Lyman case trimmer pilots

[doulos]

I have a almost unused Lyman case trimmer. Was playing around with it and some of the pilots are so large they wont fit a sized case mouth. Never had this issue with RCBS pilots. Anyone else had this issue with Lyman trimmer pilots?

[C.F.Plinker]

You don't say what caliber you are trimming. I ran some tests on 41 Mag a while back. After sizing I measured the ID of the mouths on three different brands of brass and found that there was a difference of .003 between the largest and the smallest. This could cause your problem if you are using thick walled brass.

At least the pilots are too large and you can polish them down for a custom fit.

What is the difference between the diameters of your Lyman and RCBS pilots?

[doulos]

You don't say what caliber you are trimming. I ran some tests on 41 Mag a while back. After sizing I measured the ID of the mouths on three different brands of brass and found that there was a difference of .003 between the largest and the smallest. This could cause your problem if you are using thick walled brass.

At least the pilots are too large and you can polish them down for a custom fit.

What is the difference between the diameters of your Lyman and RCBS pilots?
I didnt measure them. These are no go for 45-70, 44mag, .357. And it is for any brass Ive tried. Win, Federal, Rem , Pmc, Hornady. I also tried resisizing with different dies. My pilots from my Rcbs power Pro has no such issues. These just arent cut right.

[Maven]

doulos, Aren't you supposed to trim before sizing? Try those pilots with fired, but unsized brass to see whether the pilots are truly oversized.

[C.F.Plinker]

From the on-line instruction book

Preparing the Cases
Before trimming, cases must be full-length or neck-resized and deprimed. Pilots are
designed to be used only with sized necks

[doulos]

I have always sized before trimming any case.

[1hole]

I have a almost unused Lyman case trimmer. Was playing around with it and some of the pilots are so large they wont fit a sized case mouth. Never had this issue with RCBS pilots. Anyone else had this issue with Lyman trimmer pilots?

My Lyman trimmer pilots have worked very well for decades. (So have Lyman's Universal and Accu-Trimmer mounted case care accessory tools.)

I wonder ... have your unusable "sized case mouths" also been properly expanded?

[doulos]

My Lyman trimmer pilots have worked very well for decades. (So have Lyman's Universal and Accu-Trimmer mounted case care accessory tools.)

I wonder ... have your unusable "sized case mouths" also been properly expanded?

not sure what you are saying
I dont expand a case mouth before trimming ...if thats what you mean

[GregLaROCHE]

doulos, Aren't you supposed to trim before sizing? Try those pilots with fired, but unsized brass to see whether the pilots are truly oversized.

Sizing can lengthen cases. That’s why they should be sized afterwards.

[country gent]

Cases vary in wall thickness, died also are set up to size to the thinnest case made then expand back up to the correct dia. While the difference in wall thickness may be .001-.002 this equals .002-.004 on the dia. This also affects the sizing die as the thicker case will be sized it smaller. The last is brass spring back, soft cases ( annealed ) dont have the same spring back as harder cases.

The next place to look is at the case mouths a burr on the inside will restrict the pilot also.

Measure a few sized case mouths then the pilot measure at 2 places on both 90* apart. See what you have dimension wise.

Expand a couple cases and measure them to see if this will work. chances are it will give you what you need.

when prepping to trim. I clean the cases and size then expand the necks. Deburr mouths lightly to remove burrs and or raised areas from dings. I then brush the neck with a phosphor bronze brush to clean bright.. They are now ready to trim. When trimming a lube the pilot with a light coat of light oil. this lubricates the pilot and cutter easing the force required. Chamfer and deburr.

I have cut a small 45* chamfer on the back of my pilots so they pull back thru the neck easier if a light burr is raised.

[1hole]

I dont expand a case mouth before trimming ...if thats what you mean

That's exactly what I mean and not neck expanding before trying to insert a trimmer pilot is probably what's causing your "too large Lyman pilots" problem. If so, your trimmer pilots aren't too large, your case mouths are too small; expand them normally and then trim.

