30-30 and Lyman 311008 115 grain?

[smkummer]

Anybody doing this? This mold dropped out at .310 and we have 700X powder and unique. A rural yard plinking load out to a max. of 100 yards is all we want. Gun used is a old savage bolt action 30-30. Thanks

[zarrinvz24]

It was done more commonly in days past. You can find some old load data for it as well. Should be able to meet your expectations for it.

[smkummer]

I am out of town right now and away from my Lyman cast bullet handbook of 1973, lots of 700x and unique loads in it. We are going to start with 7-8 grains unique. My friends unique is getting low, and we are well stocked on 700x for the moment.

[smkummer]

10 mph wind today and resting on a cardboard box in a table. No sandbags. Sometimes waited for the wind to die down to take the shot but slightly over a 2” group at 50 yards with 6 1/2 grains unique. It was a bigger group with 8 grains unique. 3-9 power scope. The trigger is a bit spongy on the 50 plus year old Savage 340. Front and rear sandbags would have tightened the group. It’s a usable load but would have preferred it shot close to an inch at 50 yards.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Try some loads with the 700x, it might burn a little better with your light bullet. I've shot some nice groups with 700x and plain based bullets in a Krag. Good, cheap fun.

[Mk42gunner]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Lots of good info in the article in the first post.

I have loaded the group buy 314-120 (pretty close to the 311008, if a bit heavier) in the .30-30 with a small amount of Green Dot. Its been several years, but they were accurate enough for the uses you suggest. I don't think I ever shot them more than fifty yards, but they worked well enough up close I would have no qualms about trying plinking targets at 100.

Robert

[slughammer]

I am out of town right now and away from my Lyman cast bullet handbook of 1973, lots of 700x and unique loads in it. We are going to start with 7-8 grains unique. My friends unique is getting low, and we are well stocked on 700x for the moment.The 1973 version does not list 311008, but it does list 311441 at 120gr.

700X 7.0gr 1415fps up to 8.9gr 1643fps

Unique 7.5gr 1480fps up to 11.4gr 1913fps

Hope that helps.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[LAH]

I've shot several of these bullets in both my 30-30 rifles. They will do a little better than 2" at 50 but considering your rest, I'll call you doing good. I load them with Red Dot & Green Dot so no help with your powders. I do like the bullet though.

[1Hawkeye]

Yep its a fun load to play with. I use 7.5 grs of unique and at 25 yds the hole just gets a little bigger with each shot at 50 yds its about an inch and at 100 yds its around 2 inches or less. I'm using an iron sighted savage 219 but when time allows I want to try them in my scoped marlin 336a. The 311008 is a very versatile bullet in any .30 cals and in the .32-20 its wonderful. Another one to try is 311359 its a 115gr spire point of the same weight. Its not for tube magazines but in anything else it will do the same as 311008 with the same powder charges.

[Stopsign32v]

Does the 311008 cycle good in a lever action?

Edit: No crimp groove? :sad:

[smkummer]

We are barely crimping in the last lube groove. This bolt action savage is a magazine feed clip. Thanks everyone.

[1Hawkeye]

Does the 311008 cycle good in a lever action?

Edit: No crimp groove? :sad:

I know it does in a .32-20 but I haven't tried a .30-30 yet I suspect it will feed just fine. As for the crimp groove just use the top grease groove as a crimp groove.

[Tim357]

It's a good gopher getter!

[FredBuddy]

I powder coat the 311008 and my LEE push thru
sizer leaves them at .3105. I use a .309 NOE neck
expander and a Redding taper crimp to avoid
sizing down the boolit.

I use Trail Boss, Unique or Red Dot (listed
in order of velocity) with Trail Boss giving
most generally good results in all 7 of
my 30-30's. Red Dot is #2.

Good combo for walk-about and close
range ground hog hunting.

[bedbugbilly]

When I had my 94 and Marlin 336SC I used to use that boolit quit often for plinking - usually over some Red Dit or Bulls Eye - a good plinking round and also good for small critters and prats. A woodchuck made the mistake of coming out of his hole one day as I went out to do some shooting - he never knew what hit him.

