Who hunts with linotype? Is it for the speed?

[LAKEMASTER]

I have been hearing chatter of a people using linotype for hunting when using bullets with a fat metplate, like the 411041 and the like I suppose. Most people say it shatters when it hits bone, some say it don't.

Do any of you out there use it for hunting for a specific reason? Or is it a speed game?

I've seen linotype shot into trees or lumber, there's no deformity when recovered, I can see that being a benefit when you have a .240 metplate.

[ChristopherO]

Many years ago I had a buddy who liked to cast RN linotype boolits and shoot them at targets that had a sand backing and recover them. Said, like you, that they could be reloaded and shot again. He wouldn't hunt with them. I've cast and shot boolits out of my 45/70 nearly that hard and they could be reloaded, too, after digging out of the dirt. But I am not inclinded to hunt game with them either. Meplat or not, I like boolits to have some mailability when they strike. Must be all those decades shooting pure in Muzzleloaders.

[Tripplebeards]

I wouldn’t hunt with a hard non expanding alloy. Did a couple of years ago by trial and error. I had no blood trails along with hard tracking jobs finding 2 out of three deer over a 100 yards away that I double lung shot. Boolit sized holes in and out. Both bled out internally. IMO it’s like shooting them with an arrow with a field point or FMJ. It will still kill deer. I just use soft alloy so I can watch my deer drop in its tracks or within sight. The 3rd deer dropped on the spot because I hot ribs on the way in. The rib bones shattered like a fragmenting boolit. The deer still kicked around for 15 /20 yards before dying. No more hard alloy for hunting EVER for me. This year I’m using 7.8 Bh 16:1 pewter and pure in a HP.

Here’s a good read for you with my hard alloy with photos of exit holes…

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?373867-First-deer(s)-with-cast-boolits!-Used-my-devastators!!!

[elk hunter]

For general shooting at paper or steel targets I generally use wheel weight alloy. I would normally use a softer alloy for for hunting but there are some special cases where a harder alloy would be advantageous i.e. where greater penetration is needed. I used linotype for this .585 diameter, 525 grain bullet to take a Cape Buffalo. The first shot was a slightly angling frontal shot at 20 yards. The bullet cut a deep crease across the heart and stopped in the paunch. The nose deformed but only lost seven grains in weight. The bull went about thirty yards and was down but not dead. I put two more from right to left through the chest to finish him. I used the semi-wad cutter design rather than a round nose, which would have increased penetration, as I wanted tissue damage as well as decent penetration. The bullet on the left is as cast. The one in the center is a .308 diameter.
290380290381

[Tripplebeards]

Cracking engine blocks and Elephant skulls….and Cape buffalo is a perfect application IMO. ^^^^im jealous!!!

Oh…and a under a grizzly bear’s chin when it’s on top of you.

[farmbif]

I would think if you get a brain shot your good to go, but there is a reason why hunting with full metal jacket ammo is not legal for hunting game animals.

[Rapier]

I do not change my alloy for hunting, I use 7,2,1 for matches, and all general shooting. That is WW, Lyno, Chilled lead shot. The bullets when water dropped are hard. I change the mould and caliber thus the bullet shape to match the game, the cartridge and capacity to push the bullet. The 30s are good, the 338 give more application and the 44s and 45s fit most any application over a deer size critter. A big flat point in the 45-70 does the trick on most things. If that does not work, I do have a 458 Lott for a truck gun.

[Tripplebeards]

A bigger caliber doesn’t make up with using a non expanding bullet. I’ve shot deer with a 375 RUM using max load book data and a 260 grain accubond. Loaded well over 3,000 FPS. Both deer ran over a 100 yards with NO blood trail what so ever. Both were shot standing still perfectly broadside. I hit both of them an an inch behind the front shoulder center mass. They both were double lung shots when I autopsied them. Had the same issue with a 180 grain accubond loaded in a 30-06 at 2650 FPS. The deer stood and looked at me after I hit it through both lungs…like it wasn’t shot. I could see it bleeding where I hit it. Next shot, I aimed high shoulder to hopefully backbone it. The deer dropped like it was paralyzed. I thought it was dead at that point. I walked up to it 10 minutes later and it was still alive looking at me. I quickly finished it off and swore off Accubonds. All these deer were shot the first year accubonds came out. I don’t know if they’ve changed construction since and I don’t care. I haven’t had the same expired with a bullet’s performance till I used a 15.4 BH non expanding HP boolit at 1750 FPS out of my 77/44. If I use a core loc or ballistic tip in the same 180 grain weight and velocity 99% of my deer drop where stand with the same shot placement or within a few feet. Those accubonds are horrible for thin skinned game IMO.

