Ugh, not another backwoods predator defense thread!

[pashiner]

Point for discussion: My girlfriend and I had a mountain lion encounter recently in a place that we frequently hike, fish, and forage for mushrooms. Nobody was hurt or attacked, but we were nearly bowled over by the 3 deer the big cat was chasing. She carries a .38spl revolver, and I had left my single stack 9mm pistol at home that day. We each own a .22 pistol, but that's the extent of our handguns.
She barely got her revolver out of it's holster before it was all over and the cat was long gone.
We came to a few realizations.
#1, we're likely not gonna see it coming if we're attacked.
#2, best case scenario, you've got time for 1 or 2 shots before you're lunch...and neither of us are Jerry Miculek
#3, although a bullet from either pistol would eventually kill a cougar, somebody is likely still getting mauled pretty good while the predator slowly bleeds out, or you manage to shove the muzzle up it's nose and empty it's brains while it's chewing on you.
#4 a full grown mountain lion is big, and although thin skinned, many times faster, stronger and tougher than the human predators that our pistols are designed for shooting at.

And here we were scared of bumping into a meth lab...hahaha. I'll take on 3 junkies armed with a shovel before I go up against a big cat with a handgun any day.

So once we changed our shorts, went home and had a good stiff drink, conversation turned to our presumably inadequate pistols.
Having never plugged a puma before, it sure seemes like we're under-gunned.

So we started weighing our options.
-Start carrying my mossberg shockwave, which I'm nearly as fast with as my pistol.
-buy a more formidable pistol (we both like 1911s a lot)
-we're dumb, and you can totally whack a cougar with a .38 or 9mm before it eats you.
-ain't nothing you can do but stay out of the woods or take your chances, because shooting your way out of a cougar attack is a pipe dream.

We're not exactly flush with cash, so scoring a sweet 1911 and training up with it is a little ways off, but a mutual goal.

I like the shockwave idea for a few reasons.
-buckshot
-it makes a damn effective club, which could buy a few precious seconds compared to pistol-whipping a mountain lion with an empty revolver, should things go wrong.
-I have it set up, and regularly train to deploy from a 2 point sling on my strongside shoulder, which allows me an unobstructed defensive draw with no holster, and my clothes don't interfere with the draw no matter what I'm wearing.
-it's a strong visual deterrent for 2-legged predators.
-I already reload slugs and buckshot, so I could develop an ideal "stopping" load that would ensure that my one theoretical shot is the most effective it can be.

What do you all think?

Save up for a .45 or 10mm?
Rock the shockwave and deal with the weight?
A compact carry pistol is fine?
Some other wild suggestion?

[pashiner]

Oops, Posted in wrong forum. Admin feel free to move to outdoors>hiking or wherever appropriate.

[Winger Ed.]

If ya can't draw a handgun before it moves out of sight.
That tells ya it is so quick, you wouldn't have time draw a handgun if it jumped on you either.

Since I'm not directly related to Tarzan or Chuck Norris-----
I'd carry the shotgun, and really, really keep a sharp eye on my surroundings.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Shotgun sounds good to me. Get her one also. Practice.

DG

[NSB]

If you’re in Pennsylvania, you’re in my territory. Your chances of seeing a mountain lion again is about zero. Your chances of seeing a bear is very high. In the grand scheme of things your chances of being attacked by either is very, very slim. Read the number of attacks reported over the last fifty years in Pennsylvania. Zero for mountain lions and almost nothing for bear. If a mountain lion wants to get you, you’re not going to see it coming. Almost every single incident reported in the last twenty years was a surprise to the victim. When it’s not, it’s a sick/rabid animal. Carry your sidearm, enjoy your time outside and don’t dwell on it. I’ve had dozens of encounters with bears over the last thirty years in Penn’s Woods, and other than one of them beating my backpack trying to get my lunch I’ve been unharmed. It’s a little unnerving having a large omnivore scant feet away looking at you and wondering what it’s thinking, but so far it’s just been a close encounter. Even a very large bear can sneak up on you without making a sound. Man isn’t at the top of the food chain, the misquito is.

[Hogtamer]

You’ve thought about it all you need to. Buy the shotgun and 4 or 5 boxes of the cheapest shells you can find….they’re fine to practice with at 20 yds in. Guessing you don’t reload so I’d buy 2 3/4” #1 buckshot. All the power at close range, good pattern fill and lots less recoil than 3”.

