Minimum FPS for deer hunting?

[Bnt55]

How low will you go regarding FPS on your hunting boolit for deer or American big game? I read that if your cast boolit can explode a 1 gallon jug of water then it is good for meat hunting, and the distance it only splits the jug is the maximum distance for a killing shot. I am working on finding my 45 colt 1894 Marlin a boolit mold so I can hurl some lead next year.

[Shawlerbrook]

Not sure that a minimum fps is the best measurement but I have read many places that energy is a better indicator and that is usually 1000ft.lbs.

[Messy bear]

First thing for if your working with 45 about any reasonable weight and velocity will kill.
Accuracy and trajectory become the more important issues I believe.
I have killed deer with trailboss loads at 750pfs but trajectories are so bad that ranges must be close. Speed the same bullet up and now 75-100 yd is doable.

[Nobade]

Black powder 45 colt loads out of a revolver will shoot through a horse (the original requirement by the government). Deer don't present much of a challenge. Just put it in the right place.

[NSB]

Shooting deer and killing them has almost nothing to do with FPS or muzzle energy. It has EVERYTHING to do with placing the bullet in the vitals. I’ve probably shot somewhere around two hundred deer and they’ve been shot with bows, handguns, shotguns and rifles. Nothing mattered except placing the bullet in the kill area. I’ve killed over fifty with the .357mag using a revolver and never lost a single deer I shot with that cartridge. I once shot a deer with the 44mag and didn’t get it. I made a bad shot and didn’t hit the vitals (sometimes it happens to anyone). Getting shot with a 458 Win Mag in the foot probably won’t kill anything, but getting shot in the heart with a .22lr will kill about anything. Put the bullet where it needs to go and shoot a gun you’re confident you can do that with.

[ABJ]

Shooting deer and killing them has almost nothing to do with FPS or muzzle energy. It has EVERYTHING to do with placing the bullet in the vitals. I’ve probably shot somewhere around two hundred deer and they’ve been shot with bows, handguns, shotguns and rifles. Nothing mattered except placing the bullet in the kill area. I’ve killed over fifty with the .357mag using a revolver and never lost a single deer I shot with that cartridge. I once shot a deer with the 44mag and didn’t get it. I made a bad shot and didn’t hit the vitals (sometimes it happens to anyone). Getting shot with a 458 Win Mag in the foot probably won’t kill anything, but getting shot in the heart with a .22lr will kill about anything. Put the bullet where it needs to go and shoot a gun you’re confident you can do that with.

Could not have said it any better than this.
Tony

[Bnt55]

Shooting deer and killing them has almost nothing to do with FPS or muzzle energy. It has EVERYTHING to do with placing the bullet in the vitals. I’ve probably shot somewhere around two hundred deer and they’ve been shot with bows, handguns, shotguns and rifles. Nothing mattered except placing the bullet in the kill area. I’ve killed over fifty with the .357mag using a revolver and never lost a single deer I shot with that cartridge. I once shot a deer with the 44mag and didn’t get it. I made a bad shot and didn’t hit the vitals (sometimes it happens to anyone). Getting shot with a 458 Win Mag in the foot probably won’t kill anything, but getting shot in the heart with a .22lr will kill about anything. Put the bullet where it needs to go and shoot a gun you’re confident you can do that with.

I get that, and couldn't agree more being that I am more of a bowhunter than a gun hunter. That being said, I am very interested in harvesting a deer using my own "creation" so to speak and my 16 yo son is getting interested in the hobby as well. Anytime you can get a teenager interested in the same stuff, well, that is pretty cool. Thanks for the replies, good to know I don't have to work up a special hard boolit just to drop a doe....now if I could just find the right size my marlin likes to eat....:smile:

[HD.375]

i think some bows run at about 250 fps? iirc,

[GhostHawk]

I have killed deer at 50 yards with a .22lr DRT, but the bullet got put where it needed to go.

I would not be afraid of shooting a deer with a .45acp doing 800+ fps as long as the range was right and I was sure I could hit my spot.

