Lead water pipes

[labop]

I'm wondering how if any, the infrastructure legislation will impact the supply of lead to bullet casters? Most scrap dealers in this area will not sell to individuals. Guessing most of the lead pipe replaced will find its way to the recyclers in bulk and not available for sale to individuals. A few years ago my most successful source was a ditch digger working for the local water company. Not that I'm going to Flint or Benton Harbor MI and stand in the street waiting.

labop

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I've been meaning to get out and do some leg work to see if I can identify the contractors who are replacing the lead water services in my city. Better to get ahold of it before it hits the scrap yard. The ground will soon be frozen though and that kind of work will stop until May.

[RogerDat]

If the crew decides they want you to have it that is a pretty sure bet. Into and out of a scrap yard is going to depend on where it ends up. More yards than not won't sell to the public. Especially corporate owned yards. You being in the yard other than at the scale and cash out window is a liability issue in their mind.

I guess my backside in the air as I'm head down in a lead bin, or using 5 gallon bucket as a step stool to climb inside where the "good stuff" is would make their front office give birth to kittens and cats if they saw it.


Still high supply in the scrap yards could help keep down prices. If it sells for less wholesale it might mean lower prices for us at yards. Or at least not higher prices. Although some yards seem to have static prices they charge the public. Irrespective of market price. Others seem to tweak prices higher if the price they get wholesale goes up.

[Rich/WIS]

Years ago a contractor I was working with was replacing water lines and had a 4 foot piece of water pipe in the pile of dirt where he was digging. asked for it and he said take it. Explained what i used it for and he told me to go to his shop, there was more next to the office and take it all as the local scrap yard did not take lead. Went to his shop and found what he described as a small pile and loaded it into my company van. Noticed the van handled "funny" on the way home. When I backed into my machine building and got out realized my guardian angel was looking out for me, the back tire were about half normal height and ballooned out to twice normal size. Smelted out had 580#.

Watch for sewer projects, one I was on replaced the old 10" cast with plastic and stacked the pipes for removal to the scrap yard. Each had a lead ring and was told take as many as I wanted as the scrap yard wanted the pipe clean, no contamination. Don't recall how much i got but it was a lot at an average of almost 9# each.

[imashooter2]

I suppose my expectations for our benevolent masters are pretty low. I wouldn’t be surprised if the contractor would have to account for and "properly dispose of" “that toxic environmental hazard.” I further suspect "I gave it to imashooter2" wouldn’t satisfy the contract.

[dondiego]

One of my best scores was 200 feet of 1 inch water main that a friend who worked for the city asked me if I was interested in because one time 10 years ago he had remembered that I was looking for lead............I said I'd take it. No charge. He delivered it out to my barn. I used a chisel to cut it into 4 foot sections. Still have a couple cause you never know when you might need a 1 inch lead washer...........

[kevin c]

If a small time, non corporate demolition contractor were offered a way of reducing the amount of “hazardous waste” needing costly disposal, it might be considered.

I get my isotope containers straight from the radiopharmacy. I pick them up, and pay more than the scrap yard (which is much less than what the yard would charge me). The manager doesn’t have to sent somebody to the scrapper, and gets to wave a check at his bosses for more than the yard would give him. His staff get snacks, and I get a regular supply of clean antimonial and pure lead for a great price and without the need to scrounge. My connection was made at the source, not at the scrapper. Seems to me that the hitting the demo people at the site or at their base of operations, not at the gate to the scrap yard, could pay off the same way.

[GregLaROCHE]

Anyone know when they stopped using lead for pipes in the US?

[Sasquatch-1]

Anyone know when they stopped using lead for pipes in the US?

Here is a quote from the EPA website:

Overview of Lead Free Requirements of Safe Drinking Water Act
Section 1417 of the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) establishes the definition for “lead free” as a weighted average of 0.25% lead calculated across the wetted surfaces of a pipe, pipe fitting, plumbing fitting, and fixture and 0.2% lead for solder and flux. The Act also provides a methodology for calculating the weighted average of wetted surfaces.

