Help ID An Old Mold

[Andylit]

I am trying to identify a steel pliers type conical bullet mold (see attached). The diameter comes in right at 0.60 and the slug is 450 grains.

The part that throws me is the shape of the mold blocks. I've not seen this before. And, the manufacture quality is very good, better than most of the molds I see from the time just around the CW. The only mark is "63" with a shield that is reminiscent of the red white and blue American imagery popular in the post-CW era.

Any help is appreciated.

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[bedbugbilly]

Over the years, I have owned several "what is it" molds - well made but not the rather unique style of yours. During the Civil War, both side purchased rifled and smoothbore muskets from various European countries. While the U.S. models and Enfields utilized hollow base Minie Balls, not all European rifled muskets did. We are used to seeing .54, .58/.577 and .69 hollow based Minies associated with the common muskets used - i.e. U.S. Models, British Enfield and Purchased European rifles such as the .54 caliber Ausrtrian Lorenz Rifles.

Many of the foreign purchased muskets were odd calibers however. I had on mold that cast a solid base Conical that measured .720. It was believed to be for a particular Belgium model rifled musket. The other mold I had cast, IIRC, a solid based conical that cast around .640 - I never did figure that one out.

Your mold could be for the Belgian M-1844/60 Piedmontese Rifled Musket. In the 60 years of collecting Civil War items and weapons, I believe I have only seen a couple of these rifles and to be honest, the Belgium models never interested me - a number of first person accounts of soldiers who were in regiments that were issued Belgium Muskets indicated that they pretty much hated them as they were heavy, not that accurate and basically clumsy to handle - they longed to be able to pick up a .58 1861 Springfield or Contractor made or a good Enfield.

While not 100% - your mold may be for a Belgium 1844 60 caliber Piedmont or a similar model in 60 caliber - and bear in mind that the rifle bores could vary a bit in size among the same model. Also keep in mind that many of the various European guns purchased for use in the war were later sold as surplus to places like Bannermans - so the mold could be "post-war" - made and sold to cast for a surplus musket.

Today, many have a hard time visualizing that there were thousands of military muskets, rifles, pistols, carbines, etc. that were sold off as surplus, but the war was over and the war also had to be paid for. I had a friend who visited the location of Bannermans on Bannermans Island. He gave me a 1884 45-70 barrel with the trapdoor action that he picked up from one of the crumbling cement piers on the island. When Bannerman's men poured the cement piers, they had so many surplus guns and parts that the had bought pennies on the dollar that they used 45-70 barrels as "re-rod" when they poured the cement piers.

If your mold isn't for a Belgium 1844 Piedmont in .60 caliber - I hope someone can make a positive ID for you - a very interesting mold - different from what you normally find and looks to be well made. Good luck and thanks for sharing!

[Andylit]

Thank you. The Bannerman's story makes me just a little bit ill. If only......

[Dutchman]

The bullet shape is similar to this one from a Dixie mold. As I recall (very faulty!) Turner Kirkland copied known bullets for civil war carbines. Paper cartridges. This one is .515".

That mold you're showing is beautifully made.

https://images15.fotki.com/v1211/photos/4/28344/9430776/DSCF3972d-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/bullet-casting/dscf3972d.html)

https://images46.fotki.com/v297/photos/4/28344/9430776/DSCF3968d-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/bullet-casting/dscf3968d.html)

[Andylit]

UPDATE: I grabbed the calipers again. It is only the base that is exactly 0.600. Moving up past the lowest grease groove the diameter is coming in between .5885-.5915

Can we call it a .59 caliber?

[Andylit]

The bullet shape is similar to this one from a Dixie mold. As I recall (very faulty!) Turner Kirkland copied known bullets for civil war carbines. Paper cartridges. This one is .515".

That mold you're showing is beautifully made.

https://images15.fotki.com/v1211/photos/4/28344/9430776/DSCF3972d-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/bullet-casting/dscf3972d.html)

https://images46.fotki.com/v297/photos/4/28344/9430776/DSCF3968d-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/bullet-casting/dscf3968d.html)

I have several Kirkland molds. The older versions are pretty good but the later samples don't seem to measure up. A little sloppy.