real performance your talking major bucks. Then try to sell it in ten years when the batterys which are very expensive are in need of replacement. Id bet you about couldnt give away a tesla truck thats 10 or 15 years old. Then like BJD said they never talk about operating in COLD enviroments. The extra drag on the drive train. Heating the inside and reduced battery power when its cold. Then we will throw in the biggest problem of all. theres absolutely no way our power grid can support charging a car or even two in every home. to do it it would cost tax payers (many that dont want it) massive amounts of tax dollars to upgrade the entire electrical grid from the (coal fired) Power plant to the service going into your house.

So when you try to justify the electrics you need to figure that most people will need a bigger service and transformer at minimum and at least for the power company i worked for for 40 years that cost is yours not the power companys. To me its about like a non reloader looking for his first deer rifle and choosing a 303 instead of an 06. Might be just as good but good luck finding ammo. Make the ammo available first then bring out the rifle and i have no argument. If we can find a cheap way to produce clean power it might make more sense. But what there asking us to do today is to pay more taxes so hippys can pretend there green. You watch what happens to electric rates when electric cars a mandatory. Look at the fact youll way all day in line to get to the charger then an hour or two charging. Just saw on fox yesterday that the average electric bill in NYC is over 600 dollars a month. I couldnt afford that let alone twice that much and that would probably be a conservative guess with the electrical grid we have today.

[Handloader109]

Yah gotta realize Brandon's big wet dream, multitrillion dollar green new deal socialist spending bill had a few hundred billion to put in charging stations. All free, at government's expense. Once those are installed, it'll be Teslas for everyone. Oh, and also included is extension of the program to give tesla a big check to help you pay for that new electric. $7 or 8 k per car rebate.... No wonder musk is a rich man. must be nice to get that free government money. That is probably 2 to 3 times the wages for each car produced. Take that away, and sales will plunge

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[10x]

Wife worked with a woman who bought a Chevy Volt. During the summer she would come to work and brag about not buying gas. The first sub-freezing day she was late for work. Got three miles from her house and the battery died.

The chemical reaction that frees electrons in batteries starts to slow down at 0F.
It is -30C outside right now. Unless that battery in your electric pickup or car is warm, you ain't going no where and you are going to sacrifice distance for cabin heat.
There is no free lunch

[DocSavage]

In all honesty I can't see the ICE being replaced anytime soon. As some one mention earlier there's no way an electric tractor trailer is going to haul supplies of various types from one coast to the other not unless there's a miracle battery tech that no one is talking about.

[shdwlkr]

Yes there is a miracle battery it is in the minds of those who think going totally green is a good idea. PS these batteries are known for massive discharge when challenged

[rbuck351]

Until they come up with a nuclear generator that weighs in under 400lbs to power and EV, I'm sticking with my nasty old diesel Dodge Cummings. Even then, how can I smoke out someone following to close?

[jonp]

Very nice. My hunting camp is 10miles off the road and 30 miles to town which has no chargers. My camp has no power, either. What use is this to me?

[rbuck351]

What use is an EV to anyone that lives way outside a large city or is into traveling to remote areas?

[BJK]

Until they come up with a nuclear generator that weighs in under 400lbs to power and EV, I'm sticking with my nasty old diesel Dodge Cummings. Even then, how can I smoke out someone following to close?

Same as skywriters do, inject oil into the hot manifold.

[BJK]

Very nice. My hunting camp is 10miles off the road and 30 miles to town which has no chargers. My camp has no power, either. What use is this to me?

The true believers don't care about anyone not in the city or that they can't control. If we die that's OK. They DO NOT CARE!

[Chaparral66]

And just because folks have an EV doesn't mean there is no pollution. The electricity to charge it has to be generated somewhere and most likely in a gas or coal fired power plant. There isn't enough wind, solar and hydro energy to make this all work. Oh, and because EVs don't use gas there is no gas tax paid by these owners. Those of us that drive gas and diesel vehicles are paying the taxes that are supposed to help rebuild our interstate systems. And they want to make tractor trailers electrically powered. BS! My son-in-law drives a big rig back and forth across and around the contiguous 48. If he was driving an EV truck he might make one delivery per week. Not gonna pay the mortgage with that short run.

