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View Full Version : third deer with a 327 federal, first with a solid bullet



megasupermagnum
11-09-2021, 06:05 AM
I went out for the MN firearms deer, and intended on shooting almost anything, and I intended to use my 54 caliber muzzleloader. There isn't much to the story of this buck. I was sitting in a stand, and expecting a deer to come from either the left, or right of me, and also had a trail close behind me. As luck would have it, a young 5 point buck came dead ahead of me. This is not ideal because it is a large hill, the deer look straight down at you as they walk down. I had my rifle to my far right, and any movement would have been risky. There were no trees to block his sight. I didn't have to think too hard as I had my GP100 sitting on a shelf, with my hand on it. All I did was wait for the buck to come down the hill, lifted my hand, and I had a perfectly clear shot at about 30 yards, favoring heavily towards me. I shot him just in front of the left front shoulder. At the shot, he tried to jump, but his front legs were not strong enough, and he ended up doing an endover cartwheel. He didn't slow too much, and ran straight at me. He turned only 15 yards from me, and after jumping a log, I took a second shot broadside. I waited 10 minutes, saw a text that my uncle had a very large buck down, and I went to go help him.

About 45 minutes to an hour later we came back for my buck. I went to where I took the second shot, looked where he went, and he was right there. From the first shot, he might have made it 40-50 yards total. I noticed right away that there was an exit wound, which I was not shocked to see, but being a frontal shot, I thought I would have caught the bullet. I did not look that hard, but did not see an entrance hole for the second shot, so assumed a miss.

I'd like to jump back here, and talk about the load I was using. In the past I used a hollow point 143 grain bullet cast of 20:1 alloy. The only reason I didn't use it this time is because I did not have any cast, and I could not for the life of me find my 30 caliber gas checks. I ended up finding them 3 days later in a spot I checked. Anyway, I went to my target bullet, a 137 gr SWC, and decided to try some cast of 20:1 just to see how they shoot. They dropped at 139 grains. I loaded some up with H110, and to my surprise 12 gr H110 shot phenomenally well. Not a trace of fouling either. Since I had no intention of using the handgun, I decided I'd skip the hollow point, and just use it. I figured the velocity must be in the 1250 fps ballpark, and all evidence I saw was that this bullet would not expand at that speed.

Jumping back to the results on the deer, I am more than pleased. After skinning it, I found the first bullet had entered exactly where I wanted, passed through at least 1 lung, unsure of the heart, went though the stomach and likely other guts, and exited just in front of the rear offside back leg. It turns out the second shot did connect, and it had hit exactly where I wanted too. It entered the left shoulder centered on the leg bone, shattered the bone, went through both lungs, unsure of the heart (one of the two split it open), then exited just ahead of the front leg on the other side. Between those two shots, that front left leg was beat up bad, I'm amazed that deer could run. It was practically detached. There was a lot of blood in there too, so I must have got some kind of artery.

Here is a picture of the carcass on the entrance side. The holes through the ribs aren't all that impressive, maybe 3/8" in size.

https://i.ibb.co/YWKm3dB/IMG-20211106-141926405.jpg (https://ibb.co/YWKm3dB)

The real impressive things were in the meat and organs. I did not take any pictures of the lungs as I was in a hurry to finish and get back to the stand. It left at least 1/2" holes through the lungs, and whichever one hit the heart ended up splitting it open, along with the hole it made.

This first picture is the front left shoulder where the first bullet entered. It left a decent hole through the meat, not quite 1/2", call it 44 or 45 caliber size.

https://i.ibb.co/k64gFdb/IMG-20211109-014041645.jpg (https://ibb.co/k64gFdb)

The second and third picture is where the second bullet entered into the shoulder bone. It shattered the bone, left a massive hole, and I even found a couple tiny bullet fragments in the bone.

https://i.ibb.co/0Dpb5Pz/IMG-20211109-014722314.jpg (https://ibb.co/0Dpb5Pz)

https://i.ibb.co/9nH8PpD/IMG-20211109-014732466.jpg (https://ibb.co/9nH8PpD)


This final picture blew me away. This is part of the offside rear leg, apparently the first bullet did get into the first bit of meat for that leg. This is the exit hole, and wow, it must be coming up on 1" in diameter. If ever there was evidence that a 20:1 alloy bullet can expand at 1200 fps impact, this is it. Now I want to shoot one of these into gel and catch one to see.

https://i.ibb.co/ZSC92BL/IMG-20211109-023822862.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZSC92BL)

Color me impressed. They sure as heck don't lack penetration, and while maybe a hollow point would have done a little more to the organs, this is certainly deer lethal.

dverna
11-09-2021, 06:52 AM
That is impressive performance and good shooting on you part

Orchard6
11-09-2021, 08:16 AM
Impressive results! Congrats!

