45 Colt reloading question

[Bnt55]

I am reloading for my 45 colt lever action Marlin rifle. I have a few questions for those in the know.

1. I am using the Lee 3 die carbide kit, I noticed that it does not have a crimp die, just the bullet seating die. Don't I need a crimp for a lever action gun??
2. I shot some factory ammo I got when I purchased the rifle, it was horrible, could not get a group to save my life with open sights. I would like to get a mold for boolits but not sure which size my barrel needs (I will slug my barrel) the load book calls for .454. I will use this rifle for plinking and to deer hunt with. What mold should I consider?

Thanks!

[Wheelguns 1961]

How old is your Marlin rifle? I have a fairly new Remlin 1894 cb. Everyone told me that I should shoot .454” bullets, but it shoots just fine with my .452” bullets. My rifle doesn’t like to feed hollowpoints, so I use a NOE 454-280 WFN in it. I powdercoat and size to .452”. It will be going in the woods with me in the morning.

You definitely need a crimp. I have never had a lee 3 die set, but I am assuming that the seat die also crimps. I use a Redding profile crimp die on mine, and seat and crimp separately. The NOE bullet is a little long but it feeds good. The gun will only hold 9 with this bullet and not 10.

[Winger Ed.]

All the seating dies I've ever seen have a crimp ability.
If your seater doesn't have a crimp ridge, its defective and you should send it back.

After seating, move the seating stem way up, raise the ram and screw the seating die down until it hits the case.
Then lower the die 1/8th of a turn. Run the round back up and it will crimp.
You can adjust it more or less for the amount of crimp ya want.

[Baltimoreed]

Does your rifle have micro groove or ballard rifling? I have one of each. I use them for cas so my 250-255 gr lead loads are not hot, not wussy either. You should be able to get good accuracy out of either. As winger said your seater die should also crimp.

[243winxb]

A gas check on the bullet may help accuracy with micro groove rifling.

[Bnt55]

OK, good suggestions and questions. I will get the rifle out in the morning and check the rifling. It is a new Marlin, bought last year.

[Tar Heel]

Read Step #6 completely and carefully. Your bullet seating die HAS a crimp position. The 4-Die sets have an alternate "Factory Crimp" die but even their bullet seat die has a crimp position too.

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[sharps4590]

I don't know about step #6 but, Tar Heel and Winger are right. That should have been covered in any loading manual and evidently it's step #6 in the instructions. 'Course they have to be read to know that.

[HD.375]

not sure if LEE do one for 45 colt, but i use one for the 375 win, an man can i put a crimp on a round :D
i slam it a few times to really make sure...... possibly why my ammo isnt super acurate??? different tensions an some allowing higher pressure build up maybe? idk but i dnt care :)

it allows the case to but up to it an it compresses the die to crimp the top.. lee collect factory crimp die ?

[Bnt55]

I guess I was used to the Lee factory crimp die, so I will revisit step #6 and get that straightened out. I will report back with my barrel slug measurements and all that jazz, so I can get a mold on order. I am really excited about this 45 colt, have been a Louis La'mour cowboy fan since I was kid. Thank you guys so much for the comments and suggestions. I can't wait to get my 45-70 rolling block barrel under way so I can pick your collective brains on that project:D

[Larry Gibson]

Also, the 45 Colt cartridge actually has a slight taper to it. If you FL size with a carbide die you will be sizing the bottom half of the case to much. With light loads the case will not obturate. With heavier loads the over working of the brass will shorten case life. If just shooting the 45 Colts through the marlin try backing the FL die out to just size the case to the seating depth of the bullet.

[Froogal]

Get the LEE factory crimp die. It will eliminate the possibility of slightly bulged cases that will not chamber. I speak from experience.

[mr surveyor]

unfortunately there is the confusing use of the title "LEE Factory Crimp Die". It looks like (to me - still a rookie) that the same title/name is used for two completely different styles od crimp die: one being a "standard" ring type die (which will tend to straighten out minor case bulges) and the other being a "collet" die that only "stabs" a crimp at the case mouth. I have, and use, both on the few different cartridges I load for, and have never had an issue.