The Act prohibits the “use of any pipe, any pipe or plumbing fitting or fixture, any solder, or any flux, after June 1986, in the installation or repair of (i) any public water system; or (ii) any plumbing in a residential or non-residential facility providing water for human consumption, that is not lead free.”

Additionally there is a prohibition on introducing a pipe, any pipe or plumbing fitting or fixture, any solder, or any flux that is not lead free into commerce; unless the use is for manufacturing or industrial purposes.

The SDWA includes several exemptions from the lead free requirements, specifically for plumbing devices that are used exclusively for nonpotable services, as well as a list of specific products: toilets, bidets, urinals, fill valves, flushometer valves, fire hydrants, tub fillers, shower valves, service saddles, or water distribution main gate valves that are 2 inches in diameter or larger.

Legislative History
In 1986 Congress Amended the Safe Drinking Water Act, prohibiting the use of pipes, solder or flux that were not “lead free” in public water systems or plumbing in facilities providing water for human consumption. At the time "lead free” was defined as solder and flux with no more than 0.2% lead and pipes with no more than 8%.

In 1996 Congress further amended the Safe Drinking Water Act, requiring plumbing fittings and fixtures (endpoint devices) to be in compliance with voluntary lead leaching standards. The amendments also prohibited the introduction into commerce of any pipe, pipe or plumbing fitting or fixture that is not lead free.

In 2011 Congress passed the Reduction of Lead in Drinking Water Act (RLDWA) revising the definition of lead free by lowering the maximum lead content of the wetted surfaces of plumbing products (such as pipes, pipe fittings, plumbing fittings and fixtures) from 8% to a weighted average of 0.25%, establishing a statutory method for the calculation of lead content and eliminating the requirement that lead free products be in compliance with voluntary standards established in accordance with SDWA 1417(e) for leaching of lead from new plumbing fittings and fixtures.

The 2011 RLDWA also created exemptions in SDWA Section 1417 from the prohibitions on the use or introduction into commerce of “pipes, pipe fittings, plumbing fittings or fixtures, including backflow preventers, that are used exclusively for non-potable services such as manufacturing, industrial processing, irrigation, outdoor watering, or any other uses where the water is not anticipated to be used for human consumption” (SDWA 1417(a)(4)(A)). Also exempt are “toilets, bidets, urinals, fill valves, flushometer valves, tub fillers, shower valves, service saddles, or water distribution main gate valves that are 2 inches in diameter or larger” (SDWA 1417(a)(4)(B)).

The Community Fire Safety Act of 2013 further amended the SDWA Section 1417 to include fire hydrants in the list of exempted plumbing devices.

[Hammerlane]

Here in my Small Mill Town there are plenty of lead pipes getting replaced. Just because they are getting placed does not mean they are getting removed. Spoke with a couple of the Contractors over the years and all have said they are leaving the pipes in the ground and just running new lines. So I met with the Water Service Dept Super and he said they would leave the pipes in the ground because of the Environmental issues created by removing them. They with have to dig up the dirt around the pipe to remove the lead. Kind of like asbestos siding on house. So long as you don't try and remove it, just cover it up your are OK

[oley55]

They with have to dig up the dirt around the pipe to remove the lead.

A perfect case of government regulations for regulation's sake.

[JimB..]

A perfect case of government regulations for regulation's sake.

In a weird way it makes sense for the short term, and everything is about the short term. They want new pipe in, and adding the cost of removal/remediation would reduce the amount of new pipe they could install. Just pulling the old pipe without remediating would make it impossible to later identify the area that needs to be remediated. So there it will sit, pretty much forever.

[centershot]

It's just my opinion, but I believe the time will soon come when personal possession of lead will be banned. Get as much as you can, as soon as you can, boys! Beg, scrimp and save or spend your kids college fund, but lay it in deep while you can.

[labop]

That's disappointing to hear that they're going to leave the lead pipe in the ground. They are replacing some water pipes on the westside of Michigan in a city on the lake, my daughter asked them if they had any lead and they told her no.