Lee collet die

[murf205]

I'm sure some members here have a Lee collet die for neck sizing cases. Tell me your opinions on it please. I don't have a way to measure boolit run-out but I [I]think[I] I would like the idea because my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.

[Three44s]

When I contemplate adding a cartridge to my mix that I shoot and hand load for, I always check to see if Lee makes a collet die for it. If it is not available, I do not automatically shy away from it but lack of availability from them does back me up some.

Three44s

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have several Lee Collet neck sizer dies and think they are the cat's meow for assembling ammo to be loaded for bolt action rifles and single shot rifles. In cartridges like 22 hornet, you greatly increase case life...others may vary.

I'm not sure about improvements in the case of runout? BUT, I can say, as to runout with cast boolit ammo for rifle cartridges, I have found standard Lee Seaters to be my main cause for poor runout...Poor design and poor finishing. I have replaced all my Lee seater dies (in rifle calibers) with Forster BR seater dies, I believe their design is best you can get for the money. Also, they don't crimp, if I want a crimp, I use a Lee FCD.

[1hole]

Choosing sizing and seating dies. ??? I do have a concentricity gage and I love it. Rolling a reload over a flat surface while looking for small bullet tip wobble is pointless, any visible wobble is huge.

Lee's Collet Neck Die used with a body die from whoever and good cases make straighter Full Length sized reloads than any other dies I've ever checked - and that's a LOT of dies! (Meaning that NO dies can consistently make straight reloads if we're using lousy cases with bad necks. But, carefully selected cases with lightly turned necks and small weight differences can make some very good ammo!)

We have TWO die makers that make excellent seaters and they are virtual duplicates: Forster/Bonanza's Competition and Redding's Bench Rest. All of the others are pretty much tied in a distant second place no matter what they're called or how much they sell for. I've found as much variation between individual seaters of the same brand as there is between brands!

IME, Lee's simple but tight fitting rifle seaters are generally in the top tier of the second place seaters; I'd rather use it than any other second tier seater of any brand or price.

Seaters with micrometer thimble heads help the loader when making small seating changes but those pretty mike heads don't do anything to improve the actual quality of the ammo.

[15meter]

my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.

I wipe the inside of the neck with Imperial wax on a Q-Tip, it seems to reduce the effort to pull the expnder plug out.

Not the answer to the question you asked, I've never used the Lee collet sizer but I've got a buddy who swears by them.

[243winxb]

The 223 expander can be had to pull out, using a standard fl die. Neck turn the brass or buy a bushing die.

Tested the Lee method on 243, requires 35 pounds down force on the lever to get good neck tension. Great work out doing 100 cases. NOT. There is a cam over method, i didnt try.

My 223 brass gets neck turned & sized in a standard RCBS fl die.

[murf205]

Choosing sizing and seating dies. ??? I do have a concentricity gage and I love it. Rolling a reload over a flat surface while looking for small bullet tip wobble is pointless, any visible wobble is huge.

Lee's Collet Neck Die used with a body die from whoever and good cases make straighter Full Length sized reloads than any other dies I've ever checked - and that's a LOT of dies! (Meaning that NO dies can consistently make straight reloads if we're using lousy cases with bad necks. But, carefully selected cases with lightly turned necks and small weight differences can make some very good ammo!)

We have TWO die makers that make excellent seaters and they are virtual duplicates: Forster/Bonanza's Competition and Redding's Bench Rest. All of the others are pretty much tied in a distant second place no matter what they're called or how much they sell for. I've found as much variation between individual seaters of the same brand as there is between brands!

IME, Lee's simple but tight fitting rifle seaters are generally in the top tier of the second place seaters; I'd rather use it than any other second tier seater of any brand or price.

Seaters with micrometer thimble heads help the loader when making small seating changes but those pretty mike heads don't do anything to improve the actual quality of the ammo.

Do you use the FL die first with the expander stem out of the die or the collet first when making FL sized ammo? As far as case necks, do you inside neck ream (L E Wilson) or outside turn? I have used every lube imaginable for my sizer but it still drags pretty good coming out of the die.

