Is there a FPS limit for pure Bees Wax Bullet/Boolit Lube?

[Oyeboten]

Just wondering...

Is there a FPS limit for pure Beeswax Lube, with Cast Boolits?

[TurnipEaterDown]

It's a multi variate problem, so, no, there is no honest answer you will get as to max fps.
What does it really involve? At least: Pressure experienced (peak & curve), bore roughness, barrel length, lube groove volume and shape, bullet alloy content, BHN of the bullet (not just dependent on alloy), bullet fit to bore (dia), taper in bullet if any, existence of a GC or not, etc. etc.
I used to experience leading in pistols long time ago using commercial bullets, so I thought what's all the bother worth?
Then I started to learn things, bought my first Linebaugh gun (pretty much had to use a cast bullet), and many years later experienced the old bummer years (starting 2008...) where to afford shooting rifles I went to cast bullets in them.
Now I shoot cast in rifles over 2000 fps and experience no leading, even in a Very pitted old 24-47 Yugo that was my learning vehicle under old bummer. No, I don't guess it's pitted, I bought a borescope and poked it in there. The bore condition would have horrified me years ago...

[John Boy]

No … but some good reading material …
https://www.wikihow.com/Melt-Beeswax

[gwpercle]

For many complex reasons ... bullet lube can be complicated ... pure beeswax doesn't have everything needed to make a decent lubricant .
There is a simple additive , better than the the latest formulations of Alox, that can be added to beeswax to make it a decent Lubricant that I've used in magnum handgun loading , 1250 fps or so and loads in 30-30 Winchester at 1600 fps .
take : 1 part Lithium Grease ( Lucas Red-N-Tacky is my grease of choice) and blend with
3 parts Beeswax
This was known as Lithi-Bee , I got the recipe from a commerical Lube maker , Garth Choate , when he informed me they no longer made and sold boolit lubes .
After 50 years of cast boolits I keep coming back to Lithi-Bee ... it works , I've NEVER had lead deposited in a barrel when using it ... Never !!! The formula can't be any easier ...
... 1 part Lithium Grease to 3 parts - Beeswax ... that's all there is to it .
Gary

[Outpost75]

The British .577-450 and .455 cartridges used pure beeswax, but it is not the best lube for keeping BP fouling soft. Works very much better with 1 part tallow, olive or neatsfoot oil to 3 parts of beeswax. For smokeless loads use 1 to 4 or 5 ATF and beeswax.

[gwpercle]

The British .577-450 and .455 cartridges used pure beeswax, but it is not the best lube for keeping BP fouling soft. Works very much better with 1 part tallow, olive or neatsfoot oil to 3 parts of beeswax. For smokeless loads use 1 to 4 or 5 ATF and beeswax.

Thanks for the Smokeless lube recipe . I'm a big believer in ATF ...
... will Dexron GM Spec.D-20265 or later be good to use in the boolit lube ?
I have a feeling mixing / blending ATF into beeswax will be a lot easier than mixing / blending the Lithium Grease (which doesn't melt) into the beeswax ... I want to try the ATF-Bee Lube ...it sounds interesting .
Thanks :drinks:
This rounds on me !
Gary

[Outpost75]

Thanks for the Smokeless lube recipe . I'm a big believer in ATF ...
... will Dexron GM Spec.D-20265 or later be good to use in the boolit lube ?
I have a feeling mixing / blending ATF into beeswax will be a lot easier than mixing / blending the Lithium Grease (which doesn't melt) into the beeswax ... I want to try the ATF-Bee Lube ...it sounds interesting .
Thanks :drinks:
This rounds on me !
Gary

Any of the ATFs work fine in blending the bullet lube. You might need to experiment with the proportions to get the consistency you want. As little as 1:5 ATF-beeswax works fine, the 1:3 has a soft consistency like the old M&N lube.

[Oyeboten]

The British .577-450 and .455 cartridges used pure beeswax, but it is not the best lube for keeping BP fouling soft. Works very much better with 1 part tallow, olive or neatsfoot oil to 3 parts of beeswax. For smokeless loads use 1 to 4 or 5 ATF and beeswax.

Thanks Outpost75!

I have Tallow and Olive Oil, and I have ATF.

[poppy42]

Do a search for Ben’s read here on the forum! Best stuff I’ve ever used! Quite easy to make just follow the directions!

[trapper9260]

I make the old NRA lube with bees wax and ATF and other things added to it and I use it in all the smokeless cartridges I load from handgun to rifle and no problems with leading, I have many years ago bought some factory ammo with lead bullets for my RH 44mag and when I shot them , my barrel leaded up so bad that it made me sick then , when I got back into casting and all, I do not have that problem anymore and make my own lube. Also with the help and reading I got from you all on here.

[Travisbishop]

Just wondering...

Is there a FPS limit for pure Beeswax Lube, with Cast Boolits?

