How Hard is it to Cut a Reloading Die

[Rfeustel]

Noob question: I need to cut a reloading die to make a push through die for a project. I have a bandsaw from Little Machine Shop. Do I need a special blade? Can I cut a die without heating it?

My goal is to get a cheap die off eBay and cut it. Probably a Lee.

Thought I’d ask before ruining a blade.

Thank you

[bangerjim]

You did not mentioned the brand of die, just "probably Lee"

Test: If a metal file skates across it's surface, your teeny little band saw will be of little use against hardened steel! If me, I would use one of my solid carbide slitting saw in my vertical milling machine.

Test it and see.

[para45lda]

I used an abrasive cutoff wheel in my chop saw

[Winger Ed.]

They're harder than Chinese Algebra.

You'll need something like a cut off wheel on a high speed grinder.
One that spins up around 8,000 rpm or so.

[Rfeustel]

Oh boy I’m glad I asked. Thanks guys!

[Traffer]

What other kinds of tools do you have? If you can spin it (even very slowly) by attaching something to the axis then putting it in a drill you can cut it with an angle grinder or even a Dremel type tool with a cut off blade.
Before I had a lathe, I would figure out ways of attaching larger diameter stuff to something to spin it in the drill. Even jamming a dowel in the hole will work if you don't spin it very fast.

[Rfeustel]

That’s ingenuitive Traffer. I have a drill press. I also have a chop saw and a Milwaukee grinder that goes 8500. I think I’ll get a cutoff wheel for the chop saw first ($10), if that doesn’t work try the hand grinder and vise method.

[GregLaROCHE]

What are your plans for it after cutting it?

[Rfeustel]

What are your plans for it after cutting it?

Greg - I got suggestions from another post to create a push through from a 30-30 to start the process and converting .40 S&W into 8mm Nambu. I’ll cut the die (at least try to), wet grind the burrs and marks (let’s see how that works) then get (as suggested) a lee bullet sizer “punch” or maybe try to have one made that pushes the 40SW through that gets close to the 30-30 diameter.

[Winger Ed.]

a Milwaukee grinder that goes 8500.

That would be my weapon of choice.

However; If ya don't know already--- The wheels are very brittle. You'll want to dress accordingly.
Heavy gloves, jacket, full face shield, and work around the die body without letting the disc go deeper than the outside wall thickness.

A shattered 6" angle grinder disc is the only tool I've ever used that sent me to the Emergency Room.
This isn't me, but I kept a similar picture in my shop to show the kids that wanted to borrow a angle grinder and disc--
"to do something real quick", and didn't have time to put on safety equipment.

That, and pointing at the 1/2 of a disc stuck in the shop's ceiling was always enough to show them the error of their ways.

[Rfeustel]

Holy Moly winger. Wow. Thank you for sharing that.

[country gent]

What might get you thru is cut a ring around the die with the grinder about 1/8" deep this should get you thru the hardened case then use the saw. It wont remove the case inside but the blade will do better from the soft thru the hard.But slow the speed way down around 75 sfm and go slow. also try to keep 4-6 teeth in contact with the work.

[Char-Gar]

Well, it depends. Depends on which die in a set and what make. I have chucked up many dies in my lath to modify them and this is what I have found. I am talking RCBS, Lyman and CH dies here.

The sizing dies are quite hard but can be cut with a carbide bit. The others (expanding and seating) cut like butter.

[Gewehr-Guy]

I have cut a very hard die with a hacksaw and a Rem-Grit blade. It is a cable blade coated with carbide grit. Was very slow going,and left a wide kerf. Not sure if they are even made anymore.

[gunther]

Second Gewehr-Guy's post. I used a Rem Grit rod blade in a hacksaw to crenelate a grade 8 nut that would eat cut off disc blades. It also trimmed a RCBS sizer die for another project. If you can find one, buy it

[Winger Ed.]

Holy Moly winger. Wow. Thank you for sharing that.

I tell everybody my stories of shattered wheels when ever I can fit them into the conversation.
I hope it helps someone keep from getting hurt.

The one that let go and stuck in my shop ceiling hit my leather jacket dead in my chest first,
then climbed up, leaving a trench in my full face shield, then went on up and stuck in a 12' high sheet rock ceiling

[BP Dave]

To the OP, most dies I've cut are very hard all the way through. I don't think your saw will cut it and you could easily wreck a blade. I suggest some kind of abrasive wheel--angle grinder probably makes the most sense, but you could do it on a bench grinder. Third choice might be a Dremel with a cutoff blade. There are some dies I have encountered--might have been Hornady or maybe it was Lee--that had a hard surface but were much softer on the inside--you might be able to cut that on your saw after getting through the surface treatment.

