Thought on Why WW's

[RogerDat]

At one time Wheel Weights were everywhere, by the ton and really cheap to free. It would make sense that they would be the "goto" source for casting alloy. Now days the supply of COWW's has gotten pretty thin and not all that cheap. This got me thinking.... (wife says that is a dangerous thing but what does she know? She married me and I'm the one that married "up" so who is the thinker and who ain't is up for debate in my mind)

We always talk about WW's as a source for casters, does this mislead or do a disservice to new casters? For many we are all but sending them on a snipe hunt. As well as setting them up to find scrap that is difficult to cast with or adjust into a good casting alloy.

Might their intro to casting be better served by finding out what they want to cast and suggesting what to purchase from Rotometals or other foundries? Or what alloy to post as WTB in the S&S forum? For approx. $40 a SFRB of decent casting alloy should be obtainable from other members in S&S or the new member can go hunting WW's and scrap, hope for the best.

At the same time I think encouraging people to find the sources for lead or pewter in their area is a good thing. Can save them money and the treasure hunt is rewarding in its own right. At least for me. But starting out? I had to pass a crash course in alloys (that focused on COWW's) and then come here early and often to figure out what I found. Then try to cast first bullets using a pretty dubious alloy.

I'm actually pretty decent at scrounging lead now but I as do many others all but ignore WW's as a source. They are the cheapest source but they also are difficult to find and a bit of hassle to process. I would add that I cringe when I read of a new caster using their commercial casting pot to melt WW's due to all the crud and contamination. Not a problem if they buy some foundry lead to start. Clean ingots.

Our recipes are based on what the previous times provided for source material, wheel weights. Is that the right recipe given current sources? At least for folks just getting started?

[ABJ]

I agree 100%. The scrap yards in north GA still have scrap sheet lead (mostly pure lead) that can be found and not that expensive. Use this to blend down to the alloy you want or need when using type metals. Also, encourage the use of the alloy calculator. As a general rule of thumb, COWW used to be .5/3.5 and was an okay general purpose alloy. By adding tin and and a tad more antimony it was an even better alloy but still softer than 2/6(hardball). Even range lead is getting harder to get a hold of now and the newer indoor catch systems render it useless to us casters because the jackets are not broken. I posted three recipe's today on another thread how to blend down type metal.
I put extra care into my alloy because I am a Bullseye shooter and my accuracy needs are a little higher than the average person needs or for that matter even wants. Most of my casting friends just want to throw in some WW-cast-lube-load and shoot. I try to give a recipe with an easy to obtain type metal and pure to arrive at a suitable alloy for there needs. I am of the opinion that either side of 2% tin and either side of 4% antimony will serve the average person's needs just fine as long as they are not pushing the envelope on speed and pressure. Getting close to these numbers is close enough.
Tony
Edit; I forgot to mention the alloy calculator is free and available on this site. Boy does it make life simpler when playing with alloy construction.

[Rickf1985]

I will wholeheartedly agree with Roger Dat on this, especially after my last foray into WW scrounging. I did end up with 48 lbs. of WW for free but you have to consider what I went through to get them. If you are not familiar with the zinc and steel weights then it is best left alone. ALSO, In my quick testing with cutters on the smaller ones that don't thud or ring on a vice when you hit with them I have found that there are many different hardness's. Some are so soft the cutters go right through and others they dent pretty good but do not cut at all. Compared to zinc that does nothing but scratch. And aluminum is sort of by feel. I don't worry too much about the aluminum since they will never melt in a lead pot. Oh yea, I forgot to mention the flexible semi magnetic powdered plastic coated steel ones and the other plastic covered ones that can be zinc (marked zn) or steel or ????.

[Rickf1985]

I will wholeheartedly agree with Roger Dat on this, especially after my last foray into WW scrounging. I did end up with 48 lbs. of WW for free but you have to consider what I went through to get them. If you are not familiar with the zinc and steel weights then it is best left alone. ALSO, In my quick testing with cutters on the smaller ones that don't thud or ring on a vice when you hit with them I have found that there are many different hardness's. Some are so soft the cutters go right through and others they dent pretty good but do not cut at all. Compared to zinc that does nothing but scratch. And aluminum is sort of by feel. I don't worry too much about the aluminum since they will never melt in a lead pot. Oh yea, I forgot to mention the flexible semi magnetic powdered plastic coated steel ones and the other plastic covered ones that can be zinc (marked zn) or steel or ????.