[bayjoe]

Nothing argues with a 45

[almar]

it depends, the pistol is really just a backup. But its easier to carry around than a bigger firearm. I have a large selection but when I walk on my property I seem to always gravitate to the small 1911 officer 45 with an aluminum frame I keep tucked into my back behind the belt. Its easy to carry, and almost forget it, its a quick draw too with practice. The bigger pistols always seem to get in the way when I work so I put them down next to wherever I am doing whatever I'm doing.

[Jedman]

To me it sounds like a rare occurrence where you just happened to be in the right place when a cougar was chasing the deer. I don’t think the cougar wanted anything to do with either of you.
Most large and potentially dangerous animals don’t want anything to do with humans, especially bears and lions.

I could be full of sheep dip but I wouldn’t go armed for bear just in case. If your legal carrying handguns or a shotgun where you do these things and want to ,I say fine and please do if you feel better prepared.

Jedman

[Edward]

I like my GL 20/10mm with my cast bullet and got a extended Lone Wolf barrel/and a 40 barrel for play /Ed

[Edward]

Nothing argues with a 45

Except a stack full of 10mm out of a GL20

[BigAlofPa.]

A lot of folks here in Pa . Mistake bobcats for cougars.

[MT Gianni]

Cougars are very powerful animals. Many of the houndsmen I know shoot them with 22's, so power doesn't always relate to hard to kill.

[Plate plinker]

Cougars are very powerful animals. Many of the houndsmen I know shoot them with 22's, so power doesn't always relate to hard to kill.

Except the hunters are ready for the task when using a 22. The scatter gun is a better option. If money is a issue buy a cheap glock police trade in or even new gun for half the price of a good 1911. Don't waste money on cheaper 1911's.

[john.k]

if you dont want to get surprised by an animal 10 times quicker than you......take a dog with you....Weighted down with guns and ammo ...when alls needed is an average dog...not some savage monster that the illegal hunters use ,just an average dog.

[Scrounge]

Point for discussion: My girlfriend and I had a mountain lion encounter recently in a place that we frequently hike, fish, and forage for mushrooms. Nobody was hurt or attacked, but we were nearly bowled over by the 3 deer the big cat was chasing. She carries a .38spl revolver, and I had left my single stack 9mm pistol at home that day. We each own a .22 pistol, but that's the extent of our handguns.
She barely got her revolver out of it's holster before it was all over and the cat was long gone.
We came to a few realizations.
#1, we're likely not gonna see it coming if we're attacked.
#2, best case scenario, you've got time for 1 or 2 shots before you're lunch...and neither of us are Jerry Miculek
#3, although a bullet from either pistol would eventually kill a cougar, somebody is likely still getting mauled pretty good while the predator slowly bleeds out, or you manage to shove the muzzle up it's nose and empty it's brains while it's chewing on you.
#4 a full grown mountain lion is big, and although thin skinned, many times faster, stronger and tougher than the human predators that our pistols are designed for shooting at.

And here we were scared of bumping into a meth lab...hahaha. I'll take on 3 junkies armed with a shovel before I go up against a big cat with a handgun any day.

So once we changed our shorts, went home and had a good stiff drink, conversation turned to our presumably inadequate pistols.
Having never plugged a puma before, it sure seemes like we're under-gunned.

So we started weighing our options.
-Start carrying my mossberg shockwave, which I'm nearly as fast with as my pistol.
-buy a more formidable pistol (we both like 1911s a lot)
-we're dumb, and you can totally whack a cougar with a .38 or 9mm before it eats you.
-ain't nothing you can do but stay out of the woods or take your chances, because shooting your way out of a cougar attack is a pipe dream.

We're not exactly flush with cash, so scoring a sweet 1911 and training up with it is a little ways off, but a mutual goal.

I like the shockwave idea for a few reasons.
-buckshot
-it makes a damn effective club, which could buy a few precious seconds compared to pistol-whipping a mountain lion with an empty revolver, should things go wrong.
-I have it set up, and regularly train to deploy from a 2 point sling on my strongside shoulder, which allows me an unobstructed defensive draw with no holster, and my clothes don't interfere with the draw no matter what I'm wearing.
-it's a strong visual deterrent for 2-legged predators.
-I already reload slugs and buckshot, so I could develop an ideal "stopping" load that would ensure that my one theoretical shot is the most effective it can be.

