Helping a scared new shooter get started

[AnthonyB]

Fellas:
I thought about posting this in Humor and Off Topic, but eventually decided this was the right place because I want to reach a wide audience quickly. Here is the situation: We got a call tonight from the mother of my oldest son's girlfriend. There have been some incidents in her very respectable neighborhood (same area where we live) that have made her believe she needs to keep a gun at home. She expressed some interest in getting a carry permit. Her husband is an Air Force officer and has service connected weapons training, but she knew from conversations with my son that I have more than a passing interest in the shooting sports and asked me to teach her to shoot and help with the decision on what to buy.
She is worried about the idea of keeping a gun in the house with small children. There are four kids in the family, with the youngest being six years old and the oldest sixteen. I asked the most basic question tonight, and she confirmed that she would be willing to use deadly force if required.
I'm planning to meet with both of them tomorrow night. I'm not worried about what shotgun/rifle/revolver is best; we will work that out over time. I'm interested in the issues we need to discuss and the questions I need to ask to make sure the family really understands the implications of taking this step. I have my list, but want to make sure I don't miss anything. Please don't think anything is too obvious, and no suggestions will be considered insulting to my intelligence. I really want to make sure I bring up all the right issues.
Standing by for the wisdom of several thousand years of experience....
Tony

[atr]

Tony,
if you have 4 "kids" in the family then my first concern would be safety and keeping the weapon of choice away from them...."kids" are a receipt for disaster
might be better to have her carry at all times as opposed to leaving it in a drawer or closet

[madcaster]

How about a 1911 design,keeping the magazine in her pocket while at home,or under her pillow at night or when sleeping and a piece of clear tape over the muzzle?
Quick to Load/Reload,plenty of safeties (3 you know) and major stopping power in a .45 ACP...

[waksupi]

Glad to see you helping her out, Tony.
First would be a trigger lock, or lock box.
Second, would be to train the kids, right along with mom.

[7br]

I do not have a loaded gun in the house. The chance I would need it vs the chance the kids or one of their friends would need it is fairly low. Last year was a different story. I do not have a ccw, but have considered it.

First thing that worries me is coming home to surprise a thief which just found my firearm.
Second thing that worries me is if I would have the nerve to shoot a person. I am not sure if I could pull the trigger and not sure if my subconcious (sp) would let me.
Last thing that worries me is would I have the mental toughness to handle it if I did have to shoot someone.

Is she willing to put in the time to practice so she is ready? Good pistol shooting and risk assessment is not something you pick up in one range session.

[mainiac]

Only thing i can say is that I myself have 2 kids, and i have multiple firearms. They have known from 3-4 years old how serious the guns are. They both shoot quite often and have serious respect of firearms. Kids should be taught instead of shielded from guns. Ones 8 now,and the other is 15, and neither of them go anywheres near the guns unsupurvised.

[monadnock#5]

Tony,
if you have 4 "kids" in the family then my first concern would be safety and keeping the weapon of choice away from them...."kids" are a receipt for disaster
might be better to have her carry at all times as opposed to leaving it in a drawer or closet

Yes and no. The kids should be intimately involved in matters of safety and marksmanship. Takes the "Forbidden Fruit Syndrome" out of the equation. If Mom feels she needs a gun to defend her family, the kids should know that, and aware of the dangers that makes Mom feel that way. In a life or death situation, the 16 year old (depending on mental age and inclinations) might be a life saver.

[Reddot]

Many good suggestions regarding gun safety and kids.

I want to add another level to this conversation. Have her practice, practice, practice with a .22. All of the skills she needs to acquire can be done using a .22. The recoil isn't a factor, the noise isn't a factor, and cost isn't a factor. When I am training women on firearm safety I use a .22 conversion for my Glock 19 for the first day and then progress to the 9mm after she has show proficiency and comfort with the .22. I don't think that it can be overstated just how invaluable the .22 is for developing good habits. All to often I see people coming into a gun store who have little or no familiarity with shooting, buying a larger caliber gun and developing all kinds of bad habits because the gun is too much for them.

