Deer #4 for the 327 federal. The Henry rifle finally gets use

[megasupermagnum]

https://i.ibb.co/j3mkqW3/IMG-20211130-083249316.jpg (https://ibb.co/j3mkqW3)

I recently returned from a Wyoming trip for elk, which was a bust. I found elk, but no reasonable way to get to them. Deer season is open here in SD, and on Sunday night I was considering when I wanted to fill the doe tag. I did not draw a buck tag for this area. I knew the earlier, the better, as I have another trip planned in a week and a half. I'd be hunting in my backyard, so I wanted to try something a little different. Being as I had been gone, and I didn't want to spend time checking sight in, I noticed my Henry Bigboy in 327 federal sitting in the gun cabinet. It was sighted in, and I never use the rifle as much as I should. Every time I take it out, I love it.

I went out to the garage, casted the 143 grain hollow points of 20:1 alloy that it likes. These are gas checked, and I have the rifle sighted in with 11.5gr H110, which is not a hot load at all. It shoots really good, best I've used in this rifle, about 1 1/2" at 50 yards with the Skinner peep sights. The next morning I went out and sat against my wood pile. I then had to watch buck after buck, including one that was at a least as big as my personal best so far walk by within 100 yards. I was watching a number of does out in the corn field eating, but they were 200 yards off, and the way I was positioned, there was no way for me to put a stalk on them. I'm glad I did not try, as around noon I grabbed my blind, and headed out to where they were mainly eating, and where I had previously brushed in a location for a blind. As I walked out, I bumped that real big buck and a doe, which had been bedded down about 150 yards from me without me knowing it. I had the rifle in my hands, but they were over the property line by that point. If I had tried a stalk, I would have bumped them for sure, and sent the whole herd running.

This morning I went out in the blind. Nothing moved until about 8am, when a few smaller bucks came by. Finally a short while later it seems all the does in the swamp came out at once. I turned to my left, and a nice fat doe was going to come by, about 20 yards from me. I'm a left hander, but ended up shooting this one right hand. Good thing I practice. She stopped 20 yards from me, and I sent the first bullet just behind her shoulder. She jumped, then trotted behind me. I flipped around, and she was stopped about 15 yards away, so I sent a second bullet. She then trotted off another 10-20 yards, got wobbly, and finally fell over. It is quite amazing watching the whole thing in open country like this. This was about 8:15-8:30. I just finished cutting her up, and took a number of pictures. All the meat is in the fridge, so I'll probably take a nap after this, and hopefully get a lot cut up before work. I'll be making sausage and jerky tomorrow.

I'll talk about the second shot first for reasons I'll explain later. The first picture is the entrance of the second shot. This is very impressive, measures about 5/8" to 3/4". The second picture is the exit of the second shot. Wow is all I can say. It is over 1" in diameter. It took a massive chunk of meat out of the entrance side shoulder, but thankfully it was not all the destructive. It mostly missed the offside shoulder, so that one is in great shape. This HP was no worse for meat damage than the buck I shot earlier in the year with a solid bullet from a handgun.

https://i.ibb.co/TW72hpf/IMG-20211130-083406351.jpg (https://ibb.co/TW72hpf)

https://i.ibb.co/Cm8rNp0/IMG-20211130-083712597.jpg (https://ibb.co/Cm8rNp0)

The next picture is of what is left of the lungs. Both shots missed the heart, so I got to keep that for once. Most of the lungs were shredded bad. This particular hole was about 3/4". This is definitely a LOT more destruction than what I saw from the solid bullet from a handgun. Both shots went through the lungs, but I put two shots through the lungs with the handgun buck too.

https://i.ibb.co/zfWX1nW/IMG-20211130-090038616.jpg (https://ibb.co/zfWX1nW)