What do you all think?

Save up for a .45 or 10mm?
Rock the shockwave and deal with the weight?
A compact carry pistol is fine?
Some other wild suggestion?


For starters, embrace the power of AND. IMO, you should save up for the 1911s. AND do what you need to use the Shockwave, too!

Also doesn't mean you shouldn't keep the compact carry pistol around, too. If you have a second or so to make the decision, you can choose which you want to suit the situation. I have argued with a fairly large normal type housecat. I certainly don't ever want to tackle a mountain lion with a .38, though I love shooting them, and have several. OK, technically, they're .357mags, but I shoot a lot of .38 spl out of them, and might not have them loaded with warshot. You fight the war (or mountain lion) with the weapons you have, not the weapons you want.

Just FYI, Tisas makes a very nice copy of the 1911. I have the Tisas Zig M1911. Its an 8-shot basic GI-type 1911. It doesn't rattle as badly as the old GI guns my dad started me on, and I've fired a couple of hundred round of factory ammo through it, and another hundred or so handloads, and not had a failure to feed or extract or fire that wasn't related to a cheap magazine I picked up for next to nothing. The Mec-Gar mag that came with it feeds flawlessly. It's a great gun out of the box. Only "modification" I've made to it was putting a slightly used and modified 2nd hand Pachmayr wrap-around grip on it. I've always loved them, and they fit me just right. Especially on a 1911.

HTH!

Bill

[brass410]

12 gauge is probably you best choice, if something goes sideways and you end up on the down side, any bystander will probably know how to use that thunder stick, if for nothing else a club. But a dog is a wonderful thing in the bush, they see and notice everything longggg before you will, and the'll tell everybody within earshot about it.

[762 shooter]

Much ado about nothing.

1. Each carry a pistol. Preferably 9mm or larger with the best bullet tech you can afford.

2. Assume you will be on the ground when you draw your pistol.

3. Fire wildly near head.

4. Or just follow #1 and enjoy your outdoor time.

762

[Butzbach]

You’ve thought about it all you need to. Buy the shotgun and 4 or 5 boxes of the cheapest shells you can find….they’re fine to practice with at 20 yds in. Guessing you don’t reload so I’d buy 2 3/4” #1 buckshot. All the power at close range, good pattern fill and lots less recoil than 3”.

Luuuuuuucie you got some esplainin’ to do. Somebody didn’t read the OP!

[Half Dog]

Take someone, who you don’t like too much, with you as a sacrifice.

[bakerjw]

Stay with the handgun and be more situationally aware.
I have done long distance cycling in the Canadian and US rockies. Up in some VERY remote areas. I remember pedaling over whitefish Pass in an are where the road was cut into a hillside. There was a 6 to 8 foot shelf immediately to my left and I wondered how many cyclists had been stalked along areas like that before.

Big cats can get aggressive with humans but they usually just run away. That said, my friend Bonnie had a mountain stare her down on Galton Pass in B.C. a few years back.

ETA... A few years back, me, my son and a friend were in deep B.C. We'd already pedaled over Lodgepole Pass and were near the top of Cabin Pass. It was windy, hot and dry. We'd put in 70 miles so far in the day and were pretty quiet and drained. Right near the top of the pass, a mountain lion jumped up out of a large clump of grass and ran away. We barely had time to get out bear spray out of our holsters. I carry my bear spray on a custom holster on my handlebar near my right hand.

[MrWolf]

Black bears are more common where I am at. I have game cam pics of Momma and three cubs not 100 yes from our place a few years ago. Had an annoying one come to within 50' of the house on my driveway and spoked me as I walked around my truck. I was not armed but I typically carry my SA 10mm in a Kenai chest holster when we walk our 81 acres. Never want to come between Momma and her cubs. I would carry my 10 vs a shotgun as that shotgun is gonna get heavy and take away from why we are out walking. Typically we have our dogs with us also, but that one bear was not afraid of them either. More worried about them attacking the bear trying to protect us. Good luck

[dverna]

if you dont want to get surprised by an animal 10 times quicker than you......take a dog with you....Weighted down with guns and ammo ...when alls needed is an average dog...not some savage monster that the illegal hunters use ,just an average dog.

