Better accuracy with pure mixtures?

[Wolfdog91]

Not sure how else to word it but I'm curious for the guys who are mixing their own allows from pure ingredients (lead ,tin, antimony ect) are you getting better accuracy/consistency then with say range scrap or wheel weights ?
Looking really hard at ordering my components from rotto metals and working up a alloy similar to clipon wheel weights. For the amount of shooting I do $100 wotlrth of components should last me quite a long time. And it seems to me being able to mix exactly what you want will make for better results but what say y'all ?

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have been using WW and a little tin since I started reloading back in 1970. My wheel weights were free and tin was very reasonable. I have gotten good accuracy with that combination so never had a reason to try anything else. I am quit sure people that have done the pure thing, would probably do better.

[358429]

Not sure how else to word it but I'm curious for the guys who are mixing their own allows from pure ingredients (lead ,tin, antimony ect) are you getting better accuracy/consistency then with say range scrap or wheel weights ?
Looking really hard at ordering my components from rotto metals and working up a alloy similar to clipon wheel weights. For the amount of shooting I do $100 wotlrth of components should last me quite a long time. And it seems to me being able to mix exactly what you want will make for better results but what say y'all ?That's exactly my next experiment. Recently I mixed up a batch of homemade Lyman number 2. I used Rocky Mountain reloading lead, one ingot super hard from rotometals and 30 ounces lab pure tin that my machinist buddy gave me.

My target is approximately 90% lead 5% antimony and 5% tin.

I have not shot them yet.

I assembled a batch of 50 357 Magnum the other night. Going to go test them from the snub nose and bolt action rifle soon.

I'll tell you what I noticed immediate difference in how It cast. It was much easier to make better bullets. I am making 124 grainhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/7fccb504fc07444f217ad98c766efa1b.jpg hollow point bullets with a brass mold.

Just from how much easier it is to cast my intention is to continue to use this better metal. Casting the Lyman number 2 was truly enjoyable.

What kind of bullets are you making and how hard are you pushing them?

This metal might be a pretty good idea for 223 in the ar rifle. I bet you can make a lot of bullets from 40 lb of number 2 alloy.

[Wolfdog91]

That's exactly my next experiment. Recently I mixed up a batch of homemade Lyman number 2. I used Rocky Mountain reloading lead, one ingot super hard from rotometals and 30 ounces lab pure tin that my machinist buddy gave me.

My target is approximately 90% lead 5% antimony and 5% tin.

I have not shot them yet.

I assembled a batch of 50 357 Magnum the other night. Going to go test them from the snub nose and bolt action rifle soon.

I'll tell you what I noticed immediate difference in how It cast. It was much easier to make better bullets. I am making 124 grainhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/7fccb504fc07444f217ad98c766efa1b.jpg hollow point bullets with a brass mold.

Just from how much easier it is to cast my intention is to continue to use this better metal. Casting the Lyman number 2 was truly enjoyable.

What kind of bullets are you making and how hard are you pushing them?

This metal might be a pretty good idea for 223 in the ar rifle. I bet you can make a lot of bullets from 40 lb of number 2 alloy.

Very interesting! Yeah I'm probably going to mainly be runni g them out of my AR around 2100 fps with the lee .55gainers

[Winger Ed.]

You'll want something that works, and doesn't Lead up your barrel.
The rest of the equation is all about consistency, and eliminating variables.

For what I load, I use the official redneck method of making alloys:

For handgun stuff at 1,000 fps or so, I use whatever I have the most of so to speak.
Mostly pure Lead, and about 25% or so of wheel weights, and a hand full of shot gun shot per 20 pound pot.
I'll mix up a big batch that's soft to conserve 'goodies' and casts well.

For higher speed .30. rifles, I'll make a big batch that's pretty hard from wheel weights, some 95/5 solder,
and reclaimed shotgun shot. If it's harder than I want, I'll run in some pure Lead.
Then mark the ingots for 'rifle'.

[charlie b]

I have a hard time finding scrap so all of my rifle bullets are Rotometal Lyman #2.

I don't think the alloy will be an issue if you weight sort the bullets. Sorting by weight has made the most difference for me in accuracy.

[JohnH]

Not sure how else to word it but I'm curious for the guys who are mixing their own allows from pure ingredients (lead ,tin, antimony ect) are you getting better accuracy/consistency then with say range scrap or wheel weights ?
Looking really hard at ordering my components from rotto metals and working up a alloy similar to clipon wheel weights. For the amount of shooting I do $100 wotlrth of components should last me quite a long time. And it seems to me being able to mix exactly what you want will make for better results but what say y'all ?

