Power Pistol powder

[Golfswithwolves]

Fellow reloaders- I have seen reports where Power Pistol seems to be preferred over Unique for some heavier loads. Does anybody have experience with this powder and would care to comment ? Thanks, Bob

[uscra112]

All I'll use in 9mm full power loads. Don't use it in anything else.

[rancher1913]

its all I use in 9mm as well.

[358429]

The best 9mm powder I have used.

[winelover]

I found it no better than AA#7 for full power 9mm loads.

Winelover

[cwlongshot]

I am new to the powder. Having started using it only a few years ago but it has and is growing to become a favorite of mine.

Loading 380 W/231 I find max loads quick and decisively. With PP I reach the same velocity/ accuracy WITHOUT high pressure.

In 10mm I was really suprised, slowly working up I achieved 98% and plenty for my needs as compared to spiky 800x. Also accuracy has been stellar.

I even use for my 40 as my low velocity powder for comp loadings. Its shooting a 175 almost 850 in a 5" G35 and almost 1050 from my 8.5 pcc also excellent accuracy. I can A zone a sillouette @ 200 yards with that load holding the forehead.

I was a devout Red Dot/ Unique guy. Now PP will stand on my powder shelf right beside them.

CW

[NC_JEFF]

I agree with what has been said above, Power Pistol works really good for me in 9mm and 40.

[Forrest r]

I also use it in the 9mm for hot loads.

Where it really shines for me is with the calibers that are in the +/- 20,000psi range. Pearce did an article in handloader magazine duplicating the buffalo bore a20 38spl P+ load (158gr lead hp gc bullet doing 1000fps in a snubnosed 2" bbl'd revolver). PP does extremely well with standard pressure 44spl loads and 45acp P+ loads.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Looking over the published 9mm data there appears to be no free lunch with that small case capacity. Putting a 125 gr. Up into the 1200 fps. range is a challenge. I've been using Hs 6 with the Lee 356 125r boolit seated deep over 6 grains and I get about 1175 fps on average. Going hotter gives primer flow and firing pin drag marks.

[Thumbcocker]

Best I have ever used in .44 special. +p velocity without going over standard pressure. Also kicks butt in mid level .44 magnum. Works in 9mm and .45 acp too.

[curioushooter]

They are very similar in their applications despite their marketing, with PP being just a wee bit slower than Unique.

PP truly is excellent in 44 Special +P loads despite filling only half the case. In fact, 8 grains of PP pushing a ~250 grainier is supposedly still at standard pressure yet achieves the Skeeter load velocity in for me in both of my revolvers (Flattop Blackhawk and S&W 624). PP only fills half the case. I've never used old formulation Unique much, but the new formulation is about equally clean to PP. PP meters nicer than Unique, but both meter well enough. The problem for PP has been I haven't seen it on a shelf in years.

PP is excellent in 38 +P as well with heavy bullets (158 grains).

PP is excellent in 9mm and 10mm again with heavy side bullets. It was my go-to powder for a decade, and basically sat in my hopper when I shot autos a lot. Even tried fancy Vitaviouri powders and returned to PP because it was just as good.

This said I really like Unique, and am growing fondness for Herco which is just a wee bit slower than PP. Like PP I have found it to work very well in 44 special +P loads with heavy bullets. It goes like this with Alliant powders I've used: Bullseye < Unique < PP < Herco < Blue Dot < 2400 < 300MP. Frankly, I think 2400 is kinda overrated in normal handguns. Blue Dot can almost achieve the same velocity with less powder and flash. 300MP is a fast rifle powder IMO, excellent for 357 mag rifles or 357Mag/Max Contenders. The lower 5 in that group though all have niches and roles they fill better than the others, but are versatile.

One of the great things about Unique (and Bullseye) is they are the oldest powders still in widespread use and there is an abundance of data for them, even for oddball stuff. Rules of thumb with loading them seem to be reliable too.

In my experience Unique is very temperature stable too, which is very important to me. Even at very low temps the velocity/POI stays the same when using unique. I have not tested other powders so extensively in temp extremes because they were noticeably less stable than Unique.

[kingrj]

I have had excellent results in both the .45 Super and .45 Colt...In the .45 Colt it easily produces 1050 fps with a 255 grain Keith bullet in a 4 1/2" barrel Ruger BHk...In the same gun 25 grains of WW296 only makes 40 fps more with the same bullet.

[Forrest r]

8.0gr of pp in the 44spl's makes an excellent standard pressure load.

