Partially burned powder in a new Uberti SAA Clone reloads?

[VariableRecall]

I've loaded up some .45 Colt in the following configuration for a buddy's new Uberti SAA clone. This load hit right where the sights were, and the recoil was pleasant, but on the other hand there was a strange issue where there was a great deal of partially burnt powder. I'd say about a total of 4-ish grains worth of partially burnt, yellowish powder was strewn across the table as I went through about 30 rounds or so of reloads.

*Powder: 7gn Win 231/HP-38
*Bullet: RCBS 200gn SWC .
(Designed for .45 ACP. Bullet sits about 0.21 inches deep in the case using a grease groove as a crimp groove)
*Large Pistol Primer
*Seated: 1.615 OAL

My guess is that Win 231 could be just too dense of a powder to use efficiently in .45 LC with that shallow of a projectile. What certainly does not help in the fact that the projectile is short and stubby in comparison to other more popular projectile types. I've got my eyes on a 255gn Flat nosed mold that keeps a good 2/3's of the projectile in the case. Could that improve the powder burn with a lower amount of air-space in the cartridge?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010210353?pid=570018
Am I thinking in the right direction to potentially correct this issue?
All I've been able to grab in terms of powder is HP-38/Win 231. Would Accurate No5 be a potential candidate for a bulkier powder that may perform with a less unpleasant air-gap and more completely burn? I've heard the wonders of Unique but I've literally never seen it in stock when I've been looking for it.

Or, am I just barking up the wrong tree?

[Remiel]

No experience with that powder but I found in my converted Rodgers and Spencer that 700x performed better than the titegroup I tried beforehand with a lubed 230grn commercial cast bullets I had more open space in the case with titegroup than the 700x, both gave a full burn but the 700x was more consistent and I had less carbon on the outside of the case


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[VariableRecall]

No experience with that powder but I found in my converted Rodgers and Spencer that 700x performed better than the titegroup I tried beforehand with a lubed 230grn commercial cast bullets I had more open space in the case with titegroup than the 700x, both gave a full burn but the 700x was more consistent and I had less carbon on the outside of the case


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I would say that Win231 is pretty similar to Titegroup. Win231/HP-38 is a little less energy dense than Titegroup (according to the load data) but I can see why there would be an issue with an air gap in your case as well.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Shoot red dot and promo and imr red anymore out of the SAA Uberti 45 colts , unique was for the ruger loads , but in these times it can be hard to find the powder one wants .

My data I have shows 7 grains of your powder to be below start for the 200 grain bullet , but do not have access to all my data till I am home , I believe 7 grains and heavier bullets do go better together .

[Tar Heel]

I would stick with a heavier bullet and seat it correctly to crimp in the crimp groove, if it has one. The large case capacity and an anemic load with a bullet too light is probably at the root of the issue. I shoot a 250ish gr FNL bullet with 6gr of TiteGroup. The RCBS Keith bullet, when crimped in the crimp groove rocks. This bullet may not fit in all 45 Colt revolvers being a tad too long for some cylinders. I believe it fits the Uberti SAA guns but may not work in the Remington cartridge gun.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Variable, you’re on the right track of too much air space. If you like the boolit you’re using bc it hits to your point of aim, keep the boolit. If you’re limited to your W231, it’s not a great powder for your application but it can work ok. Thing to do is deep seat your boolit and get rid of some of that air space and keep the powder closer to the primer. Deep seating does raise pressure and that’s one more thing you need. Get the pressure up to where the W231 burns in it’s designed envelope.

Treat it like working up a load. Deep seat a little at at time. Go maybe 1/16” to 1/8” increments. Don’t worry about where on the boolit you crimp. Crimp just enough to chamber reliably. I’ll bet you find a happy spot where your powder cleans up.

Another way to approach it is to keep your boolit and COL but move to an easier to ignite powder. Bullseye would be the first I’d try bc of its high nitroglycerin content and being a flake powder.

