Centering Vise

[deltaenterprizes]

I got a centering vise today and it is a brute 80 pounds of cast iron and tight as a drum. How do you mold makers mount your blockd to cut the cavities?

[madcaster]

This thread needs PICTURES!!!
And a link for a seller of such goodies!:-D

[deltaenterprizes]

Do a search for "centering vise" on Cuil or kijiji Pittsburg or TNT machinery,too damn cold to go and take pics.

[Bret4207]

The Lyman books, the later ones anyway, have pics of their mounting system.

[BABore]

Here's some pics of mine. The vise jaws are closed with the mold blocks pushed to the rear. A set screw on each jaw is tightened down to hold the block halves against the back surface. You'll note that the set screws are bearing against copper blocks, which then apply pressure to the aluminum mold halves. I also found that the copper blocks need a relief cut where they contact the mold, at the alignment pin area. An unrelieved block would apply enough pressure to the alignment pin bushing so that it would slowly pull the pin out of the one block half.

You'll need to check whatever jaw arrangment you make for squareness and more importantly, flex under load. Use a good indicator for this.

[deltaenterprizes]

Thanks for the infom My vise is a similar design but with removable jaws. I will have to make some jaws with that type of capabilitiy.
Did you build that vise?

[BABore]

Thanks for the infom My vise is a similar design but with removable jaws. I will have to make some jaws with that type of capabilitiy.
Did you build that vise?

Yep! Yes! Yah! See! Da! (had to get my 5 words in to post):-D

[44man]

Darn it all Babore, I like yours better then mine! [smilie=1:

[BABore]

Darn it all Babore, I like yours better then mine! [smilie=1:


Send me a couple of them SS checks and it yours.:mrgreen:

[madcaster]

Thanks Guys!

[dragonrider]

I have been considering the vise from Grizzly, anyone have, use it and can give a comment or two about it.????????

[44man]

Send me a couple of them SS checks and it yours.:mrgreen:
I would probably have to give you my car too! :mrgreen:

[leftiye]

Re: the vise from grizzly - I've had one on oder for two months now. They say I'll get one when they get theirs.

[dragonrider]

Well I quess I won't order one anytime soon then. Was more of a curiosity anyway. Thanks.

[Buckshot]

...............You can get a double acting vise from Kurt :-) Hold on to your wallet! But then again, you're buying industrial strength repeatable accuracy.

..................Buckshot

[44man]

The Grizzly looks like it would be the easiest to work with. I would make new jaws to fit so blocks could be clamped in. I would also make a shelf in the bottom so the blocks will not move up or down.

[deltaenterprizes]

I tried ordering the one Grizzly sells and had the same problem, so I did a search and this one came up from TNT Machinery in Pittsburg. The price was a little more but the design is superior, close to BABore's, it is massive about 70 lbs. The brand name is Edison.

[PatMarlin]

Nice vises ....!

I just got this vise and mill. The vise is an old Jet. It looks very nice, definitely not your ify Chicom crap shoot looking iron. Also has a swivel base.

The Mill is a Webb- vertical knee step pulley ala Bridgeport J-series one, meehanite casting, power feed, and I'm converting it to 110v single phase DC servo controlled drive. My buddy gave me 3- DC permanent magnet motors all 3hp. Ordered the Anilam Wizard DRO for it.

For mold blocks do you make jaws like your vise pictured to fit a vise such as mine? Maybe earth magnet inserts would be good.

Where can I find threads or info on basic mold making? I haven't had much luck so far.

[deltaenterprizes]

That is not a centering vise.

[PatMarlin]

Couldn't a guy center it with the table?

[BABore]

Your vise has one fixed jaw, and one moveable. A cherrying vise has each jaw moving on a LH/RH precision screw. The cherry is spinning at an indicated center point. Each vise jaw, with mold block halves clamped to them, are indexed toward center. An indexable boring head won't work either as the quill must be stopped and the tool retracted to adjusted the diameter.

[PatMarlin]

I see... I think :mrgreen:

So the vise is adjusted while cutting, and the cherry is stationary?

[Red River Rick]

Pat:

The mould blocks are held fast in special jaws to fit the self-centering vise. The vice has to bee dialed in so that when both jaws are closed, the "Y" axis can be set to zero. When you open and close the vice, the mould blocks are then moved closer togeather or farther apart, allowing the cherri cutter to do its work.

Once the vice is dialed in, you do not move the table of the machine, just open and close the vice, after the correct depth has been set.

RRR

[PatMarlin]

Perfect.

I completely understand now. Thanks.. :drinks:

Do you make your own molds Rick?

