Ruger SP-101, .327 Federal

[exile]

I said earlier that I would give my impressions of this new gun and cartridge when I finally got out and shot it. I did last Friday. Here is a review of my thoughts on my blog. Please remember I am no expert, like I said, these are just my initial thoughts.

[Harry O]

I read the Handloader magazine article about the .327 also. He is right that Rugers (particularly the Sp-101) have rough rifling.

I tried to speed up the .38 Special with soft-lead hollow-base wadcutters many years ago. My wife had just gotten an SP-101 in .38 Special (this was before they had them in .357 Mag). Anyway, I found that I had to keep the load in the SP-101 about 15% lower than in my other .38 Specials (S&W and Colt) in order to keep it from leading.

I also read the part about the gas checks raising pressure. The way I intrepreted that is that gas checks probably give the same pressure as jacketed. Lead gives less pressure. However, it was not clear.

I have not decided whether or not to get a .327 Magnum. I already have two .32 Mags, one a Ruger Single-Six and a S&W Model 631 Kitgun. They do what I need done in that caliber. I also had a S&W NewModel 16 in .32 Mag, but had it rechambered to 32-20. I load that one up higher than the .32 Mags, however, not as hot as the .327 is reported to be. I don't know how the .327 will turn out, but the 32-20 seems to prefer the 100gr Hornady XTP's to the 85gr XTP's when loaded hot.

[exile]

Wow! That is one beautiful Smith and Wesson. I was happy with my SP-101, but...

exile

[Harry O]

It is one of my most accurate handguns (every bit as accurate as my K-38 and K-22). I have loaded it up to as much as 1,250fps to 1,300fps. It is moderately loud, but no recoil to speak of. Most shooting is done at 1,150fps. That seems to be its sweetest spot.

I had a little trouble getting it working, though. The guy who originally reamed it out (a nationally known gunsmith who lives 35 miles from here) evidently had sharpened the reamer and it was a little smaller in diameter than standard. Some cases I could not fit in the gun at all. Others, I had problems with one chamber, so I eventually marked it and loaded it as a 5-shooter instead of putting up with the aggravation. I later ran across a gunsmith who was just setting up and he had a 32-20 reamer that had never been used. I had him run it down each of the chambers and all the loads just drop in now.

Because of the heavier loads, I use only Starline brass in it now. Winchester is the thinnest and Remington is the largest case. The Starline is both small and heavy. BTW, the 32-20 reamer (even the new one) did not completely clean up the old .32 Magnum chamber. The case comes out of the chamber with a double bottleneck. It is not a problem, though. It is accurate and the brass still splits at the neck before it splits at the transition.

Whenever I get depressed by the size of my groups when shooting a 41LC or and 9mm service semi-auto, I just take this to the range and shoot a few groups. It makes me feel better knowing that the problem is with the other guns, not me. Besides, any gun that makes me look good is a keeper. This one is a keeper.

[jdgabbard]

You say your SP-101 has rough rifling? Well, I cannot speak for all rugers. But I do own an SP-101, a P89, a 22-45 and a PC9. And I can tell you that the rifling in them is not rough at all. Out of my wheel guns, I have two favorites. A Model 65 Smith and a SP-101 in .38spl. And I can honestly say that the SP-101 has just as nice if not a nicer bore then the gently used smith. Not to mention I have never had a problem with leading in it.

The long and short of it is that not ALL Rugers have rough rifling. I have seen some that look pretty bad. And I have seen others that have bores looking like mirrors with sharp riflings.

[exile]

Just curious, but once I get around to shooting cast boolits out of my SP-101, what can be done if the rifling is rough? Will something like fire lapping cure it? I don't know if there would be a solution or not. Just asking.

exile

[MT Gianni]

Just curious, but once I get around to shooting cast boolits out of my SP-101, what can be done if the rifling is rough? Will something like fire lapping cure it? I don't know if there would be a solution or not. Just asking.

exile

Start with at least 200 rds of jacketed and see what that does to smooth it out. Clean in between at regular intervals with a good rod protecting the crown. Follow with a tight patch and feel if you are improving. For a while Ruger had the hardest SS in the industry with some rifles requiring 200 rds break-in. There were hunters that don't shoot that much in 25 years complaining about their accuracy and cost of factory ammo to do that.

[Harry O]

I sometimes hesitate in making statements, even when they are based on first-hand experience. There is very often someone who will take the comment personally and get unnecessarily upset. I am happy for anyone who has a trouble-free handgun, Ruger or otherwise.