[The Nyack Kid]

The reason she is scared , is because she doesn't know much or anything about firearms other than , guns kill. The more you can teach her about firearms (definitly get the children involved too) the more comfortable she will be around them .

I lean twards a double-barrel " coach style " shotgun for home defence ,myself .

[missionary5155]

Good evening
We raised our 3 children using and maintaining firearms. They are now responsible adults and have no fear of firearms and know how to use them. Our kids knew any time they wanted they could go shooting with us and were encouraged too.
We never had any gunrelated incidents in our home. Education and orientation.
Training and more training is the only way to help prepare for that moment of confrontation. My wife and I have been talking and preparing for years. It is ongoing.
It is not an easy thing to decide to terminate a life.
God help you .

[wiljen]

They make a lock box that uses fingerprint recognition to open, much faster than trying to find the key you put somewhere else when you need it.

As for choice of arms, my wife has several, but the walther PPK remains a favorite purse gun. At home, we both like the L or N frame 357s. A model 27 or 28 loaded with 38 special +P loads makes for mild recoil and quick follow up shots and the gun has a very simple manual of arms.

[mooman76]

I'd take a variety of guns. Start out light like Reddot said, have her shoot a 22. Play it by ear and work up to what you and she thinks she can handle so she doesn't get scared by a big gun before she is ready to handle it.

[3006guns]

I have faced this question numerous times in the past. My reply is directed to the typical first time "never even seen a real gun" person...male or female.

1.) kids in the house.......secure, locked box with fingerprint i.d. and bolt it down.

2.) guns kill.....yes they do, but brandishing it at an intruder will usually result in a "no shoot" situation. Failing that, one..and only one.... shot in the floor.

3.)familiarization.....very good suggestion, try various handguns at a range with ear protection and try to build confidence. Two handed, positive stance, short range shooting...perhaps eight feet to start. She doesn't have to be an Olympic contender, just determined.

4.)decide ahead of time to use deadly force only if no other option is available, but DO it. Never hesitate when the lives of your loved ones are at stake.

5.)If a handgun is chosen, I would recommend a basic 4" double action revolver over any auto loader. She would not have to remember magazines, safeties etc. Besides, most women have a difficult time pulling the slide unless they are quite strong so keep it simple and direct.

6.)Keep everything simple. An untrained person trying to remember dozens of well intentioned suggestions while half awake and scared will hesitate.

[DeanoBeanCounter]

My 2 cents worth.
Include my +1 on everything already said.
There are several types of lock boxes. One has four slots on top like finger slots with buttons at the finger tips so you can dial the combination in the dark.
There is what is called a Safety Bullet at:
http://www.safetybullet.com/
But familiarity might be the safest thing.
My Dad never locked up his guns but my brothers and I definitely knew the dangers. I wouldn't recommend this myself. It's just even very young children can start learning.
Good luck.
Dean

[Char-Gar]

which gun, safety and such are all valid issues, but they would not be my first concern. My first concern would be the mental and emotional fiber of the lady. Is she ready to take on the responsibilites of gun ownership and does she have what it takes to use it, when the balloon go up. Having a gun as a charm or talesmen to ward off evil is not a good idea. She needs to be ready to use it quickly and effectively. Is that where she is at in her mind. If not she is better off having 911 on her speed dial.

[NSP64]

alot of good info. I would lean toward a good 22 cal revolver. Stoked right it can be deadly.

[AZ-Stew]

I have little to add to what waksupi said, except for this:

There is a video called "A Woman's Guide To Firearms" (http://mle-shootingsports.com/p47/A-Woman&%2339;s-Guide-to-Firearms---[DVD]/product_info.html) that I use to teach EVERYONE who is a new shooter. Women, men, children, makes no difference. It features Mike Dalton and Mickey Fowler and a couple of Hollywood folks you'll recognize. It teaches basics and dispells myths. It's an excellent place to begin. Then comes some classroom time to answer questions and fill in any info you believe was omitted from the video (there's not much in that category). No live ammo in the classroom! EVER! Then it's off to the range for gun handling, sight alignment drills, trigger control drills and finally, some live fire. Start with a .22 and work up at the request of the shooter. Never push a bigger caliber on someone who hasn't requested it.