Or, go with shorter cases like Starline’s Cowboy 45’s. You can make your own by trimming your 45 Colt brass. That’s the same thing as deep seating but it just makes the cartridge look better. But….some people are skittish about short brass in long chambers.

Deep seating keep is my recommendation.

[black mamba]

I agree with the deep seating, but also up your charge to 7.5 grains. Seat to crimp just over the driving band, which should be roughly a tenth deeper (1.51"). Even going up to 8.0 grains of 231 is still under SAAMI pressure limit. There is a point where 231 starts to burn clean, you just have to find it. Your original load of 7 grains long seated is under 10Kpsi, so lots of room to increase pressure safely.

[slughammer]

Don't worry too much about the powder on the table. Shoot over a chronograph instead. Check your extreme spread and your velocity. Seat deeper and work up the load a bit.

Let the results on target and over the chrono guide you. The unburt powder is what it is sometimes, but 100fps spread will say its not working.

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[rintinglen]

My Speer #14 shows that for a 200 grain SWC, 7.3 grains is the START load for WW.231. The Max is 8.3 grns. Bump up the charge to +7.5, use a firm crimp, and I think your troubles will disappear. I use 7.8 grains of 231 with a 454-424 260 grain boolit.

[Char-Gar]

I would stick with a heavier bullet and seat it correctly to crimp in the crimp groove, if it has one. The large case capacity and an anemic load with a bullet too light is probably at the root of the issue. I shoot a 250ish gr FNL bullet with 6gr of TiteGroup. The RCBS Keith bullet, when crimped in the crimp groove rocks. This bullet may not fit in all 45 Colt revolvers being a tad too long for some cylinders. I believe it fits the Uberti SAA guns but may not work in the Remington cartridge gun.

I believe this to be the correct response.

[DougGuy]

Heavier boolit needed. The slower the powder the more dwell time you need to burn it all. The lighter the boolit = the shorter the dwell time (in the barrel).

[VariableRecall]

I would stick with a heavier bullet and seat it correctly to crimp in the crimp groove, if it has one. The large case capacity and an anemic load with a bullet too light is probably at the root of the issue. I shoot a 250ish gr FNL bullet with 6gr of TiteGroup. The RCBS Keith bullet, when crimped in the crimp groove rocks. This bullet may not fit in all 45 Colt revolvers being a tad too long for some cylinders. I believe it fits the Uberti SAA guns but may not work in the Remington cartridge gun.

That sounds like the way I should do it. I remember having similar issues with partially burnt powder with under-charged ammunition when I started reloading for the first time not too long ago. The 200gn SWC that I currently have available lacks a crimp groove so that makes getting everything nice and snug a bit of a hassle. With the deep seating of that 255gn mold I'm looking at, there's a much lower chance that the bullet at the crimp groove is going to stick out too much with that flat point. I suppose it would also be ideal for a lever action rifle if I were to get one in that caliber in the future.

In the meantime, I'm going to try and load up the next batch of boolits at the lip of the driving band to add a bit of seating depth, and up the powder charge by 0.5gn.
If I get a chance to try the new stuff out, I'll report back the results.

[downzero]

I would suggest a faster burning powder to get the pressure up a little bit and keep the velocity similar. For me, I use Clays for that, but there are plenty of others (Trail Boss, AA#2, Red Dot, Bullseye, 700X, Competition). There's nothing wrong with a heavier bullet, but cowboy action shooters are using a 160 grain bullet with fast burning powder quite effectively.

[Walks]

I use nothing lighter then 230grs. The RCBS #45-270-SAA is too long to fit in a Uberti or Pietta clone.
The Lee #452-230-TC over 5.0grs of Clays is accurate, clean and right out of the Hodgdon Cowboy Shooting Handbook - 1/03. Drop 1/2gr to 4.5grs for a .45Schofield case.
Another bullet that fills the .45Colt case is the Lee #452-255-RF. I load it over 6.0grs of Titegroup or 5.0grs of Clays for MAX Loads in a clone.