Loudenboomer
11-09-2021, 08:22 AM
Hand gun deer are fun! Good on you!
Couldn't help but think of how close your load is to a 32-20 rifle ballistics. Killed deer just fine 150 years ago.

Texas by God
11-09-2021, 08:23 AM
Way to go. Good placement trumps raw power (again)! A .454 Casull wouldn't have killed that deer any dead-er.

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Thumbcocker
11-09-2021, 09:23 AM
Thank you for the write up and excellent pictures.

Markopolo
11-09-2021, 10:25 AM
way to go MSM!!!!!

Cosmic_Charlie
11-09-2021, 10:52 AM
I'm gonna tote my SBH along today and tomorrow. Big weather system coming and that often makes the deer frisky. Nice job there! And we can endlessly debate if a .357 is enough for deer.......

koger
11-09-2021, 11:52 AM
I want to thank you for sharing the hunt story and the results of the bullets destruction. Great detailed info as well on the load data. This is one of the great things about the guys on this forum, and the work we all do in load development and field work as well. i have a buddy who is on the fence about getting him a .327, this will probably seal the deal.

444ttd
11-09-2021, 12:33 PM
nice deer and great story!!!!!!

versa-06
11-09-2021, 01:50 PM
Great Post! Thanks for sharing.

Camba
11-09-2021, 07:51 PM
Good shooting!
Congrats!


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megasupermagnum
11-09-2021, 07:57 PM
I want to thank you for sharing the hunt story and the results of the bullets destruction. Great detailed info as well on the load data. This is one of the great things about the guys on this forum, and the work we all do in load development and field work as well. i have a buddy who is on the fence about getting him a .327, this will probably seal the deal.

I'm not going to say the 327 federal is some kind of a powerhouse. It is not. It is perfectly suited for deer hunting though. Even if he doesn't load or cast, the Federal AE 100gr jacketed soft point at 1600 fps would be a great choice for deer. If he does load, I'd definitely look into cast. While I'm sure a 100gr XTP or Gold dot would work, they get whizzing fast out of these guns, and I'm not sure they have the integrity, being they are 32 H&R designs. There is a new Swift A-frame 100gr that would work well, but they are insanely expensive. As far as accuracy goes, my best results have been with heavier cast bullets, 130 to 150 grains. Cast nice and soft, they sure seem to do the trick.

skeettx
11-09-2021, 09:22 PM
Well done, boom, flop, found
Mike

358429
11-09-2021, 09:53 PM
I had no idea 327 had this potential! Thank you for sharing!

TCLouis
11-10-2021, 01:11 AM
Congrats, deer down and ready for the pantry.

Kept within their limitations it seems a lot of cartridges are easily deer worthy.

cwlongshot
11-10-2021, 07:18 AM
Congrats great post. Thank you!!

CW

Anschutz
11-10-2021, 12:16 PM
I've never thought of a 327 Fed as a deer hunting round but it seems that it worked great and you've done your homework. A hole through the lungs and heart of any size with multiple spots to leak from will almost always result in a recovery.

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Green Frog
11-10-2021, 12:26 PM
I’ve thought from its release that the 327 FM should make a good hunting round for medium to smaller big (deer class) game. You have apparently reinforced that belief. Thanks for sharing, especially in such detail.

Regards,
Froggie

dverna
11-10-2021, 12:57 PM
Congrats, deer down and ready for the pantry.

Kept within their limitations it seems a lot of cartridges are easily deer worthy.

Very true. I am especially guilty of being "over gunned" using the .308.

There are a handful of people who poach deer in my area and the .22 gets the job done for most of them. I was at a friends house a couple of weeks ago and his nephew showed up for a drink before he going out to get a deer. He brought his "big gun"...a .22 Mag. Not condoning either the act of poaching, or having a drink before using a gun but that is the reality in many rural areas.

trapper9260
11-11-2021, 09:14 AM
Thank you for all your OP is , this is the info I been wondering about for this cartridge, I know it can do the job on what you can use it on but do not know about the end use and the size boolit to use and the alloy to use. You use the 32-20 data for your heavy boolits for data?

megasupermagnum
11-11-2021, 02:26 PM
Thank you for all your OP is , this is the info I been wondering about for this cartridge, I know it can do the job on what you can use it on but do not know about the end use and the size boolit to use and the alloy to use. You use the 32-20 data for your heavy boolits for data?

If you search, you might be able to find the first deer I shot with a 143gr HP I think 3 years ago. There wasn't much to see, as he stood up as I was coming in for lunch about 10 yards from me. I drew and fired, ended up hitting the spine and he dropped on the spot. Bullet passed through. Another good one was I think Sixguns took a nice pronghorn with the 135gr hp "sledgehammer", and I think he has good pictures of the lungs and such.

