Anybody hunt with a .45 ACP or have hunting loads?

[roverboy]

Just wondered if anybody here hunts with a .45 ACP and had load reccomendations. I was thinking a Lee 230 gr. cast FP would be ok at 25 yards or so with a + P level load. Worked up to of course.

[r80rt]

I've killed several whitetails with a 1911 or a Ruger blackhawk with the .45 acp cylinder and the Lee 230 FP, standard velocity loads. keep it under 50 yards and pick your shot.

[35remington]

In a 625-3. Also a 1911.

Would suggest a 452423 or similar in the revolver at 950 fps which is certainly +P approximate. 50 yards or less is a good self imposed limit to ensure good placement with a double lung shot preferred.

A cast bullet with decent meplat is somewhat less limiting with sharp angling shots as opposed to a jacketed HP, again, in my opinion.

[Char-Gar]

Hunt what? A 45 cal 200 grain bullet with a decent meplat, going 800-900 fsp will kill any deer grave yard dead at any reasonable handgun range. Hunting something bigger, think more handgun.

[Idaho45guy]

Hunting with the .45 acp at under 1000 fps on deer-sized game is unethical in my opinion. There, I said it.

Shooting wild animals with barely adequate loads is just poor sportsmanship. Very few people have the skill to place a shot in the exact spot needed in order to get a humane shot using barely adequate loads.

I killed my first elk with a .257 Roberts and 120 grain Nosler Partitions at 269 yards. I was under the scrutiny of a friend of Jack O'Connor's and was a natural shot at 13 years of age.

The .45 acp simply lacks the horsepower to reach the vitals and deliver the energy required to make a clean kill.

It's fine for human opponents trying to steal your rent money, but game animals deserve more respect and efficient kills.

[stubshaft]

I've harvested a bunch of hogs and goats using a 1911 loaded with 9.0 AA#5 behind an old Speer 200gr. HP (flying ashtray). Hits HARD and they end up DRT!

[echo154]

I have shot several Arkansas razors with my Gov. 1911 45. (more 45 super #20 spring, starline super brass, ramshot enforcer- 1000-1050 fps). but I prefer my 1911 commander bobtail in 50 GI 275gr fmj at 875fps or 950 if you go a little hot. My first hog was a surprise .....he came running through the brush at me.....couldn't get my M1a scout into action so it was a reflex draw at about 7 yards, after I donned fresh underwear!!!!! I took the hog to camp. I hit him in the right eye....bullet traveled back and deflected down into his spine.....I marked that spot down for future reference:-D

[kingrj]

Yes...S&W 4506-1 with reddot holosight...255 grain hardcast flat nosed bullet....loaded to Super level. I have never had a bullet bounce off a deer...All deer killed with it never ran over 25 yards.

[35remington]

Given my shots were through and throughs, reaching the vitals was not an issue. One was lengthwised.

[Bigslug]

No need for +P.

290116

Hard alloy LBT 452-230 LFN recovered from 9th milk jug in the stack driven at standard GI hardball speed of 830fps. About a .32" meplat on that bullet, as I recall. Ruptured the first three jugs and straight-lined the rest.

Remember that the Army had notions of dealing with horses with both the Peacemaker and the 1911.

[roverboy]

Hunt what? A 45 cal 200 grain bullet with a decent meplat, going 800-900 fsp will kill any deer grave yard dead at any reasonable handgun range. Hunting something bigger, think more handgun.

I meant deer. Sorry about that.

[r80rt]

You don't need a cannon to kill whitetail, they were nearly wiped out during the depression by people using .22 shorts.

[littlejack]

For the nay-sayers, people won't think twice about using the longstanding 45 Colt cartridge at 900 fps to hunt deer, AND other game. But, some are quick to deny the ability of the 45 acp to do the same job. I've taken two deer with a S&W 57. A 220 grain 410459 @1000 fps. Both taken at about 50 yards. I wouldn't feel under gunned (at all) with the 230 - 250 grain slugs at 850 to 900 fps. I've clocked the Lee 255 rfn @ 916 fps with a heavy dose of Herco. That's out of my PT1911. What's not to like?

