Factory loads are safe?

[44Blam]

So, I haven't really shot factory ammo (except in certification/training where required) in a very long time and so I don't know the current state of things...

Until Saturday. My buddy was shooting Winchester white box. I was watching him shoot a stage and I saw what I thought was a squib: Didn't cycle a little funny sound and some smoke out the ejection port. I ran up to my friend who was about to "clear the malfunction" and yelled "STOP!!!!" because I've seen squibs and that was what it looked like...

So we clear him, clear the gun and make sure that there was no obstruction in the barrel. There was none.

Turns out what happened was a primer got seated in SIDEWAYS. So the striker hit the side of the primer and didn't set of the powder nor did the freedom seed travel anywhere.

Yikes.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have seen factory ammo come through with primers seated backward, bullet seated backwards, bullets seated waaaay to deep and a couple of split cases. All pistol ammo. and of course everyone who shoots a .22 rimfire has had the occasional dud.

[JSnover]

So that was one. Out of how many millions?
And let's not forget, "Never Shoot Anyone Else's Reloads"
Factory loads are as safe as anything else, if the average handloader cranked out as many rounds as the factories we'd hear more stories like this.

[DocSavage]

Sounds like the discount line of ammo
from the various ammo companies. Only factory ammo I had a problem with was from PMC they were making 40/65 ammo at the time bought 6 boxes and 10 rounds of it the cases were badly crushed. PMC replaced them and gave me an extra box for my trouble this was 30 years ago and I still have the brass.

[LIMPINGJ]

He must not have been paying attention to the cartridges as they were being loaded. Kind of hard to miss seeing a primer seated sideways.

[Hossfly]

Never seen a factory round with a primer problem, my son has had some lately that wouldn’t fire, sent back for replacement. I’ve personally seated a primer sideways, but it felt funny going down with lever and I caught it luckily. Have had 1-2 squibs from my reloading till I changed and added a powder check die to the Dillon 650.

[farmbif]

ive never seen that but hardly ever shoot factory boxed ammo. I have seated a primer sideways and it was bear to get out of the priming tool, put on my safety goggles and leather gloves and persuaded it out with a small hydraulic seal pick after taking the whole press and everything outdoors away from any other powder or primers

[littlejack]

Years ago, had a friend fire a factory round out of his 9mm. It sounded odd or different than the previous rounds fired. The empty case cleared the ejection port. He didn't realize something didn't sound right. He stood aiming and ready to finish emptying the magazine when I yelled, STOP! He did, and we checked the barrel. Yep, sho-nuff, there was the slug stuck in the bore. It happens.

[gwpercle]

Hate to say it but the truth is ... there is nothing 100% SAFE in this world .
I've reloaded for 50+ years and the only double charge I've ever had was with Winchester Wildcat 22 LR ammo , loaded by Winchester ... When the round went off it damaged the 10/22 magazine , blew the ejector to kingdom come and damaged the recoil spring and rod ... I had to Return it to Ruger for Repair ...they replaces a lot of parts , magazine and latching parts ...
So don't assume factories load perfect amm ... they dont !
Like LttleJack says ... It Happens :holysheep
Gary

[megasupermagnum]

Factories mess up a lot more rounds than 1 in a million. Anyone who has shot factory ammo has found problems. While I've never seen a primer seated sideways, I've found more than one with them in backwards. One was not that long ago either on a premium line of handgun ammo. 22 longrifle ammo can be horrendous. We once bought a big bucket of Remington ammo, I forget the name. You couldn't hit squat with that stuff. Every shot was unique, it could go poof, pop, or bang, or just be a dud. I ran some over the chronograph, and saw anywhere from 650 to 1300 fps from that stuff. Called Remington, got the run around. Finally just dumped them in a fire and watched the show.

Most of my factory ammo shooting is shotgun ammo. You can find all kinds of problems with shotgun ammo. Back before I loaded all my hunting loads, I'd find plenty with goofy crimps. Steel shot especially, you find some wonky crimps. In all time I've been reloading, I've only had a single round fail to fire, and that was a flat out bad primer, not my fault. I've had a few bloopers when trying experimental loads, but that's why I was testing. I can recall at least 4 factory shotgun rounds fail to fire, 1 pistol round fail, and of course those 22LR rounds numerous were duds.

