True big bore reloading [Archive]

cwtebay

11-10-2021, 12:33 AM

I was asked to look through a client's gun collection recently and it appears that he went through a love affair for big boomers. I know that some of you have extensive experience in this department - how different/ more difficult is it to reload for cartridges such as 577 NE, 600 NE, a whole slough of Jefferies cartridges...etc?
The biggest thing I reload is 50-90 - and that's in black powder!
Is it feasible to load these down for a more pleasant shooting experience? Does anyone cast for these? Is it possible to use a normal reloading press?
I must admit that I am intrigued by this collection!! And I'm sure at least one of my kids doesn't really NEED to go to college!
I'm sure this is going to be the first of many questions that I ask about this venture.
Thank you all in advance.

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Winger Ed.

11-10-2021, 12:55 AM

The most common 577 case length is 3".

A .30-06 case is almost 2 & 1/2".
You might be able to wiggle it up into a standard press for seating, but it'll be a little snug.
As far as reduced loads, there is recipes for the original ones using Holy Black.
You might have to get it custom made, but surely a mold is available.
Same for dies--- I wouldn't count on them being on the shelf at Midway.

I think I'd ohhh,,, ahhh,,, and drool all over it for a few minutes,,, and then hand it back.

Bad Ass Wallace

11-10-2021, 04:01 AM

I love my "big bores" for shear fun and giggles. I built a 577 Snider on a Martini Henry action and load 92gns of FFG and a 620gn cast boolit.

https://i.imgur.com/0b7mFCph.jpg

ndnchf

11-10-2021, 06:04 AM

I have some experience with a #1 rolling block in .58 Roberts. Fortunately its not a long cartridge, so its not brutal. It holds 60gr of 2F and uses a special, 500gr oversize minie ball. I'm able to load it with just a few simple tools.

sharps4590

11-10-2021, 08:36 AM

I loaded a 500 BPE 3 in. and a 450/400 Jeffrey 3 in. for a couple decades with an RCBS Reloader Special 3 press. Yes, I did have to wiggle the bullets sort of up into the die to seat them. I loaded a 577/450 on the same press but had to remove the bushing as the dies were the larger size. No problem on my Rock chucker.

elk hunter

11-10-2021, 10:23 AM

I load for some of the larger calibers including some that the cases are 3 1/4" long. You have to fiddle with them a bit to get them in to the dies using an RCBS rockchucker but it does work. The real expense after the guns can be brass and dies. I haven't seen any Bell or Jamison 577 brass for sale in several years and if you do find some expect to pay at least $8.00 each. You might be able to locate some Bertram brass from Australia for the bigger stuff. Dies from RCBS for the bigger calibers are quite expensive, like $600.00 for 577. CH4D should be cheaper. I was lucky to buy two used sets but they were still over $100.00 each. Some of the older British calibers were not standardized so they may require custom dies. Again very expensive. I have bullet moulds for all my big stuff which helps in cutting costs a bunch. Shooting the big stuff is expensive but where else could you spend your money and have so much fun.

rbuck351

11-10-2021, 12:15 PM

The only big bore I have is a 69 cal rifled muzzle loader. Don't need brass or dies or a huge press so it should be cheap to shoot but I haven't finished it yet.

cwtebay

11-10-2021, 12:33 PM

Update - he does have some dies that go with each caliber. But he said he had a friend do his reloading so no press. He does have several boxes of bullets and around 100 pieces of brass for each.
Sorry - should have put that in the first post.
He mentioned something about "British powder" that was good but tough to get. Any ideas on what he could mean there?
His memory is not fantastic these days.

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dverna

11-10-2021, 12:48 PM

It is great he has brass as I imagine that will be very costly.

Funny how what is big for me is not the same as what is big for others. The .375 H&H seems big to me...LOL.

Should be an interesting project.

Winger Ed.

11-10-2021, 01:25 PM

He mentioned something about "British powder" that was good but tough to get. Any ideas on what he could mean there?

Back in the old days, the Brits. used cordite for some loadings.
He might be referring to that.

cwtebay

11-10-2021, 03:19 PM

Back in the old days, the Brits. used cordite for some loadings.
He might be referring to that.I did consider that! Asked him if it looked like spaghetti, he said he didn't think so. But.....
Pretty sure I'm not up to the challenge of using that!

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papalote

11-10-2021, 03:57 PM

I load for a 585 Nyati. I use the big RCBS press.

Mk42gunner

11-10-2021, 06:18 PM

Didn't RCBS make a stretched version of the Rockchucker fairly recently? If not that, you could probably find one of the presses meant for loading the .50 BMG and use it. Getting the proper adapters to use the current dies in the press may be a slight problem.

