What I've learned with Air Guns Though 55 years OR... How I fell Into the PCP Pit

[chutesnreloads]

Been meaning to post some lengthy observations for some time now. What I've learned using air guns. Assumptions
made that have been both wrong and correct. Things that worked or not and how well they worked or didn't.
Comparisons between multi pump and spring piston and the not so new anymore "Gas Spring". Expecting this to take
some time, I plan on writing this in installments. Hope you all will bear with me and hopefully we can all gain something
from it.
Like probably a majority of shooters, the first time I ever pulled a trigger on a real gun was on a air rifle. I was 5 years old.
I still remember it clearly. Dad took me out to Oso Beach close to Corpus Christi. Back then and likely today the beach
was deserted. It's a very shallow bay that gets a lot of crap washed up on it. Piles of driftwood and trash and lots of what
attracted the thing the old Spaniards named the beach for. I can still smell all the rotting fish. Oso is Spanish for bear.
Reckon black bear were common in Texas then.
I suspect Dad's main reason for the trip was to try out some handloads for his old Savage .22 Hornet but he brought
the old pellet gun too.... and me. Recently learned that old Benjamin was even older than I'd thought. Dad told me he'd
bought it used when he was still in high school. That'd make it a late '40s or more likely 1950 something model.
Wish we still had it.
Dad found a broken piece of 2x6 with a big long splinter hanging off one end. He stuck the splinter into the sand maybe
5 yards out and we rested the rifle across a big tree that had washed up on the beach. I got my 1st shooting lesson
and after shooting a while Dad let me shoot the Hornet. He was probably tired of pumping. I remember him emphatically
telling me to never pump it more than 5 pumps. I could barely close it on 3 pumps then.
Fast forward a couple years. Our family is blessed to have a small plot of land that we could visit 2-3 times a year.
I was allowed complete run of it with that old Benjamin and a tin of mixed pellets and .22 BBs. Another year or so and that
was upgraded to Dad's old .22 rifle. We shot shorts, longs, and long rifle. Wasn't like today, burning through boxes of ammo.
Can't remember ever shooting even one whole box. I remember my grand father telling when he was boy, he could buy
shotgun shells and .22 ammo by the round. Said he'd save his money and either buy two shotgun shells or 5 .22 rounds.
Was all he could afford and he assured me he NEVER fired a shot he wasn't sure would put meat on the table. And these days we complain at the cost of .22 ammo and still shoot through 100s of rounds at a time.
Not long after, I was deemed old enough to hunt deer with dad but this property didn't have a lot of deer so just seeing a deer was considered a successful hunt. Remember much talk of the "night hunters". I was shooting "real" guns now and the
pellet gun seldom came out.
Then we moved into central Texas to the edge of suburbia. Less than a quarter mile to woods as far as I cared to roam.
Somewhere along the way, Dad's pellet gun quit working and of course I had an itch. Saved up my money and when the family took
a trip to K-Mart, I bought a brand new Benjamin pellet gun. Decided on a .177 because I could buy near twice the pellets
for the same cash. This is really when my shooting education started.
Funny, I can only remember one time shooting that thing on paper. There were probably others but I just don't remember.
It wasn't hitting close to my aim. Had to put a penny under the ramp under the rear sight with the ramp all the way as high
as it would go. That penny is still there today and the rifle gets shot once in a while but not much.
Now I learned a lot from that Benjamin. Holdover and and range estimation. Windage. Shot lots of sparrows and some pigeons.
Mostly I carried it out in the woods and shot at random stuff like rocks, old cans whatever looked like it needed shot.
Never a window broken, an eye shot out, or ..... a neighbor complaining about a kid walking through the neighborhood with...
....A GUN. Can remember a time or two a policeman stopping me. Asking where I was headed and what for. Always told him the truth and he'd tell me keep it safe and I'd say yessir and be on my way.
As I got older I graduated to using a shotgun sometimes but suburbia was growing and anything that shot bullets was a bad idea.
I wasn't the only kid in this endeavor. I know I'd gained a reputation and would like to think I was the best marksman of the bunch. A good part of that came from buying myself a bow, a real hunting bow. 50 lb. recurve which I killed my 1st deer with.
The other guys were outclassed in the shooting department from all my archery practice that gave some good upper body strength. That HAD to play a part. That and somewhere I'd got the idea that missing was just not fun.
Soon I'd graduate high school and join the army. Yes, air guns were used while I was in the army but I'll stop for tonight.

[GhostHawk]

In my case it was a Sheridan Blue Streak. We lived on the edge of town. East and south it was a quarter mile and a half mile to anything. So I was allowed to shoot only in those directions. But that left a ton of sparrows and grackles on a power line some 30 yards east of our house. So while dad got his after dinner nap, I could sit on the back steps and learn how to snipe birds on a wire.

Did not take me long to learn to estimate range and learn to focus on head shots.

