My first foray into black

[Lead melter]

As the title suggests, this may be my first step into the "dark world". Thinking kind of simple, and you possibly fun. I'm thinking 30-30 with a 170 gain Lee or 165 grain Ranch Dog in a Marlin 336.

Anyone got any suggestions, loads, do-this-but-don't-do-thats, or do I have too much time on my hands?

How about clean-up. A real PITA?

Guide this virgin down the road.

[Nobade]

Neither of those bullets carry much lube. In that small bore, you'll likely have to wipe between shots if you want much in the way of accuracy. I have shot 30-30 quite a bit with BP, but don't find it a very satisfying experience. 38-55 and up is way easier to get to work well. But to try it, make sure you droptube your powder into the case, shoot for maybe .100" compression, cast your bullets soft without antimony, and have a go at it. Cleanup is way easier than smokeless powder, just use water as solvent. Oil afterward so you don't get any rust, and the cases need to be deprimed and wet tumbled or washed out somehow as soon as you get home from the range.
Not to worry, you won't hurt anything but you may be frustrated trying to get good accuracy from such a small bore and fast twist.

[Boz330]

What Nobade said, I tried a 32 and it was pretty frustrating. 38-55 is much easier. As far as clean up use Mike Venturino's concoction, 1 bottle of vinegar Windex in a gallon jug fill up with water. Cleaning solution for a lifetime. After a BPCRS match I usually run 2 wet patches through my gun 2 dry patches and an oily patch with Balistol, done. My smokeless guns aren't that easy, but you do have to do it, no letting them sit till tomorrow.

Bob

[Boerrancher]

Mix up some Moose Milk by using Balistol and water. Use 2 oz balistol to 14 oz of water. Put it in a 16 oz spray bottle. Spray your bore, receiver, and internal parts, that got coated with the soot. Spray 2 patches to saturation and run them down the bore, followed by 2 Dry patches, and then a strait patch coated with pure Balistol and you are done.

As far as the 30-30 goes, the whole reason Winchester came out with the 32 was for the folks who didn't trust that new unreliable smokeless powder. IIRC the 32 came loaded with the Holy Black and fired a bullet with a larger lube groove than the original 30-30. It was not successful because smokeless won out, and even at a slightly larger bore dia and large lube groove, it almost needed cleaned every shot. Folks just were not willing to put up with the headache when they could shoot smokeless or the 38-55?

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[cajun shooter]

If you use a bullet with large lube grooves of which I don't think is available for your rifle. Bp requires lube to work. You might want to wait until you have the correct componets. All the molds that I see made by Lyman at this time are GC and that's a no-no with BP. I shot a CAS match on Saturday and cleaned my guns today. Not a PITA as you said but quite easy. Use the info posted by Boarrancher.

[BPCR Bill]

Some things to ponder. Bottleneck cartridges foul barrels and throats much more than straight cases. Lever guns are a real PITA to clean when firing black powder. That is why most of us are using single shots. Also, the barrel muzzle needs to be flat, no noticeable crown. Same thing, fouling. You'll get some flyers. Other than that, have at it!!

Regards,
Bill

[Don McDowell]

You'll need to lube those bullets with a good bp lube. Also getting ahold of some Goex 3f express powder, and some 31 cal lubed wads (the ones the cap and ball guns use) will help thing considerable.
Make sure the powder charge will be above the base of the neck, and the wad and bullet are in firm contact with the powder charge. Don't compress the powder much if any bottle necks don't particularly get along with compressed black, like straight walled cases do.
The 30-30 can be made to shoot reasonably well with black, but I'm not sure its worth the effort, altho it is something fun to mess with for a change of pace.

[Catshooter]

Also, the barrel muzzle needs to be flat, no noticeable crown. Same thing, fouling. You'll get some flyers. Other than that, have at it!!

Regards,
Bill

No crown? Can you go into some detail on that please? Never heard about that before and I'm curious about what a crown would do. Thanks.


Cat

[BPCR Bill]

Cat, if you notice "Most" BPCR rifles, like Sharps and such, you will notice the muzzle end is flat. Many of the old original rifles like Winchester, Marlin, Remington all were without crown. Reason being black powder fouling tends to build up on a crowned muzzle and will cause fliers. One buddy had a Browning 78, 40-65, with a Badger barrel that had a pronounced, deep crown, and he would have more problems with accuracy after 3 or 4 shots. He would have to stop and clean all the junk off the crown to continue shooting. I spoke with Dan Pharris, he smithed at Shiloh Sharps years ago and is a very good smith, as well as a number of other single shot gurus, and they are all in agreement that a crown in a barrel is absolutely the last thing you want in a Black Powder rifle. My buddy had the crown turned flat on his Browning and the problem went away. This problem does not manifest itself with smokeless loads.

Regards,
Bill

[Catshooter]

Well look at that. Thanks Bill for taking the time for such a good answer. I had no idea.

You'er right, I have noticed that flat crown on BP rifles, but didn't think too much of it.

If a guy's not careful he can learn somethin' every day, esp if he comes to this site.


Cat

[BPCR Bill]

Cat, You are very welcome. I am by no means a know it all, and I am still figuring out some angles of this sport after 20 years at it. I'm here to learn as well!

Regards,
Bill

[cajun shooter]

Any person that has Teddy in his signature line is one ok person in my book Sir. I'm happy to read your post as they are informative.

[StrawHat]

Cat, if you notice "Most" BPCR rifles, like Sharps and such, you will notice the muzzle end is flat. Many of the old original rifles like Winchester, Marlin, Remington all were without crown...
Regards,
Bill

Interesting, I had noticed it but never realized what I saw.

My italian rolling block has a slight crown perhaps I need to rework it and my trapdoors.

Athough, I am thinking this applies more to octagon barrels than to round ones.

[BPCR Bill]

Interesting, I had noticed it but never realized what I saw.

My italian rolling block has a slight crown perhaps I need to rework it and my trapdoors.

Athough, I am thinking this applies more to octagon barrels than to round ones.

StrawHat, I'm not sure why your Italian Roller would have a crown, but my Uberti Highwall has a flat muzzle as it shoud be. As for the old trapdoor military rifles, the purpose of a crown first and foremost is to protect the rifling at the end of the muzzle. Many military rifles in an issued state are not built for great accuarcy. They are intended to get alot of lead downrange, and most rifles will see some pretty severe use in battle, or just being handled and fired in training. If your trapdoors are original I would not turn those barrels. My brother owns an original Roller saddle ring carbine in 43 Spanish, short round barrel, and it has a radially crowned barrel. I think that rifle was built on contract for the Mexican Federale's at one time in the dim past. I guess the question of why some of these manufacturers crowned some of these old BP barrels could only be answerewd by them, but it remains that a flat muzzle will give the best accuracy with black powder.

Regards,
Bill