This seems like the best advice so far. A dog will give you some time to get a gun into play. IMO a carry gun against a cougar focused on making you dinner does not present good odds for most folks. Trying to justify a 1911 is just fooling yourself. Nothing magic about the 1911 in spite of its fans. OTOH, carrying a shotgun is not the easiest thing to do even if it is the best weapon.

If is was me, I would carry a Glock 22 as that is what I have. But .40S&W might be a tad light. A 10mm would be better. Better yet a .44 Mountain Gun. I would need something easy to carry or I will not carry it. Even with a dog to distract the animal, you may not get many shots off. The issue is, are you prepared to fire even if it means hitting your dog?

I have lived in bear country for 9 years and never had a bad encounter. All I know about cougars is what I read and they seem to be a bigger threat than black bears. IIRC most attacks have been on people in the woods alone. Just having someone else with you might dissuade an attack. With two of you and a dog, the odds are a cougar will look for an easier meal.

[centershot]

You’ve thought about it all you need to. Buy the shotgun and 4 or 5 boxes of the cheapest shells you can find….they’re fine to practice with at 20 yds in. Guessing you don’t reload so I’d buy 2 3/4” #1 buckshot. All the power at close range, good pattern fill and lots less recoil than 3”.

^^^^ This! The Shockwave is perfect for what you describe, although as already stated, the likelihood of attack is low. Personally, I never go into the forest without a good defensive weapon.

[DougGuy]

The cougar contacts I have seen on youtube are realistic, the cat doesn't attack instantly, unless you somehow manage to get REALLY close to it before it figures out you are there, they size up the challenge first, then they carry out this orderly process that's half stalking half false charges.

You probably scared the cat more than the cat scared you to be honest, first there were two of you, this alone would be a huge deterrent to the cat, he/she likely was already running when it saw you, and I am sure that spurred it on even faster gettin' the hell outta dodge.

Back to the encounter, with a shotgun and buckshot, if you were on rocky ground, shooting at the ground directly in front of the cat (a likely place to hit in the event of a miss) would scatter rocks, dirt, and buckshot in the cat's face (same way police use a diffuser and aim for the pavement in front of a line of protesters, they want the shot to bounce and spread out). By now the cat has probably had enough to change it's mind about continuing to move toward you. You simply do not have this option with a handgun firing a single projectile.

Edit: Ickisrulz' suggestion below to bring a dog along is very good advice. Not only will the dog know there is a predator in the area before you do, but the predator would go for the dog way before it would go for a human.

[Ickisrulz]

if you dont want to get surprised by an animal 10 times quicker than you......take a dog with you....Weighted down with guns and ammo ...when alls needed is an average dog...not some savage monster that the illegal hunters use ,just an average dog.

That pretty much goes for home defense too. Dogs are great.

[trebor44]

Seeing a large cat in the wild is a good thing, not seeing it means you are close to becoming a meal. Really think about it! Bear spray in hand can help, a large caliber weapon is a maybe. If you are concentrating on the hiking and not scanning for predator's (two and four legged) you are at a disadvantage, the event will be up close and personal! Stick with what you have for the present and buy a tool for the future if you so desire!

[RogerDat]

I seem to recall cats are ambush hunters, that typically drop or hit from close in a surprise attack. That argues that any chance to bring a weapon to play in an attack that takes place is going to be point blank or hand to paw combat. I would think any pistol that you can manage to bring to the fight at point blank range deals with a cat. You take your licks but can presume it is a first aid situation rather than an obituary since you did a mag dump at point blank into what was biting you.

Bear I think you could still end up as an obituary with about any handgun in a close in struggle. Recall reading of a hunter with a 20 gauge and bird shot that was killed by a bear. The bear was found dead nearby, had taken a face shot that broke the jaw and caused eventually fatal damage. Firearm didn't do the job for the hunter.

12 gauge slug is a bear stopper, not sure about large buckshot. I would think bear being the more likely threat that one would go prepared for that. Any smaller carry pistol has the advantage of being more likely to be on your person when camping, but walking I would think a 12 gauge, poly stock, minimum barrel length with a comfortable sling makes the most sense from a protection standpoint.

Carry is an issue, any weapon can get heavy after a while. Shotgun you won't carry is useless. Pistol you shift to your day pack because it chafes matters. Not that I think you can outdraw a close charging predator, but having it in hand my make facing one down as you back off easier. Armed I think one presents an entirely different stance and attitude. I had a charging dog with a reputation for biting (dang thing jumped a 5 ft fence to go for myself and dog on a walk) I had a belt knife that came out and I switched to "feed it my bad arm and stab with the good arm" stance and the dog literally slid to a stop and started barking from a snarling charge. They also get cautious about a walking stick that shifts to an offensive/defensive stance. So having some weapon you can bring to the face off I think makes a difference in face off and back up situations.