[Catshooter]

Well Idaho, your opinion runs counter to a whole of men on this forum who over the years have reported many, many successes with the ACP. There, I said it.

[Jedman]

290200290200Most will laugh but I built a Hi Point JHP 45 ACP for deer hunting. I lived in OH then and it is a legal caliber if it has at least a 5” barrel so I rebarreled mine with a 1 - 12 twist barrel with a treaded muzzle.
It was to be a tree stand / blind gun as I figured anything in archery range would be fair game with the pistol.
Problem was the land I hunted for 15 + years was sold to the “ Metroparks” and is now a reserve with no hunting allowed. I now live in MI and I believe it is legal here also, just need to find hunting areas to use it.
I have killed whitetails, antelope, and hogs with a carbine in 45 ACP so there is no doubt it will do the job.

Jedman

[Thumbcocker]

290200Most will laugh but I built a Hi Point JHP 45 ACP for deer hunting. I lived in OH then and it is a legal caliber if it has at least a 5” barrel so I rebarreled mine with a 1 - 12 twist barrel with a treaded muzzle.
It was to be a tree stand / blind gun as I figured anything in archery range would be fair game with the pistol.
Problem was the land I hunted for 15 + years was sold to the “ Metroparks” and is now a reserve with no hunting allowed. I now live in MI and I believe it is legal here also, just need to find hunting areas to use it.
I have killed whitetails, antelope, and hogs with a carbine in 45 ACP so there is no doubt it will do the job.

Jedman

Since you have already started customizing that hipoint maybe you could get it engraved. Then again beauty is as beauty does.

[Rapier]

The flat nose 45 ACP will do the job for a fact. Just keep the distance and shot placement in a reasonable range.

[scattershot]

A friend of mine killed a deer with a .380. Just sayin’.

Not that it’s ethical or recommended, but it happened. If you get close and pick your shot, I think the .45 would be adequate. For the record, though, I’ve never done it.

[roverboy]

290200Most will laugh but I built a Hi Point JHP 45 ACP for deer hunting. I lived in OH then and it is a legal caliber if it has at least a 5” barrel so I rebarreled mine with a 1 - 12 twist barrel with a treaded muzzle.
It was to be a tree stand / blind gun as I figured anything in archery range would be fair game with the pistol.
Problem was the land I hunted for 15 + years was sold to the “ Metroparks” and is now a reserve with no hunting allowed. I now live in MI and I believe it is legal here also, just need to find hunting areas to use it.
I have killed whitetails, antelope, and hogs with a carbine in 45 ACP so there is no doubt it will do the job.

Jedman

Pretty neat. Nothing wrong at all with a Hi-Point. What barrel did you use for your project?

[Grayone]

Yes very ingenious. As far as the engraving comment, perhaps you can get a pony engraved as we all know ,'One with a Colt on the side always shoots better'. Seriously just kidding. I would like to know what accuracy and velocity on the Hi-Point was achieved.

[Jedman]

Pretty neat. Nothing wrong at all with a Hi-Point. What barrel did you use for your project?

The barrel is a barrel liner from Chaszel. I bored and reamed the original Hi Point barrel to 5/8 ID and turned the liner a few thousands smaller and epoxied it in the original barrel. The muzzle thread is 5/8 x 24 and I have several “ toys “ I made to fit it, a compansator, a micro red dot mount, a oil filter attachment ( you need this ) and I did some work on the trigger.
On a hog hunt several years ago there were 10 of us guys together and several of the guys had high dollar handguns and most were 30 + years younger with better eyes. At the range we were shooting at 50 yards and the Hi point out shoot all of the other handguns shooting some under 3” groups at 50 yards with arms resting on the table but not by me.

To answer the question of velocity reached, I don’t know I tried loads up to 45 super level and at that point I was getting failure to feed problems probably way to hot for the standard recoil spring in the gun. Hi Point advertises they are good for plus P loads and it works fine with them. I believe I can easily top 1000 FPS with 200 gr. FN cast hi tek coated bollits it likes. The gun will feed and fire almost anything you put in it within reason.

