About the ammo shortage; Best read yet.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

https://prospect.org/economy/great-american-ammunition-conspiracy/

Good info here.

[Mal Paso]

Wow, Thanks!

[jdfoxinc]

This administration is anti small business. They are harder to control.

[8mmFan]

https://prospect.org/economy/great-american-ammunition-conspiracy/

Good info here.

EXCELLENT writeup. Thanks for sharing!

8mmFan

[tommag]

The article suggests steps the government could take to alleviate the problem. Yeah, right. I don't see our government wanting more ammo in the hands of the serfs.

Side tracking a bit, I saw a familiar face and name in the article. I knew Doug Tangen when he was a deputy in Cowlitz County. Real good man.

[GhostHawk]

That was a good read, thank you OP for posting.

[MrWolf]

Interesting article. The current administration has zero concerns about small business and anything to do with anything that could be associated with citizens independence. Making government more efficient violates the make government bigger mantra. The comment about China, for example, being able to possibly control materials we need is spot on. We are in trouble as we now rely on far to many other countries.

[jakharath]

Great read. Beginning to think that the stock market is doing more harm than good.

[MUSTANG]

Freedom is at risk when power is Legislatively Instituted into the collective hands of Walls Street (often significantly owned and controlled by foreign interests), the Federal Bureaucracy now considerably controlled by the same family names generation to generation), and our Federally Elected Officials (once again significantly controlled by the same families through multi-generations). At the same time; when the Federal Government actively restricts new competitors entering the market place through excessively restrictive regulation, limitations on licensure and contracts, and preference given to Large Corporate Structure - we see the Freedoms of US citizens eroded and power continually centralized into a massive Federal Government at the expense of individual, local, state, and regional interests. It also facilitates the weakening of US sovereignty and safety.

I had a discussion in the Barber Shop a few weeks ago where I have encouraged a variety of "Regulars" to start reloading (and even a couple casting); I have even "Subsidized" a few with critical components such as selling a couple hundred primers at "Old Prices" to get them started. Any way; the discussion got around to why the primer and now to a lesser extent the powder shortages. They wanted to know "Why Don't you start a Small local Primer Manufacturing Company". After I explained the land requirements, facility requirements, "Skills Requirement", building of machinery (even using concepts from the 1920's), Environmental and Safety requirements, Regulatory Compliance, and Lack of Interest from Banks and Financers - they understood the challenges. Although there is an ability for an individual to "Roll their Own" Primers, the mid ground between that and a small to medium business standing up operations compared to a Mega Corporation is a totally different manner. I'll say it again, a massive and growing Federal Government is a threat to Individual Liberty and Freedom.

[Thunder Stick]

Thanks OP. Interesting article. Makes me wonder what percentage of our available ammo is imported by foreign manufacturers. Will they, and smaller domestic ammo companies, be able to take up the slack?

PMC
Aguila
Geco
PPU
Magtech
ZQI
Black Hills
CorBon
Lehigh
Armscor
Nosler
Norma

[contender1]

A very insightful look at the business of ammo & such.

[gwpercle]

As long as Big Brother lets me keep my boolit moulds and reloading tools ... I can get by .

I tried to read the article but evidently you must have an account ... I don't want an account ...
Gary :holysheep

[dverna]

Some of the stuff in that article is questionable. For example, blaming the swings in demand due to hunting season demand is a stretch. Companies are not stupid. They do not wake up one morning and say, "Wow, hunting season is two months away. Let's start making .270 ammo, etc etc". They do not wait for orders either.

They have sales history that is used to estimate what to produce ahead of demand. They have every desire to level their manufacturing load.

As to LEO and government contracts, those quantities are known as well and those contracts reduce operating costs by providing a solid base of demand and encouraging production efficiencies. They can run 10's of millions of rounds of 9mm and 5.56 knowing there will always be a market; and ammunition is not difficult to store in huge quantities.

While producing powder and primers is not easy, we know producing ammunition and bullet is not rocket science. Consolidation of the ammunition producers is not the problem IMO. It is not to difficult to set up a small manufacturing plant to produce jacketed bullets and ammunition (just do an internet search) as I have looked into it. So if/when the market is getting "raped" by the "big boys", others will step in when the profit is there.

BTW, we all remember Russian primers at $16/k retail (likely less than $10k to the importer)...heck I still have thousands. Imagine the cost of a billion primers from China. And we all know that imports from China will NEVER be restricted.

Do not put to much into the article. They are telling you what you want to hear. Some is true, some is not. We are in a global market and, for at least the short term, still a capitalist country where private enterprise can flourish if someone can make a buck or million.

[Geezer in NH]

1 stroke of a pen and foreign import ammo will be gone.