I've kind of been pondering the bigbore question myself, one of the semi local fun stores has a Snider. He's got it priced a bit high for the condition, I think.

Robert

Petander

11-10-2021, 06:30 PM

Didn't RCBS make a stretched version of the Rockchucker fairly recently?

Yes,the Big RC would work great. Luckily 470 NE is going good with my Redding Big Boss II. But it's about the max comfortable length.

Those big ones bring really big savings when you cast and reload. Brass will cost but it lasts forever especially if you load practise loads lighter and neck size. I save $250-500 every week when I shoot a box or two of cast 470 NE.

At least that's how l explained it to my wife.

biffj

11-10-2021, 07:00 PM

I reload some 20mm and 24mm stuff though only the 20mm is truly shoulder fired. Its a bit over 600 gr of powder with a 1600gr projectile at around 3000fps. I use an RCBS Ammomaster press with the 50 BMG conversion. The conversion consists of the screw in shell holder for the 20mmX138B case, the shell plate extensions which are 3 steel columns that replace the shorter version on the regular press and removing the bushing for the 7/8 " dies so you can use the 1.5" diameter dies. For the little stuff you're talking about you may have 1.25" diameter dies and the rockchucker presses have a removable bushing so you can use them.

Frank

15meter

11-10-2021, 07:28 PM

I did consider that! Asked him if it looked like spaghetti, he said he didn't think so. But.....
Pretty sure I'm not up to the challenge of using that!

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Pretty sure that Cordite isn't available anymore, and I certainly don't have the equipment to load it and I doubt if anybody in the US has the equipment.

The following video is pretty cool, the spaghetti, oops I mean the Cordite is "dropped" in the case at about 1:50.

15meter

11-10-2021, 07:52 PM

I load for the 416 Rigby, the 470, 450, 450/400, 400/350 Nitro Express's, the Purdey 450/360 plus a couple more silly cartridges.

I cast for and shoot reduced loads in all of them. Dinger ringer loads.

As in take an old oxygen cylinder and cut it in half or thirds, hang the pieces up and play some music. They ring like the bells of Notre Dame.

All will fit in my 1974 Rockchucker. The 470 is a bit of a challenge(well they all are a bit of a challenge on the Rockchucker, the 470 just a bit more).

The 470 works better on the Lyman T-Mag, just depends if

cwtebay

11-10-2021, 07:53 PM

Pretty sure that Cordite isn't available anymore, and I certainly don't have the equipment to load it and I doubt if anybody in the US has the equipment.

The following video is pretty cool, the spaghetti, oops I mean the Cordite is "dropped" in the case at about 1:50.I purchased a TON of old 303 Brit mil surp at one point and thought I would salvage the brass and bullets. After I realized the potential for a truly memorable experience with aged cordite I elected to get some other use from them. It was horrible to get pulled out. I went on a deep dive into how they were loaded - not for the feint of heart!!
Oh, and wow! Did they ever make a pretty flame in the burn barrel!

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15meter

11-10-2021, 09:49 PM

I load for the 416 Rigby, the 470, 450, 450/400, 400/350 Nitro Express's, the 450/360 Purdey plus a couple more silly cartridges.

I cast for and shoot reduced loads in all of them. Dinger ringer loads.

As in take an old oxygen cylinder and cut it in half or thirds, hang the pieces up and play some music. They ring like the bells of Notre Dame.

All will fit in my 1974 Rockchucker. The 470 is a bit of a challenge(well they all are a bit of a challenge on the Rockchucker, the 470 just a bit more).

The 470 works better on the Lyman T-Mag, just depends if

Now for the rest of the story, apparently my "token" expired while I was typing the above and the forum kicked me off.

Right when my wife decided it was time to go out for dinner.

I smell a conspiracy. But the prime rib sandwich was good, so I'll turn a blind eye. For now.

So continuing the narrative:

...if I am not too lazy to mount the T-Mag in place of the Rockchucker.

Pistol weight boolits will in most cases regulate at lower speeds. There are formulas out there to load these old boomers with 5744 and Reloder 15. The 5744 is a generic formula using a percentage of the weight of 5744 that fills the case to the base of the boolit. Much more pleasant to shoot.

The Reloder 15 is a specific Cordite for Reloder 15 conversion rate. Most of the old English doubles will be marked on the rifle the load that the rifle was regulated with. X amount of cordite for x% of Reloder. These will be pretty close to the original loads.