Now I'll touch on the first shot. This one is a bit of a mystery to me. At the shot, she was standing there. She looked perfectly broadside. There is a hole exactly where I wanted to put one, the entrance looked very similar to the entrance of the second shot, although not quite as bloody. The mystery is I can not for the life of me find an exit hole. I looked all over. I tried to see if maybe she was at a different angle, but I can not see any possibilities. Directly across from the entrance hole is what appears to be a mark on the ribs. Maybe that is where the bullet dinged off. I then spent a good 10 minutes digging through the guts for a bullet and found nothing. I gutted her in one spot, right on the lawn, no way I dropped the bullet anywhere. I might have to see if I can get a metal detector. The picture makes the mark on the ribs look more obvious than it really is. There are other similar marks inside the rib cage, although not quite round like that. Hopefully I can have an update on this later, but as of right now, I can only assume that the bullet flattened out like a pancake, and did not pass through the ribs. I just can't understand how the second shot had gone through even more, and exited. I don't know.

https://i.ibb.co/bKrWDtQ/IMG-20211130-094516229.jpg (https://ibb.co/bKrWDtQ)

Finally I have a couple pictures to illustrate the chest of a deer. In another thread someone had made the comment that the kill zone of a deer is something like 14" tall, and it isn't even close. As you can see at least the first 3" over the widest part of the chest is nothing but backstrap. That bone is just bone. Also remember that the fat and fur adds even more to that. On a big buck, this area could be even bigger. If you put a bullet or arrow through there not only will you not find it, the animal will almost certainly survive. There is no void above the lungs and under the spine. This is what real "no mans land" is. It's meat. The spine itself is a rather small thing. The widest part of this does chest is about 8" for the lungs. Lengthwise, I'm showing 18", but that's right to the neck. Really the kill zone of this deer is about 8"X16".

https://i.ibb.co/MsTpSkB/IMG-20211130-100933777.jpg (https://ibb.co/MsTpSkB)

https://i.ibb.co/JdtNYRC/IMG-20211130-100958954.jpg (https://ibb.co/JdtNYRC)

https://i.ibb.co/MnPj7fy/IMG-20211130-101031628.jpg (https://ibb.co/MnPj7fy)

[Smoke4320]

Congrats on the deer and love the writeup

[tctender]

Congrats on your deer. I have a 12'' contender barrel in 327 but have not shot it much.Hope to change that soon as it seems to be a good caliber.

[ChristopherO]

The little pill does its job well when placed like you did. What was her reaction to shot number 1? Was it apperant she was mortally wounded and you put the insurance in with shot 2, or where you concerned that #1 may not be a quick kill?
Thank you for the additional information and pictures, as well.

[megasupermagnum]

The little pill does its job well when placed like you did. What was her reaction to shot number 1? Was it apperant she was mortally wounded and you put the insurance in with shot 2, or where you concerned that #1 may not be a quick kill?
Thank you for the additional information and pictures, as well.

At the first shot she jumped forward a few feet. There was never any doubt. At only 20 yards away, I watched the bullet go in. She did not seem to know what happened, or where the shot came from, so she stopped behind me to see what was going on. There was dozens of other deer around too, and they did not run yet. Standing still only 15 yards away, why wouldn't you send another shot?

I think part of it is the lack of sound. In a 5" revolver, a 327 Federal sounds just like a 357 magnum, they are quite loud. In a 16 1/2" barrel rifle, it's a whole other thing. It isn't 22 LR quiet, but it is probably ballpark like a 22 magnum or 17 HMR. It wasn't until a few minutes later when I got out of the blind that the other deer took off. There was one doe behind me the whole time I was shooting, and she stayed there a few minutes, and only ran when I opened the door.

[Orchard6]

Awesome story! It always amazes me how sometimes deer take off at the sound of a shot way off in the distance but other times don’t care even when they’re the ones being shot at!
Congrats on the doe!