Those are when having a dog that can be called off and to you to back up makes a big difference. Other than that concern I would be 100% in favor of having a dog. Have a dog now that would be difficult to control, too much attitude and too interested in challenging every darn critter that comes along except other dogs. To be clear pretty sure since dog isn't crazy a bear would get challenged from what seemed like a safe distance, a distance that would double if the bear did any aggressive move.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I try to have a dog along when out wandering, had lions and bears in Colorado, might be some lions here in Wyoming, of course lions and bears (wolves?) where I hunt elk. Mostly have had Chesapeke's to keep the dangerous critters away or distracted. Any dog will detect and distract critters, stay armed to save the dog. I've always debated (with myself) if a revolver or semi-auto would be better in close contact roll around fight, slide interference, poor grip on the semi-auto. I do normally carry a Para-Ord P14-45 but capacity is not the issue though 14 45's does sound good. When carrying a rifle I normally don't carry a handgun.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I live in PA and when I go afield, usually with a dog and a 4'' S&W 629-3 .44 Magnum loaded with RCBS 44-250-K boolits at around 1,000fps. (think 10gr. Unique here). If a self loading pistol would be in order, my first choice would be a 10mm loaded with Hornady 180gr. XTP bullets at around 1,200fps. Second choice, heavy loaded .38 Super, 147gr Hornady XTP at 1,200fps. would do also.

Below is a link to factory loaded handgun ammo and ballistic gel tests that give an idea of what will do what in gel. It's not all inclusive, but you will see what preforms uniformly and, (hopefully) effectively. .380, 9mm, .40, and .45ACP are listed, at the end of the .45ACP test there's links for, .38Spl/.357 Magnum, .357Sig, and 10mm. Look for expansion, penetration, and uniformity. For instance, the 10mm Hornady XTP 180gr. load does all three extremely well, it expands to .64, penetrates to almost 17'', and does it with excellent uniformity. In 9mm the Winchester 147gr. PDX-1 ain't no slouch expanding to .54, penetrating 20.6'' uniformly, and it's a caliber you already have, (though finding the ammo may be a challenge right now). Over all the Hornady XTP bullets, (available for handloading) seem to be very effective and uniform. I use them in .38 Super, 10mm, and .45ACP +P loads in mid-weight/heavy weight bullet loads which the Hornady XTP also shows it's merits.

www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP

I fully agree with who made the statement of having a dog with you, they'll hear, smell, or sense a dangerous animal long before you will.

[Walks]

I took both a Cougar and a Blk Bear in My youth. Both treed over dogs. Used a .357Mag on one and a .30-30 on the other. I spent many long hours "Woods Walking" in the Eastern Sierras. Saw tracks but never a live animal.
Never felt undergunned with a .357Mag, it's what I would probably carry today. If I could.
So load that .38Spl with a good 158gr bullet, and keep hiking.

[waksupi]

For those recommending dogs, dogs have a rather disconcerting habit of running into danger, and bringing it back to you for help!

[Texas by God]

I've been waiting for 47 years to see the SECOND mountain lion on our farm; I'll never forget the first! I never give it a thought when I'm walking around in the post oak forest.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[trebor44]

For armchair reading and enlightenment: "The Beast in the Garden". Interesting accounts and a fun read!

[quilbilly]

We are overrun with the big kitties around here. Unless you are right in towns, the deer population has become almost non-existent. During the week long muzzleloading season two weeks ago around here, I saw more of the cats than I saw deer walking and driving the clearcuts. That is a bad sign for the deer and they have responded well by staying close to houses, roads, and in towns like Port Townsend where it has become virtually impossible to have a garden without an 8 foot fence. Currently, according to the trail cams I have on our property we have a young female lion (not more than 70#) around regularly and a nice sized tom about 180# wandering through about very few weeks. Both look healthy and sleek. It won't be long until the cats begin to starve and that is when I will get nervous especially when I start to tap our maples to make syrup in a couple months. The good news around here is that they have always eaten the coyotes which I detest and that makes them good neighbors - sort of.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I still recommend a dog, but Waksupi is right, I still smile when I remember by Springer running back to us with a 5 point bull elk after her. A shout ended the chase, though I thought a shot over his end might be needed.