For data, I originally started off going from the 140gr (135gr HP) MP "sledgehammer" data other guys had figured out. I now more or less do all my own load workups. I have a thread called something like "327 federal heavy bullets", where I test a number of bullets and powders in the 130 to 167 grain range. I think I might even have some 120 gr data in there. Most powders I can recall are Bluedot, AA#9, H110, and later on 300-MP. I find best accuracy with Bluedot and H110 for the most part.

trapper9260
11-12-2021, 06:05 AM
Ok thank you for letting me know . It helps.

BunkTheory
11-13-2021, 02:29 AM
not to be a spoil sport, but how would you compare this to a 158 grain swc over a full alliant load of 2400?

megasupermagnum
11-13-2021, 03:15 AM
not to be a spoil sport, but how would you compare this to a 158 grain swc over a full alliant load of 2400?

I'm going to assume you are talking about a 357 magnum. I have identical 5" GP100's, one in 327 federal, and one in 357 magnum. The 327 federal with 148 gr bullets can get up to about 1300 fps max with H110. The 357 magnum with 158 gr, I've clocked bullets up to 1450 fps. I have never loaded tried Alliants max of 2400 with a 158gr. They list 1265 fps with a 10" barrel, but I have a hard time believing they are that slow. Let say with a 158gr SWC in 357 magnum and 2400, it's running 1200-1250 fps, same as the 327 federal. If that is the case, I really doubt you will notice any differences between the two cartridges at all. I've compared deer side by side shot with hard cast 357 magnum (keith bullet), and hard cast 44 magnum (cast core), and I couldn't tell any difference at all. Both made about 44 caliber holes all the way through.

If you are willing to make ammo to optimize the gun, then that's a whole other ball game. A 180gr HP in a 357 magnum is a nasty thing, and if you lean on it a little up to that European CIP pressure, I'd bet you could tell the difference between a 140gr HP at 1250 fps in a 327 federal, to a 180gr HP at 1350 fps in the 357 magnum. I'm really surprised this plain base load shoots as good as it does. I still recommend a gas check bullet for both calibers, if you are trying to get softer alloys to shoot good at high pressures.

nagantguy
11-13-2021, 02:30 PM
Very true. I am especially guilty of being "over gunned" using the .308.

There are a handful of people who poach deer in my area and the .22 gets the job done for most of them. I was at a friends house a couple of weeks ago and his nephew showed up for a drink before he going out to get a deer. He brought his "big gun"...a .22 Mag. Not condoning either the act of poaching, or having a drink before using a gun but that is the reality in many rural areas.

We are in the same “rural area” for sure- deer beer and 22 mags. And in Kalkaska the opener for rifle season falls anywhere between the 10-14 of November while the rest of us have to wait for Nov 15th.
To the OP very nice write up- I e been on the fence about the little .327 as well, but being that we are so .357 and 44 heavy it’s just not in the cards now.
The final move down south may have us pairing down the arsenal and picking up a few new tools to play and hunt with.

gunseller
11-17-2021, 11:06 AM
All I can say is at first my thoughts were the 327 is a little small. Guess not. A 30 carbine works at 100 yards so why wouldn't a 327 work closer. I see it does. It would not be legal here in Iowa. Keep shooting and showing the results. I like 2400 over H110. To me it is more accurate.
Steve

thadfz
11-17-2021, 01:39 PM
I’ve wanted a 327mag since ruger announced them a bunch of years ago. Wasn’t in the cards then, and now I don’t know how I’d use it in the field. [emoji2369] glad you’re enjoying yours[emoji106]


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Jim22
11-17-2021, 01:47 PM
Please tell us about the muzzle blast. Is it similar to a .357 Magnum in a similar length barrel? Because of my shooting I have lost a significant part of my hearing. Tinnitus. I would not like to lose more.

Jim

megasupermagnum
11-17-2021, 02:01 PM
Please tell us about the muzzle blast. Is it similar to a .357 Magnum in a similar length barrel? Because of my shooting I have lost a significant part of my hearing. Tinnitus. I would not like to lose more.

Jim

Yes, it's just like a 357 magnum. The only way to stop hearing loss is to use hearing protection. If you find any that isn't garbage, let me know. This year I tried out some hearing aids someone recommended, and during early goose season It felt like the world was spinning. No sense of direction at all. Best thing I've found for deer hunting is to simply have those cheap banded ear plugs around your neck. If you have time, put them in.

Lonegun1894
11-18-2021, 02:14 AM
Thank you for the write-up. You definitely have my attention.

Prodigal Son
11-20-2021, 01:23 PM
That's a great write up, better reading on here than anywhere else in the world. At least it's a subject I'm interested in. Great shooting and great performance of the shooter and the boolits!

LeadHead72
11-24-2021, 03:12 PM
If .357 weren't the minimum legal bullet diameter for deer in our state I would have to load some of those for my .327 Blackhawk.