[1eyedjack]

Wonder how much money Olin & Vista Outdoors contributed to Uncle Joe & the other traitors in this admin ?? The government breaks up monopolies when it supports its agendas not going to see that happening anytime soon...

[Huskerguy]

So, as I read this article, it seems to point the finger at private industry consolidation. Of course, everything becomes a problem when one company holds all the cards. However, how many of us were applauding when the government got out of the business of making ammo (thus sucking up resources) and went to the public sector. Less government is always better is it not?

Then they point out how these companies have not been profitable in the past but are now. Well, duh and then there is complaining that more plants aren't being built! What? It isn't profitable all the time and plants are extremely expensive to build but we want the companies to do it anyway!

How about free enterprise take over and some people with the means, go forward and invest in manufacturing ammo, nothing is stopping them. If there is money to be made, people will take advantage of it.

I found the article poorly written with conflicting counter points. Less government, more government enforcement, you can't have it all.

[trebor44]

Great article and portal to a rabbit hole. There is one paragraph (regarding Alcoa) the exemplifies the collusion between the business community and government, e.g. electricity is a requirement for aluminum production, Alcoa need the electricity produced by the Grand Coulee facility, the government controlled Grand Coulee. Why did they (GOVERNMENT) not leverage that control?
What part of 'too big to fail' flies over the heads of consumers? Party affiliation is for the gullible, those in power (be it private sector or government) rely on the lack of knowledge by the consumer (voters). Want a revolution? Then get rid of the incumbents and those who portend to be "powerful" champions of the peasantry.

[Polymath]

As long as Big Brother lets me keep my boolit moulds and reloading tools ... I can get by .

I tried to read the article but evidently you must have an account ... I don't want an account ...
Gary :holysheep

It is a pop up not a paywall , just click the Xon the top left to get to the article.

[Mal Paso]

It is a pop up not a paywall , just click the Xon the top left to get to the article.

That never loaded on mine, thing just kept going round. LOL

[Shawlerbrook]

That is the best explanation of the market I have ever read.

[MT Gianni]

While it is a large part of it it doesn't address the shortages and transportation issues with other products. Most of us cast and reload to avoid shortages. I cannot imagine the mindset of any board member that didn't have 10K of primers and adequate powder headed into this situation. I would think it about the same as starting out on a cross country drive with $25, a six pack of soda and a bag of peanuts.
We are also our own worst enemies. As soon as a product is available someone posts here so that there can be a run on it. In order for prices to return to normal, items must sit on the shelves, not fly off them.
With the current EPA and business restrictions the start up for a primer and or powder manufacturer would be horrendous. I could see the permitting process taking years. The only exception would be if it were "Woman Owned", the latest branding gizmo. There's my two centavos.

[Butzbach]

While it is a large part of it it doesn't address the shortages and transportation issues with other products. Most of us cast and reload to avoid shortages. I cannot imagine the mindset of any board member that didn't have 10K of primers and adequate powder headed into this situation. I would think it about the same as starting out on a cross country drive with $25, a six pack of soda and a bag of peanuts.
We are also our own worst enemies. As soon as a product is available someone posts here so that there can be a run on it. In order for prices to return to normal, items must sit on the shelves, not fly off them.
With the current EPA and business restrictions the start up for a primer and or powder manufacturer would be horrendous. I could see the permitting process taking years. The only exception would be if it were "Woman Owned", the latest branding gizmo. There's my two centavos.

Let me stimulate your imagination and share one “mindset” while I finish my peanuts and last soda to wit: I don’t want 10,000 primers in my home. They are the most volatile and potentially dangerous of the reloading components. I resent having to stockpile them because 1. An illegal combination in restraint of trade has been allowed to develop 2. Millions of my fellow citizens have been compelled to panic buy firearms and ammunition by a corrupt, globalist, elitist, communist administration.

[blackthorn]

MT Gianni said---"The only exception would be if it were "Woman Owned", the latest branding gizmo. There's my two centavos."

And if she were anything other than white, with one leg and crossed eyes they'd probably almost give her carte-blanche!

[megasupermagnum]

That article is a bunch of bologna by someone who barely comprehends what was written by others. He does not have any first hand knowledge of ammuniton manufacturing, and doesn't even seem to have any working knowledge of manufacturing practices in general. I won't claim to be some ammo guru, but even I can see this.

Right away he start blabbering about a "monopoly" of two companies being the source of our problems. Ok, shouldn't take a brainiac to see the fault there, moving on. He also seems to knowingly avoid anything Remington related at first, only bringing it up later. As we all know, Remington was producing ammo up to, and during the beginnings of the shortages. They being bought by Vista outdoors did not cause, and is not continuing to cause any shortage beyond the short window the plant was closed. Not at all because of some monopoly.