[quilbilly]

I wouldn’t hunt with a hard non expanding alloy. Did a couple of years ago by trial and error. I had no blood trails along with hard tracking jobs finding 2 out of three deer over a 100 yards away that I double lung shot. Boolit sized holes in and out. Both bled out internally. IMO it’s like shooting them with an arrow with a field point or FMJ. It will still kill deer. I just use soft alloy so I can watch my deer drop in its tracks or within sight. The 3rd deer dropped on the spot because I hot ribs on the way in. The rib bones shattered like a fragmenting boolit. The deer still kicked around for 15 /20 yards before dying. No more hard alloy for hunting EVER for me. This year I’m using 7.8 Bh 16:1 pewter and pure in a HP.

Here’s a good read for you with my hard alloy with photos of exit holes…

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?373867-First-deer(s)-with-cast-boolits!-Used-my-devastators!!!
Exactly!

[elk hunter]

I would think if you get a brain shot your good to go, but there is a reason why hunting with full metal jacket ammo is not legal for hunting game animals.


Here in North America I can't think of an animal that I would use solids on. That said I do want penetration for deer, elk and similar animals where I hunt. From my experience exit wounds from expanding bullets leave a better blood trail than those that stop inside the animal. I've tried many different brands and types of bullets and my preferred one, at this time, is the Nosler Partition. I've had very few animals drop at the shot. And when they did there was a lot of bloodshot meat to deal with. I shoot them to eat and bloodshot meat isn't all that palatable to me. Your experience may be very different than mine. Now from the other side of the world there are numerous examples of FMJ bullets bending and rupturing when fired in to large animals such as elephant. And an expanding bullet most likely would have not worked at all. So there is a place for hard non-expanding bullets that penetrate deeply, but not necessarily here in North America. The new homogeneous solids are much more reliable than the old steel jacketed ones and have saved many a PH's and clients life when the stuff hit the fan.

[megasupermagnum]

There's good places to use non-expanding bullets, but generally what most people use for rifles, it is not. Personally I'm not even impressed by them in 44/45 calibers. 50 caliber is kind of the breaking point. Elk Hunter's 58 caliber is a good one to use solids in, although his did deform/expand somewhat. 20, 16, 12, and 10 gauge shotguns, I definitely want a slug that does not deform, as they are overflowing in bullet diameter and power, but expanding slugs can throw penetration out the window if you aren't careful. Slug design is the main factor there though, and you can have pure lead slugs that penetrate very deep.

I've shot linotype into stuff, but not an animal. I don't see why it would be a problem, I don't see anything that they are overly brittle. I do think that if hardness is the game, a heat treated COWW is superior in every metric. Less brittle, heavier, harder, cheaper. I don't think using straight linotype has a purpose in todays world that I have found. It's great mixed with pure lead, a little goes a long way.

[Edward]

Never saw an alloy heavier than pure lead (at least ) that I could afford !/Ed

[Tripplebeards]

Here’s an example of “softer” alloy I used on a deer…

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?414159-Finally-shot-a-deer-with-my-Marlin-336-and-our-200-grain-HP-group-buy!

Bang flop!…it was AWESOME!!! Best reward yet with a cast boolit I made myself!!! The load i used is in my avatar to the left. It drops deer quicker than a 180 grain speer hot core loaded around 2450 FPS.

I’ll sacrifice a little meat to watch a deer drop on the spot or within sight. I hunt 78 yards off my property line so I can’t afford to get a runner.

[centershot]

A bigger caliber doesn’t make up with using a non expanding bullet.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. If they could speak, there's a couple truckloads of dead deer that would tell you the Brenneke slugs I shot them with didn't expand, but killed them quite handily, and quickly!

[LAKEMASTER]

My WW are soft enough that if I drop them off my 32" tall table they deform when they hit the ground. I air cool them after casted and air cool them after powder coating

[gunseller]

I usually cast from WW and they are hard enough to be shot into a rock of wood then split out resized and shot again. Three times before I lost one bullet. With 44 mags, 45 Colt and 45/70 all I use now is WW. I have used linotype and kill as well as WW, bang flop. Then pull out the k life and go to work. If you have only linotype use it with no second thought.
Steve

[white eagle]

this year I am trying air cooled wheel weights and monotype
bout a half a handful to 15# of ww
powder coated of course

[white eagle]

I was also told by a very reliable handloader and caster that
he had some very dismal results from using str8 linotype and
recommended against its use for hunting

[LAKEMASTER]

So one of the sources that I heard the linotype for hunting expressed that it was a bear load for a longer distance shot situation. The shot was never fired. But he claims it was recommended to him from the guide who casts. But the bear he ended up shooting was with his 31141

[waksupi]

Straight lino can be very destructive for hunting. Fine, if you like bloodshot meat, and a missing quarter.