Buddy and I will take 150 rounds of my elephant caliber mouse fart loads out and ring bells and wonder why that's all we brought with us.

We shoot 2-4 rounds each REAL elephant loads and it's Miller Time.

Look for similar old 'merican calibers, 45-120 is sort of in the same ballpark as a 450 Nitro Express, there are cast loads out there for those that can be a start point.

Load and shoot them, it's the most fun you can have with you clothes on.

Unless you've got good ice and good wind.

15meter

11-10-2021, 09:59 PM

15meter

11-11-2021, 09:16 AM

And anneal the brass before starting. Older brass with unknown number of firings, it's time to anneal.

At the cost and difficulty of finding some of the old brass it hurts to lose just 1 piece to a split neck.

Ken Waters had several articles on loading some of these old cartridges.

I know an early Accurate manual had a chapter on loading obsolete American calibers.

Perhaps edition #1. Full sized, red cover manual. Also Phil Sharpes' book from the '40's has some usable data.

I've been loading some of these for several years now, always on the lookout for load data.

toot

11-11-2021, 09:33 AM

I guess that FAT IS WHERE IT IS AT!! bigger is better, for sure.!!!!

Good Cheer

11-11-2021, 10:15 AM

The only big bore I have is a 69 cal rifled muzzle loader. Don't need brass or dies or a huge press so it should be cheap to shoot but I haven't finished it yet.

There's much to be said for caseless ammo.

Petander

11-11-2021, 10:50 AM

I got my 470 NE plinker data from Vihtavuori.

I called them and told what bullets I have, they called me back the following day with data. You can not safely go below certain fill percentage on these.

This here I just confirmed today, regulates @ 50 meters. Mihec 405 grains, Vihtavuori N135, velocity 2000 fps. Fun to shoot claybirds on a 25-35 meter berm ,fast. Fun to shoot pretty much anything to be honest.

https://i.postimg.cc/KjkY2BBg/IMG-20211111-WA0004.jpg

sharps4590

11-12-2021, 07:09 AM

Doubles are just fun, period. I sold the 500 BPE mentioned earlier but it's been replaced by a Vierordt SXS in 8 X 65R Brenneke and a Merkel O/U in 8 X 60R Magnum. I still have my old Goldmann from the 1870's in 43 Mauser. It will be the starter for opening day again, this coming Saturday. After that I'll start sending in the relievers..

toot

11-12-2021, 10:01 AM

WOW! that looks like a family port rate of shell's! I like it!

Rapier

11-12-2021, 11:41 AM

Reminds me of my 458 Lott, I built on an MRC action, it seemed like a good idea at the time. My rhino gun, since I built it, I haven't seen a rhino out on the beach, works pretty good.

Every once in a while I have someone ask me to build one for them. I just hand them the rifle and a cartridge and invite them to go out back and shoot it, end of that curiosity.

414gates

11-12-2021, 12:48 PM

Is it feasible to load these down for a more pleasant shooting experience?

You can reduce the load, but be mindful of case fill. I don't like the powder to slosh around in a big bore case, so I keep it down with dacron. My cast loads for 500 Jeffery use 1 grain of dacron.

Is it possible to use a normal reloading press?

The press needs to accomodate the die body. Whatever that is for the particular die. Different manufacturers use different die body sizes.

There are three sizes - normal dies are 7/8"-14 threads, next size up is 1 1/4"-12 which Lee calls large body dies, and then you get the 1 1/2" x 12 dies for 50BMG case diameters. If you want one press to load everything, get either the RCBS or Hornady 50 BMG press.

does anyone cast for these?

The biggest I cast for is 500 Jeffery. I cast for 416 Ruger and 375 H&H as well. You can have custom moulds made if not commercially available. I recommend push through sizers, from Lee or NOE.

http://ysterhout.net/docs/big-bore-casting/index.html

Petander

11-12-2021, 02:46 PM

470 NE with a short 400 grain bullet and Redding Big Boss:

https://i.postimg.cc/GhD65KST/IMG-20211112-WA0001.jpg

Standard Rock Chucker with the same bullet / cartridge.

https://i.postimg.cc/pLY42Tv2/IMG-20211112-WA0000.jpg

I prefer Redding here, for obvious reasons.

Tonto

11-13-2021, 06:02 PM

And it probably would have helped it I had actually put the link to the video in the post. Duh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXNXUpOozDg
Very cool video. Cordite is strange stuff.