I have a variety now, favorite is still the old Blue Streak. But I have a couple of high powered Hatsan vortex guns, scoped.
Pair of Crossman 1322's with the carbine stock. One has a laser, the other has been shot with iron sights, Red Dot, and scope.
A cheap 40$ Chinese called a B4 which is loud, twangy, but shoots well. Just bought one of the cheap win 1100s in .177. Just starting to play with that.

I have given away 5 of these.
Beeman Sportsman Series Deluxe Air Pistol - Model 2004
Each equipped with a 10$ dovetail to weaver adapter and a Red Dot Sight. I would have at least 100$ into each one, plus a tin of pellets. Just something I like to do when I can. They are not high power units, 420 fps give or take 10. But they have very good triggers. And the automatic safety is fine if you like it. And easy to disable if you don't. :)

[dverna]

Looking forward to the next installment

[Camba]

Me too!
Some parts of that story reminds me of my story growing up.
I remember buying one box of .22lr ammo. 50 rounds of the Remington green and red box that said Klinbore.
Those 50 rounds will last several months and I used to do one shot, one kill at 30 yards to jabalinas, ope sight with a dingle shot rifle “Voere” made in Germany.
Camba


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[Camba]

One of my friends had a couple of break open spring air rifles with scope and we used to shoot doves in the afternoon in south america. We seated under a small tree hiding in the bushes overlooking a 20 to 25 feet high tree with dry branches at the top and shoot many doves in the afternoon as they landed on the dry branches.
That was a awesome time.
By the way, there was no limits on the number of birds as they are considered pests in south america.


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[chutesnreloads]

Yes, I know a guy went to Argentina dove hunting. He told of shooting more than a case of shotgun shells daily.
Maybe if they'd allow the peasants to hunt down there the dove wouldn't be such a problem.

OK.... I got into the army and after all the entertaining schools was at my permanent station at Ft. Bragg. By now air guns were no where on my radar. Carter was president then. We would go on a training exercises and be issued 5-10 rounds blank ammo. When out of ammo, we'd yell bang bang. Live fire was exclusively for qualification which was done minimally. Began hearing rumors of a stash of BB guns that dated back to Vietnam times (not very far back then, seemed at least half the NCOs were 'Nam vets).
One day we went across the street to brigade HQ and sure enough there was a stash of really sad looking Daisy BB guns. Were also these plastic face shields to fit on our helmets. Everybody got one and BBs and off we went to Area J. Not many would hit where they were aimed with bent barrels and such. Still, at close range we had little red welts to incentivize us to seek cover and keep moving. Firing and maneuvering
became more real than with blanks and both defense and offence got got lessons on interlocking fields of fire. We only did that once while I was there. Soon Reagan took office and the whole game changed with new equipment and supplies to train with. I'd also get orders transferring me to Alaska.
Think I was one the very few that actually enjoyed being there. Dad was stationed there and I was actually conceived in a trailer house outside Delta Junction. Grew up hearing Alaska stories. Having personally owned firearms was not really encouraged but it wasn't discouraged either.
Many of us kept guns in the barracks inside our wall lockers. Was against regulations but far as I remember no one got in trouble for it.
I brought a .44mag with me but quickly bought a Ruger MKII and a Nylon 66, Remember them? They were cheaper to shoot than .44 and I wasn't a reloader yet. Now the woods began about 200 yards from the barracks but shooting a firearm on post aside from the range was a regulation that was enforced..... but only by the MPs, if they could catch us. There were LOTS of snowshoe rabbits and this kid wanted to hunt. As long as nobody heard a shot and/or knew where we were we were safe and we used our infantry skills to avoid being caught. I suspect our leaders were a tiny bit proud of how we did that. There's no way they couldn't have known what we were up to. I should point out that a lot of the chickenpoop
rules were overlooked and new rules for Alaska made to make life bearable for us. For example the exact same flooring we'd had down south became "No Wax" floors. Signing out such things as rappel ropes from supply was encouraged.
So, how to hunt without walking sooooo far from home and not get the attention of MPs? I bought a Crosman Pellet pistol. Could fit it in a backpack and not even have to be sneaky getting into the woods. I should point out I'd not learned to shoot a handgun proficiently until Ft. Bragg and still learning, became pretty good in Alaska. Turns out them snowshoe rabbits are a whole bunch tougher than expected. The little cottontails back home weren't hard to kill with pellets. Of course I hadn't considered these guys were 4 times the size. Oh, the pellet would knock 'em over but they'd get up and run. This I'm not proud of but it took several bunnies and many several extra shots to figure out the little
Crosman wasn't up to the task. I did get lots of practice so it surely upped my handgun game.
Time to try something new. Remember the old ads in the hunting/shooting magazines advertising blowguns? Many had a picture of a guy
holding a big ol' dead anteater presumably killed with the blowgun. Hey,... It's an airgun. So I ordered one. Was a bit disappointed when it arrived. The gun itself was fine but the darts were just steel rods about 3' long and a string of .38 caliber plastic beads. Huh?
Has to go to the hardware store to get something to cut the steel wire to desired length. Then you heated one end and while hot slipped
it into a bead. Once cool you had a blowgun dart. Maybe from my archery skills but was pretty good with it right away. Could hit a beer can
from 20-30 yards in the hall inside the barracks every shot. Was impressively powerful, smashing in the can often sending the dart all the way through the
can and shattering the bead. Would stick into the cinderblock wall enough was hard to get out and did enough damage I didn't want to do it twice. With no instruction for hunting other that to sharpen the darts, was time to shoot bunnies. Like tiny broadheads, yes? .......NO
Oh it'd do to the bunnies like the beer cans. Stick the darts completely through the skull and leaving dents in the skull where the bead stopped.
Had to put them down with a .22. Years later I got another blowgun at a gun show just to shoot for fun. This was 2 piece take down and the
darts like little traffic cones much improved I thought and they sold these broadhead thingies for the darts. Worthless for anything but shooting at a dartboard. Wouldn't even stick into a can with the broadhead thingies on. Maybe because was 2 piece or the "cones" didn't work as well.
Had no where NEAR the power of that 1st one.
Things learned, There's a limit to a pellet gun's power. Learn what it is BEFORE you hunt. Respect it. I'm sure if I'd had one my springers or even a
Benjamin multi pump in .22 the story would be different.
Next installment when I get to it.