[Lloyd Smale]

And just because folks have an EV doesn't mean there is no pollution. The electricity to charge it has to be generated somewhere and most likely in a gas or coal fired power plant. There isn't enough wind, solar and hydro energy to make this all work. Oh, and because EVs don't use gas there is no gas tax paid by these owners. Those of us that drive gas and diesel vehicles are paying the taxes that are supposed to help rebuild our interstate systems. And they want to make tractor trailers electrically powered. BS! My son-in-law drives a big rig back and forth across and around the contiguous 48. If he was driving an EV truck he might make one delivery per week. Not gonna pay the mortgage with that short run.

what this truely is about for biden and the democrats is people control not pollution control. The big oil companys support the republicans and the hippy liberals own the "clean energy" companies in this country. What they are doing is buying support from the left and trying to bankrupt the right. If he really cared about pollution he wouldnt own big homes and he would have got rid of his vette and bought a tesla. They pass laws and regulations without one consideration to the middle class that suffer from them. Why? because they dont have a clue how the middle class lives. You are a vote not a person to them.

[JackQuest]

what this truely is about for biden and the democrats is people control not pollution control. The big oil companys support the republicans and the hippy liberals own the "clean energy" companies in this country. What they are doing is buying support from the left and trying to bankrupt the right. If he really cared about pollution he wouldnt own big homes and he would have got rid of his vette and bought a tesla. They pass laws and regulations without one consideration to the middle class that suffer from them. Why? because they dont have a clue how the middle class lives. You are a vote not a person to them.

Those hippies don't own anything nuclear and it's going to bite them in the rump hard in the next 10 years.

[JackQuest]

The true believers don't care about anyone not in the city or that they can't control. If we die that's OK. They DO NOT CARE!

Funny thing is they don't even know where food comes from. Turn off the power, turn off the water, and any metro area in America starts eating their pet dogs and cats in about 4 days. It will take them at least 48 hours to decide the blackout might be long term and we need to start going someplace else. Except they don't know where that is or realize that the locals are armed to the teeth AND will defend their own turf.

Did the Duracho back a bit here in eastern Iowa. Think sudden (like 45 minutes from nothing to howling) straight line winds at Hurricane force. Hurricanes you get lots of warnings for. Tornadoes you get okay warnings for. Duracho - nadda warning. Opened the eyes of a lot of people, particularly the core Lefties in Des Moines, Iowa City, all those enclaves of Liberalism.

[KCSO]

Two big problems... The range is just short of my most ususal distance and here i need to run the heater all winter either driving or defrosting the vehicle. Heaven help the person caught in a drift for a couple of days.

[Idaho45guy]

There isn't enough wind, solar and hydro energy to make this all work.

And to make it worse, the leftists have been trying to remove the massive hydro dams on the Snake River for decades. Those dams account for 2/3rds of the electric power in our state.

Clean, reliable, and cheap energy. They created hundreds of recreation areas and allow cheap barging of the farmer's wheat and other grains to the sea ports.

Why do the insane leftists want to remove them? Because they claim they are harming the salmon migration.

[Digger]

And here it comes ....in the Sierra's
Last place to have an electric vehicle.
link:
https://www.sfgate.com/weather/article/winter-storm-warning-for-Tahoe-16724899.php

[todd9.3x57]

i told you that it would not work. we do not have the technologies yet.

https://www.westernjournal.com/bad-news-biden-electric-vehicle-market-may-doomed-due-one-rare-mineral/?ff_source=Email&ff_medium=WJBreaking&ff_campaign=breaking&ff_content=western-journal

[Handloader109]

i told you that it would not work. we do not have the technologies yet.

https://www.westernjournal.com/bad-news-biden-electric-vehicle-market-may-doomed-due-one-rare-mineral/?ff_source=Email&ff_medium=WJBreaking&ff_campaign=breaking&ff_content=western-journal

Nor enough electricity being generated. Just read that another hydroelectric dam out west was blocked again. Company still can't get paperwork right for the state to approve. 17 years and counting. And they want electric cars. Insanity at it's best.