The caliber I have shot the most deer with by far is a 20 Ga Rem 870 wingmaster smoothbore with federal slugs.
Inside of 25 yards I was whistling death. So I very very seldom took longer shots than that. As long as they were coming my way I let them come. At that range most were DRT. The one that ran the farthest was less than a foot from the end of my barrel as he jumped over the fireweed I was crouched down behind. If the people I was hunting with had not been so impatient I could have walked right up to him and finished him. But they refused giving him the time to lay down and stiffen up and bleed out.
Patience is a virtue. Knowing what you and your loads and your weapon can do at a given range is another.

[rking22]

I can’t say it any better than above, but you asked for a velocity number. How bout put a 250ish gr fp or hp thru the heart or both lungs at 750fps or better and you will have skinning to do.

[MT Gianni]

Be careful with formulas. Remember that in IPSC the velocity mass calculates that a slow pitched soft ball is more lethal than a 9mm.
Respect your quarry. Understand that velocity is the advantage to minimize sight correction but it aids in allowing a bullet to penetrate and expand. Approach killing an animal from the point of "is this the best my gun has to offer?" rather than absolute minimums.

[Rcmaveric]

Its not about velocity. Its about energy in the ft pound of energy at impact at the distance you expect to shoot a deer.

While i agree its more about shot placement, however states have laws. I live in Florida and our state minimum for firearms is 800lbs of force and bows are 35lb draw min.

There are calculators on line. You input projectile velocity and weight and it gives you the energy.

Just chrono what you plan to use. Do the math and see if its legal. My 30-30 uses 180g bullets and I rather enjoy shooting it at 1650 fps. I am good out to 100 yards with that load and it still be legal.

Here is a quick calculator (this would only show you the energy at the muzzel):
http://www.ballistics101.com/muzzle_energy_calc.php

You would need a ballistics calculator to estimate bullet velocity at different ranges.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[wolfdog]

I think my 357 load this year was 800 ft/lbs at the muzzle, 600 at 100 yards. I'm not in the energy camp. I think that the larger the cal, the heavier the bullet, the less speed you need. People are killing deer with 30 and 45 cal air guns. And results don't seem marginal at all.

[444ttd]

i use a ruger sbh in 44mag(4 5/8" barrel). i use 250gr penta hp and 255gr keith-type boolits and unique in a 44 special brass. it sure kills deer. i don't have any pictures of spent boolits, the durn things go thru a deer!!!

[dverna]

Good comments. No "award" for using low velocity loads so why go there? Excellent advice to check your state regulations.

Deer are not difficult to kill so any decent load in the .45 LC will get the job done.

[Castaway]

NoBade, if you have a reference the 45 Colt loads were a requirement to shoot a horse, either the trooper’s mount or opponents mount, please post it. The Army tested the Colt pistol against three variants of S&W model 3.. The Colt fired 300 rounds with one misfire (bad primer) without a problem, cooled between 100 rounds, laid in the snow, water poured over it three days and nights and still fired, although rusted “considerably”, then fired for accuracy against the Smith where the Colt proved to be more accurate, placed in a sand box which didn’t bother the working of either, then tested for penetration which the Colt won, 4.4” to 3.35”. Other criteria were established and the Colt outperformed the Smith. Not one horse was shot

[quilbilly]

Having been hunting blacktail deer with a 45 Cal muzzleloader for over 30 years, I can say with certainty that a .445 patched round ball (132 gr appoximately) going 1100 fps, the velocity at about 75 yards, is devastating on deer. The same is true with a .490- 50 Cal patched round ball (172 gr approximately)going approximately 950 fps at 100 yards. If your chosen mold drops a boolit of 220 gr.+ and the terminal velocity is over 800 fps, it will do just dandy for deer if you do your part. You don't need to drive yourself crazy with high pressures, high velocity, and high recoil to get the job done if you are a competent hunter with enough discipline to pass up questionable shots. I would recommend against a round nose boolit, however, and just consider at least a round nose with a flat point or semi-wadcutter if it will feed in your rifle.

