Measuring Unique

[Alstep]

I've been loading some rounds with Unique, and I'm finding a lot of weight variations with my Little Dandy measure. Sometimes as much as a 1/2 grain or more. That's a lot of variation when you're only dispensing 5 or 6 grains. So I get out my Lyman 55 and the same happens with that too. I try to keep my procedure of dispensing the same and nothing seams to work any better. Even setting the Lyman up with a narrow and deep hole or wide and shallow doesn't seam to improve the situation.
What's the secret of measuring Unique, other than weighing each charge???

[littlejack]

When you figure out how to drop consistant charges of Unique powder, make sure you patent the process. :killingpc Unique is one of those problem children you always hear about.
:kidding:

[358429]

Personally I would use my lee plastic powder measure, it seemed fine with

dispensing unique I was loading 38+p into chromed r-p brass, I wanted them to be

perfect, every powder throw was exactly the same I was throwing 5.5 grains.

Or alternativly a homemade dipper may be made.
Silver solder a heavy copper wire to a 9mm casing. Easily adjust internal volume by filling the case with more solder.

0.1 grain can be easily maintained with beginner dipper technique. If you have

coordinated eyes/ hands and good lighting the consistency improves. Its how

I learned to reload 9mm with power pistol and unique.
I was frustrated that the plastic lee spoons

did not carry the in- between charge weights/ volumes I wanted, so I made a couple different ones.

[littlejack]

One thing that helps from the start. I switched from Unique to Herco a few years back. IMHO, Herco does meter better than the Unique. But, not as good as a lot of other powders. Anyway, after I fill the powder reservoir on my Little Dandy, I drop about a dozen charges back into the powder container to settle the powder in the reservoir. Yes, you can tap the reservoir or vibrate it, but that method is not how one drops the powder. I have found that tapping on the side, packs the powder down, and after the powder level drops to a lower level, it will weigh different. Hope this helps a little. Good luck

[Noah Zark]

I use an old Belding and Mull Visible Powder Measure.

Noah

[mehavey]

Harrells' Schuetzen measure.
Expensive, but I (literally) trust it w/ my life.*


*
That, and a wooden dowel ;-)
With very small charges, cut a 2" dowel and mark it w/ a pencil when dropped into charged case.
When you've finished loading powder into an entire block of cases, drop the dowel into each case to check.
Takes 60 secs for entire block. Saves your eyes for a lifetime.

ps: Save the dowel.. Once used, you'll use it for the rest of your life to sleep well.

[megasupermagnum]

The Lee measure does a lot better for me than the Lyman 55 did on flake powders especially. On my progressive I run the auto drum with a baffle in it. Using the manual Lee measure, I don't use a baffle.

When all else fails, the Lee powder scoops are great. This is the only way I know how to get reasonable measure with 800x. They are slower, but if you are only doing 100, you hardly notice.

[RogerDat]

Cast low and trickle up load on a scale. Slower but it insures exact load. I have noticed Unique is hard in small loads. I'm using a Lee perfect or a Lee drum measure or an autodisk on press. The autodisk seemed to do pretty consistent. Maybe it is the fact that it gets shaken a lot as the handle is pulled and the powder through die rotates around the turret.

I also have found the baffles sold by Titan Reloading to help. Site sponsor with a link at top of every page. 3D printed clover leaf shaped disk intended to be dropped in measure reservoir where it sits above the bottom and keeps the weight of powder on dispensing chamber consistent while allowing powder to flow around its "leaves".

[Sasquatch-1]

I use a Uniflo with the small drum. When dispensing the powder I give the handle a vigorous tap at top and bottom. I usually stay withing 1/20th to 1/10th of a grain. Now when dispensing less then 3 grains I can still feel the measure cut powder every once in a while.

[ABJ]

For Unique, the Dots and 700x I use the Lee dipper. Once you get your system down it's almost as fast as a measure.
I use a separate 2 inch x 3 inch x 3inch tall container. I pull the scoop through from one end to the other and wipe off level with the top of the scoop. You can also swipe the scoop through once then again and again for a total of 4 times pretty much packs the powder to the max for that scoop. I can maintain less than two tenths variation, and always use this method for LESS than max loads. Max loads gets measured on a beam.
Tony

[Jal5]

I’m with Sasquatch on his method. The Uniflow with a baffle is my normal way for Unique and I use it quite a lot.


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[Bmi48219]

Last week I loaded 100 rounds of 45 acp with pulled down components including 6.2 gr Unique measured in my 55. Took a bit to get it set but it dropped consistent +/- .05 gr.
I scaled every 5th charge. I start with a full hopper, use the knocker 30 times before even dropping the first test load. Then two knocks with handle up and one knock handle down to get last few flakes into the brass. Every load. No baffle but I keep the powder level in hopper above 2/3 full all the time.
I don’t use much Unique anymore.