Rich/WIS

11-14-2021, 12:54 PM

Hornady loads some of the British big bores, although how available ammo or brass is I don't know. They list 450/400 NE, 416 Rigby, 500/416 NE, 404 Jeffrey, 450 Rigby, 450 NE, 470 NE and 500 NE. Not sure if the brass could be reformed for other calibers or not. at one time there was apublication soley for the old British calibers, but don't recall it's name. Google might help.

Petander

11-14-2021, 02:41 PM

Norma loads 470 NE as well.

Finland price US$ 290/ ten rounds. Ok?

https://i.postimg.cc/cHRhjdP2/IMG-20211114-WA0005.jpg

15meter

11-14-2021, 03:53 PM

Here they are about half that. When they are in stock. Makes a set of dies and a boolit mold kinda cheeep.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001980291

And even with the cheap domestic ammo it doesn't take long to justify the mold and dies.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001965694?pid=972726

cwtebay

11-14-2021, 04:11 PM

It actually isn't that difficult to find ammunition for these as I've found. Norma, Hornady, Kynoch all have it - for a price. But he does have brass and bullets and loaded ammunition and dies as I mentioned.

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lar45

11-14-2021, 10:29 PM

I use RL15 for my 470NE with 5gn of dacron and a 500gn cast bullet. I load to 2150 with good results. I've also loaded the Lee 400 and 325 just for fun...
I load on a Lee classic cast press.

eastbank

11-15-2021, 09:06 AM

my big bores are the american 45-70,s, 400 gr bullets at over 2100 fps in my rugers and 500 gr bullets at over 1800 fps.

15meter

11-15-2021, 10:22 AM

my big bores are the american 45-70,s, 400 gr bullets at over 2100 fps in my rugers and 500 gr bullets at over 1800 fps.

I shot a similar load out of a Ruger #3.

Once.

It was a buddy's rifle and load. He has since passed away, I was storing some of his reloading stuff when he died. His girlfriend told me to keep it.

I've still got a partial box of the 45-70's in the shed. Should disassemble them.

I'll shoot them right about the time we get porcine aviators.

Petander

11-15-2021, 03:18 PM

I use RL15 for my 470NE with 5gn of dacron and a 500gn cast bullet. I load to 2150 with good results. I've also loaded the Lee 400 and 325 just for fun...
I load on a Lee classic cast press.

My (factory regulated) J-load is a 500 grain Woodleigh @ 2150 fps. N160.

But I like these 400's @ 2000 fps / N135 for plink & practise for now. That fast & accurate second shot you know... these 400's regulate up to 60 meters ,crossing there.

Bench is tough with full house 500's... I've been on glucosamine for some years now. Shoulder pain stays away almost miraculously,... knock...

Nowadays, I'm cheating with the excellent PAST recoil shield. Should have gotten one 30 years ago.

https://i.postimg.cc/YqQfP5qK/IMG-20211112-WA0005.jpg

https://www.eranetti.fi/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/80-028.jpg

BrassMagnet

11-22-2021, 04:22 PM

I have 500 NE 3" brass somewhere. No gun.

rrob692326

12-18-2021, 04:33 AM

I reload monster sized, .585 Hubel Express cartridges on my RCBS Rockchucker. You have to remove the top bushing, and get a proper sized one, which in my case uses the 1-1/2" dies. I use a standard shellholder and it sizes and loads the big 3 inch cases with no problems. I load 780 grain and 1150 grain hard cast powder coated bullets with no problem.
P.S. the big 1150 grain bullet is 1-1/2" long by itself, yet the press still gets the job done! Top loads make even the vaunted .577 T Rex cartridge sit up and take notice, as I have a doozy load that generates 7 and 1/2 foot tons, (yes, that's right that's 15,000 ft lbs) of muzzle energy load, that gently nudges my shoulder with 248 ft pounds of recoil to let you know you just fired something different.

15meter

10-04-2022, 04:30 AM

725

10-04-2022, 08:40 AM

In re; downloading the big stuff, I have loaded for a .458 Lott to the levels of "hot" trap door level 400 grain boolits. What a joy to shoot. Retina detaching level loads no longer hold much entertainment for me. YMMV

Greg Mercurio

10-04-2022, 12:51 PM

I've done a lot of large caliber reloading, 400 Nitro Express, .416 Rigby and .458 WM. I have shot all 3 with full power loads, and don't particularly enjoy the recoil. All 3 of those calibers are in Ruger No. 1's, and all 3 are relatively light for caliber. RCBS Rock Chucker fits them all.

Loading way down with Trail Boss and cast boolits makes it a lot of fun, without the pain. Arthritic right shoulder determines current recoil tolerance. :-)