[GregLaROCHE]

Many resizing dies also expand the neck diameter on the reverse stroke. If yours is not doing it, that could be your problem. You may have to expand the neck in a second operation. I do it in a second operation with a NOE expander that actually gives two diameters. A larger one to help the boolit start in the case and then a tighter one that gives the neck tension you want. My 45/70, 6.5mm(which I made) and 30.06 pilots all fit and work well on my Lyman, that’s pretty new.

[doulos]

I have never expanded case mouths before trimming. But then again Ive done most of my trimming with a Rcbs trimmer and pilots. This Lyman trimmer and pilots came with a Lyman reloading kit that had the Spar T as the press. Just to give you an idea how old they are.
In all fairness I also have not trimmed much due to the calibers I have shot over the years. But every case I have trimmed was sized first because I know sizing lengthens cases. And wouldnt case mouth expanding give a slight false OAL reading?
I have tried resizing with various dies also to see if there was a difference. An older Lyman set and newer RCBS. They size to very close diameters after measuring.
I actually tried turning down the 45-70 pilot a bit by chucking it in a drill and running it on sandpaper. It is much harder to reduce the diameter than I thought it would be. Could be just higher quality of older stuff. LOL
Thanks for the replies and ideas everyone.

[1hole]

... This Lyman trimmer and pilots came with a Lyman reloading kit that had the Spar T as the press.

Lyman's nifty little mid-60s Spar-T turret press preceded their first case trimmer (their excellent Universal Trimmer) by some 8-10 years, IIRC. That was a long time ago and I don't remember for sure but seems Lyman put their very good economy model (Accu-Trimmer) in a kit with that press ... but both trimmers use the same pilots.

(In 1995 I converted my own original 1965 simple toggle link Lyman Spar-T press into a compound/dual link system; over-all, it's not equal to my RC II but I love to use it for special stuff!)


... wouldnt case mouth expanding give a slight false OAL reading?

Not really but, again, I'm not sure what you're calling what and that matters. It sounds like you're using "neck expanding" as if it means the same thing as "mouth flaring" but they are not the same.

Neck expanding usually expands the whole resized case neck interior to about 2 thou less than bullet diameter. (BTW, going smaller than 2 thou does not increase bullet grip, it only requires us to use more force to expand the neck while seating the bullets.) We need the whole neck to be expanded to the same diameter for both the bullets AND trimmer pilots!

On the other hand, case mouth flaring (or belling) is only a few thou deep. It's done to make it easy for bullets, especially cast boolits, to start straight seating without damaging those critical bullet heels.

I've never checked to see if expanding or flaring before or after trimming matters to case length but I'd bet both of my dollars it doesn't make a bit of difference on anyone's targets; if it did matter we'd see lots of cautions to only do it the best way.

Bottom line, we usually need to full length size and neck expand our cases before trimming just so we can get the pilots in there.

[doulos]

Thanks
Its a Universal trimmer its stamped with that name on it. The 6 hole turret press is long gone. I figure I bought that kit in mid 80s. Gave it to a friend who was interested in reloading. I learned on that press. So I figured to to pass it on to him and his sons.

[GregLaROCHE]

Thanks
Its a Universal trimmer its stamped with that name on it. The 6 hole turret press is long gone. I figure I bought that kit in mid 80s. Gave it to a friend who was interested in reloading. I learned on that press. So I figured to to pass it on to him and his sons.

I bought the same kit as you in the mid eighties. I still use the six hole press for almost all my needs, even though I have a new Rock Chucker. To me it’s a real plus to have the other dies in place ready to go for the next step.

[doulos]

I wasnt using it as much anymore and my buddy inquired about it when seeing it bolted to my bench without dies in it. So I gave it to him. It was a good press. But I used my Rock Chucker more. And now I have 2 single stages set up with Hornady lock n load bushings and a Dillon 550.