And I also plan on making ingots from the 48 lbs. of zinc weights also so not a lost trip for me.

[bangerjim]

The key word here is "CHEEEEP". Many of us here were around when Pb WW's were easy to get and many times free. Now they are too darned cheap to buy Pb and alloys, so they just keep conjuring up old "war horse" stories of the old COWW days.

The blame for new people not wanting to buy commercial Pb/alloy is partly our fault for 1) just being downright cheap. 2)bragging about all the free "scores" we used to get and rarely see today. I hate these posts that are titled "SCORE". Many of those rarities are few and far between. I enjoy finding Pb and alloys around at the scrap yards now & then, but I do not start a post bragging about it every time I find something good.

New people have a hard row to hoe with finding cost-effective Pb/alloy.........and now primers & powders! The cost of com-ammo just keeps goin' up, but so do the raw materials we need to roll & load our own cast.

New people must get familiar with the FREE alloy calculator featured on here and look for the raw component to brew up their own mix, be it COWW or Lyman #2 alloy equivalents. And not rely on posts on here asking people how to mix stuff! Figure it out on your own. I do.

I am fortunate to have been around back in the "goode olde daze" of COWW' s being everywhere and very inexpensive, but I would not think twice today about buying the components I need, either on here (excellent source) or from ROTOMTALS. And do NOT trust anyone on evilbay selling alloys, unless you personally know them. Sellers on this forum can be trusted................or they are GONE!

Old casters - count your blessings (and ingots :) ) you have COWW alloy squirreled away somewhere for mixing & casting.

New new casters - keep up the search and be willing (if needed) to shell out some $$ for alloy, if you really want to cast your own.

Good luck!

banger :guntootsmiley:

[Rickf1985]

Back then you could actually save money by casting your own bullets. I was doing the math the other day and no matter how I worked it the costs were very close to bought ammo. Primers and powder are so expensive now that they negate the advantages of making your own ammo. BUT, With that said, the advantages are that you can make whatever load you want. I like old military bolt guns and I know for a fact that my Springfield 03A3 shoots lead boolits a lot more accurately than it does FMJ's. And it does so with less powder so you have that going for you.

[dverna]

New folks will learn quickly if scrounging is worth the time and expense. Over ten years ago, I realized it was not worth doing...I worked 50+ hour weeks, made a good salary and loved shooting more than saving a few $$$ on alloy.

No one right answer for everyone

[lightman]

Good points Roger. I don't really know if we're doing them a disservice or not. I've always used wheelweights and I'm still finding them around here.

But I know there are about 15 States that have banned lead weights. The different type metals (print) are just as scarce. Isotope Cores make great bullets but are not common either.

I feel like we should still suggest that new casters should keep an eye out for these things. Maybe with a friendly word that this stuff is scarce. I don't know? I think one thing to suggest is that "networking" works. Getting others to look for you.

As far as posting about "Scores" goes, I enjoy reading about what members have found and their questions. I've posted about a few scores but I didn't do it to brag. I guess it could have been taken that way. I do it partly to show others that its still out there if you pay attention.

[Winger Ed.]

Scrounged Lead & wheel weights or buying it on the cheap is our generation.
Like us---- and four barrel carburetors, breaker points ignition, it's fading into history.

Maybe cheap Zinc wheel weights for casting is in the future for the younger folks.

[JohnH]

Scrounged Lead & wheel weights or buying it on the cheap is our generation.
Like us---- and four barrel carburetors, breaker points ignition, it's fading into history.

Maybe cheap Zinc wheel weights for casting is in the future for the younger folks.

A funny story about breaker points; Cousin was a mechanic at a motorcycle shop. Customer brought in a Benelli 50 for a tune up and the repair was given to the new guy fresh out of mechanics school. Of course the tune up list included replace points and condenser. fella wandered around the shop for a bit and the manager asked him what's up and he replied, "What's point's?"

It ain't just fading friend, it's gone at the level they don't even teach the technology anymore.

[samari46]

Even when I lived on Long Island NY, wheel weights weren't always free. But they were available at junkyards and pretty cheap. So would bring my buckets (at least 2) and look for the larger truck wheel weights. When I moved to Louisiana I brought my wheel weights with me. Down here you had to contend with the guys who bought them to make sinkers for sale. Used to pay about $25 a bucket. But did become an expert on mining the pistol berms at my gun club. Frank

[RogerDat]

One reason for the Score posts are to show pictures of what people find or relate how they came across this source and where. This is educational and I think has value. It is encouraging to people out there looking and informative as to what they might find and places to look. Not necessary to post every score. But some of that information is pretty useful.