[alamogunr]

I'm sure that "they" will figure it out someday. It probably won't be in my lifetime(or for those a lot younger than me). It probably won't involve elements in short supply thus expensive(lithium). Hopefully, it will be the downfall of politicians like Biden.

I would still like to have one. I don't get too far from home nowadays anyway.

[MaryB]

There are some salt water batteries showing promise... but for now they are big and bulky. And they use up the battery plates over time so will need to swap batteries.

[dverna]

What negative folks we have here. So many standing in the way of progress and willing to kill the earth for your selfish desires.

You do not need RV's or pickup trucks. When it is cold you work from home until it warms up. Amazon will deliver your groceries if you are snowed in.

We need to do it for the children!!!

[Rapier]

Son was all about that Musk PU, I asked why exactly… He runs a high stance Ram 4x4 Diesel PU that with a card change gets 30+ MPG said electric PU was just wonderful. Yeah, right. I said Go get youself a white Toyota PU in a turb diesel, like other places in the world….:mrgreen:
I asked my PH in RSA why he had only those PUs, he said, no reason, I do not care, as long as it is white, diesel and a Toyota…..So son says, yeah just like Iraq and Afghanistan, yep, just like.

[jonp]

If that's what you want, then great. You can buy all the $60,000 pickups you want, I won't stop you. It sure would be nice to at least have one simple truck left, but they are gone for now, at least in the USA. You have a point with heat, you can't drive without it. The rest though, it isn't needed for what a pickup should be for.

Standard, vinyl seat and floor, ac and heater, Cruise control is nice as is a stereo but I can always add one. Other than that and 4wd I'm good. I don't need all the computer chips and big screen tv nonsense or a backup cameral. I sure don't need to spend $70k

[jonp]

Someone commented on being a "Muscle Car" web site member and how many were "Energized" over the emerging EV Market. I will tell you; in my youth I had cars with a 427 engine and a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor; and a 396 engine with a big Holley 4 barrel Carburetor. The Tesla acceleration leaves the memories of those two in the dust. Coming home from Spokane; we were behind a Tourista Pickup Truck towing a 30 foot Travel Trailer with all the Hazards flashing for at least 20 miles - one of those that would speed up every time there was a Straight-a-way keeping the backed up traffic from passing. I got a section of road where I could see far enough forward where I felt comfortable trying to pass; and I never before experienced acceleration like the Tesla had on passing that P/U and Travel Trailer. Not sure yet if the Tesla overcomes all of the negatives we have discussed.

I've heard from people that own a Tesla that the acceleration is like nothing else bordering on insane.

[358429]

The acceleration of the Tesla is absolutely bonkers. You are pressed into the seat and imagine having to turn a water glass 90° to prevent a spill.

It is pure torque and it is all available instantly. The weirdest part is no engine noise only tires noise. The ludicrous mode is aptly named.

[Froogal]

Standard, vinyl seat and floor, ac and heater, Cruise control is nice as is a stereo but I can always add one. Other than that and 4wd I'm good. I don't need all the computer chips and big screen tv nonsense or a backup cameral. I sure don't need to spend $70k

Bingo!! Not only do I not need that stuff, I don't even want it.

[MaryB]

Wonder how happy all the battery car/truck owners were sitting in that parking lot waiting for Donner Pass to reopen after some semi's spun out and blocked all the lanes! I heard it took 4 hours...

[sparky45]

What negative folks we have here. So many standing in the way of progress and willing to kill the earth for your selfish desires.

You do not need RV's or pickup trucks. When it is cold you work from home until it warms up. Amazon will deliver your groceries if you are snowed in.

We need to do it for the children!!!

I can't believe you haven't been stoned for that comment. WAIT a minute, it is in purple, all's good.

[jonp]

Wonder how happy all the battery car/truck owners were sitting in that parking lot waiting for Donner Pass to reopen after some semi's spun out and blocked all the lanes! I heard it took 4 hours...

