Looking for Recommendations - Old West .22 RF Rifle

[36g]

I'm looking for recommendations for a 1885 or earlier model (old or new made) .22 rifle for movie use. Of course the cheaper the better as most movie set users are not very considerate in care of firearms (so no rare/highly collectible varieties). Any suggestions?

[marlinman93]

I'm looking for recommendations for a 1885 or earlier model (old or new made) .22 rifle for movie use. Of course the cheaper the better as most movie set users are not very considerate in care of firearms (so no rare/highly collectible varieties). Any suggestions?

When you narrow it down to pre 1885, it makes the number you choose from much smaller too! They did make a #1 full sized Rolling Block in .22 rimfire, but the smaller #1 1/2, #2, #4, #6 are all post 1885. Ballard had their little #3 in .22 rimfire from 1875 on to the end in 1890, and virtually unchanged for the most part during it's entire life.
Maynards were also in .22 rimfire.
The issue is if these are going to be manhandled by those who wont take care with them, you're jeopardizing valuable firearms in every case. So might be best to purchase a newly made Pedersoli #2 and hope the viewers don't know they were originally made a bit after 1885.

[36g]

Thanks.Thus far a Mini Sharps (Chiappa) seems to be one of the few things being made. Of course no one has any at the moment...

Luckily, I don't have a script that calls for one at the moment either ;-).

[Gewehr-Guy]

Did Stevens make a Tip-Up rifle in .22 Long, or did they come later? That design would look appropriate for the 1880's.

[M-Tecs]

The Mini Sharps never existed until very modern times.

The Hopkins-Allen are sold out at C Sharps
http://csharpsarms.com/catalog-detail/507/Hopkins-Allen-currently-sold-out.html

Gunbrokers has several but currently only one listed

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/915746240

The Stevens would be a good choice.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/this-old-gun-stevens-favorite-no-17/

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/913958216

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/915831776

https://www.gunbroker.com/Single-Shot-Rifles/search?Keywords=stevens%20favorite

And my personal favorite Winchester 1885 Highwalls and Low Walls

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/916359617 This one is very interesting with the additional sights.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/916142475

rollers

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/910638733

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/911109029

[36g]

Thanks for the references! I believe the Steven's are technically post 1885 but they might work okay. Certainly less expensive than the Hopkins-Allen (it is nice though).

[M-Tecs]

Thanks for the references! I believe the Steven's are technically post 1885 but they might work okay. Certainly less expensive than the Hopkins-Allen (it is nice though).

For the Favorites I believe that is correct however they were making other models before 1885.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens_Arms

[marlinman93]

Thanks for the references! I believe the Steven's are technically post 1885 but they might work okay. Certainly less expensive than the Hopkins-Allen (it is nice though).

The Stevens Tip Up models would date to the pre 1885 era. At least they did make some prior to 1885. But a Tip Up today is also a collectible model, and even a beater wont be cheap.

[Rapier]

Probably the Frank Wesson rifle or even a Frank Wesson bicycle gun would fit your needs. They usually do not bring tons of money at sale, are breach loading, rim fire guns in different calibers, 22-44 designed in 59 and built in 59-88. You could find a 32 and claim it was a 22 in a film, no one would know the difference.

[Green Frog]

Probably the Frank Wesson rifle or even a Frank Wesson bicycle gun would fit your needs. They usually do not bring tons of money at sale, are breach loading, rim fire guns in different calibers, 22-44 designed in 59 and built in 59-88. You could find a 32 and claim it was a 22 in a film, no one would know the difference.

And there are (or recently were) crimp style 32 blanks available for nail guns. I don’t know what the script will call for and how close the shot (showing the loading of the gun) will be, but this may be your cheapest option for a good early style gun such as a boy might use squirrel hunting, etc. Thirty two rim fires are about as cheap as anything out there and more so with a poor bore… which will have no effect on your intended use. You may also find 25 rf examples and likewise use 25 cal crimped blanks intended for nail guns.