Include the kids in all aspects of the training.

Ear and eye protection (WITH side shields) for everyone at all times when on the range.

End with a gun cleaning session.

Regards,

Stew
NRA Certified Instructor.

[44man]

I can agree with one thing, kids need safety training at the same time and should be taken to shoot often. Do NOT try to hide guns from them. Turn them into responsible shooters too.
A loaded gun and an untrained kid is a disaster waiting to happen. Having to lock a gun can cost you and your family their lives.
Never look down on children, they are smarter then you think.
Before I got a safe, guns were every where in my house and even though unloaded, none were ever touched by my children unless we went shooting. They were like another piece of furniture and curiosity was gone from my children. Besides that, there are many cases where a child that knew how to use a gun was saved when a creep broke in with no other family member home.
Never make the mistake of appointing yourself as the only savior unless you are there 24-7.

[Wayne Smith]

I don't have anything to add execpt to second training the kids. My boys were shooting by age 5 and shooting my Single Six cause it was the only thing they could handle. At around age 8 they wanted a BB gun cause their friends had them. I told them "No, you can't have a BB gun, because a BB gun is a weapon that is treated like a toy. That's not allowed in this house. However,you can have a .22, because that is a weapon that will be treated like a weapon." They were thrilled, they had the bragging rights with their friends. Never wanted to show 'their' .22, they were well aware of safety issues. A .22 bullet hitting an orange is quite graphic.

[dragonrider]

Establish a safe room, one with an exit to the outside for an escape route or one that she can defend from the inside. In it keep a fully charged cell phone, mace, a knife, gun and plenty of ammo.

[Boerrancher]

I agree with just about everything posted thus far, and can not stress enough how important it is to get the kids involved. I have 5 children the oldest is 12 and the youngest is 3, I have rifle or a handgun in just about every room of the house. The children all know that they do not play with or mess with the guns in any way unless told to do so. I will now even ask the 3 year old to bring me my gun and point to it. He is quite large for his age and it is nothing for him to walk across the room and pick up my 94 Win and bring it to me. He knows how to properly carry it and to pay attention to where the muzzle is pointing. I have done this with all of my children to take as was already said the forbidden fruit allure away. My 12 year old has a single shot 22 and both my girls 10 and 9 will each get their own this year, as they enjoy shooting. I can't stress it enough, the kids need as much or more training as the mother.

Also if you decide on a handgun for this lady, a small double action revolver is the way to go. No safeties, no slides, and she should be taught how to keep the pistol in the firing hand ready to fire while loading the cylinder with her non firing hand. Also remind her that in a pinch with a D.A. revolver if you only get 3 rounds in before your assailant is coming at you, you can close the cylinder and start pulling the trigger. I have read stories about L.E.O.'s before most went to Semi Autos, being killed while trying to load the 5th or 6th round into the cylinder. Poor training and tunnel vision causes that. Help her and the kids be to react under stress.

Many posts have stressed practice, but it needs to be the right kind of practice. Simply spending time at the range will not cut it. She needs to practice retrieving the gun from where it is stored in the house, in the dark. Loading it in the dark, blind folded will work for this one. Have her practice drawing the gun from her purse or car if she is going to carry it out of the home.

Devise a series of practical combat drills for her of things she may experience during a home invasion. Have her and the kids come up with a code word that she can yell that tells them to stay put in their rooms in their beds. Nothing like having an intruder in you home and little Suzie waking up because she hears something and starts wandering around the house. Not a good situation for mom or little Suzie, great situation for the bad guy. I hope this helps some.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[45 2.1]

A semi-auto pistol with a magazine safety (such as the Hi-Power). Without the mag, which contains the ammo, its useless and could only be used as a club by the kids if they got hold of it.