To Ed Winger--Ah geez. I always wear safety glasses, but I gotta get a full face shield. That photo's gonna haunt me.

[Winger Ed.]

To Ed Winger--Ah geez. I always wear safety glasses, but I gotta get a full face shield. That photo's gonna haunt me.

Hmm,, You definitely don't want to do a quickie search for 'Angle grinder cut off wheel accidents',
and then click 'images' up at the top. :bigsmyl2:

It shows cut off fingers, big giant gash/cuts, and a few guys getting loaded into helicopter ambulances.

[country gent]

Always when mounting a new wheel hang it on a screw driver ans lightly tap it, if it rings your good a thud and the wheel is cracked throw it away or take it back. cutoff whelks are dangerous not just from the lack of thickness support but as the piece heats it pinches the sides of the wheel.

A grinder injury is worse than a cut as the meat is removed and the heat seals the surface it can take a long time to heal be careful.

[fiberoptik]

That picture hurts me just looking at it![emoji24][emoji24]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bangerjim]

That would be my weapon of choice.

However; If ya don't know already--- The wheels are very brittle. You'll want to dress accordingly.
Heavy gloves, jacket, full face shield, and work around the die body without letting the disc go deeper than the outside wall thickness.

A shattered 6" angle grinder disc is the only tool I've ever used that sent me to the Emergency Room.
This isn't me, but I kept a similar picture in my shop to show the kids that wanted to borrow a angle grinder and disc--
"to do something real quick", and didn't have time to put on safety equipment.

That, and pointing at the 1/2 of a disc stuck in the shop's ceiling was always enough to show them the error of their ways.

Exactly why I NEVER use angle "grinders" with cut-off wheels!!!!!! Bad tool combo! Only cut-off I use is my 14" ridged metal chop saw with a thick blade. It has never ever shattered. Those little skinny hand-held "grinder" (notice the name-sake!!!!!) blade-things are an accident looking for a place to happen (see picture)!

Your hands/arms/body are not rigid enough to prevent binding and torquing of the skinny very brittle little blade in the work.....and it shatters. Avoid angle grinders with thin cut-off blades. They are made for GRINDING and SANDING weld joints/body work smooth..........not cutting-off stock.

Whatever tool you do use............ALWAYS wear safety glasses and a FULL face shield.

[Rfeustel]

Bejeesus. Me. Scared out of.

I will for now own keep my tools to the stated name. A grinder will be used for grinding. A saw for cutting. A drill press will not be used as a lathe.

I really, really want to thank everyone on this post.

[bangerjim]

Bejeesus. Me. Scared out of.

I will for now own keep my tools to the stated name. A grinder will be used for grinding. A saw for cutting. A drill press will not be used as a lathe.

I really, really want to thank everyone on this post.

A very wise decision, my friend. Countless people have lost eyes, fingers, arms, and lives using a tool designed for one purpose for another WRONG purpose!

If you REEEEEEELY want it cut, take it to a professional machine shop who will have correct tools. But there probably goes your "cheap" terminology used in your opening post.

[DougGuy]

Heh y'all would NEVER make it on a pipe crew. They would laugh you right on out the gate talking about wanting a 14" cutoff saw b/c you are scared of a little 4" angle grinder and cutoff wheels. I have used THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of cutoff wheels in a DeWalt angle grinder. How you going to cut 12" schedule 10 stainless in position with a chop saw? How are you going to miter a fitting to make a custom fit? You certainly won't do hi purity stainless with a chop saw.

As far as cutting a Lee die with a cutoff wheel, done properly, done CAREFULLY with gloves and eye/face PPE it's easily done and does a very neat, precise job.

[Winger Ed.]

Heh y'all would NEVER make it on a pipe crew. .

I've only gone through a couple hundred cut off discs over the years, but it didn't take long for them to earn my respect.
I learned to be careful, not use the 'el cheapos', and run off any onlookers in the shop.

I can't remember the name of the company, but I always ordered the ones made in Germany.
They did the best job, lasted the longest, and had the fewest 'incidents'.