Froggie

[36g]

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll expand my search list!

[John Taylor]

If you are making a movie that takes place before 1885 you will need a gun that looks almost new. Also the 22LR didn't come out til 1884 ( 22 short 1857 and long 1871).

[36g]

Funny thing about new looking guns. It seems that most directors have this idea that old west firearms should look well worn. I've tried to convince some of them that there were new firearms being used and have had mixed success...

[Txcowboy52]

Are you sure you want a real one ? Some one with no firearms experience or knowledge of proper gun safety might shoot their self or someone else. Seems like this happened recently.

[36g]

I'm aware of the Rust situation and have my own opinions on that. I've worked as an armorer on multiple movies and the failures on Rust all along the way are abysmal. That being said, for a variety of reasons I do think that there is value to having real firearms on set at least for certain scenes. HOWEVER, as with any firearm use proper safety measures MUST be in place.

[Jedman]

Really there weren’t many pre 1885 22 rimfire rifles except a few that shot the short black powder rimfire cartridges. The Winchester M 1873 was chambered in 22 but not until 1884 I believe and I am sure there are probably plenty of 1873 prop guns.
I read the lever action gun that John Wayne had on the raft in the movie Rooster Cogburn was a plastic Daisy BB gun and no one knew the difference. I owned one that was a model of a M 1894 lever rifle and it looked pretty real at a distance. Maybe a old flobert rifle they were around before 1885 and were rimfires ?

Jedman

[John Taylor]

With the modern technology in movie making there is no need to have a real gun when filming.

[Bent Ramrod]

The Ethan Allen falling blocks started manufacture in the late 1860’s, IIRC. The ones I’ve seen were all in rimfire calibers, and I saw one once in .22 Long. Really nice shape, and even had the little square wrench for the takedown screw still in the sliding-door storage cavity in the buttstock.

Something as weird looking as that rifle would no doubt make itself a movie star in its own right, like the Sharps rifle in Quigley Down Under, the Nautilus in the 20,000 Leagues movie and the time machine in the movies of that name.

[marlinman93]

I think John makes a very good point about the condition of guns used in movies. I always chuckle when I watch a western and all the guns look 100 years old. It's supposed to be period or era correct, and all the guns should look like the new guns they actually had then!

[M-Tecs]

I think John makes a very good point about the condition of guns used in movies. I always chuckle when I watch a western and all the guns look 100 years old. It's supposed to be period or era correct, and all the guns should look like the new guns they actually had then!

Same of a lot of the buildings. Historically they should only be a couple of years old.

[36g]

The new guns aspect is valid, however, there is a role for old, worn firearms also. I discussed this with a director for a movie that I worked on last fall. The time period was 1880 in a small, remote mountain mining town. I convinced the director that it would be entirely appropriate to have some C&B revolvers used by miners and a variety of cartridge conversion revolvers along with a few "modern" SAA's, Schofields, and 1875 Remingtons. The reasoning was that miners weren't flush with money and a cartridge conversion would run about $7. whereas a new SAA would be in the vicinity of $25. The C&B's and the cartridge conversions were aged and the SAA's and others not necessarily so.

[marlinman93]

Yes, it depends on the year the movie is depicting, and the age of the guns used. Obviously if it's 1880's and you have Navy or Army Colts they'd be 20 years old or more, so wear would be expected. But if the era is 1880's and you want 1880's guns, they better be brand new!

[Bigslug]

What's the context in the script that calls for a .22? Maybe I'm off base a little, but I THINK the small game / pest control role was mostly filled in that period by things like the .32 and .38 Ballard rounds. Maybe down as low as .25, but I believe the .22 Short was not long in the rifle world by '85.

[marlinman93]

What's the context in the script that calls for a .22? Maybe I'm off base a little, but I THINK the small game / pest control role was mostly filled in that period by things like the .32 and .38 Ballard rounds. Maybe down as low as .25, but I believe the .22 Short was not long in the rifle world by '85.