[gwpercle]

Lino boolits behave like a solid .
For Louisiana whitetail deer and the pesky hogs
Have gone from air cooled COWW to a softer mix of 50-50 COWW & soft lead .
Book says it should be a BHN 8 . I never tested the hardness but I like the results...
in both handgun and rifle boolit loads . I use gas checks on 30 cal. rifle boolits ... seems to help .
Gary

[elk hunter]

My experience with linotype is confined to two animals; a Cape Buffalo and a Kudu. I used linotype and a bullet with a large meplat on the advise of a friend who has taken many buffalo, some with a 475 revolver. What I didn't want was severe deformation that would limit penetration on the buffalo. Buffalo are big and have a thick, tough hide especially on their chest and neck. What I did want was penetration and tissue damage. Not all that easy to get with a cast bullet, hence the use of the semi-wadcutter style of bullet. The combination worked well on both animals. Had I used a round nose bullet I'm sure it would have acted like a solid and would not have done near the damage the large meplat bullet did. I was pleased that the bullet didn't shatter as I was afraid it would on the buffalo. My friend was right. I once had a 400 grain 45-70 bullet cast of wheel weight metal shatter when it hit the large front leg bone on a big Mule Deer buck. It appeared that only about a third of the bullet remained intact and exited. The deer's lungs looked like he had been shot with a shotgun. Remembering that incident made me wonder about trying Cape Buffalo with a cast bullet. In my experience cast bullet performance depends on three things. First is profile: sharp nose, round nose, semi wadcutter or hollow point. Point style generally determines penetration and tissue damage. Second is hardness. Harder bullets deform less and penetrate further. And third is velocity. Most cast bullets travel at rather sedate velocities compared to the jacketed variety. The faster you push one the more energy is has to transfer to the game. In my world balancing the three is what gets the performance needed to bring down game quickly and cleanly. Of course your mileage may vary.

[LAKEMASTER]

This topic peaked my interest because of my ranchdog bullet with a .254 metplate.

1 option being, if that fat linotype metplate explodes on impact, I can make some high velocity rounds for coyote or in situations I might be in where the bullet needs to not come the other side ( hunting near property )

My other curiosity, if that bullet would hold intact, it would be a nasty round for feral pig or things with big hide.

From day one, I was told linotype shatters. But I guess I never got the whole story if it shatters on impact or if it only does when it hits bone

[JohnH]

I think the worst thing that ever happened to cast bullet hunting is the myth that hard cast bullets don't lead. From the mid 1980s to the mid 1990's this was promulgated as fact by almost all the gun rag writers, and there are a few who still swear by it today. And. It's. Total. BS. There is a lot more reading available here and in other places than I'm going to go into here, but suffice it to say that the harder the bullet, the less able it is to expand into the rifling and seal the bore, thus allowing gas cutting to lead the crap out of the barrel.

Now how is this germane to this discussion? Somewhere in time the idea that harder lead is better got into the mainstream of cast bulleting and it's become a mantra that ain't true. Simply put, bullets harder than about 12 BHN are not needed nor desired for hunting. One can easily get 1800-2000 fps with that hardness and it will still deform and not not act like an FMJ and not pencil through or break up when hitting hard bone. Do some research, Elmer Keith's preferred alloy was 16:1 lead/tin which tips the BHN scale between 11 and 12 all day long, and in his day that was considered a hard alloy. For a period of about 8 years I used cast boolits almost exclusively when deer hunting. I used 44 Magnum, 357 Maximum, 38-55, 45-70 the boolits were a modified Lee 310 (gas check shank removed weight is ~250 grains) the SAECO #354, the Lyman 375449 and the Lee 459405 HP respectively, all were cast of straight COWW, all were one shot lung/heart kills. The only bullet I recovered was from the 44, it had passed through and lodged against the far side front leg bone. The nose was deformed such that the bullet had a full 44 diameter, I figure the deformation occurred against the leg bone.

I wouldn't hunt with anything harder than 12BHN and would prefer softer if I could get the desired velocity out of it.

[honus]

Lino boolits behave like a solid .
For Louisiana whitetail deer and the pesky hogs
Have gone from air cooled COWW to a softer mix of 50-50 COWW & soft lead .
Book says it should be a BHN 8 . I never tested the hardness but I like the results...
in both handgun and rifle boolit loads . I use gas checks on 30 cal. rifle boolits ... seems to help .
Gary

I've been preaching that for years, but few believe it. Now that PC has come along, the hardest I shoot is 50/50, but Powder coated pure lead has yet to fail me. Size is King.