Did the test target on the right, offhand (5 shots in 25 seconds) at 25ft using a 3" bbl'd ca bulldog/44spl. The black circle is 3" and the inner white circle is 1". Not bullseye accuracy by any means but good enough for my simple needs with that snubnosed revolver. The 245gr keith swc did 830fps and the 200gr type III wc did 835fps.
https://i.imgur.com/ld6RTZd.jpg

Was sighting in the reddots on a couple 22lr pistols on the left target.

[mainiac]

Ive shot the highest vel in my 327 mag,by far,,with pp.also,top speeds in 9mm,,good stuff

[jonp]

Ex Boss gave me a pound to try in my 40Cal. Works and is very consistent but I find it flashy and don't use it much.

[rintinglen]

The best 9mm powder I have used.

My experience is exactly the same. It also works well in 38 super.

[dswancutt]

It was my powder of choice for running fast 147gr in 9mm. I switched to BE-86 and picked up a little more velocity, used a tiny bit less powder and it also had the benefit of reduced flash, noise and recoil.

[OBXPilgrim]

8.0gr of pp in the 44spl's makes an excellent standard pressure load.

Did the test target on the right, offhand (5 shots in 25 seconds) at 25ft using a 3" bbl'd ca bulldog/44spl. The black circle is 3" and the inner white circle is 1". Not bullseye accuracy by any means but good enough for my simple needs with that snubnosed revolver. The 245gr keith swc did 830fps and the 200gr type III wc did 835fps.
https://i.imgur.com/ld6RTZd.jpg

Was sighting in the reddots on a couple 22lr pistols on the left target.

I'm impressed! Most standard 44 special loads just really get my attention in the Charter 44 bulldog.

[Golfswithwolves]

Thanks fellow loaders for your opinions on this powder. Bob

[ddixie884]

It gives about the best return on full weight cast bullets in .38spl, .41spl and .44spl at reasonable pressures...........

[HiVelocity]

I've had good success with AA#5, ~1050fps in 9mm.

HV

[Oyeboten]

I got all inspired to try "Power Pistol" and find that everyone is "out of Stock" with it...sigh...

[veeman]

I put my needed powders on my favorites, and check them a few times a day, time allowing. Scored 4 1lb cans of IMR 4198 this morning from Powder Valley.

[Mk42gunner]

I'm wondering about using Power Pistol in place of Unique in rifle loads. According to every burn chart I have seen it is a bit slower than Unique but faster than Herco.

Just wondering so far, I still have powder I have data for to use in the .38-55.

Robert

[DaveN]

I use PP in 38/44 loads with an M&P 358429. One of my favorites.

[44MAG#1]

I'm wondering about using Power Pistol in place of Unique in rifle loads. According to every burn chart I have seen it is a bit slower than Unique but faster than Herco.

Just wondering so far, I still have powder I have data for to use in the .38-55.

Robert

Don't know where ON THE AVERAGE it is faster than Herco. I have looked at a lot of data on a lot of cartridges and it is slower than both Unique and Herco. In some cases several percentage points. Like in the 44 Special.

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. DaveN- This is the application I have most wondered about, since it seems like PP would be between Unique and 2400 for using the Keith bullet in .38/44 loads. Thanks, Bob

[gc45]

One would think power pistol would be availble what with all its uses and popularity. I wonder if we will ever see it again other than an occasional gunbroker add at rediculous prices. Seems like Alliant Powders are pretty much non existant now and for quit a long time.

[Taterhead]

Power Pistol is my go-to for max 38 spl loads. I've also used it in 10mm. I discovered that BE-86 has the virtues of PP without as much report and flash. It's slightly quicker burning and awesome for 9mm full power ammo.

[AlaskaMike]

Don't get caught up on the burn rate charts. Yes, Power Pistol is generally slower than Unique. But keep in mind that the flakes are much smaller, so a given charge of PP is much more dense than a given charge of Unique, for example.

Just something to keep in mind if you load for large capacity cases like .45 Colt.

[uscra112]

Occurs to me that Power Pistol might be the powder of choice for commercial loaders of 9mm, which could explain scarcity.

My Quickload database ranks Alliant powders thusly:
Bullseye
Unique
Herco
Power Pistol
Blue Dot
2400
There are significant rate differences between each. None is a direct substitute for any other.

I've yet to find the QL data to be incorrect.

If I could not get Power Pistol, I'd try AA#5 or Ramshot True Blue in the 9mm.