[Geraldo]

I do not have a loaded gun in the house. The chance I would need it vs the chance the kids or one of their friends would need it is fairly low. Last year was a different story. I do not have a ccw, but have considered it.

First thing that worries me is coming home to surprise a thief which just found my firearm.
Second thing that worries me is if I would have the nerve to shoot a person. I am not sure if I could pull the trigger and not sure if my subconcious (sp) would let me.
Last thing that worries me is would I have the mental toughness to handle it if I did have to shoot someone.

Is she willing to put in the time to practice so she is ready? Good pistol shooting and risk assessment is not something you pick up in one range session.

7br is very honest about his own willingness to use a weapon, something rarely seen. It's the first issue that should be addressed with this woman who wants a gun. I believe Ayoob's book, In The Gravest Extreme is still in print, and although I don't like Ayoob and the fact that the book is a bit dated, I've used it with two people who talked about guns for self-defense. One bought a gun, one didn't.

Kids do need to be trained on guns, but given the laws about access these days and the fact that kids may bring untrained friends home, unsecured storage is not an option.

On the gun itself, don't buy into any sterotype about woman and guns. My wife far preferred a S&W auto or N frame revolver to a short barreled revolver-the typical "woman's gun." I read an article by a well known LE trainer who offered his very small wife any of his pistols she wanted-she chose a 1911 .45 because it fit her hands so well.

I would never recommend a long gun. They are great for the SWAT unit, not so good for the homeowner who has to carry children to a safe room. Also, forget the "when you rack a shotgun the bad guy will surrender" foolishness. I've seen suspects held at gunpoint by multiple officers fail to respond to commands. A rational person might give up, but someone who breaks into an occupied home is not rational. Also, the diffference in muzzle blast when firing a pistol and a shotgun/rifle inside a house without hearing protection is tremendous.

If they decide to buy a gun, don't forget a good flashlight. You shouldn't shoot at what you can't see-that's how teenagers sneaking back home get killed.

Finally, I highly recommend going to a quality shooting school. Shooting on a well lighted square range does not even come close to simulating the conditions one will encounter in a gunfight. Use of cover, low light and flashlight technique, use of commands, moving while shooting, and moving targets all need to be considered.

[3006guns]

+1 on Geraldo's suggestions.....

I didn't think to touch on kids/familiarity in my earlier post. Many years ago during a dinner party at my home the subject of guns and kids in the house came up. I calmly voiced my opinion that children SHOULD be aware of firearms in the house and taught to respect them. One of our guests (liberal, anti-gun lady) was horrified and KNEW that was just wrong...why, the very idea!

I got up from the table and retrieved my loaded S&W Chief's Special from the bedroom and plopped it down in front of my son. "Unload this" I told him. He put down his fork, held the revolver in a safe direction, popped the cylinder and dumped the rounds on the table. He then carefully placed the gun next to the ammo and resumed eating. He was five years old at the time.

Our liberal lady friend had no response..........[smilie=1:

My son is now in his thirties and has taken up reloading for a hobby.

[1Shirt]

To each his own, and there is much good advise here. My own personal preferance is two guns. The first a side by side double bbl 20 gage, w/shortest legal bbl. The second being a 3-4" bbl 38S or 357. The 20 as a bed side gun, w/a couple of shells reasonably accessable, but not in the gun. The revolver unloaded but with a speed loader or two full and available. Security of the weapons due to kids can not be overstressed of course. That however is a matter of training, education, and discipline. Like Boarrancher, I have had weapons of all vintages all over the house for as long as I can remember, and raised a daughter (now in her 40's) around them. She and the wife are both shooters although not hunters, and the grand daughter has been raised as both a shooter and hunter.
Range time is important, but not just a one time familiarization deal, but repeated familarization over a sustained period of time. Familarization with the shotgun can be fun with baloons for effect, and short range handgun training at 7 to 15 ft on man sized targets is the way to start kids in my never to be humble opinion. If there is a professional training course for women and kids available, that would be a must for me, as it is better to start them out with someone else than Dad for creditability. Kind of like teaching the kids to drive I think. It is important to stress that the firearm is a tool that will kill, and that can not be over emphasised.
This is why I think that the emphasis on hunting can not be overstressed. When a woman or kid actually has a kill on an animal or bird, there is a reality factor that sets in.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[MT Gianni]