[Rfeustel]

I hereby submit my man card to this post.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Rfeustel,

If you want to shorten a die, simply put it in a lathe & turn it with a carbide cutter.
If you need to change the inside, that's more tricky.
A straight through bullet sizer could be polished if you don't need to go very far,
but the farther you go (diameter) the bore will get egg shaped.

AntiqueSledMan.

[DocSavage]

My advice find a local machine shop tell them what you want done and pay them for their services. They'll have the right tools and equipment to do the job accurately and safely

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I used a HF 14" chop saw with metal cutoff blade to cut a Pacific brand 280rem FL size die (to be used to size annealed brass 5.7 cases for jackets for swaging 30 cal bullets). I setup the chop saw outside, on a picnic table and made a redneck water cooled setup with a garden hose. I'd cut a little, cool off the die, cut a little more, cool off the die...repeated until I was through. When Cutting hardened dies, you don't want to overheat the metal.

[bangerjim]

Heh y'all would NEVER make it on a pipe crew. They would laugh you right on out the gate talking about wanting a 14" cutoff saw b/c you are scared of a little 4" angle grinder and cutoff wheels. I have used THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of cutoff wheels in a DeWalt angle grinder. How you going to cut 12" schedule 10 stainless in position with a chop saw? How are you going to miter a fitting to make a custom fit? You certainly won't do hi purity stainless with a chop saw.

As far as cutting a Lee die with a cutoff wheel, done properly, done CAREFULLY with gloves and eye/face PPE it's easily done and does a very neat, precise job.

But we are NOT on at pipe crew and many on here have absolute ZERO experience with cut-off wheels and grinders.

You might, but most do not!!!!!!!

Experienced pipe fitters are one story.........casual casters with no tools and no experience is a totally different & dangerous story.

Please do not compare them and lead the innocent inexperienced on here down a dangerous rabbit hole from which there is no return.

[imashooter2]

That would be my weapon of choice.

However; If ya don't know already--- The wheels are very brittle. You'll want to dress accordingly.
Heavy gloves, jacket, full face shield, and work around the die body without letting the disc go deeper than the outside wall thickness.

A shattered 6" angle grinder disc is the only tool I've ever used that sent me to the Emergency Room.
This isn't me, but I kept a similar picture in my shop to show the kids that wanted to borrow a angle grinder and disc--
"to do something real quick", and didn't have time to put on safety equipment.

That, and pointing at the 1/2 of a disc stuck in the shop's ceiling was always enough to show them the error of their ways.

My first job at the little machine shop I started in was cleaning a 30 year man's thumb out of the 6 inch belt sander. A lesson well learned. I still have the full set of fingers.

[n.h.schmidt]

Why not heat the die red hot? I have done so several times. They are easy to cut after that. You can do what you want and re-harden when you are ready.

[aap2]

Why not heat the die red hot? I have done so several times. They are easy to cut after that. You can do what you want and re-harden when you are ready.

I am not an expert, but many dies are very hard and in my opinion not suitable for cutting with a grinder blade tool. I just shortened a sizing die that was nearly glass hard by heating it to cherry-red and letting it air cool. Thus annealed, I cut it easily to the required length with standard tools. I honed the interior slightly without really enlarging the bore and that was that. I considered rehardening the die but found this unnecessary since it was a steel die used with lubed cases. Just what works for me; good luck

[DougGuy]

I can't remember the name of the company, but I always ordered the ones made in Germany.
They did the best job, lasted the longest, and had the fewest 'incidents'.

With cutoff wheels you usually get EXACTLY what you pay for. I don't buy cheap ones because they are only $4 more for a box of 100 than the good brand is for a box of 50. I like to go to youtube and watch some of the "tests" people have done, it's quite informative and pretty accurate. I buy the wheels that delivered the best results and lasted the longest.

Let me edit this post and say that almost ALL of my positive experience with cutoff wheels has been with the .045" thick wheels. .040" wheels make a neat cut but the attrition rate is high.

EXTREME CAUTION AND DILIGENCE IS REQUIRED with 1/16" wheels! These wheels will grab and jerk the grinder uncontrollably, I do NOT like to use them and DO NOT recommend them for this reason.

[Bmi48219]

I also have a chop saw and a Milwaukee grinder that goes 8500.

