Quickload and cast bullets

[Wolfdog91]

Ok so I've been told I need to be careful with pressure when it come to cast boolits. Well my buddy hooked me up with this Quick load program. With is I can graph what my pressures and what not would look like with different powders bullets ect.my question is welll, how exactly would I go about using this for casting ?

[Hanzy4200]

Unless I'm missing something, it would seem that would be over complicating things. Unless you are loading wildcat calibers, why not simply buy a cast bullet manual and stick to proven data? This Lyman manual is cheap, and filled with tons of excellent data. 100% cast bullet loads.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010248522

[Wolfdog91]

Unless I'm missing something, it would seem that would be over complicating things. Unless you are loading wildcat calibers, why not simply buy a cast bullet manual and stick to proven data? This Lyman manual is cheap, and filled with tons of excellent data. 100% cast bullet loads.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010248522

I have it, read through it a few times buuuuut well it's just not super helpful for what I'm trying to do. Like most of my casting is being done for my AR. The book basically just says yeah that's not gonna work even though I've got it working. I'm going off the beaten path basically.

[Savvy Jack]

If the bullet you want is not in that system, you have to create your own bullets. I used QL for the 44-40 when I firststarted out trying to gather data. I learned that, although QL used CIP for the 44-40, nothing came even close to the actually pressure testing I did. Go over to https://forum.accurateshooter.com/forums/reloading-forum-all-calibers.2/ , guys there use it, but I don't trust it.

[Petander]

Cast or not I like Quick Load.I 've been using Quick Load for many years and find it very helpful. You want to use a chrono and common sense with it.

There are so many cast bullets with no "official" data, you can build your bullet and load and then put it all into the program. Change OAL, powder, charge, everything. Before you fire a single round.

I just confirmed a 470 NE load today, no data for a cast 325 grain bullet. But when I entered it in QL , everything matched so I know it's around 2000 bar.

https://i.postimg.cc/5ttfMt8d/IMG-20211020-WA0002.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

Remember that QL is only an estimate, not an actual measurement. How accurate that estimate will be depends on the input of correct data.....as much data as you can put in. As with any computor program; garbage in equals garbage out.

As with Savvy Jack, I have found QL "estimates" to be close, kind of close and way off to my pressure measurements. QL does not factor in lot to lot variation of components, barrel wear (particularly throat wear), bore fouling, etc. QL also does not factor in the probable ES of the pressure of a given load. Not saying QL is not a useful tool, just saying it should be used with caution and all loads should be worked up to and not just take QLs "word" for it. As mentioned by Petander, you want to use a chronograph and common sense with it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wolfdog,
I like reading your posts, you always come up with good questions. BUT, I am curious about this one, how do you think QL will help you load castboolits for an AR ?

[Wolfdog91]

Wolfdog,
I like reading your posts, you always come up with good questions. BUT, I am curious about this one, how do you think QL will help you load castboolits for an AR ?

Well here's the situation I reckon you'll call it. Dude to the shortage I simply cannot just go get what ever powder I want right. I got the powders I bought for this little project and that's it for right now. I'm also in basically unknown territory as far as cast and AR's ( which is a late part of the fun for me). So with that being said I was told from the git go I NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF MY PRESSURE WITH CAST. Now the deal is though I have no real clue what I'm supposed to be looking for as far a s pressure like. Like if quick load graphs some stuff and it's says " hay with this mix your looking at having 3000psi" what I'm trying to figure out is what that means. Like if I have a boolits of such and such alloy bhn ect is there a certain pressure that's detrimental to them ?
Now another thing I like about this program is say I find out a certain powder gives me full functionality accuracy ect out of my gas gun. I can graph all that out and see "generally" what I'm looking at.
Say 3000psi is what my gun needs to work the bolt fully lock it too the rear ect. If that's a criteria for powder selection the program could save me alot of material " I needed at least 3500 psi to work my bolt ,graph shows that this power wouldn't get to half of that no reason to mess with that"

I don't want something I can just plug numbers into and it goes " beep boop Use this load and y'all have the best thing ever" nope no interest in that.