If you talk to them at Roto, you'll probably find that they can mix that alloy for you, if they don't already keep it on hand. I find straight clip on wheel weight to be just about as ideal a boolit meta as one could ask for. As cast it's about perfect for handgun and low velocity rifle (easily does up to 1800 without issue) can be heat treated to make it harder if you need.

[gwpercle]

Handguns at 50 feet ... it isn't a big deal . Range scrap and inexact pots of alloy will not make much difference
Rifles at 100- 200 yards (or more) ... then yes and it makes for repeatable performance .
Consistency gets important .
If you have a cheap (or free) source of COWW a mix of 50-50 with soft scrap lead + 1% tin will give you a fairly good all around use alloy ... BUT , COWW's are getting hard to find , my free unlimited supplier for the last 50 years retired from the tire business and sold all his tire shops !!!
So... buying metal from a dealer, already mixed to the blend you want might be the way to go .
I still have a good supply of COWW's but I've been looking at simple lead-tin alloy preparing for the day I don't have any more COWW's and no place to get them from .
I have never been real technical with alloy , straight wheel weights , 50-50 WW & lead and add a little , 1 lb. to a 20 lb pot of Printers Type for some added tin .
Buying metal already mixed would sure save time and effort scrounging around tire shops , then you have to inspect each weight to get the good ones , then render them down and remove the clips and trash ... You know what ...Unless you can get free wheel weights ...it might be easier to just buy alloy... and if you can drive to the sellor's place and pick it up ...Save on shipping !
Gary

[Mal Paso]

I bought a pallet of 3-4% Antimony Lead from Rotometals a while back and add a bit of tin for fillout. I shoot high pressure pistol and water drop. Works well.

3-4% Antimony is about the same alloy as Wheel Weights. Hardball alloy is harder at 6% Antimony.

[GregLaROCHE]

Range lead can vary a lot depending where you get it and even if you go to the same place three months later. If you don’t have wheel weights easily available, it’s probably a good idea to start with something from Roto Metals. Don’t forget that powder coating helps softer lead to perform better at higher velocities.

[poppy42]

Pistol boolets- wheel weights + tin. Rifle- Lyman #2

[fc60]

Greetings,

I have been culling out all my "unknown" bullet alloys.

The advantage of using known metals is consistency/repeatability.

What you cast and shoot Dec 2021 will be the same with what you load April 2022.

If you shoot to enjoy the noise and recoil, the above does not matter.

In this case, buy a good hardness tester and blend all your unknown metals to the same hardness.

Cheers,

Dave

[Wolfdog91]

Well I'm finding it harder and harder to get wheel weights. There's one shop that keeps them but $45 for a 5gal buck I gotta sort could be mostly lead cold be mostly steel . Little bit of a gamble where I could just buy pure and mix it exactly how I want. Honestly I like being able to recreate a load as closely as possible and after doing some bhn testing on some bullets I made a few months apart from when same type of lead I'd like something a little better lol

[7br]

I am trying to be a little more precise on my alloys. I bought quite a bit of hard alloy of a known composition. I also picked up a couple 2 lbs of sheet lead. We will see how it works for me.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[reddog81]

I’ve had good luck with WWs and other scrap alloys that I’ve found. For handgun loads and rifle under 1500 FPS you can get away with using alloys that aren’t “perfect”. If trying to get 2000+ FPS I think you’ll probably have better luck with known alloys.

[Mal Paso]

YO!

10% off through Friday Dec 10 at Rotometals.

Coupon code: winter

[Jim22]

I don't think the alloy will be an issue if you weight sort the bullets. Sorting by weight has made the most difference for me in accuracy.

I agree with weight sorting cast boolits. When I first brought up the subject on this forum most of my answers were, "Don't worry about it. Shoot 'em as cast.". I tried it any way and found that weight sorting reduceed group size dramatically. Most of my testing has been with Lee's 200 grain .35 boolits. I sort them in batches one grain apart. Math says that's 1/2 of one percent. The last batch was COWW. The greatest majority were 207 grains. Second largest number was 208. That amounted to 85% of them so all the others went back in the pot.

I still keep the 207's and 208's separate and load them in batches. Accuracy has been very good doing this.

Jim

[centershot]

That's exactly my next experiment. Recently I mixed up a batch of homemade Lyman number 2. I used Rocky Mountain reloading lead, one ingot super hard from rotometals and 30 ounces lab pure tin that my machinist buddy gave me.

My target is approximately 90% lead 5% antimony and 5% tin.

I have not shot them yet.

I assembled a batch of 50 357 Magnum the other night. Going to go test them from the snub nose and bolt action rifle soon.

I'll tell you what I noticed immediate difference in how It cast. It was much easier to make better bullets. I am making 124 grainhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/7fccb504fc07444f217ad98c766efa1b.jpg hollow point bullets with a brass mold.