[358429]

I am enjoying your story chutesnreloads. I taught myself basic pistol marksmanship

with a crosman 1377 shooting at stink bugs at 25 feet. Pop-Splat!

[clodhopper]

Why do stink bugs smell so bad?
So the blind can enjoy them too.

[chutesnreloads]

Enter the spring piston and enter the chronograph.
Fast forward a few years. Due to a move I had lots of fishing opportunity and not so much for shooting except the occasional trip to a range.
Oh there was a little shooting pellets in the apartment. One the nice things of living around a lot of "save the planet" types was the huge
pile of phone books at the designated recycle area. I really recycled quite a few. Not only are they superb pellet stoppers, they also make excellent wet paper media for conventional bullet testing.
Became buddies with a new guy at work who then got me more interested in shooting which lead to reloading. Then I learn he's and air
gun aficionado. He had lots of cool toys one being a CO2 powered shotgun made in the Philippines. I got interested in these "magnum"
spring piston rifles. Liked the idea of one stroke and it's ready to shoot. Being nearly as powerful as a .22 long rifle added to the want one factor. I know what you're thinking. I know now they are no where near as powerful as that but will come back to it later.
There was a gun shop in town that had some nice Beemans but they were a bit beyond my budget. These were days before I'd any experience with internet and was familiar with mail order. My buddy introduced me to an outfit that specialized in air guns and I ordered one of the fairly new Beeman entry level guns. When it came we learn it was made in Spain. Again I chose .177 for same reasons as I had as a teen. As this is going on, I'm making more frequent trips to the family farm, a bit over an hour's drive, to hunt and play with my reloadable heavy barreled Savage Model 10FP in .223. I have these insane ideas of hunting crow with an air gun.
This outfit I ordered my pellet rifle from of course sent me their catalogue. In it they sold books. One in particular was a book of formulas....
to calculate trajectory, a pellets BC, velocity at a given range, and more. All that it didn't have was a chronograph needed to start working the formulas. So I sent off for the book and an F1 Chrony. Remember them?
Wow, if only my school teachers had known they could interest me in this stuff..... I may have been an outstanding algebra student.
I'd already been schooled on why the 1000 fps rated gun wouldn't be shooting that fast but still was a let down to see just how much slower.
I'd also ordered a fair sampling of pellets in order to see what my gun would shoot best.
Oh the misconceptions of the partially educated. How the book knowledge stacks up against the real world. First big eye opener was learning
in terms of accuracy, even my best shooting pellets wouldn't be accurate enough beyond 30 yards if there were ANY wind. I'd read that heavier
pellets were desirable for hunting/long range because they carried more muzzle energy and had a higher BC and they will do both BUT....
The energy part only applies IF the pellet is going fast enough. My rifle wouldn't shoot the heavier pellets fast enough to give higher ME than
the lighter faster ones. Oh, but wait, the higher BC makes them catch up a bit farther down range so they're still better right? A little more algebra and yes indeed the heavies catch up to the lighter ones out a little past 50 yards. And we're only accurate enough to hunt to 30 yards at best. As an aside, with a blind and crow and owl decoys, I was able to get one crow close enough for a shot but only on my first time out.
Couple years later, Now, I've left the big city have a real yard and only 30 minutes from the farm. With a pecan tree in the yard, now I have a
real use for an air rifle. This little town probably averages a pecan tree for every two yards this not counting the acorns or walnuts here and there. We have a LOT of squirrels. My .177 springer was getting it done but not even close to the performance of a .22 long rifle which of course is a no no in town and should be. Air guns on the other hand are quite legal here as long as the projectile does not leave my property. This includes inside a squirrel. Quick kills are imperative. Care must be taken where and where not to shoot. Ideally all shots would be taken on squirrels on the ground and never a botched shot. Ideally. Sometimes heart/lung shots are needed because leaves/limbs are in the way. They almost always run at least a bit. Since I'm only perfect on Tuesdays sometimes I botch a shot either my fault or the squirrel moves as the trigger breaks. Nice thing about springers is they're fairly quick to reload. With a little experimenting I learn the heavier pellets seem to kill quicker than the lighter ones despite what the math says. Still, I'm finding a need for follow up shots are getting higher than I'd like. Enough I finally set up a paper target and shoot groups. The gun is not as accurate as it was. Cleaning, checking stock screws, trying different pellets, a different scope. Just not accurate enough. So, we're in the market for a new gun. By now I've been reading at Castboolits a number of years