Jedman

[Larry Gibson]

Just wondered if anybody here hunts with a .45 ACP and had load reccomendations. I was thinking a Lee 230 gr. cast FP would be ok at 25 yards or so with a + P level load. Worked up to of course.

Out of M1911s the old Cooper load of a 200/205 gr SWC loaded over 7.5 gr Unique runs 1000 +/-fps out of 5" barrels and will kill deer nicely with proper shot placement at a reasonable range [for me out to 50 yards]. Also if a second and/or third shot is presented I take those also. Worked for me. PSI runs 18,300 using the Hornady 200 gr XTP with that load.

[roverboy]

The barrel is a barrel liner from Chaszel. I bored and reamed the original Hi Point barrel to 5/8 ID and turned the liner a few thousands smaller and epoxied it in the original barrel. The muzzle thread is 5/8 x 24 and I have several “ toys “ I made to fit it, a compansator, a micro red dot mount, a oil filter attachment ( you need this ) and I did some work on the trigger.
On a hog hunt several years ago there were 10 of us guys together and several of the guys had high dollar handguns and most were 30 + years younger with better eyes. At the range we were shooting at 50 yards and the Hi point out shoot all of the other handguns shooting some under 3” groups at 50 yards with arms resting on the table but not by me.

To answer the question of velocity reached, I don’t know I tried loads up to 45 super level and at that point I was getting failure to feed problems probably way to hot for the standard recoil spring in the gun. Hi Point advertises they are good for plus P loads and it works fine with them. I believe I can easily top 1000 FPS with 200 gr. FN cast hi tek coated bollits it likes. The gun will feed and fire almost anything you put in it within reason.

Jedman

The Chaszel liners are pretty good quality. I've made 4 or 5 shotgun cartridge adapters with them. Was it very hard to get the barrel pin to drive out? I like your barrel project Jedman.

[Jedman]

roverboy, I too have made at least a half of dozen chamber adapters and made several 45 ACP and 45 Colt carbines from break action single shot shotguns with the Chaszel liners. His business must have really grown because a couple of years ago I could get most anything he made whenever I ordered, now he is out of stock on most everything and when he does get a few items they are gone instantly.
Yea when you don’t need to buy or rent a chamber reamer and the sizes are close to what you want without a lot of turning they make for easy projects.

As far as driving out any pins on a Hi Point I don’t remember anything being hard to disassemble.

Jedman

[MT Gianni]

Post WW1 the handgun choice of many in the NW was the 45 AR or 45 acp rimmed in a 1917 pistol. Loaded with heavy bullets, especially the 454423 it accounted for a lot of game. I don't see the logic in wanting a 45 for a 225 lb 2 legged critter and thinking it is too small for a 120 lb 4 legged one. The caveat is knowing the range and being accurate at it.

[sw282]

WWII South Pacific USMC Pa-in-law said his 1911 45acp would make a Japper change directions:awesome:

[Hickok]

RCBS 45-230-CAS and a good charge of Unique works and feeds great out of my Kimber 1911.


290338

[Jedman]

Back in 2003 me and a friend were hunting in CO for cow elk with over the counter tags on National Forest land and a guy in the cabin next to us killed a nice cow first morning with a 1911 and a bullet just like what Hickok has there. The guy shot the cow twice and the bullets both went clean thru the chest of the cow elk. He said it went about 50 yards and was down, range about 25 yards.

Jedman

[BunkTheory]

290200290200Most will laugh but I built a Hi Point JHP 45 ACP for deer hunting. I lived in OH then and it is a legal caliber if it has at least a 5” barrel so I rebarreled mine with a 1 - 12 twist barrel with a treaded muzzle.
It was to be a tree stand / blind gun as I figured anything in archery range would be fair game with the pistol.
Problem was the land I hunted for 15 + years was sold to the “ Metroparks” and is now a reserve with no hunting allowed. I now live in MI and I believe it is legal here also, just need to find hunting areas to use it.
I have killed whitetails, antelope, and hogs with a carbine in 45 ACP so there is no doubt it will do the job.