[Mk42gunner]

Does the 311008 cycle good in a lever action?

Edit: No crimp groove? :sad:
It fed well in my Marlin.

I didn't bother with a crimp, just straightened the flare out. Light loads with a light projectile and next to no recoil, in my opinion the bullet isn't going to move.

Robert

[Stopsign32v]

Well I got one on the way! Excited to see how it does in my Win 94

[Wilderness]

SMK: We call them squibs and use them for competitive shooting.

My load in .30-30 for this bullet is 5 gns AP70(Universal)/Unique, for about 1050 fps. I size to .310" for an old cut groove Marlin 336A. Alloy is soft, but not too soft (about 4% non-lead). Bullets are seated to engage the rifling, meaning one grease groove is covered and one exposed. I use pistol primers, mainly because I have a lot of them, but do not hold firm views on pistol versus rifle primers for squibs. This is actually my most accurate load in this rifle, with numerous groups under 1" at 50 meters. This is with peep and bead.

The benefit of subsonic becomes apparent at 100 m, with groups holding the same angular dispersion. Slightly heavier loads, whose bullets have to come back through the transonic zone before reaching 100, are more likely to shoot 4" - 6" groups at 100.

Subsonic loads with #311008 are entirely adequate for LAS chickens at 50 m. Surprisingly, they will also knock over some pigs and turkeys (100 m and 150 m), but in slow motion and not reliably. They may also be used for practice on the paper version of the the ram at 200 m, and shoot better groups at that distance than the normal ram power loads.

Do not be tempted to try jacketed (or Berry) bullets at low speed - you may sooner or later stick one in the barrel. This should also be a caution to use soft alloys with very light loads, and to investigate any shot that you think was a "dud".

[LAH]

The 311008 feeds fine in my 94 Winchester

[Stopsign32v]

SMK: We call them squibs and use them for competitive shooting.

My load in .30-30 for this bullet is 5.5 gns AP70(Universal)/Unique, for about 1050 fps. I size to .310" for an old cut groove Marlin 336A. Alloy is soft, but not too soft (about 4% non-lead). Bullets are seated to engage the rifling, meaning one grease groove is covered and one exposed. I use pistol primers, mainly because I have a lot of them, but do not hold firm views on pistol versus rifle primers for squibs. This is actually my most accurate load in this rifle, with numerous groups under 1" at 50 meters. This is with peep and bead.

The benefit of subsonic becomes apparent at 100 m, with groups holding the same angular dispersion. Slightly heavier loads, whose bullets have to come back through the transonic zone before reaching 100, are more likely to shoot 4" - 6" groups at 100.

Subsonic loads with #311008 are entirely adequate for LAS chickens at 50 m. Surprisingly, they will also knock over some pigs and turkeys (100 m and 150 m), but in slow motion and not reliably. They may also be used for practice on the paper version of the the ram at 200 m, and shoot better groups at that distance than the normal ram power loads.

Do not be tempted to try jacketed (or Berry) bullets at low speed - you may sooner or later stick one in the barrel. This should also be a caution to use soft alloys with very light loads, and to investigate any shot that you think was a "dud".

Hey I just wanted to bring this back.

Is there no chance of too little powder in the rear at such a light load of 5.5gr of Unique?

[trapper9260]

Lee has a mold for the 115 gr , it is flat nose also.

[Nobade]

I had better luck with #311410 than #311008 in the 30-30.

[Wilderness]

Hey I just wanted to bring this back.

Is there no chance of too little powder in the rear at such a light load of 5.5gr of Unique?



Here is some data for light loads. Load was I was 5 gns AP70/Unique with 115 gn bullet, and 5.5 gns was with 163 gn .30-30 bullet and the 120 gn .32-40 bullet..

Some AP70/Universal loads (5 gns) with 115 gn bullets produced standard deviations (5 shots) of 13, 4, 10 and 15. These were SDs for four x five shot groups.

Unique loads with 163 gn bullets (5.5 gns) produced SDs of 9, 11, 6, 16 & 7 across five groups.

A quick look through the .32-40 data shows SDs of 6 - 13 for a series of five shot groups at 1030 fps or so, the same as the .30-30s.