If they decide to buy a gun, don't forget a good flashlight. You shouldn't shoot at what you can't see-that's how teenagers sneaking back home get killed.
.

Don't think that yours won't do that, they all will. Gianni

[Reddot]

I have faced this question numerous times in the past. My reply is directed to the typical first time "never even seen a real gun" person...male or female.

1.) kids in the house.......secure, locked box with fingerprint i.d. and bolt it down.

2.) guns kill.....yes they do, but brandishing it at an intruder will usually result in a "no shoot" situation. Failing that, one..and only one.... shot in the floor.
3.)familiarization.....very good suggestion, try various handguns at a range with ear protection and try to build confidence. Two handed, positive stance, short range shooting...perhaps eight feet to start. She doesn't have to be an Olympic contender, just determined.

4.)decide ahead of time to use deadly force only if no other option is available, but DO it. Never hesitate when the lives of your loved ones are at stake.

5.)If a handgun is chosen, I would recommend a basic 4" double action revolver over any auto loader. She would not have to remember magazines, safeties etc. Besides, most women have a difficult time pulling the slide unless they are quite strong so keep it simple and direct.

6.)Keep everything simple. An untrained person trying to remember dozens of well intentioned suggestions while half awake and scared will hesitate.

I have to disagree with you on that one point. If the lady is practicing correctly by your scenario she would be practicing that one shot in the floor before engaging the assailant. If she found herself in a situation where she was not in her own home in an emergency she would revert to her training and shoot into the floor possibly injuring or killing someone in the floor below. If you are in a situation where you are being threatened know the law regarding self defence and then don't waste any time or ammo. Shoot to kill.

[sundog]

This isn't so much about a weapon as it is about mindset, the active decision to not allow one's self to be bullied. It's about how you live your life. That transcends the final moment when lethal force is employed. There is no way that anyone can anticipate, let alone be prepared for every exigency, but with proper mindset it is possible to figure things quickly, thus leading to a correct response to a threat.

Perhaps the lady should attend something along the lines of the NRA's Refuse to Be a Victim course. First and foremost, the avoidance of a bad situation is most usually preferable to being in a bad situation. Situational awareness. Of course, this does not always work, and that's when things can go south real fast. That's where the training and mindset take over.

Jumping right off into firearms training can lull a person into a false sense of security. A weapon all by itself without the person having knowledge of how or when to use it can make matters worse.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the front end of something like this is brain training, and it probably should involve the whole family. It's kinda like fire drill. Everyone has to know their team role and personal role, and it needs to be practiced. Something as easy as everyone knowing where the rally point is.

[wildwilly]

After assessing my lovely wife to be a featherhead, I gave her a cannister of pepper spray. It is the safer alternative.

[AnthonyB]

Fellas, thanks for all the responses, and please keep them coming. I'll post the results of our discussion later tonight. Tony

[3006guns]

Reddot,

I will agree with you. My comment was intended to avoid any further confrontation...not to mention the civil action always follows such an incident. A typical attorney will have the poor woman believing that the whole thing was HER fault (I do not like attorneys). If the situation allows for a warning...either gunshot or vocal...it should be used. Much better explanation in a court room.

Interesting study done in prisons a number of years ago...convicted felons were asked what they feared the most during a burglary....dog? Alarms? Cops? Nope. Overriding fear was of a scared homeowner...male or female...waving a gun. One of the prisoners tried suing his victim although he was never actually hurt. He already made the statement that he was there to steal for his drug habit and God help anyone in his way. The very next statement out of his mouth? "That crazy bitch tried ta blow my ass away!!" He ran, then sued. Didn't collect either. Edit: I just remembered more about this incident. The bad guy was so scared he turned and ran through a plate glass window and was trying to recover his medical costs. The jury all but laughed at him.....