Jedman

Sorry old chap but its a NO NO to use 45 acp in a hand gun.. It MIGHT be allowable in a rifle but thats a debate most wouldnt go forth with as it would be upon interpretation of the judge and DNR that pulled you in.

In the hunting books, the options are 357, 41 mag, 44 special, 45 colt, 44 mag, and so forth.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I've killed ~30 whitetails with my S&W 625 Mountain Gun in .45 ACP over the past 15 years. A nice Keith 240 or 250 at 900 works extremely well. None have gone more than 25 yards and all have been one shot customers. Ranges have been under 30 yards, shooting from ground bow blinds. And, as all of you know, all have been full penetrations.

[mjwcaster]

Sorry old chap but its a NO NO to use 45 acp in a hand gun.. It MIGHT be allowable in a rifle but thats a debate most wouldnt go forth with as it would be upon interpretation of the judge and DNR that pulled you in.

In the hunting books, the options are 357, 41 mag, 44 special, 45 colt, 44 mag, and so forth.

Pretty broad,uninformed and incorrect statement.
Poster originally built the 45 high point for Ohio.

Page 9 Ohio DNR hunting REGS-

: With a 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger. The barrel is measured from the front of the cylinder or chamber to the end of the barrel.

Michigan looks more confusing, but still legal except possibly magazine capacity, an easy fix.

2021 MI DNR REGS

Limited firearm zone (P.50)

A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

North of the limited zone (P.51)

It is legal to hunt deer north of the limited firearm deer zone with any caliber of firearm except a .22-caliber or smaller rimfire (rifle or handgun).

This is why it’s important to READ the applicable regs for a particular area, especially since things have changed a lot in the past years.

A 45 semi auto handgun would not be legal in Illinois last I checked, possibly in a revolver.
semi autos not allowed for deer, no rifles either.
But that might have changed, haven’t looked lately.

This is from a quick glance at the regs, I would suggest more in depth research for hunting at specific sites.


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[Texas by God]

This makes me want to take my next handgun deer with my old Ballester .45 auto. Within 50 yards with a steady rest from my blind- doable.

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[lar45]

The High Point is not a bad gun. The ones I have seen and shot all fed fine, no malfunctions and I could hit what I was aiming at. However... in my opinion, they are ugly. There I said it.
I think their good accuracy might be do to the fixed barrel not having to tip down to unlock, it just stays rigid in the frame.
As far as the 45 acp being a reasonable round for deer, I'd say yes. A buddy of mine used a 230 jhp to shoot a small mulie. He shot it broadside at about 30 yds, hit right behind the shoulder, took out both lungs and exited. The deer went about 10 feet and fell over.
On the subject of +p heavy bullet limited use hunting loads... I have a 7" Longslide Hardballer in 45 acp. I put a heavy recoil spring in it and load the Hunters Supply 270 with 2400 for just over 1000fps. The brass ejects and falls at my feet, so I don't think it's being abused. I've used it on 2 hogs and they died quite abruptly. I did not recover the bullets. I can regularly hit a 5gal pickle bucket lid at 200yds with it. So it should be good for 50-75yds.

I hate AutoCorrect

[DougGuy]

If I was hunting with a 1911 I would use bowling pin loads. 255gr wide flat nose or 255gr Keith boolit over a +P charge of whatever powder you use.

On the other hand, I would not blink an eye at taking a deer close range with my edc, a Kahr CW45 loaded with Speer 230gr Gold Dot factory loads. It pushed the stated load 9" into North Carolina red clay and bullet performance is picture perfect, almost .700" expansion.

290609

[BunkTheory]

Pretty broad,uninformed and incorrect statement.
Poster originally built the 45 high point for Ohio.

Page 9 Ohio DNR hunting REGS-

: With a 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger. The barrel is measured from the front of the cylinder or chamber to the end of the barrel.

Michigan looks more confusing, but still legal except possibly magazine capacity, an easy fix.

2021 MI DNR REGS

Limited firearm zone (P.50)

A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

North of the limited zone (P.51)

It is legal to hunt deer north of the limited firearm deer zone with any caliber of firearm except a .22-caliber or smaller rimfire (rifle or handgun).