I was at the scrap yard and scrap guy was pointing out there are a bunch of Lyman ingots in the bin that must be from a bullet caster I might want to get them. I would have had to push a bunch of linotype pigs out of the way to get the Lyman ingots. Experienced scrap guy, he knows linotype and mono type are desirable for casting but didn't realize those pigs were linotype for the simple reason they don't come into the yard often and it never crossed his mind to wonder what alloy the ingots with the hook hole on the end were. Now he knows, likewise posting pictures of the "score" here lets new casters know what some good stuff looks like. Pigs I have seen at least 3 styles in yards.

I just think strategy for folks getting started may need to change. Fellow was asking about what he could buy at rotometal that was close to WW's because from much of the information that seems like a required ingredient. What he really needed to know is what should I order from Rotometal to make bullets for this firearm. If I was getting started scrounging today I think I would want to learn all I could about premium stuff I might find in scap yard or other sources but probably focus on collecting good quality plain lead for the best price I could. then purchase the alloys to sweeten that plain lead from commercial source while looking for the opportunity to pick up some printers lead or solder or pewter by scrounging to gain more stash for less money. Without making acquiring that scrap an obstacle to casting.

It was that impression of a new caster asking "what is close to WW I can buy" that made me think, hey maybe more needs to be said about options that don't involve WW recipes. The goal is good casting alloy of sufficient hardness and sufficiently ductile to be appropriate to the bullet / cartridge being made. More than one way to achieve that which I think is worth mentioning.

Heck we have two scrap yards that were bought out by big waste management corporation and no longer sell to public. An ever more common situation. Same for tire stores, corporate owned don't sell WW's to the public, and they tend to drive the individual privately owned tire stores out of business. I'll take all the good lead I can afford from scrap yards where it is cheaper than foundry but expect if I live long enough I may well be buying some ingredients from foundries.

[Rickf1985]

Scrounged Lead & wheel weights or buying it on the cheap is our generation.
Like us---- and four barrel carburetors, breaker points ignition, it's fading into history.

Maybe cheap Zinc wheel weights for casting is in the future for the younger folks.

Or even us older folks.:bigsmyl2: And I have a whole shelf full of four barrel carbs of all varieties. And two vehicles that still run points.

[gunther]

Not to drag this thread astray, but wouldn't a sticky on bullet traps be a good approach to this problem?

[jsizemore]

I guess the biggest reason to keep WW "alive" is folks walk right by them and don't realize how useful they are. I don't know about you, but I've never been too good to bend over and pick up a "stray" WW. That's free but for a little energy. Plus if you had to pick an alloy to cover about all casting requirements, a COWW is king. Why wouldn't you keep it "alive". Uncle buddy might have a bunch to get rid of or the tire shop has a bunch stashed around back that need to go. Sometimes for free, but learning how to reduce them to a usable alloy to cast with is the start to learning how to cast better bullets. How much is that worth?

[Winger Ed.]

. How much is that worth?

At this point in history-- quite a bit.

However; as Lead wheel weights go away, a lot of sheet and roofing Lead is being phased out for plastic,
solder is mostly 95/5, scrap yards won't sell retail, Zinc fishing sinkers are coming along, etc.,,,,,,,,, ahhh,,,, not so much.

Those of us that will still be around when Lead is gone, and won't adapt to the changing times--
We will be obsoleted out like the car mechanics in the mid 70s who refused to work on electronic ignition systems.

[kevin c]

Glen Fryxell touted the versatility of an 11 to 12 BHN alloy made from COWW, and I think most of us have read and recommend to new casters his “From Ingot to Target”. That may have helped get the less experienced into thinking that’s the optimal source of casting alloy.

It’s not just wheel weights that may be a snipe hunt: I recall a new caster, not being able any to scrounge on his own, asking here about what specific type of pewter to order from Rotometals, not understanding that tin at the right percentage in his alloy was his real goal.

I agree that times change, and that means the sources of casting metal may change as well. It does seem incumbent on the more experienced here to, not necessarily change with the times, but recognize that they have, and advise the fresh faces here with an eye looking forward, not back.

[RogerDat]

“From Ingot to Target”. Still an excellent source of information on casting.