and thinking upping to 22 caliber is a good choice. Soon a local store advertises the Benjamin Nitro Piston on sale and I tell the wife if they have one in .22 I'd buy it. They did and I did. Along with a few different tins of pellets. Got home and ordered more pellets now off the internet.
Replaced the crappy scope it came with to the good one I'd determined was not the cause of inaccuracy on the old springer.
Out comes the crony and we start testing pellets. Nice to find velocity wise, it's shooting as I'd expected and I'm pleased with that.
Quickly find the Crosman pellets so widely available give only mediocre accuracy. the Crow Magnum pellets with the big hollow point shoot fairly well, 3rd best. Because of time spent here at CB I now understand benefits if a large metplat and so try something I'd never considered with the old .177, the wadcutter pellet. Turns out two wadcutters are the two top performers accuracy wise. RWS Meisterkugeln and the JSB wadcutter. The RWS significantly more accurate.
I don't care what anyone claims about the killing power of a .177 pellet. Yes they'll work but there is absolutely no comparison how much better the .22 caliber is on squirrels. I've killed my share of squirrels with a .22 rimfire and there is no comparison the power between a rimfire and a .22 air gun but.... The wadcutter pellets from a "magnum" springer may actually kill quicker at 30 yards or less than the rimfire. I'm suspecting the larger metplat along with dumping all its energy in the varmint has a lot to do with it. Exit wounds with the .22 pellet is rare less even than the .177.
An observation on the hollow point pellet. Been in this squirrel haven now over 16 years, With pecan and peach trees in the yard I think I've enough experience to speak. Pellets are usually easy to find on body shots, just under the hide on the far side. A quick cut with a pocket knife
and there's your ballistic proof. The hollow point pellet at even "magnum" springer velocities do not expand in squirrels. They just don't. Often they look like you could just load them back in the gun and shoot it again. If you compare it with an unfired pellet you can often see the recovered one is a teeny bit shorter and fatter. They are sometimes a little deformed, NOT expanded, if they hit bone. Headshots show this more than body shots. Conclusion, Unless your gun shoots the hollow point most accurately, don't waste your money on them. I've not tried the high dollar polymer tip ones as I'm pretty certain they'll behave same as regular hollow points. If anyone has tried them and found I'm wrong,
I'd like to hear. Maybe the more powerful PCPs will add enough velocity to change that. We'll see soon since I recently got one.
Before I bought the PCP, I went more old school and bought a new .22 multi pump . A Benjamin 392 with scope attachment.
Why and what I learned from it in the next installment

[dverna]

Enjoying this buddy!

Real world experience is so valuable.

[sparky45]

I'm in the process of making my own mold for 25 cal. slugs. Should have it done by the first of the year. I shoot a Air Venturi Avenger and it's been very accurate but I haven't tried slugs in it yet.

[dverna]

I'm in the process of making my own mold for 25 cal. slugs. Should have it done by the first of the year. I shoot a Air Venturi Avenger and it's been very accurate but I haven't tried slugs in it yet.

Looking forward to that report!!. Been thinking of adding something bigger than the .22. But pellets for the .25's are running $.07 each and the .30's about $.12 each. At that price casting starts to get attractive if the accuracy is there.

[frogleg]

I’m hooked , I am enjoying the read very much , as I have been shooting my air guns a lot more lately, and I have A Benjamin 392 also.

[jeepyj]

marked. I'm at work and probably not in my best interest to read the entire thread now, but has got my interest

[centershot]

Aaaahh, the Benjamin 392, many fond memories there! If you never had one as a kid, just buy one! I promise, you won't be sorry!

[Rookandrabbit]

chutesnreloads thank you really enjoyed reading about your shooting experience. Looking forward to your next instalment. Air weapons are freely available here in England under 12 foot pounds of energy without a license. My father also taught me to shoot. He was a veteran of World War Two. He taught me to respect weapons having seen directly what they are capable of. I started out with an air pistol a Webley and a Daisy Powerline,in our back garden with a safe backstop under his supervision. Graduated to several air rifles then into firearms section one and two in the UK. BUT now I am finding the joy of PCP air rifles and it is amazing how they have progressed in quality and superior accuracy. Whilst reading your experience it brought back the memories of my father and how
Patient he was with the eager young boy who thought he knew it all. Thank you again ….. awaiting your next instalment Cheers Rookandrabbit.