This is why it’s important to READ the applicable regs for a particular area, especially since things have changed a lot in the past years.

A 45 semi auto handgun would not be legal in Illinois last I checked, possibly in a revolver.
semi autos not allowed for deer, no rifles either.
But that might have changed, haven’t looked lately.

This is from a quick glance at the regs, I would suggest more in depth research for hunting at specific sites.


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the state of michigan doesnt consider the 45 acp to be a straight walled cartridge. the state owned and run dnr newspaper has had articles by their people on handgun hunting, and the only allowed cartridges have been as i said already. .357 magnum as the smallest diameter and shortest case length.

[mjwcaster]

the state of michigan doesnt consider the 45 acp to be a straight walled cartridge. the state owned and run dnr newspaper has had articles by their people on handgun hunting, and the only allowed cartridges have been as i said already. .357 magnum as the smallest diameter and shortest case length.

BunkTheory, hopefully this will come across as non-advisarial, I’m just confused, not the first time dealing with gun/hunting laws.
Not trying to argue as much as understand the rules.

As you didn’t mention which state you were referring to, and both Ohio and MI were both discussed, so I had no idea which ‘hunting books’ you referred to.

Honestly I still don’t, I saw no listing of calibers in the MI DNR book.
What book lists calibers that a person looking to hunt in MI could refer to?

And where would one find that MI doesn’t consider 45ACP a straight walled cartridge?
Especially since the rest of the world does.

And how does that even matter for the northern(?) zone where it read like anything not rimfire .22cal or less is legal.

Are you sure some of my Illinois politicians aren’t up there on vacation interpreting your rules?

Because as listed in the DNR book it seems pretty straight forward, but on the ground it sounds like a classic Illinois cluster meant to entrap someone who has tried to follow the law and perform their due diligence.

Are the cartridge specifications codified in law or are they interpretations by the DNR (or some other agency)

In Illinois we have JCAR that oversees the rules adopted by different agencies.
So you have to read not only the law, but then find the associated rules, which is not always easy and they are prone to changing.

We also have legislators that use the term ‘concealed firearm’ in our concealed carry bill, but defined ‘concealed firearms’ to mean handguns just for that section of code.
Elsewhere handgun means handgun and firearms mean firearms.
Makes a confusing mess for someone who reads that act, but misses that one very misleading definition.

And we keep voting them in.

[44MAG#1]

2021Michigan hunting regulations.
"• A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but
cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine
combined."

[15meter]

Works well on 'coons.

My mother had a raccoon that displaced her cat. The cat lived in a custom built cat condo, double walled,fully insulated Taj Mahal my brother-in-law built.

Top was on a hinge so you could open it and clean and replace the rug. Yep, Taj Mahal.

Cat house was placed in the old style wood corn crib, 'coon moved in displacing the cat, I was charged with displacing the interloper.

Lifted the top, 3 170 grain semi-wad cutters thru the coon, thru the double walled side of the Taj Mahal AND thru the 1-1-4" thick oak floor.

No more invader.

That one went down easier than coon invader #2, used 12 38 specials on that one.

The nuclear 'coon.

Pretty sure that one escaped from the Enrico Fermi plant.

[fastdadio]

2021Michigan hunting regulations.
"• A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but
cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine
combined."

^^^ This ^^^
Then Mi. rules go on to list a min-max allowable case length. The 45acp is below the minimum length, which is why it is not allowed for hunting.
As Maxwell Smart used to say "missed it by that much"

[44MAG#1]

^^^ This ^^^
Then Mi. rules go on to list a min-max allowable case length. The 45acp is below the minimum length, which is why it is not allowed for hunting.

Unless I am very mistaken wasn't that pertaining to straight wall rifle cartridges?

[44MAG#1]

"• A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a
minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80
inches."

[Ateam]

Shot a large doe with a 45acp years ago, before I started casting, with a 200grain XTP @ 1000fps out of a series 70. Shot was about 25 yards, HP failed to open but shot placement was good. She went about 30 yards before rolling over all four feet up in the air, I kid you not. After that failure to open I moved to a softer gold dot for EDC.