[PatMarlin]

Love your mold handles bytheway. They work very well. Spoiled now, or most likely ruint... :mrgreen:

Necomers need to check them out!!

[Red River Rick]

Do you make your own molds Rick?

Pat:

Yes, I do make my own moulds. Actually, I make the complete set of blocks, sprue plate and adjustable base all from scratch. Mind you, when I'm making mould block for stock, I'll make 50 -100 pair at one time. This usually keeps me going for a while.

Glad to here that you like the handles, but I doubt that they've spoiled you.

RRR

[PatMarlin]

If you guys care to indulge me a minute here so I may learn something...

Why couldn't you use a fixed one way vise (like mine) by first making a set of mold jaws to securely hold the mold block halves as shown previously.

Then zero the "Y" axis to the completed cut for one half of the mold on the fixed jaw- clamping secure the vise, then by cranking the jaw shut, it completes the other half side of the mold cut.

Set rock solid stops on the knee ways (if they make such a stop), so the table stops at Y-axis dead zero.

The process would be to secure the mold blocks on each set of jaws (open) crank table back minus zero. The cherry would set running at zero. Crank the "minus Y" table into the cherry, and at the same time crank the vise shut so hopefully they would both feed the blocks into the cherry and stop where you want it?

Would that work?

[PatMarlin]

I guess it would be difficult to apply equal pressure, and could cause an out of round cavity, but probably be as good as a LEE ..LOL!

[dragonrider]

Pat cutters move when applied to a mold block, by using a self centering vise you cancel out the movement because you are cutting into two blocks at the same time.

[BABore]

If you guys care to indulge me a minute here so I may learn something...

Why couldn't you use a fixed one way vise (like mine) by first making a set of mold jaws to securely hold the mold block halves as shown previously.

Then zero the "Y" axis to the completed cut for one half of the mold on the fixed jaw- clamping secure the vise, then by cranking the jaw shut, it completes the other half side of the mold cut.

Set rock solid stops on the knee ways (if they make such a stop), so the table stops at Y-axis dead zero.

The process would be to secure the mold blocks on each set of jaws (open) crank table back minus zero. The cherry would set running at zero. Crank the "minus Y" table into the cherry, and at the same time crank the vise shut so hopefully they would both feed the blocks into the cherry and stop where you want it?

Would that work?

Technically, you could with a very good setup, cutting slow, and having a very accurate mill. I initially proof a cherry by side cutting into a block of aluminum to check for proper relief and such. You could theoretically side cut into each mold half to say 0.003 to 0.004" shy of exact center. Then put the block halves together, with the cherry in them, clamp it lightly in your vise, and then hand turn the final size. Block halves would have to have a final deburring or two and maybe hand cut it again with the vise firmly closed. With perfectly machined, matched block sets, it should work ok. It would definetly be mo betta then a Lee.

Even with a proper cherrying vise, I find that I still have to hand turn each cavity after the block set is removed and a final deburring is done. The cavities are pretty good without doing this, but I've found that after hand turning each cavity I can be less than 0.0005 out of round.

[PatMarlin]

Thanks BAB,

The feedback is really a great help.

I will have to give that a try like you suggest by finishing to final size with hand turning. Be interesting to see if my vise and mill will be good enough when I get it set up.

My splindle has some play in it clockwise, and counter clockwise, but no side to side or forward to back play. Could this be a problem?

I was thinking the play is in the 3phase AC motor slop that I'm replacing with a solid PMD DC motor.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Before I had access to a CNC mill, I made my molds by cutting one half of the profile at a time - and this was in iron molds. I deliberately made the cuts a little too deep, and trimmed the face of the blocks afterwards on a plane grinder.

This method works best with short, stubby boolits - no more than 2 x diameter, but you may go longer in alu molds with a rigid cutter design. The cutter will deflect slightly sideways (but hardly any in the cutting direction) and the error will accumulate when the halves are put together - that's why you should drill the pin holes after the cavities when using this method.

[PatMarlin]

Mogan, did you mill your vent lines after refacing as well?

[Cap'n Morgan]

Mogan, did you mill your vent lines after refacing as well?

Yes, I tried several types of venting lines, milling or grinding. I'm a firm believer in plenty of venting, and broad (1 to 2mm) lines works great and are easy to keep clean. Nowadays I use the quick'n'dirty method of using a fly cutter.

BTW: An easy way of fixing a poorly vented mold is to use a gunsmith checkering file. If you use some sort of guide rail you can quickly put some nice, even lines on the mold faces. Haven't tried it with a Lee mold, though.