Scope shooting

[jednorris]

As a result of an eye injury I now have put a Scope on my Browning .40/65 B.P.C.R. and it is a new experience learning windage shooting. My past experiences with Scopes have been on higher velocity Rifles where wind has not had as much control over the bullet. I have set up my Scope windages at yardages in "no wind" conditions. My Mentor has convinced me that "chasing the wind" and changing my settings is not the thing to do. He is advising me in the art of "holding off" to make corrections for different wind conditions rather than changing my windage adjustments. I am finding many Scope shooters in my area use the same tactics, is this a good and commonly used practice ?.

[M-Tecs]

That depends on your equipment and skill level. It also depends what you are actually doing?

If the scope has click adjustments or screws with index marks serious competitors favor adjusting the scope over holdoffs. I do know some top level competitors that do both depending on the situation, however, I do not know any top level competitors that are hold off only.

If you are using a BPCR scope it will not have click adjustments but people do put index marks on them.

Wind reading takes a lot of shooting to become competent. While it is true that time of bullet flight does effect the amount of drift reality is all bullets are subject to wind drift. A 308 Win with a 175 grain Sierra Match Kings drifts 98.6 inches at a 1,000 yards with a 10 mph full value wind.

He is correct that "chasing the wind" is a losing proposition. "Chasing the wind" indicates you are using target feedback as the sole adjustment feedback. Doing that you are normally behind the conditions.

"Chasing the wind" is much different than learning to read the wind and adjusting before the shot. Personally 90% of the time I adjust the scope before the shot, but, if the situation dictates I will hold off about 10% of the time. Normally that is reserved for hunting.

Post #2 has some links https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?432067-Effect-of-mirage-and-what-to-do-about-it&highlight=wind+reading

As to if holding off is common that is yes. Must more common with shooter than do not read wind well. Is it good? That depends. If you develop the ability to "read wind" either will work but clicking tends to work better for serious applicants. If you don't know how to read wind neither is very effective.

[Don McDowell]

If you’re shooting steel then holding of center is a handy thing to do
Shooting target rifle it could bite you in the butt big time, altho the mill dot recticle MVA offers in their scopes can serve well if the conditions are a little twitching
But in reality moving you scope adjustments or holding off is still chasing the wind


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[M-Tecs]

Maybe it's a difference of terminology between shooting disciplines. In NRA Highpower, F-Class, Palma and long range benchrest the term "chasing the wind" is when a shooter takes the shot and adjusts for the wind as opposed to actually reading the wind and adjusting before the shot. Two problems with "chasing the wind". First you lose points or hits on the first shot and second you are always behind the switch not in front of them.

"Chasing the wind" can work well except for the first shot if the conditions stay consistent. That is rarely the case in the locations I shoot.

With the Highpower crowd the term is frequently used when you get behind reading the wind and your shooting 9's or worse out both sides.

Good overview here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SXsNJkG6LIESHBRhRjqoK7EUSb2N_Bqbxk2ymxz867I/edit#

[GregLaROCHE]

Getting a handle on holding off is definitely an advantage when hunting. Both for windage and distance, when you need to take a quick shot. I have never used a scope with BP, but with hi power smokeless rounds, I would sight in usually at 100 yards and go from there.

[country gent]

Learning to read the wind is key here. when you can see the wind changes whether by flags, mirage grass and foliage correcting can save you hits and lost points With the lepould scope on my long range rifle I do click for wind changes, with my MVA and DZ scopes I favor for wind. But the MVA and DZ scopes have graduations no clicks but the MVa has vernier scales that are very accurate just hard to read and see. The DZ is a unertl style mount with micrometer scales, that are very accurate.

The other is to find out what material the flags are made from When they switched from cotton to nylon this made a big difference as the to flew different. also humidity and rain affected the 2 differently. Mirage is good but only until it lays flat around 12 mph wind.

In silhouettes the moa grid on your spotter target works well as a way to judge hold of or favor on the animal. My spotter and use 9 white pins and one blue pin. The blue pin is the last shot the white are the group.

[Nobade]

My shooting partner is very experienced at Palma, and after we started with BPCR he decided the wind had about four times the effect on our bullets. Without his help I doubt I could shoot the scores I'm used to in silhouette, that big spotting scope and his eyes are very valuable. And the scope is much better than irons for holding off as I can see exactly where it's pointed. At Whittington, the rifle is very seldom pointed at the target when the shot is fired since the wind is nearly constant and frequently switches direction.

[Don McDowell]

Absolutely being able to read the wind and mirage is the difference in being able to score well and not. Providing you have a load capable of shooting tight groups.
In bpcrs, a shot that knocks the animal off the rail when hit in the horn or foot counts the same as the one perfectly centered, same with gong matches if it makes the target ring, it's the same as a dead center hit. So taking WAG's at the wind and holding off won't bite you like doing that in a target rifle match, where the difference in a national championship can be determined by a single x on the final score.
The importance of having a good no wind zero can't be overstressed, and being able to get a close handle on the conditions at a match are really important.

[Gunlaker]

I definitely prefer to adjust windage on the scope, but it depends on what type of scope mounts I am using. With the Unertl style, or the MVA with "moa knobs" it's pretty easy. I will sometimes, for a small wind change, hold off. But that is usually for shooting at a wide target like rams, and only if I'm using one of my MVA scope with mildots. At long range paper, I can only remember holding off once.

One very good thing about turning the knobs is that you always know how much windage you have on at any moment. When holding off in quick changing winds I think it's much easier to get lost, i.e. forget how much windage you've been using under various conditions.

Chris.

[Chill Wills]

Use the knobs.
I normally use the knobs to adjust before every shot as needed.

However,
If you have rapid switchy conditions, by the time you get the updated change, put it in the scope and get back in the sights, it has changed again. In these cases it is best to hold off, make the shot and then put into the scope the amount you held off. Why? This keeps the scope updated as if you had time to make the changes before the shot. In-turn, you and your coach (assuming you have one) don't have two things to remember and adjust for the next new condition. In other words, you don't get lost (as easy).
Getting lost? ...It happens.
Correcting the scope after the shot fixes one variable.

[Gunlaker]

Adjusting the scope after holding off. That's smart! Thanks for that.

Chris.

[marlinman93]

I also was taught by my mentor not to chase the wind by making constant adjustments. But with a caveat. If the wind keeps changing velocity, or direction, then he told me to not "chase it". But if the wind picks up, and remains pretty steady, then after you've held off and know how much to adjust, go ahead and adjust if the wind is holding fairly steady.
I've tried to not make too many windage adjustments until I think the wind is holding. Judging the wind is what the best shooters do well. Or the best spotters do well!