[chutesnreloads]

Going backwards? More "old school"?
Along with all the enablers and other bad company I expose myself to on this site I must confess to spending way too much
time watching Youtube videos. Couple videos showed up about the same time on Youtube's "you may want to watch this" string.
"How to get an old multi pump gun shooting again". Now the old Benjamin discussed earlier in this thread had been sitting out
in the shed for a number of years, It just wasn't holding air. Messed around with it as per the video instructions and guess what?
It shoots again! Not especially accurate but then my eyes just don't see the iron sights like they used to either. I remember seeing
a scope mount for the Benjamins and thinking it'll shoot better with more usable sights. I set about getting a mount. Aw shucks...
the mounts only work on the old Sheridans and the newer model Benjamins. Oh well. My granddaughter is just getting old enough
to be corrupted learning to shoot. The old Benji with iron sites may be a good start. Was for me.
Back to Youtube and now all these videos on multi pump air guns are showing up in my list. The newer Benjamins I see are more
powerful than I'd thought and plenty accurate, Hmmmmmmm... Also I see videos on the Crosman 1377/1322 Multi pump
pistols. Remember, like I had in Alaska? Oh, and a convenient shoulder stock can be had for them. Probably even better to
teach the little girl with, right? It's much lighter and shorter than the old Benji. So, grandpa has a new rifle coming with scope mounts
and a new 1377 with a shoulder stock. Unfortunately the stock is still TOO long for her to handle well.
The new Benjamin 392. It just feels better than my "old" now gas spring gun. I never cared for the feel of that gun and still not pleased with the trigger. It breaks scopes so gets limited "fun" shooting.... it's just not a pleasing gun to shoot despite how useful it's been eradicating
squirrels. Out of the box I find the new 392 shoots pretty well with the iron sights. Dang, now I need to find a new excuse for not
shooting well with iron sights.
The scope gets mounted and zeroed. Out comes the chronograph and good assortment of pellets. Just an aside... I've never understood why folks can't collect chronograph data and shoot for accuracy at the same time. Won't the chrony data be at least a little more accurate
if shot from a solid rest and at all the same aiming point? May as well see how well the pellet/load combination shoots on target at the same time, right? Just one those things irritates me.
Right away it's cool to be able to watch the pellet in flight and observe hits due to no recoil. Did I mention lack of hold sensitivity being
one more excuse for the new rifle? I quickly find it's shooting very well with the same wadcutter pellet the gas springer liked best..... but
that's about it. Lord have mercy this thing is pellet finicky. I can see through the scope pellets veering off like a well thrown curve ball.
A couple even fly in a spiral trajectory, Wow. But it sure puts those RWS wadcutters where I want them.... every time.
Power:
I never realized just how powerful the Benjamin/ Sheridan rifles were. Oh I knew they'd kill squirrels and rabbits but now I have hard chronograph data I can compare with my "magnum" springers. Only 20 to 60 FPS less than my gas springer. And looking at the data
I notice something else. As the pellet weights increase the difference in velocity between the two rifles decreases. That's right, the heaviest pellets were only 20 fps slower than the "magnum" springer. Too bad they're not accurate.
Another misconception shattered. All these years I've owned a chronograph I've "known" the heavier pellets, while having a higher BC
can't be shot fast enough to out perform, at least on paper, the energy of the faster lighter pellets until they were way past any useful
shooting distance. Well, the 392 shoots the heavy pellets at a higher muzzle energy at the start. Different systems different results.
Or, Now I'm wondering if some springers also perform this way too and it's only the few I've tested that do this.
So, I'm enjoying the new 392. Its fun to watch the pellets in flight and see hits. Its accurate with the pellet it likes. Another interesting
feature is the trajectory is almost identical to my gas springer. I think because even though it's 60 fps slower the mounts are higher
and so the trajectories match pretty close until it gets very short range. I've not tried out past 30 yards to se how they match up.
It was also quite easy to disassemble and slick up the trigger. Wasn't an atrocious trigger but it was too stiff. Compared to the old '70s model Benji it was terrible and that trigger never had any work on it. Can't remember how the old Benji trigger was new and was probably too ignorant to notice back then. It may have cleaned up over the years with God only knows how many pellets it's had through it. I know my kid brother used it plenty while I was off playing army.
So why am I wanting another air rifle to replace it? And what to replace it with?

1) It is incredibly finicky about pellets. I've found only two other pellets that shoot acceptably but only just. Hopefully not all 392s
are like this. Never seen it mentioned in forums or in videos. Maybe its just mine.