MaryB. I did that many times in my semi. Put on chains and pulled a few trucks out of the way with my flatbed, too. Finally decided the chains required sign really meant that I was required to go back down to Reno and wait it out. I had a nice inverter on the truck and i bet i could have made some money recharging electric cars. Heck, they paid big bucks to have people put chains on their cars which was a lot less hassle than chaining up a semi so no telling what they would pay to not have a dead car in a snowstorm

[Digger]

And as stated earlier in regards to hazardous conditions here in the Sierras ...
One thing for sure .., a lot of the 'new residents" in the Tahoe ,Truckee area are getting a raw lesson on real world conditions the last few days.
I am sure there were a few electric vehicles in the crowd here.
Story on the local paper ..
link:
https://www.recordcourier.com/news/2021/dec/28/35-mile-tahoe-traffic-jam-prompts-emergency-declar/

Wow ! , a 35 mile traffic jam ?

Also just caught this , would be screwed having an electric truck ..
link:
https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/article/Pollock-Pines-without-power-crisis-16736591.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

[Gator 45/70]

How is this Autonomous Car, Lane Driving bull-hockey working out in the rough weather out that way ?

[MUSTANG]

With the 2022 Tesla we have been able to "See" the center lines and side lines under a couple of inches of Ice and Snow on the car computer screen fed by the Tesla Sensors. Of course; I find it dubious that I want to watch the screen (mounted on center line of dash) while driving with the range of cautious to rampant idiots on icy and snow bound roads in the Kalispell/Whitefish/Columbia Falls Montana Roads.

We do not have the "Self Drive" option on the Tesla - that's and additional $10K on purchase and/or another $175-$195 Monthly Subscription rate to have the self driving feature. Son who bought it for "Mom" was driving it with me before Christmas and he kept trying to use the "Lane Management/Warning" option that comes standard - bottom line was that the Tesla "SUCKS" at maintaining lane automatically in Northwest Montana - may work in KALI; but it would sometimes "See" the center line and return the car to lane; but it NEVER saw the Right Side lane and car would veer out of lane if allowed to do so and no warning beeper as supposed to happen. At same time we could "SEE" the lanes on the screen.

[rbuck351]

I was supposed to pick up my son and grandson at the Spokane airport the day after Christmas but he was stuck in Seattle as his flight was cancelled. I ended up driving back to Eureka from Seattle on Monday. I would not trust any auto driving system to drive me on that road with that traffic. The three lane road was narrowed to two lanes in many places. If a computer could keep you in your outer lane, you would lose control when you ran into a foot or so of snow on the outside edge of the inner or outer lanes. I also don't know where you could recharge your battery from Seattle to Spokane.

[Idaho45guy]

I also don't know where you could recharge your battery from Seattle to Spokane.

Didn't you see the dozens of windmills near Vantage?? It's free and cheap energy, don't you know, lol.

I drove from Seattle to Pullman on Monday and Snoqualmie Pass was beautiful...

293841

[Lloyd Smale]

MaryB. I did that many times in my semi. Put on chains and pulled a few trucks out of the way with my flatbed, too. Finally decided the chains required sign really meant that I was required to go back down to Reno and wait it out. I had a nice inverter on the truck and i bet i could have made some money recharging electric cars. Heck, they paid big bucks to have people put chains on their cars which was a lot less hassle than chaining up a semi so no telling what they would pay to not have a dead car in a snowstorm

wonder when wreckers will start carrying generators and how much there going to charge to sit there for 2 or 3 hours charging a car dead on the side of the road. Might spawn a new business

[rbuck351]

I retired in Eureka MT from Alaska about 6 years ago so I have plenty of experience driving in nasty snowy weather but many of the folks leaving Seattle apparently don't have experience or studded tires. Although the scenery was beautiful it was a white knuckle drive avoiding those that don't see snow often.
I saw the wind mills by Vantage but I didn't see any high output chargers hooked to them or any chargers in Vantage . I gassed up before leaving Seattle and then again in Bonners Ferry to make sure I could make it home.
I don't think I would like to try that trip in an EV as the weather was cold and the charging stations are scarce.

[snowwolfe]

It is ironic, my guess is most of the negative posts are along the same lines people were saying when ICE vehicles first came about. Most common argument being where are you going to find gas to buy? As we know, this issue resolved its self.
The facts are for at least 95% of us an EV is fine. Most people rarely drive more miles in one day than what the cars battery can provide. No oil changes, less overall maintenace, and a lot less to go wrong. This is just the Tesla superchargers currently built:
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
Chargers are popping up everywhere. Any new gas/food store just off the interstates will have a couple. They will soon be at rest areas. Even in rural TN there is a charger bank at our local Sams, 20 miles from me. There is also a Tesla supercharger in one town just west of me and one just right of me. A 300 mile range is way beyond what I need 99% of the time.

