Large rifle primers in 475/480?

[Naphtali]

I believe the 475 Linebaugh was originally a 45-70 case trimmed to revolver cylinder length. 45-70 brass uses large rifle primers. Can I use large rifle primers in currently manufactured 475 Linebaugh and 480 Ruger brass?

If the answer is, "Yes, but . . ." please identify the qualifiers.

[frank505]

you are correct, I use CCI 350's in my 475 and do not have any problems. $05 grain Keith, 22 grains of WC 820(lot 47320) and CCi 350. SD of 4, velocity 1175. This an everyday load in my six shot cylinder, will even kill buffalo real dead.
The CCI primers will seat deep in Starline or Hornady bit I have not had a missfire ever in something like 6 thousand rounds, at the moment my recoil plate is in need of replacement. It has receded back in the frame a little and the primers are kinda following, not enough to hang up, but it will occur soon enough. I guess I better get it done before the bears wake up.

[44man]

Use large pistol magnum primers. I use the Federal 155 in the .475 and 45-70 revolvers. (They are more accurate in the 45-70 then rifle primers.) Of interest is the 45-70 revolver comes with a 22# mainspring for LP primers and the Marlin .450 and .500 S&W revolvers come with a 28# spring for the LR primer.
The LR primers will cause too much pressure. Besides that, primer pressure can move the boolit out of the brass before the powder gets good ignition.
I contacted powder and gun companies and they all said NO, NO to LR primers in the .480 and .475.
Just seat LP primers to the bottom of the pocket and don't worry that they are a little deeper.

[Lloyd Smale]

just make sure they will run in the gun. Try every round to see that it doesnt hit the recoil shield and id shout a bunch to make sure your firing pin is hitting hard enough as rifle primers are a little tougher to get to ignite.

[longuner]

So Frank,

Who makes a 6 shot revolver in 475?

Adam

[44man]

Lloyd, you are backwards, LP primers fit lower in the pockets then LR primers. Have you been hitting the ripple? :mrgreen:

[Lloyd Smale]

I think its you hitting the sause pal. hes asking if he can use larger rilfle not lg pistol

[Dan Cash]

I think its you hitting the sause pal. hes asking if he can use larger rifle primers not small

.44 man is right. Large PISTOL primers are not as tall as Large RIFLE primers hence, they will sit deeper in the primer pocket. If the pocket is reamed for PISTOL primers and a RIFLE primer is seated the primer sits high and one invites an unintended discharge from bothe the handgun and one's self.

[Heavy lead]

I currently am using Hornady 475 brass and cci 350 primers sit deep, I have never used or tried a rifle primer, but I do believe they would seat flush, that being said I have never had any problems with the BFR, and in fact is my most accurate revolver.

[Naphtali]

So the [first] critical step is to compare heights of Large Pistol and Large Rifle primers that I would consider using in reloading these cartridges? And measure depth of my Starline brass' primer pockets? If the Large Rifle primers can be seated just below flush with cases' heads, that takes care of step one?

The revolvers in question are Ruger six-shot SRH and FA M83.

[44man]

The primer pockets WILL take LR primers. What we are saying is they are too strong to use. The parent case is the 45-70 and I don't know of any brass made just for a LP primer at this point.
The LP primer will be .010" deeper in the pocket.
A LR primer will be flush but is harder to set off and creates high pressures.
Is that clear now Lloyd? :drinks:

[Lloyd Smale]

i understand totaly that lg rifle primers sit high and and 4570 are cut for lg rifle. He is asking if he can use large rifle in newer 475 cases not in older 4570 formed brass and my statement was that he would have to check to make sure that they didnt hang up on the recoil shield because they possibly would stick out a bit. This could be very dangerous especially in a gun that recoils like a 475. If they are sitting flush or below they will work fine and are not much hotter if any then a mag pistol primer. Now for the sake of argument where was my statement about incorrect ;)

[Naphtali]

Please let me clarify. Lloyd is correct. Brass is Starline 475 Linebaugh and 480 Ruger. I also have about 130 pieces of Hornady 475 Linebaugh. I would prefer not to reload the Hornadys to maintain as much uniformity as I can -- fewer variables, fewer surprises.

I have been informed that Winchester standard Large Rifle primers are nearly as hot as other brands' magnum rifle primers. The primers I have are CCI standard Large Rifle primers.

[44man]

ALL .475 and .480 brass have primer pockets that are large rifle primer depth and they do not stick up. THEY DO NOT STICK HIGH, they are flush.
YES THEY FIT, but it is NOT advised to use them because of pressure issues.
If new brass has a pocket for LP primers only, a warning would be issued against the use of LR primers. I know of NO brass made as such at this time.
YES Lloyd, they are HOTTER with MORE PRESSURE then LP mag primers.
If you want to be safe, do not load with LR primers! Bottom line, proceed at your own risk.
Never ask me to advise any other way.