[dale2242]

If the brass I am using is range pick up I FL size it the first time.
Once it it fire formed to my chamber I collet neck size it.
The brass is collet neck sized from there on.
I seat all my bullets with a Vickerman seater.

[243winxb]

The 5.56/223 comes with or forms its own donut. A bushing can be adjusted to not size that far down. Most will not, even if you try.

Donut- https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/223-donut.2569/full

The collet die may not provide enough neck tension for an auto loading rifle, unless modified.

A Redding Body Die is needed with the Lee collet die.

[oley55]

Tested the Lee method on 243, requires 35 pounds down force on the lever to get good neck tension. Great work out doing 100 cases. NOT.

Interesting, using a Forster Co-Ax press I find it easy to over size my 308 brass to the point there are distortion marks left in the brass at the collet slits. Easy adjustment to fix that, but if it is squeezing the neck enough to cause the brass to flow you would think it would size enough to grip a boolit. Perhaps you got one with an oversized mandrel..?

To the OP, I am not certain what the results would be for brass that has NOT been neck turned. I only use LC brass sorted by year and head stamp variations, but still find some cases that can not be turned to my target neck thickness and they get tossed. I haven't really checked to see if it would be an issue, but in my minds eye, the collet would be pinching the brass slightly off center and more likely to negatively effect the very concentricity the collet die is intended to eliminate.

For what it's worth I believe the Lee Collet sizing die reduces brass work hardening. With a regular sizing die the neck is squeezed smaller and then the expander stretches it open (sized twice). With the collet die the brass is only worked/sized once.

[1hole]

Do you use the FL die first with the expander stem out of the die or the collet first when making FL sized ammo?

What I do depends on what I'm doing. Loading what's the "best" accuracy all the time is time and work intensive for no meaningful benefit. Thus, for casual shooting or normal big game hunting with my common factory rifles, I use conventional FL die sets used in the conventional manner. But, for target or varmint shooting with highly accurate rifles, the extra work is worth it and I suspect that's what you're after.


As far as case necks, do you inside neck ream (L E Wilson) or outside turn?

First, Wilson and Forster reamers are very good for what they're good for. Thing to remember about reamers is that factory chambers are larger than need be AND factory case necks are thinner than need be so removing the least possible amount of neck thickness to obtain a more concentric inside AND outside form is best. Bottom line, just reaming makes the necks thinner but doesn't do a thing about improving concentricity.

If I'm using standard cases for my cartridge (as usual) I will occasionally ream but not often and then I only ream enough to clean up the neck's inner surface. THEN, I will size and skim turn the outside enough to clean up about 70-80% of the neck's surface; thinning more than that for a standard chamber is counter productive.


I have used every lube imaginable for my sizer but it still drags pretty good coming out of the die.

Lee's collet neck die doesn't have and doesn't need a neck expander so no lube is needed or helpful. (And pressing harder to obtain "more bullet grip" is useless, we will never made the necks smaller than the central mandrel. That's okay because any smaller neck than a couple thou under normal bullet diameter is meaningless, smaller only increases seating effort and gives NO increase in bullet grip.

That said, I've never found that standard expander balls actually benefit from inside neck lubing. My measurements show that the modest expander extraction force does NOT seem to "stretch necks" but I still love a bit of inside neck lube to make withdrawal smoother; a thin trace of powdered graphite applied with a bore cleaning brush works very well for me.

Now, when using Lee's Collet Neck die in conjunction with a body die, which die to use first doesn't matter but it takes using both dies to endup with "conventional" resized cases with straighter necks. (And you need to understand that the popular idea of setting case shoulders back a couple thou from fired dimension is pointless; not only do fired cases fully expand and slightly contract in diameter, the same expansion and contraction applies to shoulder placement.)

P.S.: For what it's worth, Vickerman's old "open side window" type seaters are interesting and neat to use. But I've never heard anyone say that, on average, they seat any straighter than conventional (second tier) seaters. Fact is, ONLY Forster and Redding target type seaters have full body length sleeves that closely match serious Bench Rester's hand dies, and that matters!