I agree with the idea that we need to make sure folks don't walk past a bonanza of WW or other good lead due to ignorance. While maybe encouraging them to realize the real goal is getting the right hardness in a lead alloy for the use intended.

Hate the thought of someone passing on 100 lbs. of soft sheet lead or cable sheathing because it isn't WW's without realizing that soft lead would allow them to buy a modest amount of premium lead to create a good alloy. Or spending all their money on soft lead and not realizing they need other alloys.

Myself I have been focused on buying premium scrap. I think long term plain lead will be least expensive option to purchase from a foundry. If I have to buy from foundry not having to purchase linotype or tin will save me more than buying plain lead. I'm still buying plain soft lead from a scrap bin when I see it for a good price.

I have found those iso containers a couple of times. Good alloy in all cases. Knew what I was seeing when it showed up in a scrap bin because of what I had read here. Nice part is it was in the "hard" lead bin with WW's which at that yard can be bought for less than the known soft lead. Snatched that up like it was a lost child.

[TyGuy]

Not to drag this thread astray, but wouldn't a sticky on bullet traps be a good approach to this problem?

This is certainly part of my solution. Besides squirreling away every lead wheel weight that comes into our shop (which is only a small percentage overall) and gathering up other sources of alloy, I have turned my attention to recycling as much of what I shoot as possible. My little home range has sand filled tires as a back stop and I get far too much enjoyment from mining it with a litter box scoop. I love when friends want to shoot at my place because I know I’ll dig up their bullets after they leave. It a beautiful cycle

[lightman]

A funny story about breaker points; Cousin was a mechanic at a motorcycle shop. Customer brought in a Benelli 50 for a tune up and the repair was given to the new guy fresh out of mechanics school. Of course the tune up list included replace points and condenser. fella wandered around the shop for a bit and the manager asked him what's up and he replied, "What's point's?"

It ain't just fading friend, it's gone at the level they don't even teach the technology anymore.

I guess I'm getting old! I still have a timing light and a dwell meter hanging on the board over my workbench. And a pair of brake spring pliers in my toolbox!

[lightman]

Still an excellent source of information on casting.

I agree with the idea that we need to make sure folks don't walk past a bonanza of WW or other good lead due to ignorance. While maybe encouraging them to realize the real goal is getting the right hardness in a lead alloy for the use intended.

Hate the thought of someone passing on 100 lbs. of soft sheet lead or cable sheathing because it isn't WW's without realizing that soft lead would allow them to buy a modest amount of premium lead to create a good alloy. Or spending all their money on soft lead and not realizing they need other alloys.

Myself I have been focused on buying premium scrap. I think long term plain lead will be least expensive option to purchase from a foundry. If I have to buy from foundry not having to purchase linotype or tin will save me more than buying plain lead. I'm still buying plain soft lead from a scrap bin when I see it for a good price.

I have found those iso containers a couple of times. Good alloy in all cases. Knew what I was seeing when it showed up in a scrap bin because of what I had read here. Nice part is it was in the "hard" lead bin with WW's which at that yard can be bought for less than the known soft lead. Snatched that up like it was a lost child.

Another thing that older casters need to push is what I call "networking". Thats getting others to look for lead for you. Friends, Family members, co-workers, ect.

Sunday afternoon a buddy dropped off a nearly full 5 gallon bucket of wheelweights. They were stored in a barn for years and were extremely dusty. They were also 100% lead weights. No steal, no Zinc, and only a few valve stems. This was from a contact that I made long ago. He also says there are more and he will bring them to town the next time he is out there. "Networking" may not produce instant results but it works.

[RogerDat]

I guess I'm getting old! I still have a timing light and a dwell meter hanging on the board over my workbench. And a pair of brake spring pliers in my toolbox! I thought about putting mine in a garage sale then realized almost nobody would know what they were. Those that did would check them out and comment on how they still had those hanging around from "back in the day". In the end I decided those two didn't take up much space. :-D

[LenH]

My youngest son is the manager of a local tire & repair shop. I was there getting my oil changed and was looking in the wheel weight bucket.
I found a pair of nippers and briefly went through the top layer of that bucket. Most were zinc, steel and the plastic weights. There were some
lead ones in there but they were few and far between. I talked with one of the shop guys and he said that most are zinc and steel.

One of these cold wet Saturdays I will take a bucket with me and sort for a bit and see how much lead I can get.