[Orchard6]

I’ve taken 3 deer and my daughter just got her first deer today with a 200 grain cast boolit out of a 300 blackout at a little under 1100 fps, all shots taken at less than 50 yards. Hers ran the farthest out the four hit with this bullet and it ran 40 yards and piled up. The damage isn’t tremendous but it seems adequate. As others have said it’s where you put the boolit, not necessarily how fast the boolits going.

[megasupermagnum]

Since you already know what you want to use, a 45 colt rifle, then it comes down to two things. Do you want to use a hollow point, or a solid bullet. If a solid, it doesn't really matter how fast you send it. If a hollow point, I'd like to see at least 1100 fps, to ensure good expansion.

[Shawlerbrook]

A bow kills strictly by causing hemorrhaging and lethal blood loss( at least if you do things correctly and don’t get a lucky head or spine shot). With any of these questions you can answer it on what will kill a deer and what should you use to kill a deer. Yes, shot placement makes all the difference, but in the field Murphy’s Law tends to intervene at times. You can kill by throwing a stone, but that wouldn’t be a reasonable plan.
A 45 is a good size slug that will make a good size hole, even without expansion. So I would look for accuracy and penetration.

[Bnt55]

The hardest lead I have at the moment is water quenched WW, I think it is around a 10-11 BHN. So if I am correct, I will be around the 800fps range using whatever boolit I can come up with that shoots accurately. From what I am gathering, finding the correct boolit type will be a challenge with the newer marlin 1894s

[versa-06]

Boolit diameter is going to be your best friend for accuracy, most marlins have a micro-groove barrel & you will need a boolit just a little larger than your bore. Example, if your bore slugs at .451, a .453 boolit will probably be your friend. There are a lot of molds out there & a 250gr. & up boolit will do the job quite well. The right powder charge for accuracy &, or range will make your 45 complete.

[Bnt55]

I slugged my barrel at .4525" so I should be looking for a .454 CB? I don't believe this barrel is micro grooved, pretty sure it is Ballard rifling. The grooves are relatively large.

[megasupermagnum]

I slugged my barrel at .4525" so I should be looking for a .454 CB? I don't believe this barrel is micro grooved, pretty sure it is Ballard rifling. The grooves are relatively large.

If you already have the .452" sizer, it's worth trying. I would think .454" would be a good choice in your case. Some say it's best to go by throat diameter. I do for revolvers, as it is super easy to check them. In a rifle, I just try both sizes and see. Normally I see no difference. In a precision bolt gun, maybe. In a 45 colt lever gun, I'd just size to .453" or .454" and run it. Again, if you already have a .452" sizer, you very well might find it shoots really well with that.

[Bnt55]

If you already have the .452" sizer, it's worth trying. I would think .454" would be a good choice in your case. Some say it's best to go by throat diameter. I do for revolvers, as it is super easy to check them. In a rifle, I just try both sizes and see. Normally I see no difference. In a precision bolt gun, maybe. In a 45 colt lever gun, I'd just size to .453" or .454" and run it. Again, if you already have a .452" sizer, you very well might find it shoots really well with that.

I dont have boolits for this gun yet. I will be ordering some today if I can find any in stock

[Hickok]

I can give you some first hand results.

Ruger New Model Vaquero 4 3/4" barrel, 876 fps @ the muzzle. 50 yards and under, complete pass-throughs, double lung shots.

When I owned a Marlin Cowboy 45 Colt rifle, 250 gr RNFP @ aprox. 1300 fps., shot deer out to about 75 yards and complete pass-throughs. Just never got a shot at any further distance in the woods with this rifle/caliber.

To be totally factual,... for shooting deer with revolver or lever action, .44 magnum or .45 Colt, 250 gr cast boolits @ about 900 to 1600 fps (.44 Carbine), I can't tell much, if any difference.

Behind the front leg, thumb-sized hole in, thumb sized hole out, brief run from 30 to 50 yards and down. High shoulder shot will most times flatten deer on the spot.