I don't own a EV but can understand why many do. And most people have second vehicles they can take on long road trips if they have range anxiety. Read numerous stories where people drive 4-5 hours, stop for lunch and charge, then drive to motel and plug in for the night.

Sure, there are bugs to work out. Mainly we need many more chargers. More range would help but for most of us it is unneeded. Are EV's the answer to all our issues? No, but they offer practical solutions for many of us.

[MUSTANG]

If you have a Sam's Club nearby - You aren't living in a very Rural/Remote Location.

[snowwolfe]

If you have a Sam's Club nearby - You aren't living in a very Rural/Remote Location.

Then we have a different opinion of the word rural. Sams is 21 miles away from me.

[Froogal]

Then we have a different opinion of the word rural. Sams is 21 miles away from me.

My closest SAM'S is 100 miles away. Same for Lowe's, Menard's, Bass-Pro, etc.

[MaryB]

Closest Sams is 120 miles away...

friend 2 blocks away bought a Tesla last fall. They went to visit family on a route with no chargers and didn't bother charging off 120 where they stayed from xmas to now. Came home last night, 170 mile round trip. I had a knock on my door at 2AM, Tesla battery went dead 100 yards form my driveway. They managed to coast most of it and pushed it another 100 feet to get to where the road widens in town and about 90 feet from my garage. I had a 100 foot 12 gauge cord that just barely reached after running it 10 feet inside the garage to an outlet. They charged for an hour and warmed up, it was -16 at the time.

He under estimated what using the heater cost him in battery, at -16 it ran non stop and barely kept it at 60 inside(-16 and -40 windchill). And the effect cold had n that battery! An hours charge was barely enough to limp it home, had to warm the battery up before it could charge!

[rockrat]

I think $125 an hour wrecker fee + Generator fee + carbon fee(gotta burn that diesel fuel for the generator and truck) + mileage fee to get to where you are stranded sounds about right!!

Now, if the powers that be made a diesel hybrid truck, might be interested, but battery powered only, don't think so.

[snowwolfe]

Anyone can find reasons not to own an EV. If you have a garage where you can park the car overnight and drive no more than 200 miles a day you can find a lot of reasons to own one.
The only reasons I don’t own one is because they cost more than most comparable ICE cars and gas is still cheap enough to favor the ICE.
My son is considering buying one because his employer allows EV owners to plug in for free. Many businesses allow this as a employee benefit or to draw in customers.

[Thundarstick]

Heck snowwolfe, you can coast back down to Cookville! In a Toyota hybrid you can probably pick up a charge for the trip back to Monterey!

[snowwolfe]

Heck snowwolfe, you can coast back down to Cookville! In a Toyota hybrid you can probably pick up a charge for the trip back to Monterey!

Probably. It would be close coming back up the plateau. :)
PS: There are chargers at Sams in Cookeville, Tesla super chargers in Cookeville, and Tesla superchargers on the east side of Crossville at Genesis road exit.

[Gator 45/70]

I think $125 an hour wrecker fee + Generator fee + carbon fee(gotta burn that diesel fuel for the generator and truck) + mileage fee to get to where you are stranded sounds about right!!

Now, if the powers that be made a diesel hybrid truck, might be interested, but battery powered only, don't think so.

$150 is a nice round number.

[dverna]

Poor people can buy a 10 year old ICE vehicle and keep it running for years.

With EV’s, they will be facing a significant expenditure to replace batteries. There is no way around it. The original owner got the tax break, and relatively trouble free use. The used buyer is facing the problems.

My fiancé told me about a guy where she worked who bragged about how cheap it was to drive his used Prius. Just over a year later, he needed to replace the battery and it was over $8000.

California is unable to supply reliable power now. Building charging stations does not solve the charging issues if power supply becomes even riskier as demand increases.