He seems completely oblivious to the fact that there are a number of ammunition manufacturers out there. I get that Ohlin and Vista are the two corporations funding the bulk of the factories, but the author also seems to go off on a rant about hurting small businesses and the like. It's hard to find better small businesses than Buffalo Bore, Black hills, Underwood, and plenty more. That's on top of the hundreds of companies that make components for such ammo, Starline, Nosler, Sierra. I do wish more small time primer makers existed.

And what about Hornady? Are they simply irrelevant now? As far as I know they are not owned by Ohlin or Vista, and they are a huge company when it comes to ammo.

The last two paragraphs are the real kicker. A conspiracy by big business? We need big government to set in and subsidize ammo for a smoother supply? Give me a break! What a moron! I don't ever want to read anything by Elle Ekman ever again.

[Ickisrulz]

That article is a bunch of bologna by someone who barely comprehends what was written by others. He does not have any first hand knowledge of ammuniton manufacturing, and doesn't even seem to have any working knowledge of manufacturing practices in general. I won't claim to be some ammo guru, but even I can see this.

Right away he start blabbering about a "monopoly" of two companies being the source of our problems. Ok, shouldn't take a brainiac to see the fault there, moving on. He also seems to knowingly avoid anything Remington related at first, only bringing it up later. As we all know, Remington was producing ammo up to, and during the beginnings of the shortages. They being bought by Vista outdoors did not cause, and is not continuing to cause any shortage beyond the short window the plant was closed. Not at all because of some monopoly.

He seems completely oblivious to the fact that there are a number of ammunition manufacturers out there. I get that Ohlin and Vista are the two corporations funding the bulk of the factories, but the author also seems to go off on a rant about hurting small businesses and the like. It's hard to find better small businesses than Buffalo Bore, Black hills, Underwood, and plenty more. That's on top of the hundreds of companies that make components for such ammo, Starline, Nosler, Sierra. I do wish more small time primer makers existed.

And what about Hornady? Are they simply irrelevant now? As far as I know they are not owned by Ohlin or Vista, and they are a huge company when it comes to ammo.

The last two paragraphs are the real kicker. A conspiracy by big business? We need big government to set in and subsidize ammo for a smoother supply? Give me a break! What a moron! I don't ever want to read anything by Elle Ekman ever again.

Elle Ekman is a woman.

[megasupermagnum]

Elle Ekman is a woman.

Well good for her. Stupidity knows no gender.

[wv109323]

No company under today's business climate wants inventory setting on the shelf. Business leaders set up their business so that production rate are nearly constant. They want just enough employees to keep production at a pre-determined rate.
Constant number of employees, constant quantity of incoming raw materials, no idle equipment, no short term capital investment, that means no ability to meet a surge in business. Business models are "lean and mean". They want production to be sold before it is manufactured. This is the point of maximum profitability. The bottom line means everything to stockholders and corporate leaders for their bonuses.
So the customer has to wait for their product is no big deal. It is cheaper to remain small that to expand to meet a surge in business.

[megasupermagnum]

So I did a short bit of research on this Elle Ekman, and found she is some bigshot with the American Economic Liberties Project.

This article has nothing to do with ammunition. It's just another garbage article from a political hack with a socialist agenda.

P.S. Is Elle short for something? I assumed it was short for Elliot, but apparently not.

[dverna]

She is firing up the ignorant. So many folks "think" they know how a company should be run or how a company is run...but have never had to do it. I was CEO of two manufacturing companies before retiring. No, they had nothing to do with making ammunition and they were small ($20 million), but they were not lemonade stands either. Manufacturing is manufacturing...facilities are facilities, employees and employees, customers are customers, banks are banks....

Some of the comments are not worth getting banned for. Believe what you want to believe...it does not change reality. Hell, one of my friends still has no regrets about voting for Biden...he is not a bad guy...just doesn't know what he doesn't know.

[Shuz]

She is firing up the ignorant. So many folks "think" they know how a company should be run or how a company is run...but have never had to do it. I was CEO of two manufacturing companies before retiring. No, they had nothing to do with making ammunition and they were small ($20 million), but they were not lemonade stands either. Manufacturing is manufacturing...facilities are facilities, employees and employees, customers are customers, banks are banks....

Some of the comments are not worth getting banned for. Believe what you want to believe...it does not change reality. Hell, one of my friends still has no regrets about voting for Biden...he is not a bad guy...just doesn't know what he doesn't know.

Very well put, Don, thanks

[jonp]

The article contradicts itself a number of times. For example, it says that companies cant afford to build and maintain new facilities in a down market then complains companies wont build new ones. It ignores foreign ammunition imports and administration policy like the ban on importing Russian ammunition to fill the current gap.

