GFI issues

[Bmi48219]

Three of our external outlets, one GFI outlet in the garage feeds a patio outlet, outlet in front courtyard & outlet near A/C compressor. For a year now the circuit goes dead requiring me to reset the GFI outlet in garage to restore power to the outlets. I replaced the garage GFI outlet without success.
The outlets on the house exterior are protected by weatherproof covers. None are in continuous use, or have any device plugged into them for longer than it takes to complete an ordinary task, like vacuuming a car. The GFI protected circuits in bathrooms and kitchen almost never trip.
I’d welcome any diagnostic ideas.

[smoked turkey]

I suspect the outlets exposed to moisture are tripping the GFCI. i have experienced that too long a run due to very small leakage between the hot (120v in this case) and the neutral is also enough to trip the GFCI. They are very sensitive. i would disconnect the outlet(s) and see if the problem persists. If so it could be leakage of the romex.

[Winger Ed.]

I had a similar problem with some outlets in the garage.
Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't.
But the breaker didn't trip.

I plugged in one of those tester things with the little lights on it, and it showed a bad/open neutral.
After a lot of head scratching, I found a corded power strip plugged into an outlet on the circuit that was bad.
Whenever it felt like it- the thing would short the ground wire to the neutral.
I don't understand why, but getting rid of the plug in strip fixed it.

The GFI might be OK, and its doing what something else is 'telling' it to do.
Those GFIs are pretty sensitive, maybe you have something like that going on
with another outlet in the circuit.

[shell70634]

I had to replace every outside gfi outlet with standard outlets within 2 years of building my house. I don't know if they make gfi's that can withstand the elements or not, but I have never had one that works well. You could try a gfi breaker for that circuit.

Shelly

[Texas by God]

If you have a sprinkler system, check to see if the outside GFI outlet is getting wet. I've seen this happen a few times.

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[Bmi48219]

I purchased and installed a new GFI outlet in the garage. I know it’s wired correctly, power from panel into the top, load from bottom. Ground lead connected. I tested line hot & common and they are live. No power on load side. The new GFI outlet appears to be tamper resistant, it has internal shutters blocking a plug from being inserted. Going to pull the 3 outlets the GFI protects in the morning to see if they are wet inside or have a lose ground wire.

[jsizemore]

I did some repairs on a rental unit that had a GFCI that was connected to the condensate pump in the crawlspace that would trip sporadically. When it rained really hard the front porch roof runoff would douse the outside outlet that was part of that GFCI circuit. That foam gasket wasn't up to the keeping outlet dry. I bent a piece of flashing that tucked up underneath the bottom edge of the lap siding above the outlet and cover from a coke can. Drip edge of the flashing is beyond the face of the outlet cover. Outlet still gets used on a regular basis for the past 2 years without a problem.

To determine that that outlet was the problem, I pulled the wire out of the box and capped each conductor with a wirenut and tape to prove it was the source of the fault.

[Hannibal]

I had to replace every outside gfi outlet with standard outlets within 2 years of building my house. I don't know if they make gfi's that can withstand the elements or not, but I have never had one that works well. You could try a gfi breaker for that circuit.

Shelly

Be VERY careful. GFCI outlets are required by electric code in exterior locations due to the very real danger of electrocution/death.

I know you didn't ask for advise, but I would make sure GFCI outlets go back into those locations or install GFCI breakers if I were you. The breakers are typically considerably more expensive.

[wildwilly501]

I think I’d just replace the three regular outlets when you have them opened up they don’t cost much

[Bmi48219]

Yep, the three outlets on the home exterior are fed / protected by the GFI Outlet in the garage that’s giving me fits. That’s the one I have to get functioning. Either it instantly recognizes the ground they share is bad or maybe the common.
Going to check the outside outlets, could be something simple.

[Catshooter]

Bmi,


Here's how a GFI works. In order to do work electricity has to flow, move. It flows out on one wire and back on the other. In a perfect circuit, both wires have exactly the same amount of amps on it. The GFI measures each wire's amperage and compares the two. If they differ by more than five thousandths of an amp (if I recall correctly) it trips. So if there is leak of power the GFI will see it. The GFI can't even see the ground wire, pays no attention to it, doesn't need it to work.

If you've replaced the GFI and still no joy then there is power leaking somewhere for some reason. It's doing it's job, no matter what a pain in the butt it may be. Moisture can do it easily at any of the outlets. Or a mouse gnawing on a wire. Look around, you'll find it now that you know how it works can help.

[Newboy]

Some electric motors do not like GFI outlets.


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[Mal Paso]

Some electric motors do not like GFI outlets.


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There are motor rated GFIs.

Pass and Seymour used to be my problem solver. No nuisance tripping and they lasted. Now they are $15 wholesale and trip every time the power goes out.