[1hole]

Interesting, ... there are distortion marks left in the brass at the collet slits. ... if it is squeezing the neck enough to cause the brass to flow you would think it would size enough to grip a boolit. Perhaps you got one with an oversized mandrel..?


It doesn't take a lot of press lever pressure to reduce fired case necks to fit Lee's central mandrel and no amount of additional lever pressure is going to change those steel mandrels!

I believe the four slightly raised vertical squeeze marks sometimes seen on collet resized case necks are about how much the necks had to be reduced than any simple squeeze pressure. In fact, I believe we would push the aluminum top cap completely out of the die body before we could begin to cold swage that much brass.

[murf205]

I don't see how extra pressure on the press handle would increase the neck tension. If I see this correctly, the neck can only be sized to the mandrel size.
To get more tension, you would have to reduce the mandrel diameter, right?

[Three44s]

You can buy an undersized mandrel from Lee.

Three44s

[243winxb]

I don't see how extra pressure on the press handle would increase the neck tension. If I see this correctly, the neck can only be sized to the mandrel size.
To get more tension, you would have to reduce the mandrel diameter, right?
Yes, smaller mandrel.

Lee said 25 pounds on the press lever to do the sizing. I used weights to test. Took 35 pounds to get the neck fully sized to the mandrel, on an RCBS 2 press. My mandrel measured .241" for a .243" diameter bullet.

Custom mandrels may be ordered from Lee.

If you google, there is a cam over method that may work better? I didnt test it.

The trick is to get the same neck tension/bullet hold at each sizing of the necks. Just as i see it.

[tankgunner59]

I started buying my rifle dies I bought the three die sets. (All of my dies are Lee) When I tried my first collet neck sizing die I fell in love and bought one for each of my calibers. When I get a new set of rifle dies I get the four die set that includes the collet neck sizer. Best review I can give you.
Disclaimer; Lee recommends not neck sizing cases for lever and semi-auto actions, these are the only ones I don't have a neck sizer for. There are folks who use neck sized brass in levers and semi-autos.

[murf205]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I will try a collet die and see if my CZ 527 likes it. I sure wish I could find some Varget or IMR 8208. My rifle seems to like BL-c2 but it is dirty.

[1hole]

Disclaimer; Lee recommends not neck sizing cases for lever and semi-auto actions, these are the only ones I don't have a neck sizer for. There are folks who use neck sized brass in levers and semi-autos.

Lee cautions what "common knowledge" says; unfortunately, at least for most lever gun cartridges, common knowledge is wong ... again. I've happily used Lee's Collet Neck Dies for full power hunting loads for myself and others in both .30-30 and .35 Rem for decades.

[Iowa Fox]

I have been using the Lee collet neck sizer in various cartridges since they first came out The first one was for the 22 Hornet after a Rocky Raab article about his experience with it. On the 223 and bigger cases I full length every time with a Redding body die. I get straighter loaded rounds using those two dies than anything else I have tried including Redding bushing dies. It beats any thing I can find at any cost.

One added feature that doesn't get mentioned much is squeezing the case neck several times while rotating the case really helps uniform neck thickness. I think that's another thing that helps minimize runout. You simply can't beat that die. I think Fortune cookies did a you tube on uniforming neck thickness with the collet die.

Here's the down side. In 2019 Lee made a change to the collet so that it doesn't size 100 % of the neck. If your a cast bullet shooter you will not notice it. If your a 1000 yard match shooter starting with brand new premium brass its a big thing. Lee is abrasively adamant they will not sell a old style collet for any money. Believe me I have tried.

25 foot lbs of pressure on the die is way too much in my experience. Most people read the directions that come with the die and experience poor luck with it. Joun Valentine wrote an excellent article on the die that really makes the light bulb go off. I'm sure its on the net if you google John Valentine Lee collet neck sizing die. The press that works the best for me is a old Lyman Orange Crusher I bought when they first came out. I don't have as many presses as Pressman but I have quite a few. No other press works as easy or as well as the Lyman. And yes I do cam over. Lee sells different size mandrells for 5 bucks so neck tension is real easy.