Most of the lead I get is range lead from my brothers club but he is nearly 500 miles away. but it is easy to mine when we are out there .

[bangerjim]

Another thing that older casters need to push is what I call "networking". Thats getting others to look for lead for you. Friends, Family members, co-workers, ect.

Sunday afternoon a buddy dropped off a nearly full 5 gallon bucket of wheelweights. They were stored in a barn for years and were extremely dusty. They were also 100% lead weights. No steal, no Zinc, and only a few valve stems. This was from a contact that I made long ago. He also says there are more and he will bring them to town the next time he is out there. "Networking" may not produce instant results but it works.

"NETWORKING" is the key to most things in this life! The engineering firm I own sees a lot of business just by word of mouth and networking in the industries I serve.

No man is an island! Treat others right and it will come back to you 10 fold. If I remember right, the bible talks about bread, water, "casting", and returns! :bigsmyl2:

[bowfin]

I know that almost nobody collects the lead insulator pins from the electric companies. I don't suppose a person would have much luck with the HUGE companies in some states, but the little co-op electric companies in the South and flyover country are sometimes happy for somebody to haul them off due to the fact that the lead is cast onto the steel pins and junkyards don't like that.

[RogerDat]

"NETWORKING" is the key to most things in this life! The engineering firm I own sees a lot of business just by word of mouth and networking in the industries I serve.

No man is an island! Treat others right and it will come back to you 10 fold. If I remember right, the bible talks about bread, water, "casting", and returns! :bigsmyl2:

Just like your folks probably told you growing up. Saying please and thank you goes a long way. The other truth is you generally find more of what it is you seek out. Letting people know what you want. Especially at the scrap yards, or with construction crews, roofers, friends and neighbors. You need to let them know what it is you are looking for. As well as making it a point to seek on your own regularly.

[Polymath]

I think every caster should have a hardness tester to see what he really is melting. They cost less than a set of premium dies and will let you know what you pour. Last month I fought with a pot of alloy and had to double my normal tin % to get it right. Range scrap can be anything. A few years ago I came into possession of 5 gallons of unknown bars. Tested them and the hardness was off the scale. Pure tin. So hardness testers pay for themselves right away.

[lightman]

I know that almost nobody collects the lead insulator pins from the electric companies. I don't suppose a person would have much luck with the HUGE companies in some states, but the little co-op electric companies in the South and flyover country are sometimes happy for somebody to haul them off due to the fact that the lead is cast onto the steel pins and junkyards don't like that.

Me and another member, Biggin, have saved these and melted them. The most common size pins have about 4 or 5 oz of lead on them. The ones that I had tested were about the same composition as clip on weights. Melting them is a slow go as is building a lead stash from them but free is free! Biggin finally suited up in his knife making leather aporn, face shield and welding gloves and stuck 3 or 4 with each hand into the molten lead. I know, thats a no no! Right now you can sell the bare steel pin for 10cents a pound as scrap.

[RyanJames170]

The problem I’ve found with wheel weights is the fact you have to pay lead prices for them and you get mostly zinc and steel, why I’ve decided to stay away from them.. one good source of lead I’ve found is burms though,

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Living far from places where scrap lead is readily available, I find buying lead from folks on this forum or some commercial sources to be as 'cheap' as spending hours driving 50 to 75 miles looking for 'deals' on scrap, then smelting and all the rest. My postal delivery folk are helpful and kind, come up the drive and let me unload the lead into my shop or storage building. Maybe if you live in a populated area and spend more time chasing garage sales and 'deals' it is worth your time. Good or bad, my network is very small so I spend my time shooting on my range or doing other activities I enjoy. If bargaining and finding deals on lead is your thing, that's fine but that doesn't work for me.

[Mitch]

RogerDat
A great thread.I have posted here a few times about why WW. I was very lucky to find this site several years ago.I was lucky to get into hunting lead then. I went often bought what I could and learned here what i needed to do with what I found here on this site.One of the problems i have seen now is scrap yards closeing out of the 3 here that would sell lead 2 have closed.So now it is down to one place for me and all the other lead hunters.
Now the old school ideas are not bad they work and work well. I agree it is somewhat of a Snipe hunt looking for WW and bars of solder.But it is still a good place to start.Just as you have been talking about in this thread just a little differnt way of going about using the info.This is from alot of lead hunting on my part.After finding mostly sheet,sheathing and sheet lead.After all we want an alloy that works for our application.I do not see WW I see .5% sn 3%sb alloy.From there is is just Math and some good use of the alloy calulator found here.Of course you need some source of SN and SB.So teaching the are of alloying is still about the same just from differnt componets. So to me WW is just another alloy to plug into the alloy calulator.

