Annealing Results / Feedback

[tbpollard]

I spent the weekend putting together a system for annealing, and I wanted to see if anyone could help provide feedback on the results. Attached is a piece of brass with 750 tempilaq applied. I tried to set the annealing time based on when the brass first shows a faint glow. Ignore the condition of the brass as I've been testing with it several times and some of those instances pushed the brass well past 750 degrees.

This piece ran for 6 seconds starting at room temp. Is the heat progressing too low on the case? Anything else I should look for while I'm trying to get this process tuned?

[JimB..]

I usually paint inside the neck with 750, heat is applied at the bottom of the neck, when the tempilac changes the case is done. I’ve never tried putting it on the outside of the case, but my guess is that you’re heating more than I do fwiw.

[toot]

now that is technical?!

[rayh]

You might want to thin the TempLac. I do a lot of small caliber annealing. They sell a thinner , Brownells handles it or did. When it's thick it takes awhile to melt where with a wash coat melts as soon as that temp is reached. I usually put 450 near the base as a check to prevent the base over heating. You don't need a lot. I use a Ken Light, once I have it set, I run a batch and every now and then put a case with TempLac on to verify.

[georgerkahn]

tbpollard --Annealing is, imho, quite the science. I've used sockets + Bernzo- torch; the similar Hornady methodology (their's resembles sockets); a custom annealing tip for the Bernzo- torch (http://www.woodchuckden.com/); and, I even sprung for (my favourite!) a Giraud annealer (https://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-cartridge-case-annealer.html).
While the process sounds simple, I've learned (?) there is quite a narrow window of annealing perfection on brass cases. Too much heat compounded with too much time, and the brass is ruined! A few seconds too short time-wise and/or too low on hear, and nothing much has changed. :(
You have NOT indicated your methodology -- are you using a torch or two?; or, perhaps the new kid on the block: Induction?
I ALWAYS put TempLaq on my set-up cases as well as one or two interspersed as I'm annealing a lot, AT THE CASE'S BOTTOM! (450*F) To my thinking, that is the part one wants NOT to soften!!!
My highly recommended "go to" tool/gauge for successful (or not :() annealing is a pair of ViceGrip Pliers. (Nothing else works!) Lock the pliers so they are quite snug on case mouth, and then turn the screw ~ 1/2 turn more. After annealing (drum roll here) use the ViceGrips as set, and see if the brass springs back. If it does, you have been successful! If it bends from the ViceGrip and does NOT return, imho the brass is now too soft to hold a bullet as one would hope for. And... if too soft near bottom... a (possible quite severe!!!) accident waiting to happen.
Good luck!
geo

[15meter]

How bright is the ambient light? Bright room and by time you see a faint glow you are probably too hot.

I do mine in an almost dark room, glow from an old TV with an 1940's vintage film noir playing. Dark enough I have a hard time finding and picking up the brass with a pliers to be held between two propane torches pointed at each other to make one flame. A flame on the torches set just above going out.

See a glow, dunk the neck in water to quench. Then back in the loading block before going back into the polisher to take the tarnish off the case from the torches.

Never fooled with the templaq stuff. I've been pretty pleased with my results. Not too hot, not too cold, it's just right.

And I polish the brass stoopid long before annealing plus a quick wipe of the necks with acetone on a paper towel before annealing. I want the neck COMPLETELY clean before annealing.

I like my technique, I've done some pretty high buck and or weird brass multiple times this way and it's held up quite well. Like taking 7mm Mag out to 458 Win Mag in one fire forming kaboom after annealing my way.

I also have all the brass deprimed before annealing, during the dunk, it lets the water up in to the case faster to quench faster.

YMMV.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Toooo complicated! I just stand them in a pan of water up to a bit below the necks. No electric lights, but windows and open doors are fine. Fire up the hand held propane torch and play it on the necks one or two at a time until they turn orange. That's a little past red. While still orange, tip them over into the water using a short piece of welding rod ('cause it goes into the mouths easily). The resulting brass is easy to reform.

DG

[JimB..]

How bright is the ambient light? Bright room and by time you see a faint glow you are probably too hot.

I do mine in an almost dark room, glow from an old TV with an 1940's vintage film noir playing. Dark enough I have a hard time finding and picking up the brass with a pliers to be held between two propane torches pointed at each other to make one flame. A flame on the torches set just above going out.

See a glow, dunk the neck in water to quench. Then back in the loading block before going back into the polisher to take the tarnish off the case from the torches.

Never fooled with the templaq stuff. I've been pretty pleased with my results. Not too hot, not too cold, it's just right.

And I polish the brass stoopid long before annealing plus a quick wipe of the necks with acetone on a paper towel before annealing. I want the neck COMPLETELY clean before annealing.

I like my technique, I've done some pretty high buck and or weird brass multiple times this way and it's held up quite well. Like taking 7mm Mag out to 458 Win Mag in one fire forming kaboom after annealing my way.

I also have all the brass deprimed before annealing, during the dunk, it lets the water up in to the case faster to quench faster.

YMMV.

Why do you want the neck to be so clean before annealing, doesn’t affect the metallurgy and acetone is highly flammable. Also, why bother polishing off the oxides after annealing?