To many guys apply to much pressure and all they do is mark up the neck from the collet, collapse shoulders , or push the aluminum cap out of the die which leaves the torn off aluminum threads of the cap stuck in the steel die body threads.

Lee if you see this take care of the faithful customers.

[1hole]

Lee's neck sizer has a moving part, the collet itself, and that means it has a learning curve that can't be achieved by reading any written "instructions." People who think they know it all when they simply shoulve a fired case as far into a die as it will go and pull it back out are unlikely to ever learn to use it to best effect.

[murf205]

I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.

where you only size half of the neck?

[1hole]

I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.

It's unlikely anyone can think up anything about reloading that hasn't been thought of and tried ... repeatedly.

Neck dies exist because they are necessary to properly neck size; FL dies just won't neck size properly.

FL dies squeeze necks smaller than they should be and have expander balls to stretch them back out to the correct inside diameter. Trying to seat a bullet in an unexpanded neck would simply require more force to seat and it would also have to be its own very poor expander.

Finally, understand that brass has a very limited elastic range. The residual overstressed neck "tension", or supposed "bullet grip", from excessive sizing without an expander ball would actually be no greater than if a proper size expander ball was used.

[W.R.Buchanan]

No one has mentioned that you need to squish the neck with the Lee Die and then rotate the case and do it again. This improves concentricity. These dies are best used on cases like .303 Brit where F/L sizing reduces case life to 1-2 sizings. Setting the shoulder back to original specs when it is already formed to a longer chamber is the way to separate cases at the head.

I have also used them on .308's and .30-06's and only get one reload before having to set the shoulder back a few .000 so the round will chamber easily. So I use an RCBS X Die for those cartridges. They maintain Case Length by blocking the case neck from moving forward during extraction of the expander ball. I have some Federal .308 cases I've loaded 13 times so far using that die.

But teh Lee Collet dies are excellent for sizing rimmed cases

Randy.

[Three44s]

I used regular neck dies for a number of years before switching to the Lee collet neck sizer. I also used regular full length sizers for a while before going to neck sizing.

IMO, a collet die works equally well on rimless cases as it does for rimmed cartridges.

Three44s

[jetinteriorguy]

The three best products I’ve ever purchased from Lee are the Collet crimp die for my .357/.41 mag, the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press, and the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die. I have plenty of Lee product’s I’m very satisfied with and a couple clunkers but these three are indispensable as far as my needs go.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The three best products I’ve ever purchased from Lee are the Collet crimp die for my .357/.41 mag, the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press, and the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die. I have plenty of Lee product’s I’m very satisfied with and a couple clunkers but these three are indispensable as far as my needs go.

I couldn't have said it any better.

[243winxb]

I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.

Most standard fl dies size the neck down way more then needed. This is so the die works with ALL brands of brass.
The expander pulling thru the neck, opens the inside of the neck to the correct diameter.

To necks size only, a neck size die is needed. A fl die should not be used to only neck size, on most cartridges. There are exceptions when the case body has a lot of taper. Like a 303 British.

[Three44s]

I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.

When a die maker builds a conventional neck sizer or full length sizer die the neck sizing portion of the die is most generally dimensioned to size the case neck too small. Leaving the sizing button off would likely cause a bullet to require too much force to seat it. In a cast boolit that would be way over done.

By using these conventional dies intact you are bringing the seating force required back to a more reasonable level but brass is still likely getting overworked.

The best combinations are a body die (does not touch the neck) and either a Lee collet die or a neck sizing bushing die. The latter being the very best but more expensive.

Three44s

[ubetcha]

Has anyone ever noticed that some brass have a primer flash hole that is not centered on the primer pocket? When using the Lee collet set ,the mandrel uses the flash hole as centering point. If the hole is off center, the neck may not be concentric with the body. Of course, that may be true with all dies using the decapper pin.