IIRC GM is targeting 2035 for going all EV. If I live that long, I will be in my mid 80’s. Memo to self....”Make sure there is no GM stock in the IRA.”

[JimB..]

I think $125 an hour wrecker fee + Generator fee + carbon fee(gotta burn that diesel fuel for the generator and truck) + mileage fee to get to where you are stranded sounds about right!!

Now, if the powers that be made a diesel hybrid truck, might be interested, but battery powered only, don't think so.

Price would effectively be limited by the cost to deliver the car by flatbed to a place with power. I’ve seen pictures of wreckers with generators, but I don’t think they’ll ever become common, too cheap just to deliver them to a hotel, restaurant, shopping center, etc.

[Lloyd Smale]

Poor people can buy a 10 year old ICE vehicle and keep it running for years.

With EV’s, they will be facing a significant expenditure to replace batteries. There is no way around it. The original owner got the tax break, and relatively trouble free use. The used buyer is facing the problems.

My fiancé told me about a guy where she worked who bragged about how cheap it was to drive his used Prius. Just over a year later, he needed to replace the battery and it was over $8000.

California is unable to supply reliable power now. Building charging stations does not solve the charging issues if power supply becomes even riskier as demand increases.

IIRC GM is targeting 2035 for going all EV. If I live that long, I will be in my mid 80’s. Memo to self....”Make sure there is no GM stock in the IRA.”

ya the insanity there is there already having brown outs and CA is the epicenter for the push to electrics. At the same time the center of the push to shut down coal and gas fired power plants. Id say i fail to see there logic but its CA and when was there logic there???

[Lloyd Smale]

Price would effectively be limited by the cost to deliver the car by flatbed to a place with power. I’ve seen pictures of wreckers with generators, but I don’t think they’ll ever become common, too cheap just to deliver them to a hotel, restaurant, shopping center, etc.

can you imagine your wrecker bill if they had to sit there for two hours charging you. If the liberals take the 2024 election you would have been a wise man to buy stock in a wrecker company. There will be a whole new support business starting over this. The majority stock holders will no doubt be people like pelosi and biden jr.

[Sasquatch-1]

294038

This was on the local news for Washington, D. C. This is I95 just south of the city. Many would say that the D. C. area would be ideal for Electrics. Do you think they were going car to car asking to get warm?

The following is the accompanying article.

Drivers stranded on I-95 in Virginia, some since Monday morning, following snowstorm, officials say
By FOX 5 DC Digital TeamPublished January 4, 2022 6:15AMUpdated 6:44AMNewsFOX 5 DC

FREDERICKSBURG, Va. - Authorities say some drivers have been stuck on Interstate 95 in the Fredericksburg area of Virginia since Monday morning following a period of heavy snow that swept across the region.

Couple stranded for hours on I-95 in Virginia after snowstorm sweeps across region.
FOX 5’s Melanie Alnwick spoke with a man who was stuck for hours on Interstate 95 in Virginia after conditions related to Monday’s snowstorm made roads impassable.

Police say northbound and southbound lanes from exit 152 (Dumfries Road) to exit 104 (Carmel Church) remain closed Tuesday morning.

Crews are continuing to work to remove stopped trucks and remove snow from the roadway. Motorists are being urged to avoid the area.

"We know many travelers have been stuck on Interstate 95 in our region for extraordinary periods of time over the past 24 hours, in some cases since Monday morning. This is unprecedented, and we continue to steadily move stopped trucks to make progress toward restoring lanes. In addition to clearing the trucks, we are treating for snow and several inches of ice that has accumulated around them to ensure that when the lanes reopen, motorists can safely proceed to their destination," said Marcie Parker, VDOT Fredericksburg District Engineer, in a statement released Tuesday morning.

Parker say motorists should plan to avoid travel on I-95 in the Fredericksburg area until lanes reopen and congestion clears and says additional time will be needed to assist motorists who have been stopped for extended periods on I-95 overnight.

Parker added that plans are underway to guide vehicles currently stopped on interstate to nearby interchanges, where they can access alternate routes.

The winter storm brought more than 12 inches of snow to the Fredericksburg region Monday morning and many roads remain snow-covered and blocked by downed trees.

VDOT crews will continue in emergency response until all roads are passable.