[cainttype]

As previously stated by Mk42gunner, Power Pistol is listed as slower than Unique, but faster than Herco by the manufacturer.

Page 11, from Alliant’s manual…

https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog/2017/2017_Alliant_Powder.pdf

Also the burn rate chart from GS Custom bullets.
Same order of Alliant powders in declining burn rate… Unique, Power Pistol, then Herco…

http://gsgroup.co.za/burnrates.html

In the long run the difference is fairly small, so use what makes you happy.

[44MAG#1]

IF one will look at data where both Herco and Powerpistol is listed it doesn't support that Powerpistol is faster than Herco

[uscra112]

Burn rate isn't all there is to it, not by a long shot. Specific heat, Pro/degressivity, energy per unit mass, density, und-und-und. If I can figure out how, I'll post an image of the powder factors panel from Quickload. There are eight fields with numbers in them. When I compare powders, I look at the peak pressure for the loads giving the same muzzle velocity. By that standard, PP is "slower" than Herco.

Herco is bulkier. In one model I've set up for my Beretta using a 124 grain JHP, a 100% fill of Herco can only get you 1100 fps. An equal charge weight of PP yields only 1000 fps, but if I do a 100% fill of PP, the model says 1233 fps.

[cainttype]

Burn rate is Burn rate, it does not determine exactly what velocities, pressures, etc you will get in different sized cases, pressure levels, etc… each and every time and in every circumstance. It is what it is.
I’m sure Alliant would appreciate a phone call explaining that their investment in state of the art testing equipment and ballistic research on the powders THEY produce has been a total waste.
They should be made aware that the professional ballisticians they employ to use that fancy equipment are incompetent, and that fact can be proven by amateur armchair ballisticians.

I don’t use either of the powders in question, but can clearly see what the manufacturer has to say about it.
If I didn’t trust the manufacturer of any powder’s characteristics I’d avoid that manufacturer completely… YMMV.

[44MAG#1]

The question I would ask is why, if Powerpistol is faster burning than Herco why are the acceptable charge weights of Powerpistol in a given cartridge with the same components across the board higher for Powerpistol?
Closed bomb burn test does really little to determine actual burn rates in a cartridge.

[ddixie884]

6gr of PP with a 160gr swc in .38spl is a well known +P loading less than 20,000psi. I got Larry Gibson to load some with 6gr Herco and the pressures were over 23,000 if IRC so in that application it seemed to be faster burning than PP. I read that powders can change burning rates in different applications. Just my $0.02. see below...........

[ranchman]

Power Pistol is an awesome powder.. might say it's the modern day new & improved version of what Unique was back in the day when it was somewhat new. Except Power Pistol does the same thing, in same-cartridges, faster and at lower pressures than Unique can. It's become my own favourite mid-range powder by a good margin.

41colt, 41special, 44special, 45acp, 455eley, 45 cowboy-special... 900fps to 1000fps, it shines in all of them. Unique is only on my shelf as a backup these days.

[Steve E]

PP turns some pretty good performance in all my 10mm's, both accuracy and velocity. It goes good with both 180 gr cast and J word boolits.

Steve........

[Photog]

PP works well for reduced cast rifle loads in my 30 cals: 30-30, 30-06, 300blk, 308, and 30M1 carbine. Reduced loads burn well at the right velocity of 1500-1700fps, nothin is perfect but PP is reliable and works good enough in large cases. Kinda like Titegroup in terms of density, only a good deal slower. Don't go too low or you get hangfires. I don't use it much for pistols, I prefer faster powder as I am rarely chasing high velocities. Right around 8-10gr of PP is fine in reduced cast rifle loads, if I remember correctly. I can even make it cycle a M1 carbine using cast 110gr booits, but I think its still a little fast for that application.

[cwlongshot]

Good to read Photo!

Dont know it it could ever replace Unique/2400... ;)

CW

[Photog]

Power Pistol falls between Unique (faster) and 2400 (slower). I never used Unique but I have 20/28, which is a skoosh faster than Unique. 2400 being just a bit slower is better in those 1700fps rifle loads and burns well at those pressures, but definitely won't burn in smaller pistol cases at standard velocities from my experience. Sure it will make my .40S&W go bang, but its pretty nasty. I think that PP is very versatile, covering a really large range of usable loads from standard pressure pistol loads to low pressure rifle loads. PP also meters better in my opinion as its a finer grain. This feature is generally wasted on the cartridges its loaded in as the +/- .1grain variation I get in Alliant's flattened disk powder is not noticed in handgun loads.