Don’t think the chop saw will spin fast enough, or accept a thin enough blade. The ‘Metabo’ type right angle grinder type tool will do both. A 4 inch wafer (thin) wheel works the best. As someone else said the heat from cutting (really abrading) will soften the steel. I cut a SDB die down with mine. On top of the guard and all you PPE, set your cut up to eliminate any flex of the cutting disc. The blade will shatter if you flex it too much.

DISCLAIMER- the following is for entertainment use only! Proceed at your own risk.
I drilled a hole in a 4x4” that the die fit in tight. Then ran the blade along the top of 4x4 through the die. The cut was 1/2 mill out of square but a fine metal file trued it up pretty easy.

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[Petander]

I don't touch grinders any more.

I had small and big ones for normal hobby/ car / household use for decades.

One day I was cutting a metal tube (for Sauna chimney) and the big grinder just jumped off my hands, flew against a wall -and bounced to my belly. It then fell on the floor, still running.

First thing I thought "I'm dead". I then pulled the cord and took a look at my belly... lots of blood but it looked only scratches and that's what it was, circular scratches near my belly button. I went to a med check anyway... feeling very lucky when they picked som minor metal/who knows what pieces from my skin.

The grinder brand was Gern and the kill switch was not working... I admit I didn't check the function at that time before starting to work.

Those half a dozen white circular 3-4" scars are here to remind me to take precautions... I was wearing a leather vest, doc said that a shirt would have grabbed the (at that point most probably broken) blade and...

Please excuse me for the horror story but be careful out there with power tools. I don"t even change my winter wheels any more, there are professionals who do it better - and safe.

[Winger Ed.]

the kill switch was not working... I admit I didn't check the function at that time before starting to work..

At the shop, we'd wear out an angle grinder every couple months.
We did a lot of grinding, cutting, and wire wheel scrubbing with them.
To save time changing discs & wheels, I kept 4-5 of them on hand.

Guys would complain I always ordered the ones that didn't have the trigger lock/button feature,
and they got tired and hand/finger cramps from having to hold the trigger.
I always told 'em if they were that tired, don't use it.

I remember a story from one of the body shops where years before; a fella was using a big grinder with a broken trigger.
Not a small angle grinder, but one of the really big, hand held ones.
Somebody by passed it and it ran constantly when ya plugged it in.
Yep.... It 'bucked', hit him low in the chest, and ripped all his innards out, killing him.

[Bloodman14]

I believe the German wheels are the "Pferd" brand. Having spent 20 years in the industrial construction field, I can tell you all kinds of stories, but will defer. Get the right tool for the job, and don't take shortcuts, EVER!!

[Three44s]

I will not buy any disc grinders without a trigger now and if you are too tired to pull a trigger switch you do not have any business operating one in the first place.

Three44s

[Buzz Krumhunger]

I think I’d take it to a machinist to see if he’d cut it.

[Traffer]

Good greif....It's super easy. Takes about 2 minutes. Get the thing to spin in something and take an angle grinder with a thin blade and grind it off. You can do it in your sleep. If yor are skert, put on a grinding shield.

[marshall623]

That would be my weapon of choice.

However; If ya don't know already--- The wheels are very brittle. You'll want to dress accordingly.
Heavy gloves, jacket, full face shield, and work around the die body without letting the disc go deeper than the outside wall thickness.

A shattered 6" angle grinder disc is the only tool I've ever used that sent me to the Emergency Room.
This isn't me, but I kept a similar picture in my shop to show the kids that wanted to borrow a angle grinder and disc--
"to do something real quick", and didn't have time to put on safety equipment.

That, and pointing at the 1/2 of a disc stuck in the shop's ceiling was always enough to show them the error of their ways.A fellow in Virginia about 8 years ago was killed when a cut off wheel shattered and send part of it into his upper chest . Those things are no joke and will hurt you quick , I've had a couple shatter on me and it will make you quickly reevaluate what you are doing with that thing . Back to the subject of the die I 've cut one down with a Porta band saw , fine tooth blade and slow on the speed . If you go the cut off wheel route , just go slow with the pressure you put on it .

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Traffer]

Are we talking about the same grinders here folks? I am speaking of a Harbor Freight 4.5" angle grinder. with a steel guard half way around it...
I have used them for a long time ...broken many blades... Cannot imagine a chunk of wheel from one of these Possibly going through the fabric of a shirt much less lodging in someone's chest.
Am I living in a different dimension here or what?
Until now I never HEARD of a 4.5" angle grinder hurting anyone ....I could see having it slice a finger or something but even then I have had wheels break they didn't fly out the way people are describing here.
Help me understand

[Traffer]

I think I’d take it to a machinist to see if he’d cut it.