All shots were fired with powder level, i.e. not against primer.

These SD would suggest pretty happy burning.

If you think Unique, or any of the other fast shotgun powders, might not light properly in a partially filled case, try putting about 5 gns on the floor and a primed case in your rifle. With the muzzle 6" or a foot from the powder, flash it with the primer. It will light. Do the same with a normal rifle powder and it will just scatter without lighting. A few squib loads in your pocket will even do for emergency fire lighters provided you have some way of getting the bullet out of the cartridge when required. Place powder amid tinder and kindling and flash it with the primer.

[OBXPilgrim]

Can't wait to start some of this with a 30-30. Been having fun with a 200gr 30 cal in 308 that are almost subsonic.

[rintinglen]

7.0 grains of 700x worked very well in my 30-30's. I normally use 8.0 grains of Unique or 8.2 grains of Herco, but during the 2012 Obama shortage, I picked up a pound of 700x and used it up. I was shooting Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette in those days and loading for 3 people, so it only took a few months to burn it up.

[dimaprok]

7.0 grains of 700x worked very well in my 30-30's. I normally use 8.0 grains of Unique or 8.2 grains of Herco, but during the 2012 Obama shortage, I picked up a pound of 700x and used it up. I was shooting Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette in those days and loading for 3 people, so it only took a few months to burn it up.

With what bullet???

[dimaprok]

Here is some data for light loads. I was wrong about the 5.5 gns AP70/Unique. It was actually 5 gns with 115 gn bullet when I checked the records. The 5.5 gns was with the 163 gn .30-30 bullet and the 120 gn .32-40 bullet..

Some AP70/Universal loads (5 gns) with 115 gn bullets produced standard deviations (5 shots) of 13, 4, 10 and 15.

Unique loads with 163 gn bullets (5.5 gns) produced SDs of 9, 11, 6, 16 & 7.

A quick look through the .32-40 data shows SDs of 6 - 13 for 1030 fps or so, the same as the .30-30s.

All shots were fired with powder level, i.e. not against primer.

These SD would suggest pretty happy burning.

If you think Unique, or any of the other fast shotgun powders, might not light properly in a partially filled case, try putting about 5 gns on the floor and a primed case in your rifle. With the muzzle 6" or a foot from the powder, flash it with the primer. It will light. Do the same with a normal rifle powder and it will just scatter without lighting. A few squib loads in your pocket will even do for emergency fire lighters provided you have some way of getting the bullet out of the cartridge when required. Place powder amid tinder and kindling and flash it with the primer.

If you made a mistake, please fix it in original post so that someone else doesn't end up using wrong data. I find it odd that you use less powder for lighter bullet and more powder for heavier bullet, usually it's other way around. Also standard deviation is a single number calculated from a string of numbers that typically a chronograph will calculate and display for you. You provided 5 different numbers which doesn't makes sense.

[Wilderness]

If you made a mistake, please fix it in original post so that someone else doesn't end up using wrong data. I find it odd that you use less powder for lighter bullet and more powder for heavier bullet, usually it's other way around. Also standard deviation is a single number calculated from a string of numbers that typically a chronograph will calculate and display for you. You provided 5 different numbers which doesn't makes sense.

Dimaprok: Good advice - both posts are fixed.

The 115 gn bullet in .30-30 required 5 gns AP70/Unique to achieve approx 1050 fps, i.e. all shots below 1100 fps. The heavier 163 gn bullet is slower with that load, so an extra 0.5 gns is used to bring it up to the same velocity. Likewise the .32-40 with 120 gn bullet with larger bore needs an extra half grain (5.5 gns) with 120 gn bullet to achieve the desired velocity - i.e. safely subsonic.

The SD figures are for individual five shot groups - four groups of 115 gn .30-30, five groups of 163 gn .30-30, and six groups of 120 gn .32-40.

[dimaprok]

Dimaprok: Good advice - both posts are fixed.