[alfadan]

I'd say just carry what ya got. An attack would be so unlikely and since it would probably jump on you from above, a long gun isn't going to be very handy. lugging around a shotgun all the time for a slim chance would be like walking a patrol and standing guard all the time.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Seems like as good an excuse as any to buy a new gun to me.

[GhostHawk]

Shotgun hands down, any shotgun, any load.

Buckshot is good. At close range it does not matter much.

Slung over your right shoulder, muzzle down. Left hand grabs barrel and pulls, right hand grabs action and your ready to go.
When not needed its out of the way. Pistol grip or full stock is up to you.

Don't take a boy to do a man's job.

Ohh and practice. Practice getting it into action from strange postures and situations.
Practice reloading.
When you've run out the tube magazine practice throwing single rounds in the action and slam it shut, shoot it, rack it open, repeat.

And if you only get one shot, well its a lot better shot. And it might scare a cat off, which would be a win win.

[reloader28]

The 38 and 9mm are fine with the right ammo AS LONG AS YOU CARRY IT.
You should be ashamed of yourself. She had your back but who had hers??? Not you
Save your money for good ammo and carry the guns you already have

[Soundguy]

Imho...the 38 is fine..but when walking in the woods..wear it in an external easy draw holster. Bears will usually leave if they hear you...so make noise in bear country...cats on the other hand..they will stalk you..so pay attention. Being in pairs and both armed let's one member draw and shoot if an attack occurs.

[waksupi]

Shotgun hands down, any shotgun, any load.

Buckshot is good. At close range it does not matter much.

Slung over your right shoulder, muzzle down. Left hand grabs barrel and pulls, right hand grabs action and your ready to go.
When not needed its out of the way. Pistol grip or full stock is up to you.

Don't take a boy to do a man's job.

Ohh and practice. Practice getting it into action from strange postures and situations.
Practice reloading.
When you've run out the tube magazine practice throwing single rounds in the action and slam it shut, shoot it, rack it open, repeat.

And if you only get one shot, well its a lot better shot. And it might scare a cat off, which would be a win win.

That sounds a bit backwards from how I've always done it. Muzzle down on LEFT side.

[shooterg]

50% chance you escape damage while walking with girlfriend. Which one of you is fastest ?

[Rapier]

I carry a 4” 357 mag Smith 66 with 162 cast RCBS over H-110 in an Andrews cross draw rig. But I also carry a 6 mm AR-15 in my cart rack in plane sight, when out and about on my tree farm. You never know what you may come across in our 80 acre woods.
As folks clear cut around, the critters move to our woods.

[ascast]

1- take a runny little dog 2- wear a ski type cap with eyes sewn on the back. They say big cats hit people from behind and the eyes put them off. See debate above for guns above. I like the 45 1911, but few peeps argue with a 12 ga pump either.

[RogerDat]

Once sitting around the coals of a dying campfire late at night in the Huron National Forest our Samoyed/Husky mix popped his head up, ears pricked forward and his head slowly tracked the edge of the clearing we were in from left to right. I was very very glad I kept a little pile of twigs by the fire because I tossed the whole handful in and commenced blowing coals to flame really quickly.

Most likely "threat" would have been coyotes, but the area does have bear. Or my least favorite camp critter after skunks the raccoon. That dog killed skunks with a vengeance, most times just getting a little splattered but still stank. Hated racoons too. Got nailed on the muzzle by the first one he tangled with and I guess figured they were all related so going after any raccoon would do to payback for his scar. Only brought one porcupine into camp. Plucking quills from his mouth and muzzle was an experience. Yes he carried the thing in by the throat.

I like a dog in the woods but they can sometimes add to the adventure in unexpected ways. Still I never worried about being surprised with that dog along and he had good trail manners off leash. He also never brought a charging moose or elk back to camp I'm thankful to say. I usually don't pack enough spare shorts for that adventure.

That would be my one concern with buckshot. Dog getting too close to the target trying to challenge or protect putting it at risk for stray shot. Especially if mixing it up with coyotes. Which mostly avoid humans with guns but have been known to ambush dogs.