2) It is much slower to load and although it is an effective squirrel killer, when a quick follow up shot is necessary that ain't happening.
As much as we all hate to admit it, we are all guilty of poor shot placement sometimes for many different reasons. It's just part of shooting/hunting. That alone is reason to sideline it as the preferred critter getter.

3) I have never once heard a neighbor complain about my backyard shooting. While I never thought nobody knew, it just wasn't a concern.
The 392 is louder than my gas springer with its shroud. I wouldn't even considered it except for one event. The neighbors were out back drinking smoking and joking while I was shooting targets. I have an excellent backstop so not in the least worried about hitting anything I shouldn't but then right after a shot, I hear one of then say loudly "Oh, he shot me". As I said my backstop is good and wasn't even shooting their direction. I knew he was only joking around but still, that's the first and only acknowledgement of my activities has been made.
A good reason to quiet it down.

4) I get tired pumping this thing entirely too soon for fun shooting

5) The mounts for the optics are just too high. It's nifty to have a scope mounted on it but I'd really prefer them a bit lower.
There are two other mounting systems out there I know of and maybe one of those is lower but I doubt by much.

So, by now I'm considering a replacement. Options are a high end springer. A rifle that'll be a joy to shoot. A rifle with minimal
fuss maintenance wise and every thing but pellets self contained. But I'm enamored with the zero recoil thing. It's just so cool.
Or an affordable PCP. It will have to start life using a hand pump. It should be popular enough I can easily find information
for keeping it working as I'm sure it will require more maintenance than I'd like. Power is not an issue. Matching what I have will be
more than acceptable. All the PCPs I've looked into are more powerful but can be tuned somewhat to higher or lesser power
for better performance, more shots per fill or higher power.

[dverna]

I found the RWS springer I had was a bit of a workout...YMMV. But for sure it is awkward to shoot off a bench.

I have never used a side lever but that might be an option....at least less awkward shooting at a bench.

I have two PCP rifles and they are easy to shoot, but I do not use a hand pump. There are some YouTube videos of young men pumping up PCP’s...worth watching...certainly convinced me a hand pump would not be acceptable for the amount of shooting we will be doing. If going down the hand pump route, .177’s will get more shots per fill.

BTW, I have a chronograph and never used it for testing pellets. From what I have seen, reading what others have tested, PCP guns do not exhibit large swings in ES or SD like we see in powder burners. I use multiple five shot groups to evaluate pellets and establish accuracy. “Bad” pellets show up in one or two groups...BTW, they are not “bad” but a barrel may not like them. I cannot tell if a certain pellet groups poorly due to ES...but it does not matter...not much I could do to correct it. I am not going to weight sort, inspect pellets with a loupe, and/or put them through a sizing operation....for plinking and small varmints. I am holding groups under 1” at 50 yards with a handful of different pellets so no need to get anal for my needs.

I think long term you will be happier with a PCP and air tank. Some decent guns under $400 but the $600 tank kills PCP’s for folks that will not be shooting a lot. Another option is CO2. Not great for shooting in cold temperatures and higher cost per shot.

[chutesnreloads]

You are correct about the air guns and chronograph. By now I've come to understand the chronograph readings and what is learned
from it are more a math equation on paper than real world application. I have the chronograph so use it, now more to compare
power compared to manufacturers stated claims and against other known air guns. I plan to post chronograph numbers collected by the end of all this. I think it may be useful to some new at this to decide on purchases and to not be disappointed with what they do get.
After making inquiries elsewhere it appears my hopes of using a sizer to get more variety in useful pellets will not pan out.
I'd hoped a couple pellets in particular could be made to shoot without the wild fliers that mess up what appears to be nice groups.
From what I've learned the sizer helps those benchrest types wanting to shave a fraction off the itty bitty groups they are already shooting.
No help to the rest of us average folk.
BTW, I'm sure I spend less time "fun" shooting than others so I've not found the hand pump to be such a burden. However I do plan on getting either a tank or compressor eventually. For me, once I've found what a gun likes to be fed, I'll set up targets at known distances and shoot
a few groups to confirm zero and see that yes, I can still do that. Or set up targets at unknown random distances (rather I shoot from random unknown distances) to learn where a particular pellet/load combination hits at different distances so I will know proper hold over/under to
place my shots where needed. This latter is particularly helpful with springers to know what happens with different shooting positions as we
know they can be quite hold sensitive. A lot of practice initially but later pays off taking guess work out of making clean shots on critters

[mobilemail]

I went down the airgun rabbit hole during the last rimfire ammo shortage a few years ago. Squirrel hunting with an airgun is, in my opinion, the right tool for the job!

As for the PCP air charge dilemma... I have one of those $600 tanks you mention. The challenge after you get the tank is finding an air source like a dive shop or paintball store that will actually fill it to 4500psi. I was fortunate to find a dive shop about 70 miles away in St. Charles MO that would do this at a very reasonable price, and would stop by when I went through on work trips. About three years ago, inexpensive chinese air compressors came available that made PCPs more available to somewhat mechanically inclined folks. If you are one of those folks, it might be worth looking into, they usually sell for $250-300.

