Measuring GROUPS ... make it easy.

[OS OK]

I hate trying to measure groups with a caliper & do the math...so I've been using a metal rule for simplicity's sake...

https://i.imgur.com/th6rscV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aoBqEvh.jpg

Here's a free program that even us ole'dinosaurs of the keyboard can handle.

https://i.imgur.com/O1QKk1j.jpg

Brought to us by 'F-Class John' on the YouTube...


https://youtu.be/AELFeMMQkow

EDIT...I HATE TO COME BACK AND ADD THIS! Maybe we can find it somewhere else?

https://i.imgur.com/STY3kH0.jpg

[dverna]

Charlie,

Could not find the app you have for Android.

I have used an app called Ballistic-X on my Android phone. I think if cost under $10 so not too expensive. It is a bit of a PITA as you need a 1" reference on the target. After dinking around with it a few times I went back to using calipers. I use NRA targets I bought in bulk years ago and put rows of stick-on dots on the back of them. I use 3/8" dots for the testing I have done with scoped PCP rifles. So, there is no 1" reference unless I want to add one on every target. That was the PITA part.

The Ballistic-X app works better with my CF groups as I use 1" aiming dots so the reference measurement is always there.

I don't save targets, so these apps that retain pictures are overkill for me. I am old school and record the groups in an Excel spreadsheet. From the spreadsheet I can easily calculate the average group sizes over multiple sessions and the SD of those groups to determine consistency.

Like you, (sometimes I think you must be my brother from another mother...LOL) I do not get excited by a handful of good groups. I have learned that even 5 groups do not always tell the whole story.

[Harry Tobin]

I do have Gordons reloading tool I use and it does have a target analyzer in it. I just pulled it up today so I’m not really sure how to use it yet (more stuff to figure out!!). But anyone who has Gordons can pull it up. As far as a stand alone free target analyzer, I haven’t found one yet. But if I do I’ll report back

292644

[Outpost75]

Just measure the extreme outside diameter of the group and subtract one bullet diameter for center-to-center measurement. K.I.S.S. principle.

[Mk42gunner]

Just measure the extreme outside diameter of the group and subtract one bullet diameter for center-to-center measurement. K.I.S.S. principle.
This^, if you absolutely need a measurement.

Change works too, dime, nickel, quarter, half-dollar, etc..

Robert

[OS OK]

I have been keeping an eye out for a quick & easy way to measure that looks a little more professional than my 6" steel rule. I am always posting targets in my threads about the vintage rifles, the MKII & the CZ452 and I thought that folks following the threads might find it interesting to see all the additional information these programs provide and...if there was any doubt in anyone's mind whether or not I am measuring these groups without a bias in my favor, well...that'd put those thoughts to bed too.

These programs have to be downloadable from somewhere, someone will come along eventually and clue us all in...me hopes! :bigsmyl2:

[dverna]

Charlie,
I never question your numbers. I am a realist. I do not care if you report a 7/8” group and some program says it is .89”. Close enough is good enough. When in the Wild World of Sport does .015” make a difference for practical purposes? If we were shooting to win pickup trucks, it would matter.

I am with Outpost. Calipers are fast, easy to use and close enough. IMO, measurements to .010” are far less meaningful than what 20 groups actually do.

[Minerat]

Try this one. It works pretty good for me.

http://www.ontargetcalc.

[Shepherd2]

I have to second what Outpost 75 said. Been doing it that way for many decades. Besides I'm the only person in the world that doesn't have a smart phone.

[lotech]

I seldom measure groups anymore, but when I did, I used a use an aluminum ruler graduated in tenths and twentieths of an inch. These measurements are repeatable (try that with caliper measurements) and plenty adequate for anything except formal competition for a record. You'll also find that the actual bullet hole diameter measurement in the paper is almost always smaller in diameter than actual bullet diameter.

[JoeJames]

Just measure the extreme outside diameter of the group and subtract one bullet diameter for center-to-center measurement. K.I.S.S. principle.Duh, there are times that I think I would have been a pretty good engineer, albeit a very very slow one. I have been measuring groups from what I estimate to be the center of the two furthest outside holes, knowing that was not exact. Your solution is brilliant!

[rintinglen]

The problem with you guys is that your groups are too small. I use a yard stick.:kidding:

[rbuck351]

I'm not a bench rest guy so if calipers outside of two widest holes less one bullet diameter get me within ten or 15 thousands it's more than close enough for me. There is nothing I shoot at that even a tenth of an inch difference in group size at 100 yds will make any difference.

[lotech]

I'm not a bench rest guy so if calipers outside of two widest holes less one bullet diameter get me within ten or 15 thousands it's more than close enough for me. There is nothing I shoot at that even a tenth of an inch difference in group size at 100 yds will make any difference.

Good reason not to use a caliper and simply measure with a ruler that has graduations of 1/10" or 1/20".

[OS OK]

Perhaps I'm on a search for something I really don't need...from what I'm reading here...

"The rule rules!"

https://i.imgur.com/cYEfNKQ.jpg?2

Good enough after all is 'good enough' ... this ain't no competition where we are splitting hairs!

[dverna]

Perhaps I'm on a search for something I really don't need...from what I'm reading here...

"The rule rules!"

https://i.imgur.com/cYEfNKQ.jpg?2

Good enough after all is 'good enough' ... this ain't no competition where we are splitting hairs!

Need is one thing...want is another...

If you want to measure to more precision than .025" inches maybe these apps have a place. But there certainly is no "need". At least not for backyard shooters like us...LOL.

BTW that was about as "inaccurate" my caliper measured groups where to the measurements from one app I tested. I found that centering the bullet holes just as challenging as using the caliper...must be my old fat and shaky finger.

[tazman]

The problem with you guys is that your groups are too small. I use a yard stick.:kidding:

I use a laser rangefinder.

Tight groups are great. Putting that group consistently in the center of the target is the goal.
It is those pesky fliers that always humble me.
Probably the loose nut on the butt stock and trigger.

[Bigslug]

Just measure the extreme outside diameter of the group and subtract one bullet diameter for center-to-center measurement. K.I.S.S. principle.

DING! DING! DING!

I do not have an "App" for that. . .or anything else for that matter.