LEE seems to have created the confusion by using the same name for both styles of crimp dies, without differentiating between the two.

just my semi-educated opinion

jd

[MT Gianni]

If you can find a steel die set for 45 colt it is far better as it sizes the taper. I don't mind lubing mine for the benefit it gives.

[Bnt55]

Well poop, did not know the case had a taper. Pretty sure I FL sized the one round I made so far. What brand of dies would be best for the 45LC?

Some Info on the rifle:

Marlin 1894 45 Long Colt
Ballard Rifling
Bore Slug measurement is .454/.4545


Do you think it would make sense to buy a few cast bullets of varying styles/sizes before committing to a mold? This is the first time I have looked for a mold specific to one of my guns, in the past I would just buy a Lee mold, pour some boolits, size, lube then shoot from one of my pistols. Sorta in new territory here.

[Froogal]

Well poop, did not know the case had a taper. Pretty sure I FL sized the one round I made so far. What brand of dies would be best for the 45LC?

Some Info on the rifle:

Marlin 1894 45 Long Colt
Ballard Rifling
Bore Slug measurement is .454/.4545


Do you think it would make sense to buy a few cast bullets of varying styles/sizes before committing to a mold? This is the first time I have looked for a mold specific to one of my guns, in the past I would just buy a Lee mold, pour some boolits, size, lube then shoot from one of my pistols. Sorta in new territory here.

I have reloaded many, many .45 Colt cartridges using the LEE 4 die set. Never had any issues except when I failed to use the factory crimp die and the bullets unseated due to recoil and jammed my revolver.

[Tar Heel]

First and foremost, seating and crimping in the same step is really not a good idea, hence the case bulges. To be as simple as possible, adjust the bullet seating die down and back it off to be sure no crimping is happening. If you do not have a 38/357 spacer ring to use, back it off a quarter inch and lock it down. Seat your bullets. REMOVE the bullet seating plug, back the die off several turns and run a case with a seated bullet all the way up. Screw the seat/crimp die down until it stops. Lower the ram a tad and screw the crimp die down a bit and you will feel it crimp. Inspect the crimp. adjust die down until a good roll crimp exists and leave the ram up while you lock the die in that position. Crimp the rest of your cartridges. It isn't rocket science at all. Seating and crimping in the same step is PROBLEMATIC. If you are bulging cases, this is probably why.

For all intents and purposes, the 45 Colt is a straight wall case. The taper is negligible and has no dynamic or ballistic effect whatsoever. That's why the cases get so nasty on the outside when firing black powder. They don't obturate well like a 44-40 or a 38-40 with a bottleneck.

A good roll crimp will look like this:

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Again, seat all the bullets, then crimp all the bullets. TWO separate steps. Combining the two steps can cause all kinds of problems and is detrimental to good accuracy and a quality handload.

[Baltimoreed]

It’s the 45colt’s case thickness not a taper that keeps it from sealing the chamber. The .38-40 and .44-40 cases are a whole lot thinner and easily expand to seal the chamber. The trade off though is that its much easier to wreck the thinner dash cases if you are careless sizing or seating. Just have to make sure the case is centered in the shell holder and bullet is straight.

[Mk42gunner]

My Marlin 1894CB in .45 Colt (from 2000 or 2001) runs fine with .452" projectiles, but if yours does in fact have a .454"+ barrel, the larger diameter will probably be best.

If this is the only gun you have in .45 Colt, I would look at the Lee 45RNFP, or one of the custom mold makers where you have a better chance of getting a boolit that is large enough.

Robert

[Soundguy]

MOST lee seating dies have a crimp appropriate for the cartridge type..ie..roll. You can always crimp in another step and get a dedicated FCD.