[megasupermagnum]

I borrowed one of those simple hand held metal detectors, more of a stud finder than anything. I searched the guts, and was not able to find even a fragment of a bullet. I staked the carcass and gut pile out for coyote bait, but the best I can tell, there is no bullet in the guts. I do have a theory though. From what I remember of the first shot, she was looking back at another deer. I think it possible her body was turned more than I thought. I had considered that the bullet may have exited near the front of the shoulder, but inside the chest cavity, it sure did not look like a bullet had gone that direction. Today while checking out the hide, I found the following. I think this is proof the first bullet exited the same exact hole the the second bullet entered. Ignore the nick, that was my knife, but those two big holes are bullet holes. I don't know how they could have got there without there being two bullets. I think the first shot entered behind the right side leg, traveled crosswise through the doe, and exited mid leg on the left side. The second shot entered that same exact hole on the left side, then exited the right side in front of the leg. As you saw in the earlier pictures the entrance of the second shot was one gaping hole. It sure looked like one hole to me, but clearly the skin shows two bullets going through there.

https://i.ibb.co/VMP8B2T/IMG-20211130-093549289.jpg (https://ibb.co/VMP8B2T)


Along with that, I decided to chronograph the load. I have never shot a single round from this rifle over the chronograph. I knew they would be fast, but I'm blown away. They are going 1650 fps! That's a 143 grain bullet, going 1650 fps. I can't find any notes of me shooting this exact load through my handgun, but I do have it listed I shot the solid version of that bullet, a 148 gr, and with 11.5gr H110 did 1155 fps from my 5" barrel GP100. Call it 1200 fps with the HP. No wonder I never got a plain base bullet to shoot good from the rifle.

I really wish I recovered a bullet just to see what they look like. All evidence seems to show that the bullets held together perfectly, no fragmenting. I'll add it to the list of things to try if I ever get around to making my ballistics gel. I refuse to believe a 143 grain bullet going 1650 fps did not make it though ribs on the other side. The bullet would have had to have blown up inside, and the second bullet sure did not do that.

[Eddie Southgate]

I'm with you , went out the already existing hole . Good job .

[BJK]

Congrats. Excellent story and documentation. You answered the question I had right above this post (velocity).

Whoops! 2 posts above this.

[30calflash]

Looks like your 143 gr hp at 1650 fps would give the 32-40 a run for the money!

Great story and followup.

[Jedman]

Years ago I use to use a Hopkins Allen underhammer muzzloader with a short 20” barrel shooting a .440 round ball for deer hunting. I only shot 60 grs. Of black powder so the velocity probably wasn’t really that fast and the ball weighed about 143 grs. so it sounds like similar to what your 327 is shooting.
I killed a truck load of deer with that gun and many times the deer acted like you said, sometimes took a few hops and looked around like nothing happened then just fell over dead a few seconds later.
I was young and dumb and read what many “experts claim that the 45 round ball wasn’t really enough for killing deer and sold it stupidly. Now I look back at what a great lightweight deer rifle it was and realize it did the job just fine and didn’t need anymore power for short woods hunting I was doing then.

Jedman

[SSGOldfart]

Congrats on the deer[smilie=s:

[megasupermagnum]

A 45 caliber muzzleloader is probably an acceptable comparison, at least for closer ranges. You have to start a .440 ball at 1850 fps, so it impacts about 1580 fps at 20 yards, which is about what this bullet did.

I always thought 45 caliber muzzleloaders were cool because they lost so much speed. You can really get a ball zipping out of them, well over 2000 fps, they shoot like a laser for a short distance, then fall off the face of the map. You should always be aware of what is beyond your target, but sometimes it is nice knowing your projectile isn't going to go that far.

[scotth]

can you share with us what bullet mold your using thanks

[megasupermagnum]

can you share with us what bullet mold your using thanks

This rifle I was shooting the Accurate 31-148CG, I had it converted to a hollow point by Erik Ohlen with a moderate HP that brings the weight to 143 grains when casted of 20:1 alloy.

I've also shot that same bullet from the revolver, except the first deer was a spine shot, and the second a headshot, so neither was much to report. Both dropped where they were. The bullet I used in the revolver earlier this year was an Accurate 31-137K, I used that as a solid, and it weighs 139 gr cast of 20:1 alloy.

[trapper9260]

Nice write up , tells alot what the cartridge can do. Thank you for shearing.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Good hunting story, thanks for sharing. My recent deer using .308 ballistic tips have completely destroyed the heart. Would have liked to try some. My son had a Korean engineer over from his work and served some venison heart. Guy thought it tasted like dog.