[oldblinddog]

.22 Rimfire rounds (all sizes) that don’t fire the first time will usually go bang if you rotate them 90 degrees (+/-) and hit them again. Since most all of my .22 rifles are single shot except my Browning BL-22, this is not a problem for me.

[Burnt Fingers]

Hate to say it but the truth is ... there is nothing 100% SAFE in this world .
I've reloaded for 50+ years and the only double charge I've ever had was with Winchester Wildcat 22 LR ammo , loaded by Winchester ... When the round went off it damaged the 10/22 magazine , blew the ejector to kingdom come and damaged the recoil spring and rod ... I had to Return it to Ruger for Repair ...they replaces a lot of parts , magazine and latching parts ...
So don't assume factories load perfect amm ... they dont !
Like LttleJack says ... It Happens :holysheep
Gary

I've pulled bullets on a lot of 22 LR. I've yet to see one that had the case capacity for a double charge.

[jim147]

When Winchester loads 9MM, it rains from the sky. It loads big four foot totes in minutes. In today's messed up world I'm sure QC is not at the top of the list.

[dverna]

If every factory round was perfect, it would be even more expensive than it is now. It is amazing how good factory ammunition is. Think about the millions of rounds produced.

I do not produced perfect reloads unless I need to. Powder drops are not perfect on the progressives. There is a slight variation but it is acceptable. I do not trim pistol brass or sort it. Rifle loads made on the single stage presses are as perfect as I can make them and outshoot factory ammunition. I do not need that level of quality in shotgun and pistol ammunition.

.22 bargain ammunition is the worst but I deal with it. Most of what I have is in the $1.50/2.00 a box range so I am not expecting Eley reliability or consistency. I am too cheap to spend over $10/box for .22's. Although I did use Eley Pistol Match for Bullseye matches back in the day.

[GregLaROCHE]

In the past I shot a lot of factory ammo and never had a problem, except for the occasional 22Lf.

[trapper9260]

I had a 22lr that at the time I did not realize that it did not exit the barrel when I was on the trap line about it ,I had a squid . luck for me that I had no problems when it did went out when fired the next round out my Ruger single six. Never again will I let that happened again ,I bring a dowel now with me for just incase it happened again on the line , it did no damage to the gun or barrel , I did had 22lr did not go off and after when I got home I took apart the round and found that the primer powder was not on the bottom of the case it fell out of the case with the powder. I had others that did not go off also that is what I found on them also. Very few it was that they need to be turn like stated.

[gunarea]

Just this past month my buddy got a particular lot number of Federal shotshells that have no propellant. Although there was no apology, they sent replacements. Fortunately he was shooting an autoloader so the action never cycled. Shot cleared the barrel but gas check and shot cup obstructed the bore. Nothing man made is fool proof!

[georgerkahn]

For what it's worth, maybe 45(?) years back my sister and b.i.l. came to visit and I splurged on a box of FACTORY .38WCF ammo from a not-too-distant hardware store for some .38-40 range shooting. Labeled/sold as "factory", it was my sister who noted one of the 50 rounds in box had a different manufacturer's headstamp. When I later brought this to store-owner's attention, thinking it was a FACTORY anomaly -- guess what? The owner told me he bought these from a source which does commercial reloads -- as opposed to an individual -- hence, were factory new. (e.g., albeit NOT from original manufacturing company ;))
I learned something...
My thought is there IS that chance (???) the factory white box ammo was made in was not necessarily the ORIGINAL one?
(Just an early a.m. recollection/thought...)
geo

[MrWolf]

Think I still have a new Remington 12 ga trap load that has no rim. Just the one out of the box was like that.

[LenH]

Someone gave me some Remington Standard velocity ammo in a square plastic box. Mind you the guy that gave them to me knew nothing about guns or ammo. These were
a birthday gift. I took one box to a .22 Bullseye match. Out of that box were 10 duds. The other 4 boxes are still put up, I wouldn't use that stuff unless there was nothing else.
That was the longest match and the worst score I have ever had.

[crackers]

So many good reasons to carry a revolver - stuffed with reloads.

[Walks]

Back in H.S. in the 1960's We shot a LOT of Trap some Skeet. My Dad would buy a dozen cases of Win 12AA. And that was back when a case on shotgun shells were 20 boxes to the case.
Shooting an NSSA Match as Junior, I was up on the line for my 3rd rd. Had a 50 straight working on a 75 straight. 23 straight took the option at 8, CLICK !!!!! A BLASTED DUD, A FACTORY DUD !!!!.
It rattled Me something terrible. I didn't shoot above a 23 for the rest of the weekend.
No anvil in the primer.
I still have a Remington .25-06 round with a malformed neck from 45yrs ago.