However, mine has a rough bore, just like the guy in Hanloading magazine who tested the new .327. I realize that shooting a whole bunch of jacketed bullets through the SP101 would probably smooth the bore, but that costs a fair amount of money. Most (probably 98%) of the boolits shot through my wife's SP-101 have been lead, and probably half of them were soft-lead.

I have a LBT fire-lapping kit and have tried it on a couple of handguns. I followed the instuctions exactly. I was not trying to smooth the bore with either of them, though. I was trying to improve the accuracy. It did not increase the accuracy and did not decrease the accuracy. I have not used it since. This might be something to try on the SP-101, though.

[NHlever]

Hmm, Normally, the rifling in Ruger handgun barrels is pretty good. The single actions have hammer forged barrels, as do the super Redhawks. The others are gundrilled, reamed, bore broached ( pulling a bore sized broach through the barrel to get all the tooling marks in the direction of bullet travel) and then rifled with a broach. As with other companies they do have other problems like rough forcing cones, poor crowns, and sometimes restrictions / constrictions at the barrel / frame junction that cause leading. Chamber / bore alignment can be off too though that seems to be more of a problem with single actions than the double actions for some reason. I do think that the barrels are moved from one holding fixture to another between bore broaching, and rifling so it would be possible that they might not be concentric, but rather doubtful. The other thing that I really suspect with the .327 mag is that the pressures we are seeing here are much higher than we would normally shoot plain based cast bullets at. Instead of looking just at the velocities that cause leading in this caliber, I think we should be looking at the pressure of that load. This is not really black magic, certain tolerances, and relationships have to be in place with any gun / load if it is going to perform with plain based cast bullets. The 32-20 is a much larger case, so comparisons between the velocities that cause leading in that caliber with the same velocities in the .327 mag are not valid.

[Willbird]

It is probably also worth having a look at some recovered bullets. Fire them into a pipe filled with fiberfill and see if they are shorter then before they were fired. This takes 2-3 bags of fiberfill, it will wrap around the bullets into a ball thus slowing them down....3' of it will stop a 357 maximum. On a side note the bullets are hot as hades just after firing.

I have seen this in 357 maximum, it is from acceleration I think. One example was Remington 158 grain condom jhp bullets, they shortened up so much that the lead nose came out to touch the rifling. if this is going on you may need a stronger alloy. This was in a contender not a revolver, I would expect the 327 to share some qualities with the 357 maximum maybe.

Bill

[Harry O]

I have done a LOT of shooting with the 41 Long Colt, which I cast at 50:1. The boolits measured approx Bhn 6 to 6.2. It was necessary so that they could "bump up" to fill the oversized bore. I recovered some of them.

The boolits were about halfway between the "as cast" diameter and the bore/groove diameter. However the grooves were even and uniform along the full length of the boolit. It did NOT just expand in the skirt. In other words, the entire boolit expanded in diameter (and shortened) to fill the bore/grooves. Part of the deformation was in the "elastic range" (which disappeared after it left the barrel) and part was in the "plastic range" (which remained after it left the barrel). That is why they were about halfway between the original diameter and the diameter of the bore/groove when I recovered them.

All boolits do the same. However, the harder the boolit, the more will be in the elastic range and the less will be in the plastic range (and may be zero). Some people (including me, Richard Lee, and Veral Smith) believe that the Bhn (of the boolit) x 1,422 should be equal to the maximum cartridge pressure. That means the deformation into the plastic range is zero. I also know that some people here take that statement as an insult so I won't push it.

All I know is that I have NEVER been able to shoot my .357 Magnum with full loads with a plain base boolit regardless of how hard I make them (I have gotten up to Bhn's in the low 20's). The .327 reportedly has pretty much the same pressure as the .357. I would not expect a plain base to work unless it was greatly downloaded. On the other hand, I use the 358156-GC with my .357 Magnum with 13.5gr of 2400 and don't have problems with poor accuracy or leading. I would think that the 311316-GC (from memory, but it is the one for the 32-20 with a GC) should work great for the .327"

[jdgabbard]

Another idea that comes to mind if you are having leading problems with this gun, and I don't know what boolits you're using, is to try a mold like the Lee C309-113-F. It is a gascheck design, and although it is a bit on the small side, you might be able to beagle the mold out to the appropriate size. Just a though, and you might try it. It may turn out to be the cure for the issue.

[Cooter]

Question if I may....

What does the .327 do that the good old .32Magnum can't do in a real world context?