[Iowa Fox]

Yesterday in a quest for a old style Lee collet neck sizer. I received another 6mm Creedmoor die. I knew it was going to be a new style when I ordered but was willing to spend the money just to see whats what. New style can be identified by the notched/serrated lock rings. In the same family of cartridges I have two dies for the 6.5 Creedmoor and now 2 dies for the 6mm Creedmoor. This is what I found.

I'm going to post some overall length measurements of the dies I have to give you guys an idea of why I was whining.

First two dies are my 6.5 creedmoor collet neck sizer dies old style with hex lock nuts

6.5 CM die #1 Sleeve Collet
1.375 1.844

6.5 CM Die #2 1.375 1.836

Second are the two 6mm creedmoor new style with serrated lock nuts Die #2 is the one Grant lined up for me, Die #1 is the one that gave me the heart burn

6mm CM Die #1 Sleeve collet
1.376 1.768

6mm CM Die #2 1.375 1.808


The sleeves are consistent on oal but the collets are all over the board . Really leaves me scratching my head about their machining process. Did Lee add back some length after they shortened the collet to appease Mic McPhearson and hate to admit publicly they laid an egg. Hard to tell with numbers all over the board.

The 6mm die#1 is the one that was giving me the heartburn. No wonder! Look how short the collet is.

[1hole]

Has anyone ever noticed that some brass have a primer flash hole that is not centered on the primer pocket? When using the Lee collet set ,the mandrel uses the flash hole as centering point. If the hole is off center, the neck may not be concentric with the body.

First, you're right about that small off-center angle but, IMHO, it's unlikely to make much difference in a Lee collet sized neck.

Second, I only use Lee's Collet Die (along with a body die) on my most precise ammo. After that I discard any cases with a visible off-center flash hole. Then comes (light) neck turning, primer pocket uniforming, flash hole uniforming and deburring, case length uniforming/chamfering and weight segregating. After all of that, my processed cases of any brand have very good qualities.
(All meaning that using Lee's collet neck die is only a step in the right direction, it's NOT the sum total of making good cases out of common brass.)

THEN, it's off to the range to confidently develop a load that shoots well! :)

[David2011]

Back to one of Murf’s original points, it’s not hard to fix the difficult extraction of the expander ball.

Remove the expander stem from the die and chuck it up in a hand drill, lathe or drill press. Lube it with very light oil or WD-40. Polish the ball with 320, 400 and 600 Wet-or-Dry. Go easy so the diameter isn’t reduced; just smooth the roughness. Clean with your favorite solvent and reassemble.

I’ve done this many times to expanders that were so tight they squeaked when drawn through the necks and required substantial effort. After, extraction was much easier and silent.

[Iowa Fox]

I almost never use expander balls. I size and then use a lyman M die. Cases stay a lot straighter and I can control neck tension much better

[Three44s]

As the OP used the 223 cartridge as a basis for discussion, I would add in that context that the very best combo would be a neck sizer die that uses interchangeable bushings plus a body die.

The next best and quite a bit less expensive would be a Lee collet die.

Either of these approaches would be augmented by outside neck turning to get consistent neck thickness and uniformity. One must be aware of thinning necks too much however.

Lee makes under and (I believe) oversized mandrels for their collet die. With a bushing die, you try different size bushings.

The goal here is to reduce overworking of the case neck and optimize neck tension.

Conventional full length and neck dies create more overworking and also cause spring back where the case is still responding to the previous excessive force applied by the initial squeeze.

Three44s

[RayF]

I'm sure some members here have a Lee collet die for neck sizing cases. Tell me your opinions on it please. I don't have a way to measure boolit run-out but I think I would like the idea because my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.

Assuming this is not for an AR, a Lee Collet is a great part of truly customized case prep. You’ll still need to bump the shoulder. Its my personal experience that polishing the stem of a Lee full body die and lubing inside the necks (as well as the external case) ensures the case won’t get stuck.

[jmorris]

Seaters with micrometer thimble heads help the loader when making small seating changes but those pretty mike heads don't do anything to improve the actual quality of the ammo.