[Wayne Smith]

I have seven powder measures, including a Lyman 55 but no Lee. Unique bridged in all of them but one, and I only use it in the Belding and Mull - impossible to bridge in that one.

[gwpercle]

I have two ways :

1.) The Lyman 55 with the narrow deep single cavity and working up a consistent method of settling the powder and operating the handle so that it drops a consistent measure of powder .
And keep the hopper more than halfway full at all times .
Throw 10 charges to settle the powder in the hopper.
Consistent operation , settling the powder before with the "knocker" , before moving the handle each time is paramount ... I had to practice and devolp a system of movements and knocks to get consistent ... it's not simply work the handle and nothing else ...settling the powder consistently and operating the handle and using the "knocker" all in a consistent manner are critical .

2.) I use a scoop ... develop a method to consistently scoop charges ...it's not hard and a lot more consistent than you would believe !
Gary

[Larry Gibson]

I have two ways :

1.) The Lyman 55 with the narrow deep single cavity and working up a consistent method of settling the powder and operating the handle so that it drops a consistent measure of powder .
And keep the hopper more than halfway full at all times .
Throw 10 charges to settle the powder in the hopper.
Consistent operation , settling the powder before with the "knocker" , before moving the handle each time is paramount ... I had to practice and devolp a system of movements and knocks to get consistent ... it's not simply work the handle and nothing else ...settling the powder consistently and operating the handle and using the "knocker" all in a consistent manner are critical .

2.) I use a scoop ... develop a method to consistently scoop charges ...it's not hard and a lot more consistent than you would believe !
Gary

Same here. I've been using Lyman 55's (have 3 of them) since '69. With Unique I use the large deep single cavity of all 3 adjustment bars also. If one or both of the smaller bars are used there is too much room for uneven "cut" when the rotor is turned. As mentioned, a consistent operation of the handle along with consistent use of the knocker to evenly settle the powder is necessary. I rotate the handle up to it's stop smartly then use 3 knocks of the knocker. I can throw 5 - 12 gr charges within .1 - .2 gr.

With dippers a consistent method of running the scoop through the bowl/cup of powder and a slight tapping to settle and level off produces pretty consistent charges.

Also, as others mention the Lee powder thrower also works well with Unique and the other flake powders. I rotate the rotor up to the fill position the tap the side of the rotor with my finger to evenly settle the powder in the rotor cavity.

[Ed_Shot]

I use my one and only RCBS Uniflow from 1968. I have always thrown light and trickled-up on a scale. Never been in a hurry when reloading.

[OutHuntn84]

I've never experienced a problem metering out unique, but then again I don't check each charge, 1 in 10 usually. I use a Lee turret press with case actuated powder dispensers (Lee's disk or drum and recently converted a dillon as well). All 3 systems are volumetric dispensers and no problems as far as consistency.
That being said because of all the jarring movement in the turret, it probably settles the powder into the measure before being dispensed.

[carelesslove]

carelesslove, here !

Our Forum-mates Sasquatch-1 and Jal5 may have the answer & method, all in one.

I have hand loaded and cast for ~50 years and the very first powder I used was UNIQUE. I mean the old, dirty, dusty, metal canned, hard-to-measure HERCULES UNIQUE. I was handed this powder - along with an entire reloading set (mostly RCBS) by my local gunshop owner - who is still a friend to this day. He knew I wanted to load revolver cartridges, so he supplied the RCBS UNIFLOW measure with the small drum already installed.

He instructed me to start with specific - mid-range - loads of UNIQUE, to get going and specifically instructed me to be very consistent in my use of the measure. First, he strongly recommended that I develop a consistant "rhythm" for the upstroke & downstroke and not to vary it.

Second, he really strongly recommended that I tap the handle (hard) at the top and at the bottom - the same way, every time. I have dispensed every powder the same way for about 50 years.

In this time frame, I tried every new powder that came out. Some were great, some were not-so-great. Here I am - after a bunch of experimentation - back to using UNIQUE (the new version) - in .357 , .41, .44, .460, and .500 Magnum. I have a pretty standard regimen for load development and all I can say is that it works.

To cap off the discussion of measuring consistently with UNIQUE, I was "gifted" with an "Intellidropper" - a newfangled powder measure. After carefully reading and following the instructions, I found my "rhythm" and loaded up some mid-range .500's, with UNIQUE and 400 grain cast boolits - along with some previously loaded with the same charge (dropped from my old UNIFLOW), and sat down to do some serious chronograph comparison.

In short, there was no difference in my data - dropping from the UNIFLOW, or the newfangled Intellidropper-thingie - the chronograph data had no variance. I still had very low extreme spreads and Standard Deviations, in 10 shot strings.