I totaly agree on the networking being a great way to find lead and alloys.This has been a big key in my hunting.is is surprising how many people will bring you a few sinkers or a few ww maybe an old sheet found in the gramps barn.a bar or 2 of solder or evein pure tin most anything can and will show up.

[TyGuy]

I stumbled across another small source of lead this summer. My wife and I took our kayaks to a local lake to spend a few hours paddling around. I ended up finding lots of lead head jigs, sinkers, and weighted bobbers tangled in places that boats couldn’t go and people on the bank couldn’t reach. I supplemented my range scrap with what I found.

It was certainly more work for less reward than just buying a bucket of wheel weights but we were just out to enjoy a day on the water and it was fun rescuing that poor lead from it’s tangled fate and turning it into what God intended when He said “Let there be galena.”

[fredj338]

WW are scarce because Kalifornia banned them more than 10y ago. More cars in Kalif than maybe 25 states combined. SO the ww guys switched out all their ww. YOu can certainly still find lead based ww but for the most part they will be zinc or steel. I stopped hunting them years ago & now its mostly berm mining. I think you are correct in that a new caster is probably better off buying a known alloy to get going with. It just removes a variable to getting good results. SO 20# of lyman #2 or such is a good start, then start hitting the berms for free alloy. At least there you know its a ll useful alloy.

[oley55]

I'm way new to the casting world, but as has already been presented, so many of our go casting books/manuals/sources are closely connected to wheel weights. Being new to the game, I seem to be more focused on the accumulation of alloys over casting said alloys. To that end I continue to enjoy reasonable success in finding wheel weights. Is it a lot of work and effort, but I usually manage 50% COWW out out whatever wheel weights I buy. After sorting and rendering I am paying about 40 cents a pound for my wheel weight alloy and find myself searching for softer alloys to make 50/50. At my time of life, my labor and time is of little value and is not calculated into my cost per pound.

If/when my kids decide to start casting boolits, I do wonder if it will be cost effective for them. Hell I'm beginning to wonder about myself. All that said, I intend to continue to accumulate as much wheel weight/scrap alloy as I can, while I can and consider my lead stores a shrinking commodity (redneck gold as it were) carrying an ever increasing value. Translation; buy cheap, work hard and build wealth while we still can.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

From experience I would say that new casters tend to go a bit too hard. While I have had excellent results with #2 alloy in 1750 fps rifle loads, I have had very good results with magnum revolver loads up to 1250 with just over 10 bhn. Coww are supposed to be about 15 bhn. Perhaps that is why it's common to cut them with 50% pure. Not sure I ever had a revolver boolit that was too soft.

[RogerDat]

I think Mitch has the same experience I expect going forward. The soft lead sheeting and pipe will be the most common "find". So while I can find anything else I'm focusing my funds on that. I have a metal can where I keep receipts and notes on what I have purchased. If wife ever discovers it... let us say my biggest mistake will probably turn out to be teaching her to shoot and failing to flee soon enough.

The auto makers are building cars to sell all over the world. Many states, and most countries don't allow lead WW's so the car comes off the line with lead free so it can be sold in any market. Then after those tires wear out the replacement tires will get lead WW's (in states that allow lead WW's). Lead WW's are easier and faster for tire balancing so shops prefer them. BUT you won't see those lead WW's in the tire store bucket until this second set of tires is being replaced. That may well be at 70k to 80k miles on the odometer. This is why I tell people to look at shops that sell used tires. They are more likely to deal with older cars and less likely to be a "corporate" store unwilling to sell to you.

Mitch summed it up well. COWW's are simply an alloy with 3 - 3.5 Sb and .5 or less Sn One can make the equivalent alloy. Or mix the specific alloy one would have made from WW's such as a 1.5 Sb and some tin for an alloy equivalent to 50/50 WW/Pb alloy.

I have a lot because once I started searching the "hunt" became part of the fun of casting. I started many years ago when it was a bit easier to find stuff. I hunted regularly. Going to thrift stores on lunch break, or to scrap yards. I set aside money on a regular basis so I had some funds in my shooting cookie jar when I found a larger purchase of desirable lead. Nothing stinks like finding 50# of linotype and only having funds for30# of it. Still 30 is better than none and if you treated scrap yard guys well maybe they will set aside that other 20# in a bucket for you when you can come back with more money.

