Trying to figure out what sizing die to get for pre 64 30-30 Winchester 94

[Stopsign32v]

Well I have nothing small enough to push down the bore of this thing or I was going to shove a 36cal lead round ball nose down and measure.

So here I am just wondering, what sizing die would you guys recommend? I know some run the .309 but then I also read some run the .311. Is it true biggest is better (no pun, and it's NOT true!)? Would running a .311 when you really need a .309 do any premature damage to the rifle?

[Dom]

Unless you actually slug your bore I would go with .309. Best to slug first & get the correct size the first time.

[Stopsign32v]

Unless you actually slug your bore I would go with .309. Best to slug first & get the correct size the first time.

Would going from muzzle to receiver and then measuring largest point be the useful way?

[GregLaROCHE]

Would going from muzzle to receiver and then measuring largest point be the useful way?

Yes. That can work.

[45-70 Chevroner]

If your 36 round ball is pure lead you can carefully tap it into the muzzle then use a ram rod with a cloth patch to push it all the way through the bore, hold the rifle up side down with the breach open and let the ball fall out onto a thick piece of cloth then measure. This will give you a good reference. Buy a sizer 2 thousandth over bore diameter.

[Stopsign32v]

If your 36 round ball is pure lead you can carefully tap it into the muzzle then use a ram rod with a cloth patch to push it all the way through the bore, hold the rifle up side down with the breach open and let the ball fall out onto a thick piece of cloth then measure. This will give you a good reference. Buy a sizer 2 thousandth over bore diameter.

You gave me an idea and I used my carbon fiber brass tipped cleaning rod. Worked pretty good

The largest point I could see was .308 but this is a 1955 model and I do not believe it has been shot very often. What do you guys say, .309 or .311? Right now I'm casting some Lee C309-150-F and some C309-170-F. I have gas checks for them as an option too if needed.

[DougGuy]

Buy a sizer 2 thousandth over bore diameter.

That only works *IF* the throat is of sufficient diameter to chamber a loaded round .002" over groove diameter.

The best thing to do is size to fit the throat. The freebore in the throat will be at the very least the same as groove diameter, likely it is larger so you want to size to fit that. Wouldn't want to size greater than the freebore, loaded rounds won't chamber.

Also, the neck area of the chamber needs to be sufficient diameter to chamber the loaded round and it will be larger with larger diameter boolits so comes a point where one will interfere, either the neck or the throat, so having a cerrosafe casting or a pound cast of the chamber and throat would tell you all you need to know about what size boolits your rifle will chamber. Sizing to fit the bore is the least concern.

[GregLaROCHE]

You gave me an idea and I used my carbon fiber brass tipped cleaning rod. Worked pretty good

The largest point I could see was .308 but this is a 1955 model and I do not believe it has been shot very often. What do you guys say, .309 or .311? Right now I'm casting some Lee C309-150-F and some C309-170-F. I have gas checks for them as an option too if needed.

If you already have the C309s, you should load them and give them a try. There’s a good chance they will work for you. Gas checks are always a plus, especially if the boolit was designed for one.

[ABJ]

As Dougguy said, in lever actions the nose is going to be the issue most of the time. Example, my lyman 30 160 RN throws a body of .310 and a nose pushing .302. My Lee 30 150 FN throws a body of .310 and a nose of .299. The lee will shoot very well in every lever I have tried it in crimped in the crimp groove. The Lyman will NOT chamber in any lever I have tried unless I seat deeper and crimp on the front driving band.
Accuracy is the same for both sized at .310. .311 is my preferred if the boolit drops at .310 or larger.
Tony

[bedbugbilly]

And if it is questionable if your boolit diameter will chamber - load a couple of dummy rounds and try yjem. I had a 94 and a Marlin and the dummy rounds will tell you a lot. S=Don't crimp the boolit in the dummy round - let the neck tension hold it in place. I had an odd boolit that when the dummy round chambered, it told me I had to seat deeper as it pushed the boolit back further into the neck. I don't remember who made the mold - I believe it was an old custom one. It would feed but not chamber - with it seated deeper, it still fed just fine.

If you have the 309 molds - measure to see what they drop at and load some and try them. In the two 30-30s I had, a 309 shot fine. Your rifle will let you know.

[45-70 Chevroner]

That only works *IF* the throat is of sufficient diameter to chamber a loaded round .002" over groove diameter.

The best thing to do is size to fit the throat. The freebore in the throat will be at the very least the same as groove diameter, likely it is larger so you want to size to fit that. Wouldn't want to size greater than the freebore, loaded rounds won't chamber.

Also, the neck area of the chamber needs to be sufficient diameter to chamber the loaded round and it will be larger with larger diameter boolits so comes a point where one will interfere, either the neck or the throat, so having a cerrosafe casting or a pound cast of the chamber and throat would tell you all you need to know about what size boolits your rifle will chamber. Sizing to fit the bore is the least concern.

Yes you are right, I was think of my 1925 30-30 W 94, it will chamber 3 thousandth over. My RCBS 180gr is a bore rider sized to .311.

[gwpercle]

I went with a .309" sizing die and the
Lee C309-170-F & Lee C309-115-F
I tumbled lubed the C309-115-F and tried them w/o gas checks and accuracy was dismal .
After that I always slap a GC on them ... just makes my life easier .
My Model 94 is about 1974 production and sized to .309" works just fine ...
Don't tell anyone but I've never slugged the bore of this one ...don't fix it if it ain't broken !
Gary

[Mk42gunner]

Knowing what I know now, I believe that sizing for the throat is the best way to go. How you get that measurement is up to you, either a chamber cast or a pound slug. About the only thing slugging the bore really does is tell you if there are tight or loose spots in the barrel. Of course it took me slugging a lot of barrels to come to that conclusion.

I have cast for three different .30-30's, although oddly never a Winchester, (H&R, Marlin, and a Savage). They all did okay with a 0.311" boolit, not to say they wouldn't do well with something smaller but as Gary said: "Don't fix it if it ain't broken".

Good Luck with that sweet little carbine you got.

Robert

[Larry Gibson]

Winchester chambers for the M94 back then (pre 64) had very little "throat" In my pre 64 M94 if I use cases with necks long enough to just fit the chamber neck a 311041 seated to the crimp groove will just have the front edge of the drive band engraved by the leade/rifling. I size the cast bullets for both my M94s at .311 and haven't had any problems. Never slugged either bore BTW.

[Stopsign32v]

Well this Lee die with my lead drops at .310

I just got a Lee .311 push through die to put the gas checks on.