New Caliber

[dddddmorgan]

So the plan is by spring to have a new varmint rifle.

I'm too Scotch to just plunk down custom gun money so I want to go "semi-custom."

I'll pick up a Savage or Remington 223 gun when the right thing comes along and re barrel it to 20 something/ 223.

I might lean toward the Savage and I can re-barrel it myself.

So in looking around at 20 something/ 223 it seems there isn't an absolute.

I like everything I've seen so far; 20 caliber for flat and fast shooting, using the 223 cases I have, etc.

So, how about some input folks?

[ulav8r]

Why not a 204 Ruger?

[dddddmorgan]

Well I thought about the Ruger but buying the brass would be more expensive than using the goodies I have on hand.

Still not completely out of the question if the right thing comes along.

[Winger Ed.]

I'm a big Rem 700 guy.
If I was doing it, I'd find an older short action one, and put a heavy contour aftermarket barrel on it in .22-250.
Then a speed lock firing pin, aftermarket trigger guts, Tubb's recoil lug, Sako extractor, Leupold mounts and a GOOD scope.
Then maybe a higher end after market stock.

Maybe you'll end up with something like I did with a 700 my Mom gave me for Christmas when I first got out of the Service.
I accidently destroyed the .270ADL on a hunting trip, but rebuilt it in .30-06.
I was able to do it all myself (checkering too) except fit & headspace the barrel, and carve the notch for the new extractor.

[dddddmorgan]

Well, I've thought about the 22/250 route, I guess that's not out of the question.

Certainly the short Remington action is superior.

Good thing I've got all winter to work this out ;-)

[Winger Ed.]

Good thing I've got all winter to work this out ;-)

Good luck with it.
It took me about 5 years before mine was done.

[dverna]

I am lucky....I do not have the ability to shoot tiny critters at ranges beyond what a .233 can handle.

[nicholst55]

Been done; it's called the .20 Practical. Google it.

[M-Tecs]

Good info here. https://www.6mmbr.com/20caliber.html

I do all my own barreling and chambering. I prefer the Tikka 595 as a base but the Savage barrel nut allows for lower cost barrel changes and the ability for everyone to do their own changes themselves.

[dddddmorgan]

Yes, I've found the 20 Practical and it certainly has its merits.

Doesn't look like any 20 other than the 204 Ruger has been standardized. This doesn't matter to me, just a point I guess.

[36g]

I like the Savage for ease of rebarreling. I'd tend to look at a wildcat with the .223 case necked down and a bit longer neck (shoulder pushed back) to hold a heavier ELD type of bullet. In my experience a .223 for varminting has a disadvantage in windy conditions much beyond 200 yds (at least with 55 gr. bullets). South Dakota prairie dog shooting was frustrating with a .223 but then stepped up to a .243 and that made a huge difference in wind.

[Finster101]

Like 36g I would have to look at 6mm. I have been researching 6mm ARC and am real close to pulling the trigger on one. I will be using an AR platform though. Out to 300 yards everything I have read has been very positive.

[Elmer Fudd]

Hmmm. 223 brass in hand. Wanting varmint caliber. How about a 223? The savings in bullets over a 20 or a 6mm version of those brass more than makes up for the fact that the 223 isn't usually overkill. Use some plastic tipped bullets and you will pop small varmints out past 300 and keep bullets in coyotes at nearly any distance, or have small-enough exits to be able to sell the pelts.
I'd prefer a 22-250 or a 6x45, but then I'm back to the savings with brass, powder volume and bullets in a 223. A true step up in a short action could be a 243 or equivalent.

[36g]

I did a 6mm PPC on a heavy barreled AR platform some years ago but still haven't gotten back to load work up on it. It functions okay just haven't tweaked it for best accuracy loads.

[deltaenterprizes]

I am lucky....I do not have the ability to shoot tiny critters at ranges beyond what a .233 can handle.