Tip DO NOT ask wife if she still wears those earrings you bought her. She will want to know why you're asking and that question does not lead anyplace good. I know pawn shop seems like a good idea and it is linotype but.... just don't. Better to just set aside the money you can so you can purchase more lead than you use. Over time that adds up. Starting out plan on filling in with some store bought materials.

[white eagle]

New folks will learn quickly if scrounging is worth the time and expense. Over ten years ago, I realized it was not worth doing...I worked 50+ hour weeks, made a good salary and loved shooting more than saving a few $$$ on alloy.

No one right answer for everyone

Agreed the coveted wheel weight is all but gone
scrounging for them is a often a waste of gas look for substitutes like Isotope cores
or some type of foundry alloy and have it brought to you
but the chase is sometimes worth the time and fuel expended

[RogerDat]

I should add that while casting and reloading in theory is saving money the real value is in making ammo tailored to your barrel and the use you make of it. Along with having a supply of what you need irrespective of the current market for ammo or components.

I get better accuracy and a more pleasant time a the range using a good fitting bore rider bullet with a mild load in old milsurp rifles. The factory ammo is too expensive to shoot much of it and hammers the shoulder with less accuracy. Plinking to hunting to working on your bench rest shooting skills are all casting and reloading gains that go against the cost.

If you develop a mold addiction all bets are off. I did the single mold from Lee for each caliber, now I'm coming back through to find my forever mold for each one. So far I'm accumulating a lot of frogs I kissed looking for a prince among molds in each caliber. At least I'm not a H&G mold addict. I think some of them would trade their wife's car for a nice hard to find H&G mold. Especially if it came with handles.

[gwpercle]

The main reason I bought Elmer Keith's book ," Sixgun Cartridges & Loads " , was to see what he used to cast boolits from in 1936 . Chapter 4 - Bullet Casting revealed exactly what I wanted to know:

1 part Tin with 20 parts Lead (1 / 20 ) : For most revolver cartridges including all light (target) and normal pressure loads up to 1,000 fps.

1 part Tin with 16 parts Lead (1 / 16) : For heavy and magnum loads over 1,000 fps.

1 part Tin with 10 parts Lead ( 1 / 10) : For automatic pistol and small cal. smokeless rifle loads like 30-30 , 32 Special , 30-40 Krag , 30-06 etc.

Evidently Elmer didn't have access to wheel weights and I had an unlimited free wheel weight supply but he retired from the tire business and I have only a couple buckets left . Scrap lead is available as Range Scrap and building materials ... they still build with it . Tin is still available ...but...
I needed to know what the old sixgun shooters used and the ratio to cast boolits.

If anyone wants a copy of Elmer's reprinted reloading book it is available for $9.95 w/ free shipping at Amazon . You can actually read exactly what his loads are ... he reloads one for himself but recommends the reader use a lighter load ... You get to see what a "Real Keith" load is and he explains his bullets designs ... not second hand info ... cool read too !
Gary

[Omega]

Oh, I don't know, I still come across a little mom and pop place now and then that has a bucket or two still in the shop because it would cost them to get rid of it. And junk yards still have many cars that have lead weights on them, harder to harvest, but sometimes worth the trip. While they may no longer be a cheap principle source, they are worth mentioning for those willing to look.

[Mitch]

Casting reloading and saveing money HUM.This to goes back to the old days of free WW.Back in 1990 my best Bud and I tryed to cast bullets.He owned a mall atomotive rapair shop so he knew every one in town.so we collected 600lbs of ww in no time all free.He got the weights i did the melting so it was a 50/50 deal just like our reloading setup at the time.all we got done was severly lead the barrels of our S&W 686s.didnt take long to give up and shooting cast bullets.