Others may have different experience, but I am only relating my findings.

[R-71]

I haven’t been able to shoot a deer with my revolvers yet but I try to get my 44 special, 45 colt and 480 ruger in the 900- 1000 FPS ballpark. I shoot the RCBS versions of Keith bullets in the special and colt and a 350 grain 477640 bullet that I got from a group buy here. I won’t shoot past 50 yards or so.

[RickinTN]

The hardest lead I have at the moment is water quenched WW, I think it is around a 10-11 BHN. So if I am correct, I will be around the 800fps range using whatever boolit I can come up with that shoots accurately. From what I am gathering, finding the correct boolit type will be a challenge with the newer marlin 1894s

I don't think I would be looking for the hardest lead I could find. Half and Half wheel weights and pure air cooled work pretty well. Add a little tin if you like for malleablity.
Rick

[Harter66]

Maine actually calls out 25 ACP as a minimum cartridge for deer ......

The TKO does weird things and I don't get it but numbers don't make themselves up so it is what you get out of it .

I lived most of my life with a 1000ftlb at 100 yd rule , so that's my goal in a rifle .
Pistols had/have a bizarre description that in it's black and white form makes a 256 Win Mag and 30 carb legal for Elk but not a 327 Fed . It also makes a cowboy load in a 45 Colts legal but not a 44 Special ........

Tissue disruption and the correct tissue is the answer to the question .

At a 1050 fps a 135-180# hog will take a 250 gr 45 Colts through about 3' of it from 3-50 yd . Load it up to Start Ruger levels 18-20 kpsi and you can run a 350 gr bullet over 1200 fps MV . In a 16" Rossi 92 the Lee 458-340 sized fine and shot well with 900 fps loads , unfortunately these were only applied to steel plates and paper .

Here's the fly in the oinkment .
That same rifle is equiped with a 1-32" twist barrel .
The 250 &257 gr NOE version and round groove Lyman 454424 at a 1240 fps MV go subsonic between 78&82 yards and begin to tumble owed to the lack of sufficient gyroscopic stability . At 75 yd I'm whacking golf balls and have holes through the soft scapula , 1.5" of shield , 2" of hide , hair , and fat making up a 24" pass through on a 135# boar , 2 ribs also . At 90 yd a 5 gallon bucket has only a 40% chance of being hit and at 110 yd the bullets were hitting about a 55 gallon drum 9' high 15+ left 20 consecutive shots with witnesses .

So a short 300-325 gr 45 cal bullet will stabilize in the slow twist .
You have to decide whether you want to get it to the point of impact still supersonic or keep it subsonic all the way .

[Jeff Michel]

A good bullet is the 250 gr. WFN from NOE, in my Marlin I size to .454. The Lee 255 grain FP isn't anyone's poor relation either. Don't over analyze this fps stuff. I've killed a pile of deer with nothing more than the Lee 255 and 8.5 grains of Unique. At 100 yards, they won't stand a chance if you hold up your end. Good luck.

[Bnt55]

Thank you gentlemen for the load of information...I should have joined this forum a long time ago, I think I would have been that much wiser and a whole lot poorer. :D I am on the prowl for a .454 mold at the very least I can try the larger size and use a sizing die to go smaller if needed. I wish Lee made a .454 mold, since they are economical but the largest I found was .452 for the 45 Colt

[Geezer in NH]

Anyone that says 1000 foot pounds just stopped ALL Archery hunting IMHO.

[ABJ]

Thank you gentlemen for the load of information...I should have joined this forum a long time ago, I think I would have been that much wiser and a whole lot poorer. :D I am on the prowl for a .454 mold at the very least I can try the larger size and use a sizing die to go smaller if needed. I wish Lee made a .454 mold, since they are economical but the largest I found was .452 for the 45 Colt

Do yourself a favor and go to Accuratemolds.com. Tom the owner can guide you on your quest for about the same money as a lyman and you will know what size it will cast from the beginning. I have over a dozen of his and they are a joy to cast with. Send him an email and tell him what alloy, what gun and he will reply back usually the next day.
Tony

[versa-06]

Tom @ Accurate Molds Is an excellent craftsman, He's done a few for me & they are all precision molds. He doesn't talk on the phone because he doesn't hear well, but he sure knows what he's doing. A real pro.