I should have said "one deterrrant shot in the floor IF the opportunity warrants it...otherwise shoot immediately at body mass." More that ten feet away...floor. Within arm's reach....body. Tough to remember if half asleep and scared. Training is the key for judgement.

The biggest thing I was trying to stress was that any individual, man or woman, needs to decide far in advance to fire that potentially lethal shot. Make up your mind now to act positive and be in control of the situation if it ever occurs. No machosim, not boasting "..just TRY to break into my place..." just a determination to demonstrate what any REASONABLE person would do in a horrible situation. THAT'S what sways LEO'S and jurys in the aftermath.

[Geraldo]

LE gave up the idea of "warning shots" a long time ago, and for good reason. First is the assumption that the round will be stopped by the floor. I've seen 00 buck skip off hardwood flooring, and I've seen 9mm JHP fully penetrate an exterior wall and kill an innocent person. You're accountable for each round fired, and if you ding your own child or a neighbor with a warning shot, even if you prevail against the threat, it's going to be the worst day of your life.

Even if your bullet is stopped downrange, once you fire the warning shot, the threat is going to perceive that you're shooting at him . You've just put yourself behind the curve as he now knows you are a real threat and he knows your location. Meanwhile you have to acquire a new target (the threat, not your neighbor's bedroom where you just put your warning shot) while he just fires at your muzzle flash. Another bad day out.

Fire in defense of life only, not in an attempt to scare or warn anyone.

[waksupi]

The LEO trainers I know, say if a threat is within 20 feet of you, you should be shooting. A guy with a knife can kill you before you can stop him.

[Junior1942]

She doesn't know beans about guns and there's kids in the house. That's a recipe for disaster. She'd be better off with a LOUD siren and strategically placed panic buttons.

[Hardcast416taylor]

What ever happened to that single shot shotgun called the snake charmer? It was in 410 and had a side mounted clip holder for shells. Something like that would make a decent house gun for the timid and to leave empty till needed. Number 7 1/2 shot can change a persons mind about what they are doing, especially when it is tearing up the wall next to you and the carpet also you`re standing on! Usually 1 shot is all that is needed to make a no-gooder leave at warp speed. :Fire: Robert

[waksupi]

She doesn't know beans about guns and there's kids in the house. That's a recipe for disaster. She'd be better off with a LOUD siren and strategically placed panic buttons.

Yeah, crack heads are really bugged by those, while they are robbing, raping, and killing. And the cops would be there in an hour or so.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I just realised that everybody so far has recommended a firearm. What about the most relied upon home defense, a dog that barks. Preferably a german shepard with a .45! :Fire: Robert

[Typecaster]

I'll chime in on the kid training as well. Maybe we went overboard, but our boys weren't even allowed to have cap guns. I didn't think it wise to expect them to be able to comprehend that it's OK to point one kind of gun at a friend, but not another. As they went shooting regularly with me, guns weren't a forbidden treasure. They learned safety, saw what a bullet will do to an orange and a jug of water, and even today (they're 30 & 28) their first question is how to check an unfamiliar type of gun to verify that it's not loaded...that included my own Colt SAA.

Richard

[Junior1942]

I just realised that everybody so far has recommended a firearm. Robert I didn't. I stand by my recommendation of panic buttons and a very loud siren. I can guarantee you 100% that those kids will one way or the other hold the aforementiond-a-bunch gun in their hands and point it and say, "Pow!"

[SharpsShooter]

She could just yell 911 real loud Junior.......

First- Safety training for ALL household members. I have kids and they know what is safe.

Second- Basic marksmanship and handling skills. Include weak hand.

Third- Simple tactical defense training. Include night fire and stressful situation fire.