[Wolfdog91]

Another thing is say someone can tell me say " this alloy cannot be pushed past a certain pressure" ok cool with quick load I can be alot safer graphing out what I use as far as powder charges on different powder. Again don't want specifics or exacts but general areas.
And yeas I know there's no substitute for boots on the ground but at the same time that can be said for good recon and study right ? I have a crony and use it religiously in my reloading but still

[Wolfdog91]

Which caliber, bullet and powder you want to use?

Bit sure what's next honestly haven't had time to do any new videos on but so far this is what I got going


https://youtu.be/bDV6dfY1aZs

[P Flados]

I really like Quickload (QL). I have used it with a chrono and in most non-revolver guns the results were very close to the prediction.

Now as far as pressure and cast in an AR, I found that I could use my range scrap 0.358" ASBB HF red 180s and 200s at full pressure in my 357AR (ballistic twin to the 350L). The gun likes hot loads. Some of the best shooting ammo I loaded was too hot, I was getting primer piercing issues and calculated pressures over 55,000 psi.

In a later gun, I found that uncoated gas checks are your best bet in an AR. As the base of a PC coated bullet travels past the gas port of an AR, the gas cuts through the PC into the lead. I feel the damage to the bullet is not consistent from shot to shot and I am convinced it has a negative impact on accuracy.

[Wolfdog91]

What is the twist rate of the barrel. Did you crimp the rounds. OAL of the round. Did you do a chamber cast? Did you size the bullet?

1:7 I show and explain everything else here


https://youtu.be/OuOltEJejNw

[Wolfdog91]

And I died the to .225 I think....either that or .226 can't remember, but again I've documented everything I've don't so far in my little video series. It's been pretty fun so far lol

[mehavey]

With QL and cast, I put in actual case volume and reduce the shot start pressure 50% as initial estimate.
Then I put a bullet downrange over a chronograph to get actual velocity at initial predicted pressure ranges
- 14,000 psi pure lead plain base
- 18-20,000 30-to-1 plain base
- 28,000 #2 plain base
- 35,000 #2 gas-checked

Adjust the burn rate (Ba) to match at that temperature to get best estimate of actual pressure....

... and I'm off to the races for other loads (up or down) with that bullet/powder combo.
-

[Wolfdog91]

The COL doesn't sound correct it is to short. Do a chamber cast with cerrosafe. (Measure with a micrometer) For the twist rate of the barrel try a heavier bullet 62 gr to 77 gr.

I use CBTO not COAL

[mehavey]

QuickLoad uses OAL (not CBTO)...
When combined with bullet length, it establishes seated shank depth --> thereby calculating usable ignition/burn volume --> pressure curve --> velocity
Keep that in mind.

[Wolfdog91]

QuickLoad uses OAL (not CBTO)...
When combined with bullet length, it establishes seated shank depth --> thereby calculating usable ignition/burn volume --> pressure curve --> velocity
Keep that in mind.

Noted. I'm still trying to wrap my hard around it and get it completely updated. I can get a COAL easy enough I just need to find my dummy gauges. Actually I might just have it in my notes

[mehavey]

You have digital calipers (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=digital+caliper) ? (I assume so if you're measuring ogive distances)
(If not, that's the fourth most useful tool right after (1) hammer, (2) screwdriver, (3) drill....
:bigsmyl2:

[Wolfdog91]

The COL doesn't sound correct it is to short. Do a chamber cast with cerrosafe. (Measure with a micrometer) For the twist rate of the barrel try a heavier bullet 62 gr to 77 gr.

Just checked and it's around 2.145"

[mehavey]

Just for calibration: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?368459-223-cast-bullets-w-ar15&p=4472544&viewfull=1#post4472544

[Larry Gibson]

Wolfdog91

When and if you try those loads at longer ranges than 49/50 yards don't be surprised if you get very, very poor accuracy. I seriously doubt you will get linear expansion at 100 yards. In your 7" twist barrel that cast bullet at 2400 fps is pushing a lot of RPM, way over the threshold. You may not believe the RPM Threshold is real but test that 2400+ load at 100 yards and find out.