Trust factory ammo ? Nope never, seen too many bad factory rounds of all type. Even a box of Federal 7mm Mauser without powder in 2 cartridges.

[megasupermagnum]

So many good reasons to carry a revolver - stuffed with reloads.

I'm not saying all reloads are great, but with a little critical thinking, most people should realize you can make ammo better than anyone. When I load ammo for hunting, or defensive use, I'm weighing every bullet. I'm weighing every powder drop. Every component is getting visually checked multiple times, including the primers. I do look at every primer that goes into them. The only way that a round inspected like this can fail is if the primer was not filled right. I have had that happen, a CCI 550 that failed to fire, it had the anvil, but when I decapped, I found it was only about half full of compound. That was the one and only handload I ever had fail that wasn't experimental.

I used to work on a lot of equipment for quality control, although nothing on the level I'm sure ammo factories use. I'm sure they are using check weighers in conjunction with human visual, but moving quickly down a line. They simply can not compete with a person who spends an hour to load 20 perfect rounds.

[444ttd]

i started reloading at about 19 or 20yo, so i have nothing to contribute on centerfire rifles. i have had duds on 22 lr way before the current problems.

[GONRA]

Some years ago, Century Arms had 1000 rd. cases 10mm ammo for sale cheep.
(Century Arms CLEARLY mentioned it was screwed up!)
Turned out to be U.S.&A. Commercial (nice 50 rd. boxes for Law Enforcement?)
with some primers seated upside down.

Shoots great in GONRA's Star MegaStar (from CDNN closeout...)
Some day will cull out Bad News - repackage.
Expect to end up with 950+ rds. 10mm cheep shootin' ammo!

[bedbugbilly]

Hmmmmmmm . . . . Maybe 15 years ag I bought a 1920s era S & W M 7 P Target Model in 38 special. I had done a lot of business with the gun shop owner and he gave me a super deal on the old revolver and he threw in a Whit box of Winchester lead rounds. I reload so they sat on the shelf in my reloading area for a few years. One day, I took them with me to the range and when I pulled the tray of cartridges out of the box, I instantly noticed something that didn't look right. Towards one end of the tray I realized there was a cartridge with the primer seated upside down - so I guess things "do happen" with factory ammo.

Actually, though, I remember thinking that I shouldn't feel too bad . . . . I hand prime all my ammo - started out with a Lee hand Primer and now use a Frankforf Arsenal hand primer . . . and as careful as I am, I have been guilty of installing several primers upside down . . . easy enough to do if you happen to miss a primer that is upside down when you fill the tray!

[JSnover]

Here's the difference: WE get to inspect Every Single One of our reloads and we stop loading when something goes wrong, or double-check when something looks wrong and somehow we still get an occasional "incident" in the reloading community. With factory ammo someone else does the inspection and when you buy a new gun it generally comes with a warning or disclaimer that you're on your own if you use reloads because just like We don't know what They're doing, They don't Know what We're doing and we tend not to trust each other.
If these message boards didn't contain a single story about how a reloader made a mistake and let a bad round got into the chamber I'd agree: factory ammunition isn't as safe but there are entire threads on reloading-related sights about what went wrong at someone's reloading bench.
Now, let's talk about reduced loads and fillers!

[robg]

a friend had a 223 hornaday factory load with the primer upside down last week .first ive seen in nearly 40 years shooting and reloading .

[dverna]

Back in H.S. in the 1960's We shot a LOT of Trap some Skeet. My Dad would buy a dozen cases of Win 12AA. And that was back when a case on shotgun shells were 20 boxes to the case.
Shooting an NSSA Match as Junior, I was up on the line for my 3rd rd. Had a 50 straight working on a 75 straight. 23 straight took the option at 8, CLICK !!!!! A BLASTED DUD, A FACTORY DUD !!!!.
It rattled Me something terrible. I didn't shoot above a 23 for the rest of the weekend.
No anvil in the primer.
I still have a Remington .25-06 round with a malformed neck from 45yrs ago.

Trust factory ammo ? Nope never, seen too many bad factory rounds of all type. Even a box of Federal 7mm Mauser without powder in 2 cartridges.