IN 1990 the ww were still all lead and still free long story short my best Bud who by the way passed away sudenly at 50 wanted to get out of casting and sell the ww lead so that is what happend. We both figured we colud cast bullets and save more money like we did with the reloading setup we bought about a year before. the thought was totaly rolling your own would make it so we could shoot more yet.This was true at the time free ww ad a basic rcbs special 5 reloading kit.one lee mold and i got my Dads old plummers furnace for free to.So this still partly true today.For those who keep things simple for there shooting needs.be it weekend plinking or lots of practice rounds for comp shooting.the bad news it the free stuuf is all but gone least in any volume,

Fast forword to about 2011 to present that is when i found this site and got all the helpfull information i needed to get my guns shooting cast bullets.If i would have tryed my cast bullets in my 586 they would have shot fine.it was the gun not the bullets.iI have always found more soft lead then anything hard>sure i fund a fair amout of WW.But what is gone today is the solder is use to find on most trips to the scrap yeard next to none to be found now days.I gave up on WW long ago.I think back to the 90s if i would have got my cast bullets to shoot then my house would be sinking from all the good stuff i would have found back then lol.

Now there is another thing that is in all the casting books type metals Lino Mono Foundry no matter. I have never found any type metals at the scrap yards.I been hunting lead since about 2011.Is it out there sure is but like the WW not very much of it.That went away in the 80s like alot of things.Still to this day the Layman cast manule gives bullet casting aloy made from WW and linotype.I totaly agree that the new caster my be better off buying some ready made alloy to start out.that would elimitate all the learing there is to hunting lead of unknown alloy and get them going on the right track.I took me quite a while to get the jest of making my own allot from scrap.
I am by no means and old pro at alloying and casting bullets just getting older lol.I have learned alot from this site and many of the fine members here.If i do post some advise it is likely that i have been there done that type of thing.I have learned that erly on i wasted alot of tin thinking I needed more.I learned that the right tools for the job make things go much better.I learned that as we get older and into our hobbies more and more it is not about saveing money as much as makeing good quality ammo and being proud that I made my own.And as we get older mybe we want to pull the lever alot less times per round.Most of all i learned there are still good people out here on this site willing to help a guy out.I still miss my best bud Rick and wish he could have been here with me thru the journy of learning to cast our own bullets. He would have enjoyed it all.

[RyanJames170]

One thing I’ve picked up from reading some older books is that wheel weight lead had to be a post WWII thing, probably late 1950’s maybe..

[Cosmic_Charlie]

The main reason I bought Elmer Keith's book ," Sixgun Cartridges & Loads " , was to see what he used to cast boolits from in 1936 . Chapter 4 - Bullet Casting revealed exactly what I wanted to know:

1 part Tin with 20 parts Lead (1 / 20 ) : For most revolver cartridges including all light (target) and normal pressure loads up to 1,000 fps.

1 part Tin with 16 parts Lead (1 / 16) : For heavy and magnum loads over 1,000 fps.

1 part Tin with 10 parts Lead ( 1 / 10) : For automatic pistol and small cal. smokeless rifle loads like 30-30 , 32 Special , 30-40 Krag , 30-06 etc.

Evidently Elmer didn't have access to wheel weights and I had an unlimited free wheel weight supply but he retired from the tire business and I have only a couple buckets left . Scrap lead is available as Range Scrap and building materials ... they still build with it . Tin is still available ...but...
I needed to know what the old sixgun shooters used and the ratio to cast boolits.

If anyone wants a copy of Elmer's reprinted reloading book it is available for $9.95 w/ free shipping at Amazon . You can actually read exactly what his loads are ... he reloads one for himself but recommends the reader use a lighter load ... You get to see what a "Real Keith" load is and he explains his bullets designs ... not second hand info ... cool read too !
Gary

I wonder if tin was cheap and plentiful back in Elmer's day. Must have been. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/tin
In 1974 tin was less than $2.50/#

[RyanJames170]

I wonder if tin was cheap and plentiful back in Elmer's day. Must have been. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/tin
In 1974 tin was less than $2.50/#


The wheel weights pre 50’s were not even close to the clip on or stick on things, they looked more like a lug not like thing that bolted on, and probably were steel. Like I figured the WW lead thing is probably a 1950’s and later thing probably getting popular late 50’s early 60’s

[Dusty Bannister]

https://www.tirereview.com/working-with-wheel-weights-mistakes-best-practices-and-choosing-the-right-one/

Says patented in the 30's, with little change since then.

[oley55]

I'm a purty young feller, but tin couldn't have been too expensive else we wouldn't have be using and tossing Christmas tree tinsel (well actually we reused our real tinsel year after year). I remember when the chrome plastic stuff came out and how walking past the Christmas tree your static charge would pull off some of the tinsel. I remember thinking why would they sell this junk instead of the real stuff. So maybe it WAS getting more expensive.