Leviton is the Worst. I had to replace 1 out of every 3 I installed within months.

[1006]

Check all of the outlets for loose wire connections an moisture. Electricity vibrates, and connections can become loose with time. GFI outlets do wear out and require replacing; some last longer than others. You might have a pinched wire with damaged insulation. It could also be a loose wire between the breaker connection and the GFI. Lightening can trip them, as well.

[William Yanda]

I clicked on this thread expecting to find information about GFI brass. Silly me.

[BeeMan]

If nothing more obvious shows up, you might also want to check for insects, nests or webs, and corrosion on the exposed portions of wiring inside the covered boxes on the outside receptacles. Same for the load output side of the GFI outlet in the garage. These can hold moisture that allows the leakage current that will trip the GFI. And moisture doesn't have to be liquid water. It can be condensation due to temperature changes on the outlets outside or even in the garage. We saw some strange things in outside electrical service with HVAC equipment.

[MaryB]

Condensation on spider webs kept tripping the one on my deck. When I took it apart the box was packed with web... and it had caused corrosion so I cleaned it out, replaced the outlet, sealed the box up except for a small weep hole at the bottom so condensation doesn't fill it with water. Check the weep hole yearly to make sure dust doesn't plug it. Used some of those foam outlet gaskets to seal the face up.

[Bmi48219]

Found the problem, exterior protected outlet by A/C compressor. That’s the problem with CBS-Stucco construction. Wall surface around outlet cover isn’t smooth enough for a good seal with the thin foam sealing pad included in weatherproof outlet cover. Trimmed high spots on stucco with a grinder and silicone sealed top & sides of cover. The other two outlets were ok for being 21 years old. I knew I had a duplex outlet saved from when I switched interior outlets to Deco style somewhere. Just took 1/2 hour to find it. Up & running now. Thanks for all the input!

291582

[David2011]

I had to replace every outside gfi outlet with standard outlets within 2 years of building my house. I don't know if they make gfi's that can withstand the elements or not, but I have never had one that works well. You could try a gfi breaker for that circuit.

Shelly

Weather resistant GFI outlets are available. I just installed one a couple of weeks ago.

I bought a house that had GFI outlets on every outdoor outlet. They tripped constantly. An electrician told me that having multiple GFI outlets on a circuit can be a problem. According to him, it makes them more sensitive. It didn’t make sense since each one is a standalone device but replacing all but the first one in the circuit with standard outlets plus installing a new GFI in the first box on the circuit solved the problem.

[Randy Bohannon]

I am just finishing up rewiring my entire house, I used a local electrician to help to not do it wrong and bring it 100% up to code. I located all of the boxes and pulled all of the wires one of the coolest things in modern electrical wiring is putting the GFI’s in the panel with everything on that circuit GFI protected without all the problems with individual GFI’s allowing to use non GFI outlets anywhere and be protected. Also having outlets and lights separated makes for a stable residential electrical system.

[gwpercle]

Replace you GFI outlets as soon as they start acting squirrely (wonky) ... they don't last that long and they can't be fixed . Get the GFI off any circuit with a motor ... when the inspector isn't looking replace it with a non-GFI .
The fool who wired our office had the refrigerator on the circuit with the GFI in a hall bathroom .
It was OK for a few years but suddenly the refrig. started " malfuncting" ...going off ...Bought a new refrig. and low and behold ...it weren't a bad refrig ... it was the bad GFI outlet in the hall bathroom .
Although GFI's are required in certian locations ... they can be more trouble than they are worth .
Gary

[lightman]

Glad you found the problem and that it was simple. Many GFI receptacle has been replaced when it was actually doing its job. I also think the newer ones are less problematic than they were years ago.

When I wired houses I would put the GFI on an inside wall that protected the outside outlet. Being inside the GFI was less likely to fail and lasted longer.

[gwpercle]

Glad you found the problem and that it was simple. Many GFI receptacle has been replaced when it was actually doing its job. I also think the newer ones are less problematic than they were years ago.

When I wired houses I would put the GFI on an inside wall that protected the outside outlet. Being inside the GFI was less likely to fail and lasted longer.

You're Good !
That's a neat way to do it ... they do last much longer on inside wall .
Gary

[Shawlerbrook]

GFI outlets are nothing but a pain in the butt in my opinion. Where they are required I prefer just using a GFI breaker. They seem to be much more dependable.

[Bmi48219]

GFI outlets are nothing but a pain in the butt ….