It was a long article that didnt say much of anything imho

[Handloader109]

It was an almost identical article I read 2 or three years ago, probably about the time of the Bankruptcy. It laments government not being in the ammo business and two large monopolistic companies. Sounds like google and amazon to me. It isn't cheap to buy land, build a plant to manufacture anything. But the real issue with building and ammo plant to expand production by say 10 million rounds a day is where are the raw materials coming from? Most of these plants would make their own brass, but primers? Powder? even the various bullets? We ALL know right now where the bottleneck is, Primers. and after that powder. You need more than just an ammo plant.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[gnappi]

Let me stimulate your imagination and share one “mindset” while I finish my peanuts and last soda to wit: I don’t want 10,000 primers in my home. They are the most volatile and potentially dangerous of the reloading components. I resent having to stockpile them >snip<

In all my years reloading I have had enough supplies on hand to be fully insulated from panic buying... I continued to shoot when many moaned about price gouging and not being able to shoot.

Not having supplies is your choice but primer storage is not dangerous unless your house is already in flames. I know this for certain as I rarely have had less than 20k or so available for 30 to 40 years.

[john.k]

Primers in the original packaging are quite safe.......safer than a lot of the highly flammable,toxic materials used in furnishings,floor coverings,wall panels ...even clothing.........Most dangerous item stored in a home would be the gas bottles often used by plumbers,a/c installers,etc.,next would be gas appliances,next stores of gasoline ,often kept in beverage bottles .

[BunkTheory]

when your unduly elected president once quiped that the most enjoyable part of his honey moon, that he spent in communist russia, was watching people waiting in lines that could be 1 mile or longer,,, to simply wait in line in the hope that the bakery might not run out of their 100 loaves of baked bread ...


what ya freaking expect..

[ulk77more]

what do you do when you cannot find what you need such as primers? Powder? Projectiles? first off dont waste as many, learn to make what you can.
funny situation the other day at the range. man with an AR15 had the 3 way scope and iron sights. he was good to go... he blasted the heck out of his 18 inch target at 30 ft. Dang it looked like swiss cheese. I was impressed. he showed me you turn the thing this way for that type of combat, that way for another WOW he had it going on. I had not even pulled out my rifles as I was waiting for a slot at the range. He moved his target back to 50 yards when the range went cold. I set my 6 inch target at 50 yards. We walked back to the shooting rests, range went hot he shot a couple of clips and only hit his paper 1 time. I hit mine
1" to the right and 2" down off dead center first shot with a .44 1858 C&B replica using 35grn FFFG and a .44 English Kerr projectile with a #10 Remington cap . the other 5 were just as close
We live in a disposable society. There is enough ammunition being made to supply everyone IF people did not waste so much and firearms were used as tools and not toys by so many people. Maybe I am old fashioned....

[ulk77more]

things appear harder then they actually are. lack of confidence in ones self usually limit what one does. heck, for example if primers are a problem, for example---look at the CVA electra it uses a 9v battery, if needed I can figure out Black Powder whittle out a projectile and dang it if I couldnt get me some food.
here is a thought..design you own cartridge, figure out how to modify existing firearms to utilize your new cartridge. and start your own business.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Vituperative......

[Cosmic_Charlie]

She hit the nail on the head when she sighted corporate consolidation as a major problem. Look at what it has done to our media. The antitrust protections put in place after the great depression have been whittled away over time and we are really paying the price now.

[LORH1]

I don't know how to cast boolits...yet!
Guess I better learn.
I've been making my own primers for about 6 months with a hit & miss success rate (50%-96%).
I wonder if any regular Joe Blow has come up with a way to make their own brass and form it into case's?
Or take used, beat up brass and remake it into "new", useable cases, other than going through the reloading process.
That process doesn't make mangled brass into new brass, I mean actually melting it down and reforming it into real, new brass.

[JSnover]

I don't know how to cast boolits...yet!
Guess I better learn.
I've been making my own primers for about 6 months with a hit & miss success rate (50%-96%).
I wonder if any regular Joe Blow has come up with a way to make their own brass and form it into case's?
Or take used, beat up brass and remake it into "new", useable cases, other than going through the reloading process.
That process doesn't make mangled brass into new brass, I mean actually melting it down and reforming it into real, new brass.
Just buy some. Prices might be horrible and it may take some time before you can get it but if anyone thinks now is the time to start prepping, there are a hundred more productive ways to spend that time, especially if you've never smelted, formed, or machined anything before.

[trebor44]

The information may be "new" to some but it really is rather old. The last two paragraphs are perhaps the most relevant. Monopolies disguised as a variety of "investment" schemes are, have been and will be forever prevalent in the financial world! If you have "investments", then you would/will have a source to generate monopolies. There are examples in every aspect of daily existence of working monopolies that benefit the 'investors' at the expense of consumers and users! Think about pouring milk down the gutters to keep the price higher etc. etc. The number of these events is infinite! It's not a government thing or a business thing, it is just being 'human'!