[Naphtali]

ALL .475 and .480 brass have primer pockets that are large rifle primer depth and they do not stick up. THEY DO NOT STICK HIGH, they are flush.
YES THEY FIT, but it is NOT advised to use them because of pressure issues.
If new brass has a pocket for LP primers only, a warning would be issued against the use of LR primers. I know of NO brass made as such at this time.
YES Lloyd, they are HOTTER with MORE PRESSURE then LP mag primers.
If you want to be safe, do not load with LR primers! Bottom line, proceed at your own risk.
Never ask me to advise any other way.One thing I'm not clear on. When 475 Linebaugh ammunition was created using altered 45-70 cases, were these
475s primed with Large Pistol primers, or with Large Rifle primers?

[44man]

You would have to contact Linebaugh for the answer. He did a lot of testing and most likely tried them.
I was advised not to use them.

[Lloyd Smale]

we did some accuracy and pressure testing a few years ago using cci 350s and ww lr primers in the 500 linebaugh and found velocitys were close enough to call the same. The lr primers usually didnt give the accuacy that the pistol primers gave. Im guess it is because they may have a slightly harder cup and our 500s have all had action work done on them and may not have been hitting them hard enough. Now this was no scientific test and you take your own chances using components that are not in a reloading manual and shouldnt trust my results. But id say if i needed to load some 475s or 500s and didnt have any pistol primers i wouldnt hesitate for a second using large rifle primers in them using data that used mag pistol primers.

[44man]

we did some accuracy and pressure testing a few years ago using cci 350s and ww lr primers in the 500 linebaugh and found velocitys were close enough to call the same. The lr primers usually didnt give the accuacy that the pistol primers gave. Im guess it is because they may have a slightly harder cup and our 500s have all had action work done on them and may not have been hitting them hard enough. Now this was no scientific test and you take your own chances using components that are not in a reloading manual and shouldnt trust my results. But id say if i needed to load some 475s or 500s and didnt have any pistol primers i wouldnt hesitate for a second using large rifle primers in them using data that used mag pistol primers.
I would reduce loads and work back up. But the biggest problem I see is the additional pressure of the primer might pop boolits out of the case too soon and might be the cause of the bad accuracy you found. The boolit will also stop or slow when it hits the forcing cone while the powder burn is coming up.
That along with needing a stronger mainspring.
I have a 26# mainspring and did try LR primers myself. I was feeling a difference in recoil every now and then plus accuracy went away.
That is when I started calling around.
All the loading info I have calls for the CCI 350 too.
I was not afraid to try LR primers in my BFR 45-70 but they also showed poor accuracy so I went to LP mag primers and groups tightened a LOT.
I still will not recommend it but if anyone decides to use them, use care. The cylinder gap might be the only thing to save you from an SEE event. Remember that a slowed or stopped boolit without a constant powder burn push will act like a bore obstruction. A boolit popped out of the case from primer pressure alone also has an increased air space and is the same as reducing the charge of slow powder like H110 and 296.
I am not comfortable telling anyone it is OK. Proceed with caution, it is one of those things you might get away with for a long time.

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont know what the exact velocity readings were as it was a while ago and we didnt write them down but i do remember that velocitys were simualar and there wasnt much of a difference in devation form round to round with either so i doubt we were having any bullets jumping crimp. Now you have to keep in mind that this was in the 500 linebaugh and that that is a big case. Pressure signs and problems crop up much faster in a 475 and its intirely possible you could experince problems quicker in that case.

[44man]

The .500 might just be OK with it.
I do not own a .454 and never loaded for it until a friend wanted some loads worked up. I used heavy, hard cast and very tight case tension with a good crimp. To do the safe thing I started at listed starting loads of 296. I had issues with ignition even as I increased charges with the SR primers. I went to SR mag primers and the problem started to go away as I increased the charges but I still was getting high SD's and ES's all the way to max.
Now the thing that blew me away was how far the primer blew an over size boolit up the barrel. The powder did not light but the boolit was a few inches into the bore. I had to get a rod and beat a bunch of boolits out of the barrel before powder would finally ignite with a heavier charge.
It is kind of revealing how much force a SR primer has. Now what does a LR primer have behind it?
It was also revealing that with all of the force the SR primer has, it did not have enough heat to ignite the powder.
On the opposite side of the coin, I have been shooting standard LP primers for years and years in the .44 and .45 with astounding accuracy and never a problem using 296. I shoot LP mag primers in the .475 and 45-70 revolvers and get groups of less then an inch at 100 yd's and beer can accuracy at 200. I even use LP primers in the 45-70 BP rifle.
Heat without pressure!
Fellas, primers are important! Don't fool around just because they fit the hole. Chamber pressure can skyrocket even though ignition temperature goes down.
I still will not say to substitute primers willy nilly. If you don't have LP primers, go buy some.