The Benjamin Maximus is an entry level PCP that you only fill to 2000PSI. You can buy a much less expensive 3300PSI aluminum scuba tank to fill these, it's just much less portable. And the Maximus is a single shot.

If you haven't found them already, there are a couple of good airgun forums that can aid your learning curve considerably on all things airgun:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=forum
https://www.airgunnation.com/

[dverna]

You are correct about the air guns and chronograph. By now I've come to understand the chronograph readings and what is learned
from it are more a math equation on paper than real world application. I have the chronograph so use it, now more to compare
power compared to manufacturers stated claims and against other known air guns. I plan to post chronograph numbers collected by the end of all this. I think it may be useful to some new at this to decide on purchases and to not be disappointed with what they do get.
After making inquiries elsewhere it appears my hopes of using a sizer to get more variety in useful pellets will not pan out.
I'd hoped a couple pellets in particular could be made to shoot without the wild fliers that mess up what appears to be nice groups.
From what I've learned the sizer helps those benchrest types wanting to shave a fraction off the itty bitty groups they are already shooting.
No help to the rest of us average folk.
BTW, I'm sure I spend less time "fun" shooting than others so I've not found the hand pump to be such a burden. However I do plan on getting either a tank or compressor eventually. For me, once I've found what a gun likes to be fed, I'll set up targets at known distances and shoot
a few groups to confirm zero and see that yes, I can still do that. Or set up targets at unknown random distances (rather I shoot from random unknown distances) to learn where a particular pellet/load combination hits at different distances so I will know proper hold over/under to
place my shots where needed. This latter is particularly helpful with springers to know what happens with different shooting positions as we
know they can be quite hold sensitive. A lot of practice initially but later pays off taking guess work out of making clean shots on critters

You are right about springers being hold sensitive. Another reason I got rid of mine. My little pea brain could not handle different hold points for different set ups. Not a big deal plinking at a plate off hand, but I use different ways to steady the gun when shooting critters.

Great to hear you can handle a hand pump as that is the cheapest way to shoot. I envy you. My old body is not up to it. Be wary of the cheap electric pumps if you decide to buy one. Mixed reviews on many of them.

If you are looking at an entry level PCP, I am averaging sub 1" groups at 50 yards with the DAR. It is just as quiet, if not quieter, than my moderated Daysate.
https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/products

I have heard good things about the Avenger as well:
https://www.airgundepot.com/air-venturi-avenger-air-rifle.html#AGD-513610278

You do not need to spend $1000 to get a decent PCP rifle. I found spending some time at the Gateway to Airguns forum very helpful. Like this site, I prefer to hear from real people about how their guns perform instead of what gets published by the gun rags. But same "issues" there as on this site...folks who post a "wallet' group and do not share the whole story. After a few weeks you know who to listen to. When I wanted to tune the trigger on the DAR, I got good advice.

Looking forward to seeing what you end up and your report. Your granddaughter will have a blast!!! Never met a kid that did not like to shoot.

[chutesnreloads]

One item left out about the 392. I'd had the idea loads could be worked up like with powder burners. More pumps = more powder.
To find the sweet spot as far as accuracy. Possibly because only one pellet was worthy of measuring its groups that didn't pan
out. All measured groups regardless of velocities were pretty much the same. The groups changed impact vertically is the only real
change. It would take a LOT of shooting and measuring to find a difference and at the longest distances this pellet can be used,
it isn't enough difference to make a difference.
By now I've got a aluminium breech on the 1377 and mounted a scope. This one is'nt so pellet picky. The cheap daisy wadcutter shoot
well at maximum (10) pumps but only so so at 4. The RWS wadcutters on the other hand shoot better at 4 pumps than at max and these are again the most accurate pellet with the Crosman Premiers a strong second. The Premiers are little affected by number of pumps

[chutesnreloads]

As I was deciding on the new rifle, I picked up a nice new scope for the gas springer and another new pellet to try in it and the Benji 392.
After hearing good things about the Hawke Airmax line as far as holding up to heavy recoiling springers I got a 4x12x40.
The new pellet is the H&N Field Target Trophy at 14.66 grains. While the 392 initially looked like a nice group although way off to the
left, after enough shots, again I'm getting a few into a great group with a few to half into wild unexplained flyers. The gas springer
on the other hand loves them. Nearly as good groups as its favorite wadcutter at 20 yards. I find a calm enough day to take it out to
50 yards. Finally getting decent groups at 50 yards. But does it need some hold over! Much past 30 yards and accurate range measurement
is a must. I just can't see using it any differently than I have been, critter control at 30 yards or less. Shooting any farther will be just
for fun for the most part. The scope is nice. Very clear glass and a nice and wider field of view than I'd been used to. The AMX reticle
I have likes and dislikes. The reticle is very fine lined which is great shooting paper but can get kinda lost shooting at critters up in
a bunch of shady brush. Overall, I like it though.
Time to get serious about the new rifle. By now I've pretty much decided to go the PCP route. But I have concerns and here they are:

Will it hold air for extended periods? Remember this is mainly a back yard pest control rifle. Like the springer I should be able to just pick it up cock it and be ready to shoot. The springer I keep a pellet in the chamber but uncocked. I will expect enough air for at least two reliable shots.
More is better.