To be honest, a 2 1/2" five shot group at 49/50 yards from the bench with that rifle may be relatively "fast" but the precision is pretty bad. That "flyer" you discounted was telling you something.

However, if all your going to shoot is 49/50 yards then the accuracy may be "good enough'.

[Wolfdog91]

You have digital calipers (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=digital+caliper) ? (I assume so if you're measuring ogive distances)
(If not, that's the fourth most useful tool right after (1) hammer, (2) screwdriver, (3) drill....
:bigsmyl2:

Yep digital all the way. Actually loading some stuff up for a little range trip. Should be fun lol

[Wolfdog91]

Wolfdog91

When and if you try those loads at longer ranges than 49/50 yards don't be surprised if you get very, very poor accuracy. I seriously doubt you will get linear expansion at 100 yards. In your 7" twist barrel that cast bullet at 2400 fps is pushing a lot of RPM, way over the threshold. You may not believe the RPM Threshold is real but test that 2400+ load at 100 yards and find out.

To be honest, a 2 1/2" five shot group at 49/50 yards from the bench with that rifle may be relatively "fast" but the precision is pretty bad. That "flyer" you discounted was telling you something.

However, if all your going to shoot is 49/50 yards then the accuracy may be "good enough'.

Actually my very best group was 1.3" @50 and was only doing 2150fps. That's the one I'm working on currently. Actually I'm loading up 30 rn to do some 10rd groups to see what happens

[mehavey]

1.3" @50 and was only doing 2150fps.That's w/ cast?
(What bullet/what load?)

[mehavey]

K... (my bad)
I'll note that 1.5 (minus minus) MOA w/ cast 223 is not (too) difficult
and at reasonable 2,500 fps or so.

I guess I ought to ask about lube used (hopefully not in the you-tube as I can't get to it tight now)

[mdi]

I don't reload cast for an AR so I can't comment on that, but I have run cast in my Garand several times and many cast for my .223 single shot rifle. No problems. One major problem I've seen in casting, reloading and shooting is newer reloaders listen to too many opinions, get confused, and overthink simple matters. K.I.S.S.!

[Wolfdog91]

That's w/ cast?
(What bullet/what load?)

Yes sir .
Lee.224r 55gr
100% clipon wheel weight alloy double water qunched. Sized to .225 gas checked 20-21 bhn gas checked powder coated with smokes traffic purple baked on @ 375 degress for 20min. Weight sperated 56.1-56.5 grains. Cci no400 primer lake city 5.56 brass head stamps 2012-2018.
Four thousands shoulder bump measure with Hornady bump gauge
Was running 2.005" CBTO but I just relaxed I added 0.0010" instead of substracting it to give me my 10 thousands jump. Any how 1.985" is going to be my new CBTO. And 18.2 grains of accurate 2015 gave me a average of 2150 fps 31.60 standard deviation and a four shot group ( pulled a bullet and couldn't do a five ,searching dept too long) of 1.3540"

[Wolfdog91]

I don't reload cast for an AR so I can't comment on that, but I have run cast in my Garand several times and many cast for my .223 single shot rifle. No problems. One major problem I've seen in casting, reloading and shooting is newer reloaders listen to too many opinions, get confused, and overthink simple matters. K.I.S.S.!

Eeeeegh I've taken bits and bobs from everyone. Fclass shooters ,regular bench rest, 3gun shooters, basic casters,advanced casters long range hunters, guys who are making big batches with good average results ect. I try to absorb all of that take what I feel would help experiment with it . It's helped me alot more. Woks better for my brain then kiss honestly

[tankgunner59]

I can't speak for all calibers, bullets etc... But I have a good amount of IMR 8208XBR and wanted to try it with my 150 grain cast bullet for my Winchester 30-30. I sent a message to Hodgdon and received a reply that I can use that powder and to use the start load data for 150 grain j-word bullet from the Hornady 9th Edition. One disclaimer, I use PCed cast bullets.