They are when there’s a problem. I don’t know how many lives have been saved or fires averted by their use but in that regard they make sense. I’ve hot changed lots of switches and outlets, and got poked several times too. It says something that none of those pokes ever tripped a breaker. I’m thinking any poke would trip a GFI.
I’ve noticed different people have different sensitivity to electric shock. Some get really zapped, some just a little tingle. I lean toward the tingle end on the sensitivity scale, at least with 120 vac. In my youth we used to bet on who could hold on to a finishing nail stuck in a wall socket the longest.

[jsizemore]

Chasing girls is more fun than shocking yourself.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

We had to put GFI circuit breakers in when we remodeled our kitchen. One of them trips frequently. Darn things are not reliable.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

They are when there’s a problem. I don’t know how many lives have been saved or fires averted by their use but in that regard they make sense. I’ve hot changed lots of switches and outlets, and got poked several times too. It says something that none of those pokes ever tripped a breaker. I’m thinking any poke would trip a GFI.
I’ve noticed different people have different sensitivity to electric shock. Some get really zapped, some just a little tingle. I lean toward the tingle end on the sensitivity scale, at least with 120 vac. In my youth we used to bet on who could hold on to a finishing nail stuck in a wall socket the longest.

120 is plenty enough to kill you outright if you are well grounded. Mostly in the home that is not the case.

[Catshooter]

120 is plenty enough to kill you outright if you are well grounded. Mostly in the home that is not the case.

You mean like in the bathtub, a baby in the bathroom sink, up to your elbows in the kitchen sink, a nice mud puddle outside your deck, a wet concrete garage floor, like grounded like that? Yep, never happens.

Certainly doesn't happen every day, but when all the **** that can go wrong does, the consequence's are pretty ugly. The bathroom GFI outlet requirement was inserted into the National Electrical Code in the early '70s because two or three infants died in the bathroom sink when the hair dryer got dunked. In one year.

The old wives tale that 120 can't kill you is false, I agree with you on that one. The amount of incorrect info surrounding the world of electricity is about the same as surrounds the firearm world. A ton.

[Lloyd Smale]

I had to replace every outside gfi outlet with standard outlets within 2 years of building my house. I don't know if they make gfi's that can withstand the elements or not, but I have never had one that works well. You could try a gfi breaker for that circuit.

Shelly

I dont use them. When they wired my new house they told me they had to put them in. I would have done the job myself but with the operation comming and the pain i was in it was impossible. So when i told the electrician i didnt want any he said they were mandatory by code but he left a replacement for all 4 of them so i could swap them out. I once had one in my pole barn on a circuit i had a freezer on and went to get something out of it after it had sat for about a month and was greeted with a very foul smelling mess and about 500 dollars in lost food. They are hair triggers that sometimes dont need a reason to trip. If you want one in your bathroom in case you blow dry your hair in the bath tube have at it. But ive been a lineman all my life and have been around electricity and have never seen even one instance of them saving someone. To me there nothing but a headache. To me they make about as much sense as putting a saftey ON THE SAFETY of your deer rifle.

[Bmi48219]

120 is plenty enough to kill you outright if you are well grounded. Mostly in the home that is not the case.

When you think about it the combination of old two prong, ungrounded outlets, overloaded screw-in fuses and copper pennies must curled plenty of hair.

[Catshooter]

Lloyd,

Totally true, when they first came out. Nuisance tripping was a real hassle for everyone involved and a constant, impossible thing to trouble shoot.

But that was 50+ years ago man! They've come a long way since then. If they trip now they've either died inside or there is a real, actual problem. Look at what the OP found in this case.

Catch up with reality or not, whatever. But giving bad advice is unhelpful for people.

[MT Gianni]

If you really want to talk about poor products, lets go with arc fault breakers. When I built in 2018 they were mandatory for most circuits in the living area. Took the price of a breaker from $6 to $45. Now you end up running as many outlets as you can on a breaker. Engineering job justification, IMO.

[BunkTheory]

alot of builders and electricians will hook the internal GFCI outlets, like in teh bathroom, to the outside ones.

learned the hard way

[jimlj]

Lloyd,

Totally true, when they first came out. Nuisance tripping was a real hassle for everyone involved and a constant, impossible thing to trouble shoot.

But that was 50+ years ago man! They've come a long way since then. If they trip now they've either died inside or there is a real, actual problem. Look at what the OP found in this case.

Catch up with reality or not, whatever. But giving bad advice is unhelpful for people.

I agree. When GFI's first were required they tripped with about anything plugged into them. Over the years the technology has improved to where there are few trips where a real problem does not exist. Over the years I've often wondered if the initial problems with GFCI circuits were the totally the fault of the breaker or the old tools and cords we used? I remember some of the junk cords, drills and other tools we had around the farm in the 60's and 70's. It's a wonder with the junk tools we had and throw in drinking from a garden hose and riding in the back of the pickup, anyone from that era ever survived.