I'm loading 170 gr cast with gas checks over 48 grains of WC 846 surplus. I mix a dab of alox in the wax. Kind of a hot load for cast, but it performs well

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I've been using the simple lube recipie from the sticky in the the lube section . Beeswax, vasaline, atf and 2 stroke oil. Been working extremely well and works great unheated through my lube sizer. Shot some 275 grain boolits yesteday out of my SBH over 18.5 grains of H 110 for about 1200 fps. Alloy was 20/1, good accuracy and no leading. I have a pyrex beaker of it that I heat in boiling water on the stove and i pour it into the lube sizer.

[gunther]

ED; Gary: While transfering dad's trouble box from one car to another, I looked at the contents. Pliers, screwdriver, road map, first aid kit, brake fluid, and a quart of GM type A ATF that was vintage 1960. Had to look that one up. Guess what the predecessor to Dexron was. Sperm oil. Saved it all , carefully.

[45DUDE]

ED; Gary: While transfering dad's trouble box from one car to another, I looked at the contents. Pliers, screwdriver, road map, first aid kit, brake fluid, and a quart of GM type A ATF that was vintage 1960. Had to look that one up. Guess what the predecessor to Dexron was. Sperm oil. Saved it all , carefully. I worked at a Chevy dealership in the 60's and when you bought a new cam and lifters you had to buy a can of EOS for warranty. It was made from whale sperm.[smilie=s:

[Kosh75287]

It was made of OIL from a SPERM WHALE. I doubt that ANY product of a cetacean's PROSTATE has advanced the automotive industry in any way.

[gwpercle]

I worked at a Chevy dealership in the 60's and when you bought a new cam and lifters you had to buy a can of EOS for warranty. It was made from whale sperm.

Whale Sperm ?
Do you think that might have been Sperm Whale Oil ...
although I would love to know why they are called Sperm Whales ... got to be a good story there !

[justindad]

Sperm oil… whale sperm… I just laughed until I cried.

[Thundermaker]

What is "ATF"?

[Dave W.]

What is "ATF"?

Automatic transmission fluid

[Beagle333]

I use beeswax and olive oil at 65/35 for black powder, but it's only going maybe 650-700 fps. For any other things, read how to make Ben's Liquid Lube. It will handle almost anything you want to shoot it in.

[Johnny Diamond]

Whale Sperm ?
Do you think that might have been Sperm Whale Oil ...
although I would love to know why they are called Sperm Whales ... got to be a good story there !From what I've read the oil was in the whales head and it somehow had to do with the whales navigation abilities (sonar) and the oil looked like.... you guessed it!

FINEM RESPICE ~ MEMENTO MORI

[Rapier]

Hum…..

[Good Cheer]

This thread made me wonder with the best of lubes what's the high end FPS velocity people have found with pure lead.

[Charlie Horse]

For many complex reasons ... bullet lube can be complicated ... pure beeswax doesn't have everything needed to make a decent lubricant .
There is a simple additive , better than the the latest formulations of Alox, that can be added to beeswax to make it a decent Lubricant that I've used in magnum handgun loading , 1250 fps or so and loads in 30-30 Winchester at 1600 fps .
take : 1 part Lithium Grease ( Lucas Red-N-Tacky is my grease of choice) and blend with
3 parts Beeswax
This was known as Lithi-Bee , I got the recipe from a commerical Lube maker , Garth Choate , when he informed me they no longer made and sold boolit lubes .
After 50 years of cast boolits I keep coming back to Lithi-Bee ... it works , I've NEVER had lead deposited in a barrel when using it ... Never !!! The formula can't be any easier ...
... 1 part Lithium Grease to 3 parts - Beeswax ... that's all there is to it .
Gary

I assume you use this in your lubrisizer? I might try this on 357 rifle boolits.

[Outpost75]

This thread made me wonder with the best of lubes what's the high end FPS velocity people have found with pure lead.

With pure lead you run into strength of material issues above black powder velocities. I have used soft 1 to 40 tin-lead alloy with gaschecked #429215 in full charge .44-40 rifle loads using 50-50 beeswax and olive oil.

[Walks]

This thread is both informative and HILARIOUS.

[waksupi]

I'm loading 170 gr cast with gas checks over 48 grains of WC 846 surplus. I mix a dab of alox in the wax. Kind of a hot load for cast, but it performs well

That's pretty much what the old Javelina lube consisted of.

[Thundermaker]

Automatic transmission fluid

:( Won't that give you the cancer?

[centershot]

:( Won't that give you the cancer?

You're not supposed to drink it, Thundermaker!

[Thundermaker]

You're not supposed to drink it, Thundermaker!

Probably isn't good to breathe the atomized fumes either, but i guess that's true of most things that come with firing a gun.

[kerplode]

Just wondering...

Is there a FPS limit for pure Beeswax Lube, with Cast Boolits?

Yes. 983,571,056 fps

[Smoke4320]

Whatever the speed of leading is in your gun