I really want a better trigger than I've dealt with on the budget friendly springers. It needn't be a match trigger but it must be significantly better.

I'll start out using a hand pump so concerned about how hard it will be to pump and how many shots per fill.

Lastly I'm concerned how much maintenance will be required to keep it working as advertised.

I decided on a .22 Umarex Origin. I've seen some good reviews and it's fairly simple design seems like a good 1st PCP.
Even better, it comes with a pump. While not expecting to need to use them, it's reputed to shoot slugs accurately.
I've had it for a month now and so far not displeased with it at all. It will take time to test and learn the ins and outs.
Think a new thread is needed as I evaluate the new rifle. I do want to make at least one more post here giving chronograph
records of the different guns. It may be helpful to a few for comparisons. I'll try and get that posted soon

[mobilemail]

I blew up a Hawke vantage scope on a Diana 48 magnum springer. Hawke was very prompt on repairing and returning the scope, I would highly recommend them based on their customer service. And the Airmax is indeed a much better choice for a powerful springer.

[chutesnreloads]

Some Chronograph data just for comparison for those interested in numbers:

Keep in mind these were gathered over a 24 year time span with two different chronographs. When the second chrony was first set
up I did run some of the same pellets from same guns over it and they were right in the same ballpark.

1970's vintage Benjamin model 347 in .177. @ Ten pumps
Marksman 7.1 grain Wadcutter Hollow point: Average velocity 639 fps ME 6.43 ft. lbs.
By this time the rifle was at least 20 years old. Was probably more powerful new. Still pretty accurate though

Crosman 1377. This was the pellet pistol I used in Alaska with not so good success 18 years old now
Marksman 7.1 grain HPWC : Average with 10 pumps 511 fps ME 4.11 ft. lbs

Beeman GS 1000 .177
This was a Spanish made entry level spring piston rifle rated at 1000 fps
Marksman 7.1 grain HPWC Average velocity 844.7 fps ME 11.25 ft. lbs.
Crosman Premier 7.9 grain 794.2 fps 11.06 ft. lbs. * Most Accurate
Crosman Premier 10.5 gr. 649.9 fps 9.85 ft. lbs.
Beeman Kodiak 10.6 gr. 660.14 10.25 ft. lbs.
Beeman Crow Magnum 8.8 gr. 757.12 11.20 ft. lbs.


Benjamin Nitro Piston "gas spring" .22
RWS Wadcutter 14 gr. Average Velocity: 714 fps. 15.85 ft. lbs. * Most Accurate Pellet
H&N Crow Magnum 18.2 gr. 610 fps. 15.04 ft. lbs.
Crosman Premier 14.3 gr. 695 fps. 15.35 ft. lbs.
Beeman Kodiak 21.14 gr. 567 fps. 15.09 ft. lbs.

Benjamin 392 .22
RWS Wadcutter 14.0 gr. 6 pumps 595.5 fps. 11.04 ft. lbs.
8 pumps 640.3 fps. 12.74 ft. lbs.
Crosman Premier 14.3 6 pumps 585 fps. 10.64 ft. lbs.
8 pumps 634 fps. 12.76 ft. lbs.
H&N Crow Magnum 18.2 gr. 6 pumps 535 fps. 12.20 ft. lbs.
8 pumps 581 fps 13.64 ft. lbs.
Beeman Kodiak 21.14 gr. 8 pumps 545 fps. 13,94 ft. lbs.


Umarex Origin .22 Fill to 3200-1900 psi. Hammer spring backed off 2 full turns from max

Crosman Premier 14.3 gr. Average Velocity 1008 fps. ME 32.27 ft. lbs. * Most Accurate Pellet
Beeman Kodiak 21.14 gr, 888 fps 37.02 ft. lbs.

Hammer spring backed off 4 turns from max
Crosman Premier 14.3 gr. 938.8 fps. 27.99 ft.lbs.

Hammer spring turned all the way in to max power
Beeman Kodiak 21.14 gr. 942 fps. 41.66 ft. lbs.
H&N Rabbit Magnum II 25.62 gr. 924 fps. 48.58 ft. lbs.
H&N Slug 23 gr. 940 fps. 45.13 ft. lbs. * Much flatter trajectory than ANY of the pellets


Notice how the spring piston types lost ME as pellet weight increased. By my calculations the higher BC of the heavier pellets take
well over 50 yards to match the faster lighter pellets.
With the multi pump and PCP the heavier pellets surpassed the lighter ones in ME right from the muzzle. I wonder if this trend holds
for all spring piston types or is it only the ones I tested?