This simple fixture and a dial indicator will allow precise adjustment of any die for less than the cost of a single “micrometer” die.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssw-AbNH7N4

[jmorris]

…I would like the idea because my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.

What is the diameter of a sized case without the expander in the die and what is it with the expander in the die?

The suggestions on turning would obviously effect wall thickness, so a case that has been turned and ran through your die will have a smaller ID than an unturned case in the very same die. That, in and of itself, could make all the difference.

What lube are you using?

There are other ways to “skin the cat”. Bushing dies allow you to pick the OD you want the outside, so you are not squeezing the neck down as much then expanding it back out, working the brass more than necessary.

Sinclair makes push in expanders that have a long taper and Dillon uses carbide on their dies. Both are better than most other expanders as far as force required.

I do own collet dies but I don’t use them on calibers that I also own auto loaders so chambered.

[Three44s]

Quote from jmorris:

“I do own collet dies but I don’t use them on calibers that I also own auto loaders so chambered.“

I segregate but it’s a challenge. I do not own a body die in 223 but if you had one, you could theoretically find a happy medium adjustment where ones autoloaders, bolt and single shots could digest the same processed brass.

Three44s

[Toolmaker TN]

I've used the Lee collet dies since they first came out. I have them in every caliber they make them in that I load for. They are the best thing I've ever used for their intended purpose.

There are a couple of points of advice I could offer concerning them, based on long use, and learning a few things the hard way:

1) As some have noted, the dies can take excessive force when sizing case necks. There is a reason for this.
The reason comes from the mechanism of the collet. There is an angled surface at the top outer portion of the collet, which moves against a mating surface in the die to close the collet and the case neck against the mandrel. When the press handle is lowered, the collet springs back to it's original position, allowing for easy extraction of the case. You cannot size the case neck smaller than the mandrel, and the neck will in fact spring away from the mandrel slightly, causing easy extraction. When you have to use an excessive amount of force to either size a case neck or to extract a case from the die, it's nothing you are doing wrong (assuming you have the die set up according to the instructions).
If you take the die apart, you will see that there is probably some roughness on the angled surface of the collet, or it's mating surface. That roughness will cause the surfaces to gall, resulting in having to use an excessive amount of force to size a case neck.
Then if the galling continues, when you lower the press handle the collet remains in the closed position, as it has stuck there. This will cause the case to be difficult to remove from the die, as you are having to drag the collet down into the open position with the case before the collet has moved enough to release it's hold on the neck.
This can be checked when you take the case out. The collet should be loose in the die, you should be able to move it easily. If not, it's because it's stuck part way through it's cycle of movement. The collet isn't fully opened enough for a fired case. If you've ever crushed a case neck/shoulder trying to resize it, that's why.
The dies also come with a lube on them for protection. It works during storage and shipment, but in using the die, it can also cause the angled surfaces on the collet and mating surface in the die to stick. It should be removed from the inside of the die; especially on the angled portion of the collet, and it's mating surface.
I then use a dry lubricant (I use Dri-Slide, with moly) to coat both surfaces.
This should make the die function as it's intended. You should now be amazed at how easy the die works. These dies should be almost effortless in use.

2) You can control the amount of neck tension (down to the size of the mandrel) by adjusting the die body to your desired neck size. If you need to go smaller, then a small mandrel would be required.

3) You can use a Lee die for other cartridges of the same caliber. For example, I use a .35 Rem Lee die, with a custom spacer (could just use washers), to size .358 Win. I could size my .35 Whelen cases if I didn't already have a Lee die in this caliber.

4) You can use standard caliber Lee collet dies to size Ackley Improved cartridges. This is due to the shoulder and body clearance in the collet design. I load cast and jacketed in .223AI, .22-50AI, and .257AI, all with the standard dies. No custom Lee dies needed, unless they don't make a standard die in that caliber.

[Tim357]

I almost never use expander balls. I size and then use a lyman M die. Cases stay a lot straighter and I can control neck tension much better

this ^^^^^^

[1hole]

I do own collet dies but I don’t use them on calibers that I also own auto loaders so chambered.