233? You have fat fingers like me? ��

[Baltimoreed]

I was always partial to the .25-06. Had a Ruger #1V and a Remington Sendero. Both were very accurate but might be more gun than you want.

[GregLaROCHE]

What boolit would you use? What weight?

[dddddmorgan]

Well, I have a 223 and on my shooting trips I always come home with a bag or two of more brass for 223 than when I started. So anything based on the 223 is a bonus from the standpoint of plentiful brass to work with.

A long 6mm bullet is almost ballistically perfect and IMHO would be ideal for the long, long range shots.

My idea on a 20 caliber is something I can make (or find) in a rifle heavy enough that repeated shooting gives no recoil that would get tiresome.

I like the idea of using bullets I have on hand and/or can swap between calibers.

So here's how it lays out in my mind with what I have and what I'd like to eventually have:

22 TCM - "walking varmint" out to 200 yards on a calm day.
223 - I have a Savage Axis. Going to swap the junky synthetic stock for a Boyd's and it's good for 300 yards.

The "blanks" to fill in are a light shooting, medium-heavy rifle (bench or prone shooting) and a heavier hitter for long shots (300-500 yards).

I know the 22/250 would be a good heavy hitter if it was set up for long and heavy bullets.

The 25/06 has great merit here in Idaho for variety such as Coyote and Antelope and of course deer but this would necessitate it being a rifle one could carry.

Kind of chasing the rabbit down the hole, eh?

[curdog007]

I've been thinking about something like this, probably go with 223 Ackley Improved. You can do all the work yourself with a Savage.
You don't have to throw most everything away and start over with aftermarket stuff, unlike a Rem 700.

[GregLaROCHE]

I wold think that 308 brass should be easy to find too. Could you neck that down to 243?

[Finster101]

I wold think that 308 brass should be easy to find too. Could you neck that down to 243?

That should be very easy.

[dverna]

Well, I have a 223 and on my shooting trips I always come home with a bag or two of more brass for 223 than when I started. So anything based on the 223 is a bonus from the standpoint of plentiful brass to work with.

A long 6mm bullet is almost ballistically perfect and IMHO would be ideal for the long, long range shots.

My idea on a 20 caliber is something I can make (or find) in a rifle heavy enough that repeated shooting gives no recoil that would get tiresome.

I like the idea of using bullets I have on hand and/or can swap between calibers.

So here's how it lays out in my mind with what I have and what I'd like to eventually have:

22 TCM - "walking varmint" out to 200 yards on a calm day.
223 - I have a Savage Axis. Going to swap the junky synthetic stock for a Boyd's and it's good for 300 yards.

The "blanks" to fill in are a light shooting, medium-heavy rifle (bench or prone shooting) and a heavier hitter for long shots (300-500 yards).

I know the 22/250 would be a good heavy hitter if it was set up for long and heavy bullets.

The 25/06 has great merit here in Idaho for variety such as Coyote and Antelope and of course deer but this would necessitate it being a rifle one could carry.

Kind of chasing the rabbit down the hole, eh?

I have a Howa Mini-Mauser in .223 and it might cover both of your first needs. It weighs less than 6 lbs so it fits the "walking varmint" slot and it will shoot accurately to 300 yards. I am planning to get a Boyd's stock for it.

I understand the other "blanks" you want to fill, but question the need vs cost. I knew a guy who would travel out west from MI with his buddy to shoot prairie dogs at very long range. He used a 6.5/284 and that must have cost him a small fortune to build and load for...and for what? Not like it is something you can eat or mount on a wall. He did it three times and once the new had worn off realized it was not worth doing anymore. He told me most of the varmints fell to his .223 at less than 300 yards. Is stretching a .223 to 400 yards less fun than using a dedicated long range rifle at 600 yards? And if you miss a varmint at 400 yards, does it matter? Just something to ponder.

It comes down to the 80-20 rule. 80% of the time your .223 is going to be perfect. To have the "right" rifle for the other 20% of your shots will cost 2-3 times as much to build and shoot. And now you need to lug two rifles out on "safari".

