Boy do I need help !

[John Crusher]

I just picked up my Palmetto.Garret rifle at Lee Shavers' after having him put on a Soule sight and I asked him if he could tell me my bore I.D.
Well, it's .460+-.001.
I understand I can shoot .458 cast through it fine, but for the life of me I can't find jacketed bullets in .461.
If I use hard cast .458 what would I need to add as far as a gas check if I load smokeless as I don't want gas flash ?
And, as I'm a total newbie when it comes to cast, I've reloaded Ks and Ks jacketed from 5.56 to 300 Win mag but stepping off into this is not in my wheelhouse !
Where can I get the info. to do this right ?

[nvbirdman]

The first thing I would do is measure the bore myself.

[country gent]

You can try hard cast but generally something softer works better in these rifles in 45-70 ( im assuming). In my 45-70s and 90 i normally use 20-1. Sized .001 above groove dia. Look at MVA for the softer bullets with correct BP lube to try.

[cwtebay]

Is that a groove or land diameter? I'm with who suggested remeasurement.

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[John Crusher]

Well , I asked Lee about slugging the bore and he took it into the back and measured and said it was .460 +.
He's only been a gunsmith and a single shot GURU for 40 some odd years.
If you get a Sight for your single shot, I'd recommend one from him.

And yes, it is a 45/70.

[trails4u]

So.......you're in a first name kinda relationship with the smith that built your rifle, but here asking questions about how to fit a bullet/boolit? What is his advice?

[cwtebay]

Well , I asked Lee about slugging the bore and he took it into the back and measured and said it was .460 +.
He's only been a gunsmith and a single shot GURU for 40 some odd years.
If you get a Sight for your single shot, I'd recommend one from him.

And yes, it is a 45/70.So what does he recommend? I would assume that he's encountered this before with that sort of experience.


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[JimB..]

He never said that Lee Shaver built the rifle, just added the sight. Still would be worth asking for his suggestions.

To make that rifle sing you’re likely gonna need to cast/size at .461. You might get away with .460 and a layer of powder coating. Paper patching is another option, but it’s as much an art as a science.

If you shoot a .458 hard cast bullet you will get leading and it will not be accurate. It’s large enough to engage the lands, but doesn’t get out to the groove diameter, so it’ll skid down the barrel while hot gasses blow past.

Jacketed bullets won’t make as big a mess, but also won’t be as accurate as a more properly sized bullet would be.

It’ll be interesting to see how the barrel is throated, oversized bullets can sometimes be a problem, so watch for that.

You’ve got some work to do.

[Wayne Smith]

First have Lee check and see if you can chamber and shoot a .461 boolit, if your throat will accept that in the case. If so, any of Accurate designs can be scaled up, call Tom and talk to him. If your rifle will not accept a .461 boolit you are looking at either having Lee throat the barrel or shooting very soft cast boolits and expecting them to bump up to size. This is best accomplished shooting black powder.

[charlie b]

Had not heard of Garret Arms so looked it up. From posts across forums it seems they were known to have varied bore dimensions. Probably for that reason also known not to be very accurate. They also seem to be exact duplicates of the original Sharps.

I'd find a mold that makes a bullet to fit the bore, go with the 1:20 alloy and a good lube. Jacketed bullets will probably make a mess of copper fouling.

[gwpercle]

Fit is way more important than hard . Slug the barrel and go from there .
Gary

[Tazman1602]

You can try hard cast but generally something softer works better in these rifles in 45-70 ( im assuming). In my 45-70s and 90 i normally use 20-1. Sized .001 above groove dia. Look at MVA for the softer bullets with correct BP lube to try.

^^^^^^ This all day long

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

If you shoot a .458 hard cast bullet you will get leading and it will not be accurate. It’s large enough to engage the lands, but doesn’t get out to the groove diameter, so it’ll skid down the barrel while hot gasses blow past.


What he said......

[beagle]

If the measurements are as you quoted, you might be getting into the realm of a hollow base mould here. I have "beagled" up to .462" once for a friend's cadet but they were a bit cruder than I liked. But they shot all right for him and he was happy.

Only way I know to get jacketed that big without doing a lot of improvised tinkering would be to reswage .458s and that would take some rather expensive equipment./beagle

[John Crusher]

Well you all sure 'nuff got my head spinning !
Holey moley, maybe I need to find a new barrel for this critter !
I've never done casting , but I've got a buddy who has done it for 35+ years and I guess I'll pick his brain to see what will work.
If it gets too nuts, then I'll get it rebarreled so I can load/shoot without concern.
Thanks guys, you gave me real insight and probably a bill but what the hey.

[dondiego]

Have you shot it with jacketed bullets? Cast? What happened?

[Dusty Bannister]

Where are you getting your reloading data for this rifle. Do you have a manual dedicated to cast bullet loads like the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th edition? If you are new to reloading cast bullets, a good manual will give you the necessary basics to help you understand what is being discussed. You speak of seeking jacketed bullets to exceed the groove diameter, yet no reloading manuals will suggest over sized jacketed bullets. Cast bullets are loaded over sized to get a reliable seal in the barrel to prevent gas cutting and leading of the barrel. I do not think you have a problem with the barrel, but perhaps you have a problem with not knowing what you actually need to develop a cast bullet load.

[John Crusher]

Where are you getting your reloading data for this rifle. Do you have a manual dedicated to cast bullet loads like the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th edition? If you are new to reloading cast bullets, a good manual will give you the necessary basics to help you understand what is being discussed. You speak of seeking jacketed bullets to exceed the groove diameter, yet no reloading manuals will suggest over sized jacketed bullets. Cast bullets are loaded over sized to get a reliable seal in the barrel to prevent gas cutting and leading of the barrel. I do not think you have a problem with the barrel, but perhaps you have a problem with not knowing what you actually need to develop a cast bullet load.

I have not reloaded and yes, I will find the best manual/info. I can before I do. As I stated, I have a friend who is a cast bullet shooter and I will not step off into reloading until I have my ducks in a row. Just like when I started jacketed reloading , I will seek the advice and knowledge of the advanced reloader before I attempt it. I have shot this rifle and because of the original sight it was not feasible to check for groups. I will shoot this weekend and adjust my sight and see where it is and where to go.