volumetric dippers

[BunkTheory]

Yes volume gives same volume, different weight based upon moisture quantity and batch of powder..

But is it simply best to say "ok i need 5.2 grains of powder, and the .x dipper gives me 5.1, so im good to go.."

or to still weigh them out individually and adjust to ideal weight of charge?

[Winger Ed.]

Sure, a powder scale is the most accurate.
However; If you stay below max. charges, the difference between 5.1 and 5.2 is right at 2% if is my math is correct.

If you're not shooting for the Bianchi Cup------That's no big deal.

[nhyrum]

Volumetric is good ENOUGH, in most cases. Just about every powder throw mounted to a press is volumetric. Settling, changes in "head pressure" eg not using a baffle, the pressure forcing the prefe powder into the cavity will change the mass thrown. The same can be said for dippers. If the pressure used to scoop the power is different, if there is any packing occurring, settling, etc the mass of powder thrown will change. That's mostly mitigated via doing your best to be consistent in how you scoop. Will it matter? Will a half of a tenth cause problems? Probably not. Hence being good enough

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[Renofish]

Dippers are fine for its specifications to powders prescribed. They are not adjustable in and by itself. That being said, with a powder scale you can have exact weights as all reloading manuals have prescribed listed powders. With a good powder measure, you do not need to measure every charge thrown. Let's say, you are loading 50 count 9mm cartridges.
You would set your powder measure to the desired setting, by cross checking it with your scale. And do the same on the 50th powder thrown to verify nothing has not changed from the first check. Then seat your bullets.

Now!
With the progressive loaders, you load faster, but will not have 100 percent verification that all your loads are identical. Which in itself could lead to disaster.
I'm not here to argue that with members about one method or another.
As safe loading techniques should be your VERY first consideration. If you wish to measure each and every load individually that would be your safest choice. Weighing first and last charge from good powder measure should be safe. Now try a powder dipper and then weigh each one and you will discover it is actually not very reliable for repeatability.
It takes an attention to technique to develop a decent outcome for a dipper consistent charge. That being said you should note that dippers charge data usually are on a conservative side of charge and does not allow one to adjust your loads to all shooting needs.

If one is serious about hand loading, get at least a powder scale. This is your life line and peace of mind in knowing your charge weights are right. Then if you wish to be more productive get a good powder measure. And once you have a very good understanding of how each tool functions and then should you want a faster reloading performance, then after doing due diligence a progressive loading press system could be introduced.

I didn't mean for this to be long winded, but attention to detail and understanding your tools and their limits will only allow you to made for safe and sound loading techniques.

Richard

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[ohen cepel]

With the dippers you can be very consistent if your technique is good. I will still check with a scale if doing hot or precision type loads, but if it is plinking rounds I'm loading up after I check the first few I roll on.

Best to lower it into the powder and let it flow in. Then, I wipe the top off level with a business card. Pretty quick and can be consistent if you are.

[dverna]

Weighing every charge is a waste of time.

Dippers work but why? A decent powder measure will last a lifetime and is not expensive.

Btw, do a little test. Pull the bullets from 10 factory rounds and check the powder charges.

[Omega]

Since the early 80s I have used volume for pistol, and weigh my hunting rounds and rifle plinking rounds, the equipment has changed here and there but it still boils down to that.

[Bmi48219]

I’m pretty sure Winchester, Federal, Fiocchi etc all use automated powder measures. Can’t imagine the equipment they have is any more accurate than a properly used Lyman 55 or a Lee dipper.

[nhyrum]

Also, part of the way most people load rifle is by finding a velocity/point of impact plateau and pick the middle of that range. One of the reasons for that, whether or not people know it, is so that minor variations in charge don't adversely affect the point of impact. For example, I'm my 300 rum, 94.7,95.0, and 95.3 are nearly indistinguishable in terms of group size and shape, as well as velocity numbers such as extreme spread and standard deviation. Yet I still use the a&d balance with the auto throw gizmo, throwing 95.00, with the scale having a .02 resolution(.012 of I use grams) and throw out anything that's not 95.00. why? I don't know, OCD I guess. On paper out would behave exactly the same, but for the sake of consistency, and eliminating all variables, most people do the same.

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[Nazgul]

Had a discussion bordering on an argument with a fellow 300 yard bench rest shooter. Not a competitor but we are both meticulous in reloading. He said every load needed to be weighed, I maintained volume (dippers) were just as accurate. We had a 50 round shoot out and I won handily.

The point is, unless you are using 30 lb benchrest rifles with 24 X scopes, you are not going to tell much difference. As long as your dipping technique is consistent.