[nagantguy]

As a frequent traveler in areas where our place on top of the food chain ain’t cut and dry- take this advice for what you paid for it.
Whatever you already have is sufficient for a cat- skill and reaction time are what sounds to be lacking - congratulations ! You had an encounter with a superior predator and not only didn’t get hurt which is extremely rare- look at the numbers , gonna win the lottery meet the love of your life and get struck by lightning twice before getting mauled by a painter’ cat.
But you did take stock of equipment attitude skills training ect. You are already ahead of where you started- so again congratulations!
I’ve had 3 close encounters with a big cat- one we stumbled on each other - me looking for deer and him as well- a quick staring contest and he left with such speed my eyes couldn’t follow what happened .
Second time I was following a wounded coyote- and I think he crossed the blood
Trail and decided it smelled like easy dinner. Again once he saw me he was gone so fast I had to question what really happened.
3rd time packing out an elk- one trip 2 or 3 saw fresh tracks- over our tracks- and on trip 4or 5 saw just a quick glimpse of a big cat going over a rim wall. All three times I was actively hunting and heavily armed and still felt my chances of coming out on top less than 50/50. Especially the time with elk meat strapped to my back in deep snow!
Yep it’s amazing and humbling to come across one , and a reminder the whole
World isn’t just beer and skittles- but predators lurk Everywhere!

[ShooterAZ]

We have a lot of both mountain lions and black bears here in Northern Arizona. The closest encounter I have ever had was actually with a bear. I was glassing for elk at the edge of a canyon and suddenly heard panting right behind me, sounded just like a dog. When I turned around the bear was only about 20 yards away! I never heard him coming, he was that quiet. I yelled some profanities at him, and he took off like a scalded cat. There's a well known hiking trail only 1/4 mile from our house, and a mountain lion once plucked a small dog that was being walked on a leash. Game & Fish hunted that one down and killed him. They are mostly fearful of humans, and tend to avoid them. Having said all that, my ideal sidearm would be a 357 Magnum revolver. Gotta watch out for the hostile 2 legged predators too, you're probably more likely to be confronted with those than a lion or bear.

[Gator 45/70]

We have new arrivals here,The Florida strain Panthers are migrating across the south.
The other strain here most people cant handle.

[Plate plinker]

50% chance you escape damage while walking with girlfriend. Which one of you is fastest ?

Now thats a funny take on the subject. The next one would be how much he is actually invested in her.

[Bmi48219]

You could always try hand to claw combat like this guy: https://www.kktv.com/content/news/Man-reportedly-attacked-by-a-large-cat-on-Colorado-trail-505333641.html

Several years back I read an article about a CO who was practicing turkey calling in preparation for a competition. He was noted for his calling skill. Must have been pretty good as a mountain lion homed in on his calling and attacked him.

[376Steyr]

A truly scary moment in the woods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvSUuWYCGxo Cougar Stalks man - SAVAGE Attack in Utah!

FWIW: In my neck of the woods it is possible to run into mountain lions, black bears, and wolves. When packing meat out, my sidearm of choice is a 4" .44 Magnum with 250 gr. Keith bullets.

[Hickok]

A good quality fixed-blade knife worn on the belt can be a tool, a hatchet, and a great weapon in a wrestling match, if a person is knocked to the ground expectantly while in the woods by any attacker. I like my Kabar and my Buck 119. A good fixed blade is truly "do-all" tool when in the woods.

Any sidearm is good, and a good knife compliments the package while out in the boondocks.

[Three44s]

For those recommending dogs, dogs have a rather disconcerting habit of running into danger, and bringing it back to you for help!

This right here!

Three44s

[farmbif]

2 legged ginseng stealing critters are the worst predators in my neck of the woods this time of year. I carry a 357 mag with 158 grain gold dots.

[Scrounge]

A good quality fixed-blade knife worn on the belt can be a tool, a hatchet, and a great weapon in a wrestling match, if a person is knocked to the ground expectantly while in the woods by any attacker. I like my Kabar and my Buck 119. A good fixed blade is truly "do-all" tool when in the woods.

Any sidearm is good, and a good knife compliments the package while out in the boondocks.

Knives don't run out of bullets on you, either. You can't just stand there and point it at something and expect them to back off, necessarily, but as long as you're holding it, you're dangerous, too. Not that I'd want to tackle a big cat with a knife, but if that's all I've got left, it beats spitting at it.