From what little I remember when it first was mentioned in the gun magazines it sounded pretty much like a .32Mag by another name, hence the above question.

My apologies for the hijack.

[Three44s]

My system:

USP or JB Bore paste and use it to clean along with whatever solvent combo you use.

Use it until your bore's leading abates itself.

Clean leading in the meantime with Copper Chore Girl.

OR ........

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

Click on the left side bar on "book" ...... at $15 postage paid ..... it's a steal! Even if you don't subscribe to the fire lapping section .... this book gives and GIVES!!!!

Three 44s

[monadnock#5]

Exile sent a PM asking my thoughts on the SP101 .327. I wasn't interested in getting involved in the controversy to date, but with the general understanding that God hates a coward, here goes.

I bought it late last fall. My buddy Mike, took me to a gun shop that I had never been to before. There, at the State Line GS in Mason NH, I found the SP101, the first in .327 mag that I had seen. I bought it, along with four boxes of the Federal soft points.

On the way home we stopped at a gravel pit for test firing. No go. I had bought my first lemon. It wouldn't fire on two chambers, the same two, every time. Extraction was sticky to the point that at one point I was looking for the right size rock before my senses came back to me. The gun was back on the counter less than two hours after purchase.

Ruger kept it the obligatory six weeks before I saw it again. I don't know what they did to it, I didn't ask, I don't care really. I just wanted it fixed, and they did. It works fine now. So far so good anyway.

I like it. I like it just fine. I bought a concealment holster for it and have taken it on several excursions. No shots fired in anger thus far, and that's all to the good. It shoots to point of aim with the Fed soft points and Fed SD loads. 150 and 15 rounds respectively. I've always preferred fully adj sights, but as long as it shoots to point of aim I'm happy. Shooting cast will be the real test. But that will have to wait until spring. Shooting with a frost bitten trigger finger was never my idea of fun.

There you are exile. No, I don't mind you asking. I'm glad you did. Everyone has their own opinion. I'm sorry you had to hang out on that limb all by your self as long as you did. With me out there on the limb with you, we'll be back on the ground in no time.;)

[exile]

Thanks for the response. Sorry you got a lemon. I guess I should fire mine more than six times before I make up my mind, but I like it. Thinking about getting a "simply rugged" holster for it as featured in "gunblast" or maybe just a fanny pack.

exile

[Crash_Corrigan]

My buddy bought one new and was not happy with it. The barrel was skewed to the left and the chambers were really rough. He sent it back to Charter. They realigned the barrel and replaced the cylinder.

He still did not like it. He has an issue with hand strength and the recoil was bothering him. He is a dedicated .45 ACP fan and probably has a dozen or so of 1911's and Glocks. He begged me to take it. I did.

Unable to find any brass anywhere I had to buy some factory ammo from Midway. Please forgive me members but I had no choice.

Federal 100 GR Jacketed Soft Points are listed on the box to achieve 1500 FPS with a respectable number of foot pounds of energy. I believe them.

This is not a gun for granny! I used to have a Rossi 2" bbl 357 six shooter. I hated it. I usually could only fire 3 rounds and then quit even with gloves on. Very nasty recoil and blast with factory full power loads. Miserable trigger and generally a cheaper gun in all respects. When it was stolen, I did not shed a tear.

The Charter 327 was accurate and although brisk and loud the recoil was manageable for me with a two handed grip. It shot to point of aim at 12 yds and that is as much as I want for a 2.2" bbl CCW revolter.

I tried reloading the 327 Factory brass but alas I got a set of clinker dies from Dillon and they are now in the hands of USPS and on their way back to Papa Dillon for a new set.

I have a 32-98 mold in SWC which I will mess with and prpbably load some Unique and look for 800 to 1000 FPS and some accuracy.

The gun looks good, handles well, has a nice feel to it and has a lifetime warranty.
It came with a very nice belt holster and a pair of speedloaders. Yes it is bigger than my Taurus M=85 Ultralight and a mite heavier but I believe an extra round and ballistics that put a .38+P to shame are worth the bother. I just need to shoot it some more to develop confidence in the weapon and sharpen my skill set with a different gun.

[monadnock#5]

I had a problem. I dealt with it. Although it was tough, really really tough, I even dealt with it like an adult.

What pains me is that I know that someone out there (not members of this Board) will buy one of these just like mine, dry fire it a dozen or two times, load it up and hand it to someone they love and say "while I'm away, you can protect yourself from the drunk down the hall..."

A gallon of gasoline and a pack of matches... well, you get the idea.