Don

[JSnover]

Dippers are fine, setup time is just the few seconds it takes to pick the right one.
As for thrown vs. weighed, Hatcher compered targets after shooting groups from both methods and found no meaningful difference.

[Good Cheer]

:drinks:

http://i.imgur.com/isiMrXT.jpg (https://imgur.com/isiMrXT)

[BunkTheory]

its just that, with SOME of the powders i have tried with the lee dipper kit, yellow, there can be some interesting deviation from the measured with the little hornady electric scale versus what the dipper charge sheet says.

IE the charge sheet slider thing says ".x cc will give 5.6 grains of green dot" actual weighing of dipped chargers can easily only net 5.0 Most of the dippers seem to throw less then what the paper says it should be throwing.

i have no problem grabbing a dipper that falls between min and max for what i want to do, but it would be nice to NOT have to trickle in powder to make weight.

[nhyrum]

its just that, with SOME of the powders i have tried with the lee dipper kit, yellow, there can be some interesting deviation from the measured with the little hornady electric scale versus what the dipper charge sheet says.

IE the charge sheet slider thing says ".x cc will give 5.6 grains of green dot" actual weighing of dipped chargers can easily only net 5.0 Most of the dippers seem to throw less then what the paper says it should be throwing.

i have no problem grabbing a dipper that falls between min and max for what i want to do, but it would be nice to NOT have to trickle in powder to make weight.Oh, yeah, I never found the charts that say x volume will throw y grains of powder z. Was a real pain setting up my Pacific 12 gauge reloader. None of the bushings threw what that claimed, so if I wanted to try a new powder, I had to buy 3 bushings. The one they claimed, and the bookends to it.

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[BunkTheory]

its just that it can get confusing,,, its one thing to say, "sure this dipper is only 1.5 grains off from the chart, that means im still above the minimum needed load of 10 grains"


But simply accepting that as "fine and dandy" is one thing, but when SOME powders have a measely min of 21.5 grains and a max of 23.5 , you start to consider things in a different manner.

[nhyrum]

That's really the one problem. They're not "adjustable" so if you don't have a dipper that fits what you need, you're sol. It's part of the reason, when I was using the Lee press mounted powder measures, that I used the auto drum vs auto disk.

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[Mk42gunner]

I have both a Lyman #55 and an RCBS Uniflow, and use them. They can be a bit fiddly to set to the exact charge I want, so sometimes it is easier to use powder dippers for short runs.

The yellow Lee set doesn't always have the exact charge I want, so I end up making my own dippers from an old case and a soldered on wire handle.

I make them long initially, then trim with a case trimmer to get to the exact powder charge I want. A dowel or short whittled stick makes a good place to label the new dipper.

Robert

[Tim357]

I’m pretty sure Winchester, Federal, Fiocchi etc all use automated powder measures. Can’t imagine the equipment they have is any more accurate than a properly used Lyman 55 or a Lee dipper.
What he said. ^^^^^^^
The factories all use volumetric powder dispensing equipment.

[OBXPilgrim]

I've used powder dippers that were slightly under weight, and then used a trickler for accurate weights of small quantity loads. Didn't want to take the time to set up a measure.

[kevin c]

What he said. ^^^^^^^
The factories all use volumetric powder dispensing equipment.
I spoke to the owner of one commercial ammo company. I don’t know if all the high volume producers do it his way, but his machines use custom made plates to charge the cases. The powder covers the top of the plate, falling into something like a hundred charge holes. Another plate sweeps across the top removing the excess, then the plate goes over the cases and drops the charges into a hundred primed cases.

There’s an old NRA publication on ammunition manufacturing that describes the same for .22 LR rounds.

So, volumetric all the way for commercial production.

[jetinteriorguy]

That's really the one problem. They're not "adjustable" so if you don't have a dipper that fits what you need, you're sol. It's part of the reason, when I was using the Lee press mounted powder measures, that I used the auto drum vs auto disk.

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You can adjust the dippers. Just pick one that throws a little heavy, then cut tight fitting discs from thin cardboard and keep adding them to the bottom of the dipper until the proper weight is achieved.

[nhyrum]

You can adjust the dippers. Just pick one that throws a little heavy, then cut tight fitting discs from thin cardboard and keep adding them to the bottom of the dipper until the proper weight is achieved.Sure, there's methods of MAKING them adjustable. But they're not adjustable in the way an rcbs uniflow is.

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[alamogunr]

I've used powder dippers that were slightly under weight, and then used a trickler for accurate weights of small quantity loads. Didn't want to take the time to set up a measure.

I did just this very thing last week when loading some .44 Special rounds with a variety of powders. Would have taken too much time to set a measure for each powder type.