Neither was the .22LR. It was almost all .22 Long back then.
In reality I bet a huge number of small game hunters still used an old small caliber percussion ML too.

[36g]

The script wouldn't necessarily call for a .22 but rather a scene calling for a youngster out hunting for small game. I figured that a .22 would be the cheapest cartridge round available at the time. The camera would not detect if a short, long, or LR, or if the rifle was actually a small caliber centerfire like a 32 WCF or 25-20 or something similar. Kind of leaning toward a rolling block at this point due to availability and price point.

[M-Tecs]

The script wouldn't necessarily call for a .22 but rather a scene calling for a youngster out hunting for small game. I figured that a .22 would be the cheapest cartridge round available at the time. The camera would not detect if a short, long, or LR, or if the rifle was actually a small caliber centerfire like a 32 WCF or 25-20 or something similar. Kind of leaning toward a rolling block at this point due to availability and price point.

The cheapest would have been a muzzleloading rifle or shotgun. Any cartridge (at the time) would have been relatively expensive in comparison. Kids guns are mostly a later concept. Old Yeller got that part correct; however, the Travis Coates used a Trapdoor Springfield for an 1860 setting so not so much. Surplus civil war rifles or any muzzleloader would have been mostly like a young person's first firearm but they would have first learned on the family firearm if they had one.

[36g]

The cheapest would have been a muzzleloading rifle or shotgun. Any cartridge (at the time) would have been relatively expensive in comparison. Kids guns are mostly a later concept. Old Yeller got that part correct; however, the Travis Coates used a Trapdoor Springfield for an 1860 setting so not so much. Surplus civil war rifles or any muzzleloader would have been mostly like a young person's first firearm but they would have first learned on the family firearm if they had one.

For that particular movie we ended up using a double barreled, exposed hammer shotgun that was supposed to be a family gun. No attempt was made to even hint at any "youth gun" concept. Brass dummy shells were featured.

[M-Tecs]

For that particular movie we ended up using a double barreled, exposed hammer shotgun that was supposed to be a family gun. No attempt was made to even hint at any "youth gun" concept. Brass dummy shells were featured.

Which movie are your referring too?

[36g]

Which movie are your referring too?

To be released in the U.S. on December 10. Titled "The Last Son".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KilcySbvmP8&t=2s

[Bigslug]

Poking through descriptions in my Blue Book. Looks like the No.2 Rolling Block is probably your baby. Production dates between 1873 & 1909. "Available in many rimfire calibers between .22 and .38, as well as several centerfire calibers between .22 and .38-40 WCF"

The Uberti Baby appears to be a pretty fair replica, & one in .357 would look technically correct if considering the old .38 RF rounds, be easy for blanks. . .and you get to play with it afterwards.:mrgreen:

[36g]

Poking through descriptions in my Blue Book. Looks like the No.2 Rolling Block is probably your baby. Production dates between 1873 & 1909. "Available in many rimfire calibers between .22 and .38, as well as several centerfire calibers between .22 and .38-40 WCF"

The Uberti Baby appears to be a pretty fair replica, & one in .357 would look technically correct if considering the old .38 RF rounds, be easy for blanks. . .and you get to play with it afterwards.:mrgreen:

I've got a rolling block action on order. Thinking of maybe building a 32-20. The Uberti would be fine too, just watching my pennies on this one plus availability of anything specific at this point is problematic. I do plan to play with whatever comes up unless it's strictly a non-shooter to be used as a non-functional prop gun.

[36g]

I was able to pick up a couple of Stevens Favorites 1894. A little late for 1880 but might work in a pinch. The Rolling Block action is a Belgian manufactured variation of a takedown in a 32 rimfire. I'll probably rework it a bit to .32-20 centerfire. Thinking of an octagonal barrel. Haven't decided on sights yet. Will work on that after I get a few missing pieces either located or made.