[Maven]

doulas and Greg, I use a Forster case trimmer whose pilots will not enter sized brass, hence the above advice. Also, my experience with fired revolver brass from 4 such guns is that they shrink slightly after firing and no amount of FL resizing will make them longer. A taper crimp die or dies if loading for different calibers, eliminates the problem of varying case lengths and has had no effect on accuracy that I can see.

[Three44s]

I have the same problem with my Lyman pilot in .22 centerfire and my .223/5.56 brass.

I run sized cases on my Wilson trimmer, unsized on the Lyman.

I would try running your sized cases after a test run on a belling die set just enough to expand the mouth of the case at a minimal amount. Just to see if it makes a difference.

Three44s

[GregLaROCHE]

I like taper crimping and use it a lot, if I know the round won’t be going through rough usage, like being packed over tough terrain. I think it extends brass life.

It’s a mystery to me why so many have had problems with the size of the pilots. Have the pilots been checked with a micrometer and compared to what the neck size should be? Maybe there were some problems with quality control when they were made.

[Walks]

Such a simple thing and so much confusion.
I have RCBS and Lyman trimmers. Have always expanded cases, either straight wall or bottleneck. It's the way Dad taught Us back in the 50's-60's.

[lesharris]

I too have had the same problem with Lyman trimmer pilots. I ordered new pilots and fit and worked without any problems. Could be lyman fixed the issue. I always trimmed after sizing.

[doulos]

These pilots are very old. I had no such issues trimming with a RCBS trimmer and pilots after sizing. I just sized cases first because thats what Lyman said. Rcbs suggests it also. Neither said anything about case mouth expanding. Manufacturers instruction is what I have went on. I never had a mentor for this hobby. So I just read what I could. But everyone here has given me some sound advice. Thanks

[gwpercle]

I have a almost unused Lyman case trimmer. Was playing around with it and some of the pilots are so large they wont fit a sized case mouth. Never had this issue with RCBS pilots. Anyone else had this issue with Lyman trimmer pilots?

Since day one ... all the instructions say to SIZE the case then trim ...but that doesn't work because the pilots are too large and the sized case neck will not fit over and onto the pilots ...... So ... about 40 years ago , when I got the trimmer , I went to trimming fired cases ...then sizing them ... worked like a black magic Voo Doo charm and been doing it that way ever since .
Gary

[Three44s]

Processing .223/5.56

For me it’s cases trimmed on a Lyman with unsized necks. Trim to a length close to the trim to length. Use the carbide cutter and it’s fast. Bevel and chamfer the case mouths.

Next, I full length brass new to me.

The final run is on two Wilson trimmers, one to set the final length the other to final cut the bevel on the primer pocket after its run on the RCBS pocket swagger.

The Wilson gives me the squarest case mouth of any trimmer I have tried.

I am a stickler for inside flash hole deburring. With a good consistent case length and a square mouth I get a good consistent flash hole debur depth.

For my bolt guns, I figure I will not have to trim again for quite a while since I use a Lee collet die, the AR’s are a different story.

Three44s

[gwpercle]

Processing .223/5.56

For me it’s cases trimmed on a Lyman with unsized necks. Trim to a length close to the trim to length. Use the carbide cutter and it’s fast. Bevel and chamfer the case mouths.

Next, I full length brass new to me.

The final run is on two Wilson trimmers, one to set the final length the other to final cut the bevel on the primer pocket after its run on the RCBS pocket swagger.

The Wilson gives me the squarest case mouth of any trimmer I have tried.

I am a stickler for inside flash hole deburring. With a good consistent case length and a square mouth I get a good consistent flash hole debur depth.

For my bolt guns, I figure I will not have to trim again for quite a while since I use a Lee collet die, the AR’s are a different story.

Three44s

LIKE ! :goodpost:
Gary