Ps..my lee 45colt dies roll crimp fine

[Bmi48219]

I’m sure a FCD die is the best way to got but I get a solid crimp, correct seat depth and very good accuracy with a 45 LC Lee 3 die set, seating and crimping on the same stroke. You will waste a few bullets setting the dies up but compared to going through the process of resetting the seat stem and crimp depth every time you load a batch, it’s a no brainer, to me anyway. The Lee instructions give the procedure but you’ve got to go through the adjustment process and figure on pulling a few bullets before you get it right.
If you’re like me 99% of your reloads are for target shooting and/or plinking and use the same bullet and COL. So my dies get set one time, period. I’ll load 500 round at a sitting and get consistent length and crimp batch to batch. I have four turrets for my one press, each turret holds 6 dies so each turret loads two different cartridges. Once they’re set the dies never get adjusted. For me an inconsistent crimp can only occur if the length of my brass is inconsistent. By sticking to one head stamp of brass that doesn’t happen. If case lengths vary a mill or two seating depth stays the same but your crimp will change because a short case won’t go into the crimp die as far. Set & forget is my motto unless I change bullets.

[JimB..]

If I’m applying a roll crimp into a groove I do it with the seating die. The case mouth is hanging over the groove not touching the bullet, it’s the perfect time to apply the roll crimp. Only issue is if case length varies, but that’d be no different if doing it as a separate step.

FWIW, I apply a taper crimp in a separate step because I find that thick brass (in mixed brass) can cause too much taper and that can damage the bullet.

[GypsmJim]

I started reloading .45 Colt in 1974 using a lee 3 die set. Many thousands of rounds have gone down the pipes in my 4 Colt revolvers with outstanding results.

All my .45 boolets have a cannelure or crimping groove. The seating die / combo roll crimper is what you need. If you use a straight walled bullet with no groove, or if you are shooting a semi, then a FCD with a taper crimp would be better. Regardless, with a "proper" technique the seating die will be just fine.

I bought a Lee 4-die set once, just to try the FCD. Used it once. Performance no different. Just takes longer. Never used it a second time.

[Tim357]

Also, the 45 Colt cartridge actually has a slight taper to it. If you FL size with a carbide die you will be sizing the bottom half of the case to much. With light loads the case will not obturate. With heavier loads the over working of the brass will shorten case life. If just shooting the 45 Colts through the marlin try backing the FL die out to just size the case to the seating depth of the bullet.

100% correct

[Outpost75]

Many of the Marlin .45 Colt lever rifles have huge chambers which do not permit expanding the brass to seal the chamber in standard pressure loads. Mine will accept as-cast and unsized bullets from Accurate 45-290H mold at .455 diameter in 1 to 30 tin-lead alloy from Roto Metals and Starline brass seals the chambers well with 7.5 grains of Bullseye, which I shoot also in my Colt New Service, Ruger Vaquero and Cimarron Pistolero l. Also accurate in my Rossi '92 clone.

[Walks]

I don't use Lee dies, their Carbide sizers reduce the case dramatically.
An old steel Lyman AA set works great for loading accurate loads. Love the M-Die. I have both RCBS & Lyman Carbide sets.
Both Lyman & RCBS give you SWC & RN seating stems. Between the two they'll handle just about any bullet profile.
I consider the Lee fcd an Abomination. And no I'm not a Lee hater, I have at least a dozen or more molds going back 40yrs.

I would follow Outpost75's advice before all others.

[Soundguy]

It's no abomination if you understand when and how to use it correctly. I can understand someone not liking it if they didn't know how , when, or why to possibly use it. ;)

[mr surveyor]

The LEE Carbide Factory Crimp Die has the "ring" .... the LEE Factory Crimp Die is a collet style (stab crimp) .... BIG difference. Once the naysayers that trash the FCD understand the difference, there may not be quite as much hate and discontent.

just my opinions


jd

[Soundguy]

Yup.. And the lee die with the carbide sizer...the sizer ring can be easily removed