[15meter]

Why do you want the neck to be so clean before annealing, doesn’t affect the metallurgy and acetone is highly flammable. Also, why bother polishing off the oxides after annealing?

Pure and simply for appearance.

I like purty reloads.

And the acetone flashes off almost instantly, the cleaner the case the less nasty stain during annealing.

[JimB..]

Pure and simply for appearance.

I like purty reloads.

And the acetone flashes off almost instantly, the cleaner the case the less nasty stain during annealing.

Won’t judge, I prefer the look of the annealed brass.

[Wayne Smith]

I spent the weekend putting together a system for annealing, and I wanted to see if anyone could help provide feedback on the results. Attached is a piece of brass with 750 tempilaq applied. I tried to set the annealing time based on when the brass first shows a faint glow. Ignore the condition of the brass as I've been testing with it several times and some of those instances pushed the brass well past 750 degrees.

This piece ran for 6 seconds starting at room temp. Is the heat progressing too low on the case? Anything else I should look for while I'm trying to get this process tuned?

If you are attempting to anneal the shoulder then no, you are not going too low. If you are simply attempting to anneal the neck then yes, you are going too low. You see the conundrum - we don't know how you are doing it or what you are intending to accomplish. Thus advice is difficult.

[tbpollard]

Using induction, with a home made setup. I can see the brass glow with the lights off for just a few tenths of a second. If the lights are on I can see some change in color briefly, but no glow. I'll get the vice grips a test as well.

[15meter]

Won’t judge, I prefer the look of the annealed brass.

Not sure there needs any judgement, I am trying to avoid nasty burnt on brown crud as opposed to normal indications of an annealed neck. The less clean the case, the more prone to brown, almost black staining.

My cases do show annealing, a quick pass through the polisher just brightens them up and puts a little sealer on them to keep them from tarnishing in storage.

I use walnut shells with a healthy dose of NuFinish car polish.

And my method of just dunking the top 1/3 of the cases let's them dry way faster than knocking them over and filling the entire case with water. I've annealed, dunked, polished and reload in a 2 hour stretch. Not sure I would reload fully immersed cases that quickly.

Just like purty brass, YMMV.

[FLINTNFIRE]

The water is a waste of time unless wanting to pick right up as brass we use is not like a steel being heated , I anneal and drop in a pan no need to dry as no water involved as none is needed .

But to each their own proof is in the pudding as they say , and I have seen no thread here where anyone agreed on color time temp and method , you have to soften the brass but only a little , and only at the neck to shoulder spot .

Best to try your way and see if it works by doing a set number of cases and a trial of how they last , as you will get every ones opinions and ideas and few agreeing .

[GregLaROCHE]

Here’s a method that works for me. I have a mini lathe and I chuck a bore brush in it, that I can slip a case over it and it holds. I have a propane torch positioned so it heats the neck, but not too close, so I don’t have to work that fast. I figure out the time needed, slip a case on the brush with leather gloves then pull it off when time is up. I keep the lathe turning at a slow speed when I pull off the case and put on another. This seems to work very efficiently for me.

[JimB..]

Not sure there needs any judgement, I am trying to avoid nasty burnt on brown crud as opposed to normal indications of an annealed neck. The less clean the case, the more prone to brown, almost black staining.

My cases do show annealing, a quick pass through the polisher just brightens them up and puts a little sealer on them to keep them from tarnishing in storage.

I use walnut shells with a healthy dose of NuFinish car polish.

And my method of just dunking the top 1/3 of the cases let's them dry way faster than knocking them over and filling the entire case with water. I've annealed, dunked, polished and reload in a 2 hour stretch. Not sure I would reload fully immersed cases that quickly.

Just like purty brass, YMMV.
Apologies, I mistakenly thought that you were wet tumbling after annealing specifically to remove the oxidation from annealing.

[15meter]

Apologies, I mistakenly thought that you were wet tumbling after annealing specifically to remove the oxidation from annealing.

Again, no apologies necessary, It's how I do it and I'm happy with the results. There are more ways to anneal than I can count, even if I take my shoes off.

When you're loading for things like this:

206063

I like purty brass. It's kinda like NOT putting curb feelers on a Cobra.

[JimB..]

Again, no apologies necessary, It's how I do it and I'm happy with the results. There are more ways to anneal than I can count, even if I take my shoes off.

When you're loading for things like this:

206063

I like purty brass. It's kinda like NOT putting curb feelers on a Cobra.
Pretty gun!

[15meter]

Here’s a method that works for me. I have a mini lathe and I chuck a bore brush in it, that I can slip a case over it and it holds. I have a propane torch positioned so it heats the neck, but not too close, so I don’t have to work that fast. I figure out the time needed, slip a case on the brush with leather gloves then pull it off when time is up. I keep the lathe turning at a slow speed when I pull off the case and put on another. This seems to work very efficiently for me.

I've got a South Bend 9x24, may have to give this a try.

[Combatmedic63]

I just bought a Bench Source by Vertex with the dual torch setup and I am very pleased with the results. I also use thinner (McMaster-Carr sells it) and paint inside the case mouth with 650* Tempilaq.