I know the feeling. At the Grand in 2009 or 2010. I was in a shoot off for a Kolar Trap Combo. Before the shoot off my buddy told me to use factory ammo and just pitch the hulls...no distraction...just concentrate and shoot the damn birds. Was shooting a straight from the Handicap line. Then I had a dud on about the 20th bird. It rattled me and I lost. Good strong FP dent so it was not the gun. Took the shell to the Winchester booth and they gave me a box of shells...big freaking deal. IIRC the Kolar was worth about $14k...the most expensive miss I have ever had.

Shot reloads the rest of the Grand. No FTF in over 1200 rounds.

[fredj338]

I have seen all manner of factory ammo failures, it happens. Produce 5B rds a year, bound to get a machine out of sink & some bad rds get thru.

[Mal Paso]

Factory Ammo is someone else's loads. I do have some factory ammo and will use it if I run out of the good stuff.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

So many good reasons to carry a revolver - stuffed with reloads.

I agree and most factory hollow point boolits aren't as good as a soft cast powder coated hollow point. Only reloads in my carry guns.

[BJK]

I try to buy as few factory loads as possible. And I NEVER buy Remington ammo anymore. 2 dedaes ago I bought a few boxes of their .17 Rem ammo and it was pure garbage. I had velocities as low as 2000 fps and as high as I just don't remember but hard extraction. I disassembled all of the remainder to get what I could out of it. Those were expensive components.

[BunkTheory]

Have had far to many issues with ammuniton last few years...

currently have one round that the base of the bullet is LARGER then the portion outisde the neck based upon the swelling, and two more that have the funny problem of THE CASE HEAD IS AT AN ANGLE TO THE CENTERLINE OF THE CARTRIDGE.

And of course a dubious box of winchester 38 specials were 13 or so had such bad crimping they qualified as being necked down to 32 acp..

[blackthorn]

Forty some years ago I bought my son a 30-06. Got a box of factory ammunition and went to sight it in for him. Loading single rounds and the fifth one would not chamber but all the rest did. Sent the bad round to the maker, got a letter of apology along with a cheque sufficient to buy two boxes of ammunition so, good service. Now, when I either buy or build ammunition I always cycle each round through the firearm before I go afield.

[Geezer in NH]

There is a reason Remington Thunderbolts are called "Thunderduds"

[Savvy Jack]

So that was one. Out of how many millions?
And let's not forget, "Never Shoot Anyone Else's Reloads"
Factory loads are as safe as anything else, if the average handloader cranked out as many rounds as the factories we'd hear more stories like this.

How many does it take to blow off your hand? Just asking!

I have had plenty of problems with factory ammo

[beemer]

I shot SKS carbines a lot years ago, mostly Norinco steel case stuff. There was a muffled pop and a little smoke from around the bolt head. We waited a while and ejected the round. Turned out the case had no flash hole. The rest of the box fired properly.

I have fired a lot of Norinco in several calibers and a lot of mil-surp ammo over the years and that is the only one that failed unless it was poorly stored junk.

Of course I have had some of 22 RF failures but it seemed that years ago the quality was better.

[JSnover]

How many does it take to blow off your hand? Just asking!

I have had plenty of problems with factory ammo


If you could match the production figures of any ammunition factory it's pretty near certain you'd send a bad round once in a while, unless you personally could inspect every one of those millions of rounds, the way you do at your bench. So you can argue that there is an added measure of safety, since each of us is our own QC inspector but we've heard plenty of stories, seen plenty of photos of what happens when reloaded ammo is 'defective.'
You can vow to Never Shoot Factory Ammunition if you want, I'm ok with that.
On this site you'll find detailed instruction on making your own powder, recharging primers, even machining your own brass cases and steel dies but I don't have time for any of that. My boolits are cast in the garage, everything else came from a factory and I'm as careful with my factory loads as I am with my reloads. Haven't lost any body parts yet.

[megasupermagnum]

There is a reason Remington Thunderbolts are called "Thunderduds"

Did they ever sell them in a bucket? I distinctly remember buying a small bucket, about a paint can size of Remington 22LR. So this is a rather common issue with Remington 22LR?

[Sasquatch-1]

I think they sold the Thunderbolts and Golden Bullet by the bucket.

[tja6435]

I have a few buckets of Remington Golden Bullet .22lr that I paid $57/ea for. I haven’t opened or shot any, but I expect that when our 4 boys are old enough, they’ll run through it all.