So much for fixing what wasn't broken.

Looking back, I think Sasquatch-1 and Jal5 are ahead of their time - the tapping may be the key to solving UNIQUE's "problem".

Give it a try. It might set back a lot of technological / powder development.

Thanks, Tom "carelesslove" Love

[mdi]

Yep, Unique, a flake powder, can be difficult. You are going to get many "I use a ___" and "My ___ measure has been OK for 29 years". But no matter which measure or which method you choose, be consistent. Same throw speed, same throw force, same throw method (same way the handle is moved from one end of the swing to the other end; bump on each end, pause at each end, smooth one movement, etc.). Keep the hopper close to the same level. But do every movement, every action the exact same as you can. Consistency is the key.

I started with dipper measuring, then got a scale and with practice I was able to hold .15 grain variation of some powders. Then I got a Lee PPM. It took a short time to develope my own powder measuring style/method but realized that if I wanted the same amount of powder to fall out of my measure every time, I had to do the same thing every time.

FWIW; Universal powder is very close to the same performance levels as Unique, often used interchangablly (proper charges of course) but much easier to meter...

[littlejack]

If a person is dropping powder in cases standing in reloading trays as I do with my Little Dandy powder measure, make sure to visually check the powder level in the cases after they have been charged. This will let you know if you've double charged a case, missed charging a case, or had a low charge from powder bridging.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've never experienced a problem metering out unique, but then again I don't check each charge, 1 in 10 usually. I use a Lee turret press with case actuated powder dispensers (Lee's disk or drum and recently converted a dillon as well). All 3 systems are volumetric dispensers and no problems as far as consistency.
That being said because of all the jarring movement in the turret, it probably settles the powder into the measure before being dispensed.

Same here.
I always check the first 5 to 10 charges, and I get ± 0.1gr for most flake powders, including Unique, with Lee's Pro-Disk on the auto-indexing classic Turret press. The jarring vibrations are just the ticket. The trick is, to run the press consistently, to get the same jarring vibrations from one round to the last.

[Mal Paso]

I use a Uniflo with the small drum. When dispensing the powder I give the handle a vigorous tap at top and bottom. I usually stay withing 1/20th to 1/10th of a grain. Now when dispensing less then 3 grains I can still feel the measure cut powder every once in a while.

Same here. I have to bolt the Uniflow stand to the bench for Unique and N350 so it doesn't jump when I cut powder. Never had a problem with charge weight but Unique meters like drainrock.

[Carrier]

Both of my Hornady LNL powder measures drop Unique pretty good. When set for 8.5 grains they will vary between 8.4 and 8.6 all day long. I used to check every couple of drops then after a dozen and now I rarely check anymore. However if I let powder level get below half then the variance will get a tenth or two more.

[HP9MM]

I use a technique no one has mentioned. Fill the Lyman 55 up more than half and then tap on the plastic tube with a wrench, brush or something like that. This settles the powder down to a uniform settling. You will be surprised how the powder level drops down as it is settled. I do use a deep hole in the measure to drop the powder in to minimize cutting. This works great for Unique and all the powders I use to get uniform powder drops.

[Scrounge]

I've been loading some rounds with Unique, and I'm finding a lot of weight variations with my Little Dandy measure. Sometimes as much as a 1/2 grain or more. That's a lot of variation when you're only dispensing 5 or 6 grains. So I get out my Lyman 55 and the same happens with that too. I try to keep my procedure of dispensing the same and nothing seams to work any better. Even setting the Lyman up with a narrow and deep hole or wide and shallow doesn't seam to improve the situation.
What's the secret of measuring Unique, other than weighing each charge???

Unique was the powder I used almost exclusively for some years, and is why I weigh each load. Since I'm not into volume production, it works well for me, no matter what powder I'm using. YMMV, of course. ;) I do only have three firearms that are semi-auto, and two of those are .22lr rimfire, so that may have something to do with it, too.

Bill

[Walks]

Just once, was using the Little Dandy when it first came out back in the late ?1970's?.
Was using Unique too, light charges for .38WC's, had a bullet stuck in the bore out of a 1,000 rounds. Never used it to throw light charges of Unique again.
I also started to check the powder levels in the loading trays after that, so it may have been the learning curve for a new reloading tool/method. Since then, and up until now it throws 4.7grs of Unique within .1gr every time. 2400, W296, W231, Bullseye It's all in the wrist.

[Chaparral66]

I started with a single stage press and all my brass standing up in a multi-shell holder. Before continuing on to boolit installation I scanned all the shells for equal powder volume. Worked great. Then I upgraded to a Lee rotary press. Now I just need to keep my mind from wandering (ADD... squirrel) and maintain a consistent rhythm. Hard to double charge, but easy to load no powder.