I went down a similar rabbit hole. Had at various times a .243. 6mm, .243 WSSM and .25/06. Sold them all and 'make do' with the .223. But I do not "need" to shoot varmints beyond 300 yards in order to eat, or sell a pelt.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I think I would start with a used Remington 700 in .223 with the idea of rebarreling it in .223 with a faster twist quality custom barrel. Usually your shots will be under 300yds. anyway and you have already amassed brass for it...

[36g]

I think I would start with a used Remington 700 in .223 with the idea of rebarreling it in .223 with a faster twist quality custom barrel. Usually your shots will be under 300yds. anyway and you have already amassed brass for it...

I like the concept of not reinventing the wheel. If you have lots of .223 brass, powder, and primers go with a known .223 action of choice and rebarrel it with a solid/accurate barrel that will stabilize the heaviest, highest BC and ELD bullet that you can find.

[lar45]

If you really want a 20 something on a 223 case, and we're being frugal on the budget...
Custom dies are expensive. Custom reamers are expensive also.
How about a 204x223, or a 204 short?
Essentially just a sort chambered 204, run the reamer in to 223 length and trim the base off of stock 204 dies...
If you want to spend money, spend it on a Custom barrel, Kreiger maybe?

[buckwheatpaul]

I have the Stevens (the cheap vs. of Savage) it came with a 111 action and a great trigger. It shoot minute of angle with Hornady Tap 223 ammo and I would not part with it....this was my first Savage and it wont be my last!

[Three44s]

While I am no particular fan of the Axis, I am of the regular Savage and Stevens rifle’s. Barrel wise there is no difference. I was like you, hung up on cheap .223 brass but in the meantime a good friend unloaded his big stash of once fired Hornady brass in .204.

I was off to the races, bought a varmint weight Savage take off barrel in the 204. What a shooter! Disliked the heaviness and found a sporter barrel. Great shooter as well.

It’s too bad that components are so scarce now as I would say just go 204 and be done with it.

So is the 20 Practical good? You bet. Will it pay to swap it into your Axis?

I do not know. I do know you have a ways to go with stock and trigger changes before I would make the switch. Also the availability of dies and their cost are a factor.

I run from rimfire to the 25-06 and I still do most even on coyotes with 223 but it’s because it’s my “beater rifle” on a ranch (my occupation).

Sorry if I have set you back on your decision making.

Three44s

[Shopdog]

If your choice is a new(used) rifle,consider bolt/case head size.

I have some very accurate cast rigs in 22 chamberings..... the "problem" with the 223 is the limit on what all you can do with that bolt head size? Going with the 22-250,I get the 473 bolt head which has a HUGE family of cartridges that you can barrel for.

A R700 replacement bolt is 150$+... even swapping out a Savage,small head to large has gotten a little/lot pricey'er. Nothing wrong with a 223,just have to know it's limitations.

[Blanco]

I bought a Savage 111 long action in .223 (yes the blind mag had a spacer from factory)
Mostly because I got it Cheap as the barrel was shot out.
I decided to be different and went with .224 Valkyrie.
Got a barrel from Crown Ridge Barrel works https://www.crownridgebarrelworks.com/
and go/ no go gauges and did the swap myself. ( new bolt head from PTG )
possibly one of my most accurate rifles (after break in )
Really likes the Hornady 88 Gr ELD bullets.

[dddddmorgan]

Blanco, what twist rate is the barrel?

[Blanco]

1~7 twist

[rockrat]

223AI and AA2520 powder with 53gr vmax. IIRC, velocities are right near 3600fps, 1-12" twist.

[alphapredator]

In 2005, I bought a 204, in a savage bolt gun, the caliber was new , and the brass was expensive, took the gun to savage shooter down in Ohio, and he rechambered it to 20 tactical, it wil equal 22-250 out to 500 yds, 223 is a great round, but the 20's are better, 20 vartarg, is the most effecient round we tried, same range as a 223, I have both!