You could buy the proper die for less than a machinist would charge to cut it.

[Traffer]

About 5 years ago I put out a question for anyone who would be willing to give me old dies for me to modify in my endeavor to reload 22lr. Several kind folks sent me some. I have cut ground drilled and TAPPED them. With no tools other than an angle grinder and a drill press. NO PROBLEM.
I had one that was particularly hard but still cut easily with an angle grinder. Maybe I am reeeeeeeeaaly lucky ...but judging by how I see many other people using them....It is not an abberation.

[Winger Ed.]

Are we talking about the same grinders here folks? I am speaking of a Harbor Freight 4.5" angle grinder. with a steel guard half way around it...

It's real common to remove the guard and run a 6" wheel.
That's where ya get into trouble if you're not REAL careful.

And the cheap big box store ones are less flexible,
and more prone to shatter than the good ones from a welding supply place.

[brassrat]

I cut a Lyman M die body down with a vice and a sawzall. No problems

[garandsrus]

The M die body is not hardened. It never touches the brass case.

[brassrat]

Oh well, maybe the next guy will have one :razz:

[mfraser264]

I'd tend to say the Lee dies are case hardened and not tool steel. Case hardening is inexpensive and only penetrates the skin of the part about .001"-.002". Use a file to cut through the outer skin.

Have drilled vent holes in RCBS and Redding dies and they did not appear to be tool steel. Drilled easily once the outer skin was pierced.

[gnappi]

I've done it once with a Dremel and cutoff disk. As it happens I maybe cutting a 9mm Taper crimp seat die to crimp my 9x25. More to come on that.

[Rapier]

Actually you can lock up a die body after removing everything, in a Bridgeport and cut the top off with a solid carbide end mill. I have made several straight wall sizer dies for my wildcats using that method to remove the shoulder and necks of sizer dies. You chamfer the top cut and done. Easy and safe.

[gnappi]

I've done it once with a Dremel and cutoff disk. As it happens I maybe cutting a 9mm Taper crimp seat die to crimp my 9x25. More to come on that.

I wound up grinding it with my bench grinder to length and reaming it out so the 9x25 shoulder would fit... with the results I expected... sheared off powder coated lead and a great crimp, but unusable as it is :-(

[Baltimoreed]

I’ve ground them down on my belt sander before. Can’t imagine that a chop saw wouldn’t cut one.

[indian joe]

Heh y'all would NEVER make it on a pipe crew. They would laugh you right on out the gate talking about wanting a 14" cutoff saw b/c you are scared of a little 4" angle grinder and cutoff wheels. I have used THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of cutoff wheels in a DeWalt angle grinder. How you going to cut 12" schedule 10 stainless in position with a chop saw? How are you going to miter a fitting to make a custom fit? You certainly won't do hi purity stainless with a chop saw.

As far as cutting a Lee die with a cutoff wheel, done properly, done CAREFULLY with gloves and eye/face PPE it's easily done and does a very neat, precise job.

hooray for some common sense - cutoff discs dont break when they used right - **** happens from poor operator - cutting stuff thats under tension and it jams - cant hold the tool straight - ham fisted - push it in till the machine stalls etc .

[Tar Heel]

I ground off 50 thou on a Lee 38-40 size die with a grinding wheel. I am a machinist now! Looks like crap but hey, it works. :smile:

[indian joe]

I cut a Lyman M die body down with a vice and a sawzall. No problems

I have cut a couple LEE dies down - could not touch them with lathe tools at all - spun in the chuck and cut with a small grinder with a skinny cutoff wheel.

[Herb in Pa]

Carbide end mill in a milling machine....some are harder than woodpecker lips

[Bmi48219]

Needed to shorten a Dillon SDB .32 die to crimp .30 carbine.
I Drilled a hole in a 4x4 with a wood spade bit and wrapped the die in tape so it fit snug.
Cut it off flush with the wood it was seated in and lightly dressed with a file as cut was maybe 1 degree off square.
Safety glasses, leather gloves of course. Can’t say for sure if the die was hardened steel but it cut & filed with no problem.
I drilled the bored hole so I could lay the cutting disc on the wood surface and plunge cut through the die in one pass.


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[ipopum]

Good info here. Hope it will save some pain.