[oley55]

Same here. I have to bolt the Uniflow stand to the bench for Unique and N350 so it doesn't jump when I cut powder. Never had a problem with charge weight but Unique meters like drainrock.

Being old and slower of mind than others, I was compelled to look up "drainrock", and just like that another 60 seconds of life lost to the internet universe.

Drainrock Industries (they use drain rock in their water mitigation business).:kidding:

[justindad]

Keeping the powder hopper at a consistent fullness level helps… if your charge variance is a gradual drift.
*
As others have said, tapping the throw handle after pouring a charge and keeping a consistent throw speed have improved my consistency. This helps more with charge-to-charge variation than batch-to-batch variation.
*
If you frequently adjust the fill dial to correct for the previous fill being high or low, you will be running an experiment called known by Quality Engineers as “exploding variation.” I only mention that because 0.5 grain variance is larger than I’ve experienced.

[whisler]

My Lee Pro AutoDisc will throw Unique within 0.1-0.2 gr. (as long as I keep the hopper screws tight)

[Three44s]

I concur with just about all the advice offered thus far. Tapping to settle powder in the reservoir, tapping to settle individual charges, using a scale that works for you.

But something not mentioned as I recall is to load medium charges with Unique.

By staying in the middle of its operating pressure range one can avoid dangerous parts of the scale.

An example would be my beloved 44 Magnum:

A Skeeter Skelton load would be 8.5 gr of Unique behind a 250 gr lead slug. Not a plinker nor a blaster! A two or three tenth grain (up or down) will not bust a gun or stick a boolit.

If you move up-to maximum and you “slip up” for a few tenths, you could have entered the red zone!

My response is to switch to HS6 by Hodgdon! You will lower pressure and have a powder that meters like SIN!

If your intention is to go slower, then chose a faster powder that meters well. It’s just common sense!

Three44s

[jimb16]

This is interesting. I get pretty uniform drops with every powder I use. But I also have baffles in every one of my powder measures (even my MECs). I'll grant you that the larger flake powders are not as uniform as other powders, but +/- .1 gr is consistent enough for my needs.

[littlejack]

jumb16
Ditto for me as well.

[oley55]

jumb16
Ditto for me as well.

me three. ^^^

[rbuck351]

I still have about 3 lbs of unique I bought about 40 years ago. That's when I discovered Win 230P and stopped using unique. When that was discontinued I went to W231. Both meter really well with most any powder measure and are close enough to unique to work in the same type loads. I also found Universal clays to work very well in place of unique and meters very well. I use unique for the occasional shotgun loading I do.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I don't use Unique, but the Lee Auto Drum, mounted on a Lee turret press, measures Promo (flake powder) very well for me. I'm always sure to run the turret around between charges to settle the powder.

[gunther]

Learned to reload on a small rotor Uniflo; 5 grains of unique and a 358477. Learned to shoot on that load in a 6 inch Highway Patrolman. Younger eyes and less arthritus and don't remember a low charge. But, that was 1970. Added a micro-adjustment a few years ago, and am still happy with the measure. The measure was mounted solidly, and I remember cutting a lot of grains of Unique into smaller pieces. Mostly used a loading block and checked the powder levels; don't remember any glaring problems.

[Texas by God]

This blackpowder priming flask is my favorite way to drop 9 grains of Unique. I use that load in a variety of my guns so it is convenient as all get out.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211209/44c547e102196dedf8b68d4471b5ef11.jpg

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[243winxb]

A variable of 2/10 gr +/- doesnt seem to hurt a thing. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/oven-heat-treated-test.3939/full

[ABJ]

243, I don't care how old you were or weren't, that is good shooting for anyone. I shoot Bullseye and score very few long line targets with that many x's. except when the AMU or National guard teams shoot but hey they get paid to shoot and we buy all the ammo they want, and I have no problem with it.
I agree with you on certain powders, 2/10 doesn't show on target. I have seen those AMU shooters pick up an unknown gun and ammo and shot a 100 and hand it back to the gun owner and just smile.
Just looking at the picture and not the actual target, maybe a 6x?, Bullseye is high line cut.
Tony

[243winxb]

Yes 6X. Done to see if anyones looking. :grin:

Edit- The small cartridges , like 9mm are effected more with large flake powders. I just stay away from these listed maximums. The starting loads to 2/10 below maximum work ok. Have loaded Unique, 700X, Bullseye & HS-6 powders with my cast bullets.

[dale2242]

I am not a volume reloader.
I load 5-6K rounds a year.
I do not get any variance with my Hornady Auto Charge.
Electric dispensers are not for everyone but I wish I had bought one as soon as they were available.