[Bnt55]

^^ Awesome, thanks for the link. I have a few designs coming to me in the mail to see what this gun like to shoot. This should be a fun/interesting process, I'm not sure what I'm going to do once I have this marlin sighted in

[megasupermagnum]

^^ Awesome, thanks for the link. I have a few designs coming to me in the mail to see what this gun like to shoot. This should be a fun/interesting process, I'm not sure what I'm going to do once I have this marlin sighted in

In that case, let me recommend a mold. I'm not much of a 45 shooter. I do have this mold, and like it a whole lot. NOE molds drop plenty big, mine drops .455". It's going to be tough to find a more versatile mold for a bunch of cartridges. With the large hollow point, it works really well in 45 ACP, although I wouldn't use the large HP for deer. It flattens out into a coin. As a solid, it will work good in almost anything, and would be a great choice for deer. If it was me with a 45 colt rifle for deer, I'd cast of 20:1 allow with the cup point. Get the Lee bushing sizer kit, or the NOE bushing kit if you prefer. Either works. Lee sells a .454" standard, has a .453" in stock, and can make you a bushing in any size you want custom order.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/452-454/452-232-hp-ab1/452-232-hp-ab1-rg2-cavity-pb/

[HD.375]

sooooo- I just purchased my first Compound Bow............. :D :D

game changer

[Lloyd Smale]

ive killed a pile of deer bear and pigs with 44s and 45s using a 250 at 900 and found little differnce in speeding it up. Id say a good minimum with a hard cast bullet with a decent metplat (lfn, wfn swc) would be 800 fps.

[starnbar]

I would go with what Hickok recommends I have seen him shoot.

[versa-06]

I think a great 45 cal mold for the money is the LEE 452-255-RF, best I remember they are less than $29.00 @ Midway USA. I use them in my 454 casull rifle with a powder coat & they perform as good as a bullet from a $160.00 mold. It would be a great place to start. Molds are an investment that last for years, most of us have a collection, & are still looking at more.

[Bnt55]

I think a great 45 cal mold for the money is the LEE 452-255-RF, best I remember they are less than $29.00 @ Midway USA. I use them in my 454 casull rifle with a powder coat & they perform as good as a bullet from a $160.00 mold. It would be a great place to start. Molds are an investment that last for years, most of us have a collection, & are still looking at more.

I was going to get that mold, but then I read that most guys are sizing .002 above bore...so that puts me at .454. I guess if I started powder coating then that would give the extra .002 I would need for the barrel? I have never PC a bullet before, just fishing lures.

[downzero]

45 colt would kill a deer at black powder velocity just fine

[savagetactical]

Lots of buffalo were killed with 45 and 50 caliber bullets moving 600 to 800 FPS upon impact.

[versa-06]

Bnt55; Your thinker is engaged for sure, I have one of the newer molds & it drops from the mold slightly over. We never know the diameter until we get the mold. even if it drops right as .452 you should be fine for lower velocity loads. Every firearm is a law unto itself. You might even get to the 1600 fps. area with the slower twist rate most Marlins have along with your Ballard type rifling. It's that fast twist with more resistance which causes the bullet to skid, sheer, or lead the barrel, take your pick of terminologies if there's not that extra snug fit. Never know til you try. besides powder coating boolits is quick, easy, & very inexpensive if you choose to do so. Good Luck, & there will always be support here if you have any ?"s

[derek45]

I've killed big midwestern deer with Winchester Factory Ranger 230gr JHP

It works very well, and the exit hole in the ribcage looked like you could almost push a golf ball through it

Like everyone has already said, shot placement is paramount.

practice practice