[Hickok]

Outstanding write-up and pictures.

With the Skinner peep sight, did you replace the front factory sight with a Skinner-made blade/post sight?

[megasupermagnum]

Outstanding write-up and pictures.

With the Skinner peep sight, did you replace the front factory sight with a Skinner-made blade/post sight?

Yes, but you don't have to. I can't stand a gold bead myself. I have good eyes, and I still can't make a clear picture with that. I'll be brutally honest, the sights that come on Henry rifles deserve to go straight into the trash bin, both front and back. I've had $30 BB guns with better sights.

I'm almost positive the front sight on this Henry is also from Skinner, just a simple blade. I paint the face one coat white, then two or three coats blaze orange using paint markers.

[BJK]

Just for reference, check out what the .32/20 load was back in the day. I acquired a .32/20 barrel in a group buy and wanted to know what t was good for. 100 years ago (I hope I'm remembering this correctly) they pushed a 90 grain lead bullet near the speed of sound and it was highly thought of for deer and bear. Yeah, I know unbelievable right? You're doing better with your load. My point is that I would expect it to work fine. As Jack O'Connor wrote years ago, a properly constructed bullet placed correctly gets the job done. Today I push a 125 grain bullet to just shy of 2k fps in the .32/20 and was going to use it for deer, but I never got the chance. Authorities would say that it's not enough gun but I thought they were wrong. Still do.

[megasupermagnum]

Yeah, deer caliber restrictions are asinine. Believe it or not, the 327 federal just barely squeaks by the somewhat obscure South Dakota definition. This is a state that is trying to make blowgun fishing legal (and I fully support, I love blowguns). I was not alive when all these restrictions were first put into place, so I don't know what the original intent was when states did this. Now it is a case of being behind the curve. As more and more states roll out regulations for hunting with airguns, states will relax their restrictions by quite a bit. The old curmudgeons will still moan that now most states will allow cartridges as small as 32 acp, sometimes smaller. Well, a whole lot of studies have been done on airguns, and surprise surprise, deer aren't that tough. 30 caliber, 150 grain, at 800 fps. If that works when propelled by air, why wouldn't it work when propelled by burning powder? Myself, and just about everyone else choose to exceed that voluntarily. It's just another case in a long list that government should not be regulating ethics.

As for this rifle, I'm quite happy with what I see. It is pretty high on my list of choices for black bear next year.

[Hickok]

Yes, but you don't have to. I can't stand a gold bead myself. I have good eyes, and I still can't make a clear picture with that. I'll be brutally honest, the sights that come on Henry rifles deserve to go straight into the trash bin, both front and back. I've had $30 BB guns with better sights.

I'm almost positive the front sight on this Henry is also from Skinner, just a simple blade. I paint the face one coat white, then two or three coats blaze orange using paint markers.I agree with the assessment of the Henry sights. I have 2 Henry Bigboys and the factory sights are really worthless for me on these rifles.. On my .44 magnum Big Boy, the adjuster/elevator would jump the notches when shot. The first and second notch were totally worthless. If I put the elevator on the 3rd notch, it would stay set, most of the time. Put a older Burris 4x scope on this rifle.

On the .357 Magnum Henry Big Boy, like yours, I have a Skinner peep and the Skinner front sight blade. I really like a blade/post front sight, gives a sight picture like a Garand/M1a.

Just asking, because the Skinner peep required the taller Skinner front sight on my rifle to get a good zero. The factory front-sight shot too high. The bead was big enough to cover an elephants head at 100 yards!

These Henry rifles are high quality in my opinion, just wish they came stock with Skinner-sights, a high quality system also!

[Markopolo]

another one in the freezer for ya MSM!!! way to go and as usual, great write up!!!

[megasupermagnum]

I do like a post sight for big game hunting. This one is a little wide, which is fantastic if you are looking for a handy 75 yard deer carbine. I think this rifle has a lot of potential on small game too and the sight is a little wide for outside of shotgun range. I can't hardly shoot a squirrel at 50 yards anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.