Why?

[RayF]

Why?

Neck-sizing allows the case to fit more snuggly in the chamber. This provides a more consistent ignition and bullet jump. Its also a characteristic that works against auto-loaders, since their chambers are more “loose” to facilitate reliability. Buffer/recoil/return springs are tuned to provide a balance of full stroke and full forward extension of the bolt. Neck sizing allows the other dimensions of the case to remain expanded. Expanded cases in autoloader chambers creates a high potential for failure to fully feed.

[Three44s]

Collet only sized brass may chamber or not but the lack of primary extraction in autoloaders, pumps and lever guns is likely to cause sticking brass after firing.

Three44s

[1hole]

I appreciate all the basic thoughts about the commonly supposed values of neck sizing but that wasn't what I asked about.

My specific question to Mr. Morris is why does he not neck size for ammo that's duplicated in caliber for his autos and others.

[jetinteriorguy]

I use the Lee collet neck sizing die all the time in my autoloaders. But I also full length size them with a Redding body sizing die first. It’s an extra step but I consistently get runout of less than .001” all the time and never a single issue with feeding or extraction.

[Iowa Fox]

I use the Lee collet neck sizing die all the time in my autoloaders. But I also full length size them with a Redding body sizing die first. It’s an extra step but I consistently get runout of less than .001” all the time and never a single issue with feeding or extraction.

The Lee collet neck sizer used with the Redding body die can't be beat by dies at any price.

Rumor has it Lee is going back to the original collets in 2022. I hope so.

[jmorris]

Why?



Not recommended for autoloaders, slide or lever action guns.


Is the last sentence in the product description, here.

https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/lee-collet-dies/

And I use Dillon carbide .223 dies for all of my autoloader ammunition, processed and loaded on progressives, mostly mixed brass fired from many different firearms, for plinking, playing with machineguns, 3 gun matches, steel and other causal target shooting.

Neck sizing might be Ok for brass fired from the same chamber but if a case is already formed to a larger chamber, the collet die just won’t work.

Even if I am loading for one rifle, I generally don’t use just neck sizers anyway. I just set a regular die so it doesn’t move further down the tapered case than necessary.

This is how I do it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWkcLPYOac

Works even for a benchrest rifles that will agg in the .2’s. I suggest Harrels custom dies if that’s your goal though.

[1hole]

This is how I do it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWkcLPYOac

I suggest Harrels custom dies if that’s your goal though.

Okay. But my question was WHY you choose to neck size for some rifles but not for other (same case) rifles. You obviously want ammo interchangeability without having to keep up with what box of ammo goes where so you have answered my question, thanks. I, like a lot of others, prefer to develop individual (custom) reloads for best accuracy for each of my individual rifles and how they are used. Neither method is "right" or "wrong", we just have a difference in end goals.

So far as neck sizing goes, I've never found better accuracy or case life due to neck sizing, as such. But, "FL" sizing with Lee's Collet and a properly adjusted body die DOES produce slightly better accuracy because, on average, the finished necks are measurably straighter. (And my cases do last a bit longer before neck splitting when I use a Lee collet die with a body die.)

As a side issue, I believe the frequent cautions against neck sizing for lever guns in .30-30 and .35 Rem are vastly overstated. Those are modest pressure rounds. Neck sizing those cases works wonderfully and even with full pressure reloads they seem to last forever.

[jmorris]

Okay. But my question was WHY you choose to neck size for some rifles…

Short answer is, because that’s what finally worked, to get them to shoot well.

I have a van horn contender barrel in .22 Hornet that was around an 1-1.5 MOA barrel, with loads it liked and one day discovered that if I sized, just the portion of the neck that held the bullet (not just neck sizing but only a portion of the neck) and left the rest of the case blown out, it shrunk the groups down to ~.375”. Well, that’s all I load for that barrel anymore.

[Iowa Fox]

Redding body die plus the Lee collet neck sizer. Every time.

Rumor floating around Lee is going back to the original collet in the neck sizer for 2022. I sure hope so as it would restore my confidence in Lee.