[Butzbach]

A lot of folks here in Pa . Mistake bobcats for cougars.

So in your experience you’ve seen a lot of Bobcats running down deer?

[Butzbach]

You could always try hand to claw combat like this guy: https://www.kktv.com/content/news/Man-reportedly-attacked-by-a-large-cat-on-Colorado-trail-505333641.html

Several years back I read an article about a CO who was practicing turkey calling in preparation for a competition. He was noted for his calling skill. Must have been pretty good as a mountain lion homed in on his calling and attacked him.

Doh!

[Mal Paso]

My neighbor took the photo last week behind our houses. I thought the deer were hanging a little close to the house.

You can debate all you want whether you will have time to use a gun. To me it's not relevant. A gun changes your attitude and that may be enough. If you don't behave like prey then you won't be prey and you will have something to do if 'it hits the fan.

I have cougar around both of my places and bear up north. I decided early on I wouldn't be disciplined enough to pick up the 12ga every time I went out but a revolver on my hip I could get used to. I wear one of 2, 4 inch 44Mags with Keith #503s loaded to 1300 fps, not a rifle but close.

[Geezer in NH]

To the OP I noted that the cat ran off as soon as he saw the two humans.

Second noted she was prepared but you sure were not. Failure on your part.

For future I suggest easy answer CARRY yours with you along with her carrying.

[BigAlofPa.]

No never even saw a bob cat. I've heard them at night camping on the mountain though. Only thing i have seen chasing deer was a pack of germen shepherds when i was kid.

[popper]

Carry a load for bear, you'll never see the cougar attack or it will happen so fast you don't have much chance to shoot. They leap a long way, fast. IF you can convince the warden of possible deer damage, go for it.:drinks:
ps: as a kid, brown bear about 10' away decided the hatchet in my hand wasn't worth it, or just wasn't interested. That cougar bumped the bottom slideout bed on the camper while finishing the trash I (forgot) left there. Sat up for a long time with a 380.

[Mal Paso]

you'll never see the cougar attack

Never say never.

About 8 years ago some older (look who's talking) friends of mine lived about a mile from where I am now. She was taking an afternoon nap in their bedroom and woke up to find the neighbors dog with his head under the bed after her cat. She rolled up a magazine and swatted the dog on the rump. Her husband heard the noise and entered the room. The dog backed out from under the bed except it was a mountain lion. It tried to get out through a full length mirror shattering it. The unarmed husband backed into a corner and the cougar finally found her way out.

Sometimes all you need is a magazine.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I remember reading about a mountain lion attack on a hiking trail in California. Lion had a woman by the head and was trying to drag her into the brush off the trail. Her companions had the women by the feet in a kind of tug of war. Once the animal has closed and is biting someone a companion has time to shoot it.

[GL49]

I always preferred revolvers over an auto in the woods. 44 mag, loaded to a bit below maximum 44mag levels, heavy cast boolits. Or 45 Colt, loaded a little below "Ruger Only" loads if the revolver was built for them. Once again, heavy cast boolits. That's for 4-legged critters. I'll stay out of the fight about which is better, double action or single action.
Now, if you're figuring you may meet up with some of the 2-legged ones and you have only the funds to purchase one handgun, the 45acp would be my choice. Cases are easy to find, load 'em down for practice, load 'em up with stronger springs for carry. A couple of extra magazines take up very little space in your pocket. Around here the Meth or Cannabis cultivators usually have more than shovels.
I've found that something long over my shoulder can be a bother, vs. a handgun in a shoulder or chest holster. More than once I've hidden my shotgun or rifle in the woods, picking it up on my way out at the end of the day.
The difference is what is comfortable for you, what you can use quickly, and what gives you peace of mind. Like you, I'm not Jerry Miculek and the 12 shots in my 6906 won't do me a bit of good for sneaky critters of the 4-legged variety. My Smith and Wessons go with me on nice days, the Rugers can go on any day.
I've also be known to tuck my j-frame .357 in my back pocket or coat pocket. That's only on days when it's better to keep it hidden.

[BunkTheory]

^^^^ This! The Shockwave is perfect for what you describe, although as already stated, the likelihood of attack is low. Personally, I never go into the forest without a good defensive weapon.


yeah preperation is everything, i asked my buddy about the cougar attacks he has suffered through over the years. He admitted situational awareness was at fault, and that buying them a drink was normally enough for him to escape to freedom.