Substituting steel shot with TSS shot? [Archive]

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faustus

11-22-2021, 10:23 AM

There is so much great knowledge around here .... so I thought I ask my question here.

I want to come up with a subsonic 12ga TSS load that would have a velocity of around 900 - 1000fps. The reason is ... my little 870 Tac-14 has become my favorite woods bumming/small game gun ..... but ufffffffffff ... she is loud with the 14" barrel and without hearing protection. :-(

( link to image (http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_Marine_Sept_2020_lowres.jpg))

So, I found a couple of published steel shot recipes and for which I have all the components.

My question now is, what would happen if I substitute the steel shot with equal weight of TSS shot of about roughly the same size, and add some filler to make up for the difference in volume? Would pressures go up or down? And why?

Again the substitution would be same weight .... so same payload.

Here are the recipes .... as you can see they are not subsonic yet .... one is close though ... I would have to decrease the powder load a bit.

Load with Hodgdon International Clays
(from the Advantages Manual)
• Cheddite hull 2 ¾, 12ga
• Cheddite Primer 209
• International Clays Powder - 18 grains
• FS12 gas seal
• LBC30 wad
• ¾ oz of steel shot (#7 or #6)
• 7800 PSI (SAAMI Max: 11,500 PSI)
• 1140 FPS (Speed of sound: 1125 FPS)

Load with Hodgdon Clays
(from the Advantages Manual)
• Cheddite hull 2 ¾, 12ga
• Cheddite Primer 209
• Clays Powder - 18 grains
• FS12 gas seal
• LBC30 wad
• ¾ oz of steel shot (#7 or #6)
• 9200 PSI (SAAMI Max: 11,500 PSI)
• 1300 FPS (Speed of sound: 1125 FPS)

Load with Hodgdon Titewad
(from the Advantages Manual)
• Cheddite hull 2 ¾, 12ga
• Cheddite Primer 209
• Titewad Powder - 17 grains
• FS12 gas seal
• LBC30 wad
• ¾ oz of steel shot (#7 or #6)
• 1050 PSI (SAAMI Max: 11,500 PSI)
• 1330 FPS (Speed of sound: 1125 FPS)

barkerwc4362

11-23-2021, 05:55 PM

The TSS shot and the steel shot of equal weight do not occupy the same volume. The wads used for TSS are not the same ones that should be used for an equivalent weight of steel. Just like lead and steel data for equivalent weights cannot be interchanged TSS and Steel cannot. Shotgun data is heavily dependent on hull capacity and how the total payload fills the hull. Just like in rifle loading you do not use lead data for solid copper bullets. Lead, Steel and the various composite shot (TSS, ITX, etc.) load data is not interchangeable.
Bill

Blood Trail

11-23-2021, 07:14 PM

You’ll be better off using lead. I have a Tac-14 a buddy gave me. Brand new. Added a brace, rail, and red dot. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/5cb6214ba07f930bbf7fd3ab317cea64.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/025c50ee70c94efb750aa6f159a5f743.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/c716850f6f803adf0eec7e44e92b82f0.jpg

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M-Tecs

11-23-2021, 07:18 PM

The shorter shot column will produce less pressure but the filler will increase pressure. The guys at https://www.ballisticproducts.com/ should be your best resource for data.

M-Tecs

11-23-2021, 07:26 PM

Hogtamer

11-23-2021, 10:30 PM

Got yourself a street sweeper there BT, the brace making it much more shootable.

Petander

11-24-2021, 02:45 AM

Faustus,

as you probably know,with TSS, you can use much smaller shot and it still penetrates. More pellets means better coverage.

I have loaded TSS with double cups, my 20 load uses a cut down (legs off) 28 cup inside the 20 cup. I can fit more than an ounce (I use 30 grams) in that tiny 28 cup.You want strong TSS cups for the main cup. I also wrap the inner cup in a mylar wrap to make sure my load is barrel safe.

Here in Finland we have a TSS vendor (Ammox) who have pressure tested their recipes. They sell the whole cocktail, all the components except powder.

Substituting shot only is not a good idea. My 20 load puts 170 holes in a pistol target @ 50 meters with buckshot-like penetration. Heavy is good!

Blood Trail

11-24-2021, 06:41 PM

Which pistol brace did you go with??? You like it? I am not sure I want to spend the money until the ATF ruling comes down

I love it (besides it’s Remington). Makes these shockwave style shotguns actually usable. Installation is a breeze, but it’s very easy to cross thread the buffer tube to the adapter. Bought it online for $98 plus shipping. Pm me if you want that link.

As for the ATF, I’m not concerned about them alphabet bois. It’s all a money racket anyway.

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Blood Trail

11-24-2021, 06:42 PM

I love it (besides it’s Remington). Makes these shockwave style shotguns actually usable. Installation is a breeze, but it’s very easy to cross thread the buffer tube to the adapter. Bought it online for $98 plus shipping. Pm me if you want that link.

As for the ATF, I’m not concerned about them alphabet bois. It’s all a money racket anyway.

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Oh, BTW, it’s a SB tactical brace.

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Cap'n Morgan

11-25-2021, 09:59 AM

a
As you probably know, with TSS, you can use much smaller shot and it still penetrates. More pellets means better coverage.

Just for the heck of it, I ran a 1/2 ounce, 1200 fps load of #9 pure gold shot (density19.3) through KPY Ballistic Calculator: 170 pellets with enough oomph to penetrate and kill a duck at seventy yards.

If gold was the price of lead, I'd be shooting 2" 410 gauge only. ;-)