Forth-Practice,Practice,Practice,Practice,Practice,Pract ice,Practice,Practice,Practice,

........and then do it again.

Always include the kids. They will be more calm in a crisis than you might imagine


SS

[uncle joe]

I can agree with one thing, kids need safety training at the same time and should be taken to shoot often. Do NOT try to hide guns from them. Turn them into responsible shooters too.
A loaded gun and an untrained kid is a disaster waiting to happen. Having to lock a gun can cost you and your family their lives.
Never look down on children, they are smarter then you think.
Before I got a safe, guns were every where in my house and even though unloaded, none were ever touched by my children unless we went shooting. They were like another piece of furniture and curiosity was gone from my children. Besides that, there are many cases where a child that knew how to use a gun was saved when a creep broke in with no other family member home.
Never make the mistake of appointing yourself as the only savior unless you are there 24-7.

44 man is right on. I have had guns in the house and all over it since before having kids. They were taught before they could speak not to touch them. They grew up knowing they were not to be touched unless we were at the shooting range or woods and only under close supervision. I would be worried about introducing firearms for protection into a home where the kids had not received this kind of instruction from the earliest age. As someone else here said kids are very smart and curious. If they don't receive the correct instruction and have it tested. VERY bad things could happen. There is a young man in my home town today that killed his brother chasing him around the house with a loaded shotgun. He was under 5 when it happened so he may not remember much of it, but his parents still live with it today. I would think the kids need more training than the mother, especially if the mother has been at least exposed to guns and shooting. She knows what the gun will do and the kids have not much of an idea.
just my 2c
UJ

[sundog]

I did not recommend a firearm either. I recommended training in situational awareness and the use of lethal force, operating as a family team, and how to neutralize a threat. That has to come before any choice is made to even have a weapon, let alone what kind of weapon.

[atr]

Actually Hardcast I didn't recommend a firearm.....
but I might suggest a can of mace backed up with a derringer loaded with a .410 #4 shot

[tommag]

When I was four years old, in the early morning hours, I went downstairs to the shop and got a 20 guage shell from Daddy's desk drawer. I then went upstairs to Mom and Dad's bedroom and put the shell in the magazine. Dad woke up and gently told me to go back to sleep, we would go shooting later.

He took me out and put a can of coke on a post and shot it with his shotgun at fairly close range. He told me that this was not a toy, and what it did to that can of soda, it would do to a person.

That had a heck of an impact on me. He had pretty much quit shooting by the time I was born, but took the time to get me shooting after that. I no longer felt the need to sneak around to play with his guns. At six, I received my first .22 and was allowed to take it out to the woods by myself. (I still have it, an Ithaca M-49)

My daughters have had the same sort of demonstration and lived with fire-arms in several rooms, most of them out in the open. They are not curious, since they have shot a bit, even though they have no interest in them.(Dang it!)

Current wisdom is to keep the guns away from the kids, but I think that familiarization is the best way to go. You still have to address the issue of other kids coming over to the house, however.

I know I have strayed a ways from the issue of training her, but I am not qualified to address that issue.

Just my two cents worth.

Tom

[Heavy lead]

Interesting thread, seems I agree with the majority kids should learn about firearms, to use, make safe, and understand the mechanics of them, and be shown the actual destructive force and finality of misuse. Always thought it was real interesting how some people could hide, misinform and label firearms viscous dangerous evil things and turn around and completely lie to their children about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and crap like that and set them up to distrust their elders from day one, never could get my brain around that one.

[AnthonyB]

Fellas; I met with the Mom and Dad tonight. I'm still processing the results and will post a summary tomorrow. Thanks to all for the input, and I look forward to using the wisdom of the board to craft the way forward. Tony

[corvette8n]

The instructer of the pistol safty course I took suggested a pump shotgun behind a hidden panel. He said when you rack the slide the intruder may flee.
You also have to think about wall penetration and people in other rooms that why training is important.

[atr]

Hey Heavy Lead.....
don't be bad mouthing Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny...OK