The 115 gn bullet in .30-30 required 5 gns AP70/Unique to achieve approx 1050 fps, i.e. all shots below 1100 fps. The heavier 163 gn bullet is slower with that load, so an extra 0.5 gns is used to bring it up to the same velocity. Likewise the .32-40 with 120 gn bullet with larger bore needs an extra half grain (5.5 gns) with 120 gn bullet to achieve the desired velocity - i.e. safely subsonic.

The SD figures are for individual five shot groups - four groups of 115 gn .30-30, five groups of 163 gn .30-30, and six groups of 120 gn .32-40.

Gotcha! That's pretty good SD numbers.
I just loaded some with Trail Boss 11.5gr, haven't got to the range yet to chrono, might be a while with this weather. Shot a couple in garage in to a bullet trap and recoil is non existent. QuickLoad shows estimated velocity 1520 fps. I am using 132-134gr bullet, it looks pretty much like Lyman 311410 clone by Lachmiller, I picked up this mold from eBay pretty cheap but its made very well, beefier than Lyman. It has a "crimp" groove, not like traditional but I crimp it there but I don't know if the shape of the bullet is safe to stack it in the tube magazine. I also have a true round nose RCBS 115gr that I cast up, also some MP Mold hollow points a friend sent me at 125gr also looks like a good candidate for light plinker, it has real crimp groove too.

Here's the picture of the bullet in question:
291561291562

[smkummer]

I started this and an update since being back home. I read somewhere about 3.5 grs. red dot with 311008. I tried it in my rural backyard subdivision and while I don’t need ear plugs out of my 20” Win 94, it makes a good bang and fun but just a tad too loud for my backyard. Crimped in the last grease groove. I noticed one of the bags of my empty 30-30 brass said 2.0 grains red dot and “worked well”. So I just loaded those. Yes, quieter. In fact when the leaves come back on the trees in my rural subdivision, I believe I can shoot these in my back yard creek valley without alarming neighbors.

[ElCheapo]

The 311008 has become a favorite of mine. I've tested it at various velocities and it's given more than acceptable accuracy and performance on game. 6 grains of Red Dot gave me 1313 fps, while 7 grains gave me 1413 fps. I shot some groundhogs with the 7 grain load and it was instant death. Maybe try 4.5 to 5 grains for 1100 to 1200 fps?

Going up the velocity scale, 8.5 grains of Green Dot gave me 1578 fps, 9 grains came in at 1632 fps and 9.5 grains gave me 1690 fps. Finally, I tested it with Accurate Arms #9 and shooting a PC'd 311008 with Winchester cases and Rem 9 1/2 LRP's at 81 degrees F. 16 grains gave 1915 fps, 17 grains gave 2001 fps and 18 grains gave 2156 fps. 18.5 grains put me slightly over 2200 fps and this is the load I shot my deer with this year. The small buck was bedded at about 75 yards, and the 311008 went through both shoulders and exited. Deer was never able to get to his feet and expired on the spot. I tested again at 42 degrees F and 21 grains gave 2333 fps, while 22 grains of AA#9 gave 2406 fps. These loads gave no pressure signs in my Marlin 336 and recoil was light. Hope this helps!

[jaysouth]

Here is a thread in hunting with cast boolits on using the 311008 at over 2,000 for a deer bullet:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?435728-311008-works-for-deer-too!

[smkummer]

Going to try 5.0 grains 700x and try to stay subsonic. Not that I need to stay subsonic but shooting the 2.0 grain and 3.5 grain load without ear plugs was kind of fun. Those later loads were ok for 25 yards or less but I had to really elevate my rear sight to hit at 50.

[do it for dale reloading]

Does anyone have any plinking loads using a 110gn casr boolit and one of rhese powders: hodgdon (lilgun, tite wad, tite group, universal, clays, trailboss) winchester 231, vihtavuori n320

[Larry Gibson]

Have shot coffee cans full of 311008s, 311316 and 313361s loaded over 7.2 gr Bullseye and 8 gr of Unique in my M94 30-30 since I was 14 years old. They run 1450 - 1480 fps out of my 20" barreled carbine. 6.5 - 7.2 gr of 231 or N320 should do as well.

Last few years I've even toned that down to where i shoot a 90 gr SWC over 2.7 gr Bullseye for 850 fps and excellent accuracy for plinking and small game.