Just from how much easier it is to cast my intention is to continue to use this better metal. Casting the Lyman number 2 was truly enjoyable.

What kind of bullets are you making and how hard are you pushing them?

This metal might be a pretty good idea for 223 in the ar rifle. I bet you can make a lot of bullets from 40 lb of number 2 alloy.

Yes, 5% tin content will do that for you, but it is also quite expensive. Don't get me wrong, Lyman #2 has its place, use it appropriately.

I mix my own alloys from known components, my all around, do it all alloy is 94-3-3. Bear in mind that I am primarily shooting rifles. For my shotgun slugs and the few handgun rounds I shoot, pure lead or COWW works fine. 94-3-1 is what COWW alloy averages out to, according to member BNE's charts. Most folks add 1-2% tin to it, giving 94-3-3. You can't count on that average anymore, even if you can find lead WW's, so I started mixing my own. I know what I have, I know how it performs and I can alter it if needed.

Linotype, 84-12-4, can be cut with pure lead, 1 part lino to 3 parts lead. This yields 96-3-1. Add 2% tin, 94-3-3. Simple.

[Patrick L]

I'm in agreement with 45-70 Chevroner. I use WW with just a bit of tin, and I can't outshoot my alloy. I guess it's possible that a purer mix would theoretically be more accurate, but I can't prove it. Certainly not in handgun use, and I shoot NRA Highpower competitively with my cast boolits. I do weight sort my Highpower boolits, but only those. Like I said, I can't shoot better than my alloy will shoot.

[JSnover]

Little bit of a gamble where I could just buy pure and mix it exactly how I want. Honestly I like being able to recreate a load as closely as possible and after doing some bhn testing on some bullets I made a few months apart from when same type of lead I'd like something a little better lol
There was a really good thread about age-hardening a few years ago. I can't remember the the time frames but some alloys could get measurably harder after a few months. With a simple lead/tin mix you'll probably never know the difference but if you add antimony it might have an effect over time. Quenching might help stabilize things.

[quilbilly]

As a caster of fishing jigs and a few sinker commercially for over 40 years, I have avoided WW's for a very long time. Some of my jigs have significant detail and have to be somewhat bendable so that the jigs will have the right action. WW's in my experience have varied greatly in their alloy so that some batches were useful for nothing more than pyramid sinkers or other simple shapes because that batch was too brittle. Other batches could be turned into the more complex jigs. That is why I go out of my way to find roofing lead and Xray room lead shielding which are normally pure soft. With that pure lead I add tin as required and hard, chilled birdshot for the antimony to make just the right alloy (usually about 65% pure with 35% birdshot) for both target and hunting with rifles. I have found that pistols are nowhere near as fussy (except T/C's shooting bottleneck cases).

[centershot]

I should have stated this in my first response.

In answer to the OP's question; You may find it easier to find good accuracy by using known alloys, and may find good accuracy with less experimentation than if using unknown alloys like range scrap. I use range scrap for pistol bullets but my accuracy requirements are not demanding. If you're shooting in the Tuesday night Bullseye League, you're gonna' need better handgun ammo than I need, so a known alloy might be required.

[popper]

Pure and superhard form Roto. Don't use any tin but add Cu for HV stuff in BO & 308. Don't have any problem with fill out die to no tin. Between water dropping and added Cu I can get whatever toughness I desire. MOA @ 200 from ar10 with PC cast works for me.

[358429]

Hey wolfdog91 the experiment was successful. [https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211212/c5519112f27fad03b49928821b40c400.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211213/c40f682ce69a44269af4efcdcb2851ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211213/de75ac79e9d5d1b40a5fe2caab396dfa.jpg

[Green Frog]

My serious, precision casting was for schuetzen style events that demanded plain base lead alloy bullets to be fired from rifles at 200 yds. For the bench rest events in particular, the bullets had to be able to be placed very precisely on demand. For those bullets I cast very carefully from a single cavity mould using precisely mixed lead tin alloy in a 25-1 ratio. I lined the bullets up as cast and fired them that order. This was for two hundred yard rifle accuracy.

For handguns being fired at (usually) 25 yards or less, I use range scrap, COWW, and whatever else is laying around and throw in a couple of percent tin to make it flow well in my multi cavity moulds and call it good when I have a pile. Several decades ago I dabbled briefly with Handgun Silhouette, so I used a fairly precise home mixed version of Lyman #2 and exercised a fair amount of extra care with my single cavity mould.

Most recently I've begun to shoot some front stuffers and related arms for North-South Skirmish competitions. For those, I try to use the purest lead I can find for round balls and Minies, and maybe stray back to my 25-1 for the BP cartridges.

Long story short, I try to match my alloy (and the efforts I devote to mixing them) to my bullets and their intended use. YMMV.

Froggie