I live in MI and have never heard of 45acp being not allowed, or not considered a straight walled cartridge.

[44MAG#1]

It is a straight case. It is not necked .
But with that being said ANYONE that was going to hunt with a Caliber, Firearm or Ammo there may be a question about it would be edifying to contact the Government office controlling regulation and definitions on terminology to get an official definition. That is what I would do in case I came into contact with a hotshot Game Warden that thought he knew it all.

[fastdadio]

Unless I am very mistaken wasn't that pertaining to straight wall rifle cartridges?

You know, I was thinking the very same thing as I was typing that. confusing ain't it. I'm just too lazy to go and look it up. The way I see it, this is a Mi. specific rule being discussed on a national board and I personally have no intention of hunting with my 1911. I have better hand guns for the the task. Those who are directly affected by this ruling need to do their own home work. I'll just bow out of this one.
Carry on guys.....

[Jtarm]

Pretty broad,uninformed and incorrect statement.
Poster originally built the 45 high point for Ohio.

Page 9 Ohio DNR hunting REGS-

: With a 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger. The barrel is measured from the front of the cylinder or chamber to the end of the barrel.

Michigan looks more confusing, but still legal except possibly magazine capacity, an easy fix.

2021 MI DNR REGS

Limited firearm zone (P.50)

A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

North of the limited zone (P.51)

It is legal to hunt deer north of the limited firearm deer zone with any caliber of firearm except a .22-caliber or smaller rimfire (rifle or handgun).

This is why it’s important to READ the applicable regs for a particular area, especially since things have changed a lot in the past years.

A 45 semi auto handgun would not be legal in Illinois last I checked, possibly in a revolver.
semi autos not allowed for deer, no rifles either.
But that might have changed, haven’t looked lately.

This is from a quick glance at the regs, I would suggest more in depth research for hunting at specific sites.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Y’all must need two-person blinds, so you can take your lawyer along.

[BunkTheory]

Shot a large doe with a 45acp years ago, before I started casting, with a 200grain XTP @ 1000fps out of a series 70. Shot was about 25 yards, HP failed to open but shot placement was good. She went about 30 yards before rolling over all four feet up in the air, I kid you not. After that failure to open I moved to a softer gold dot for EDC.

I live in MI and have never heard of 45acp being not allowed, or not considered a straight walled cartridge.

last time i emailed the state about it, the fact that the 45 acp is SHORTER then the minimum case length, the .357 magnum is one major issue..

other is that the 45 acp is NOT considered a straight wall cartridge due to it not
having a case profile like a 45 colt or 357 magnum
and not have a cartridge RIM

[44MAG#1]

last time i emailed the state about it, the fact that the 45 acp is SHORTER then the minimum case length, the .357 magnum is one major issue..

other is that the 45 acp is NOT considered a straight wall cartridge due to it not
having a case profile like a 45 colt or 357 magnum
and not have a cartridge RIM

So, according to that the 50 AE would not be allowed because it doesn't have a "RIM" like the 45 Colt and 357 Magnum. They need to get those "illogical minded" rule makers out of there.
Classic example of "those not in the know" making rules for others to have to follow. Goes on everywhere. We let it.

[Jedman]

I know the title of this thread is about hunting with a 45 ACP and hunting loads but I want to bring up the laws in OH for a example. Ohio began to allow handgun hunting back in the 1980’s and didn’t allow deer hunting with strait walled rifle cartridges until around 2004 . The rules for handguns has always been minimum .357 diameter and larger with a minimum barrel length of 5”. This actually includes 38 S&W & 38 spl. but not 9 mm as I have discussed this with the DNR at meeting they had when adopting the new strait walled rifle rules. You can have ANY barrel length you want over 5” and Any cartridge .357 dia. minimum,
not that I have seen it but you could use a handgun with a 30” barrel chambered in 458 Win mag and it would be legal. So long barreled handguns like TC contenders with any length barrel and just about any large caliber you want as long as it has a strait walled case is usable.

Jedman

[charlie b]

Just curious but did OH allow .45acp? I can actually understand no 9mm as technically the bullet is .355 which is smaller than .357. I suspect that might be the reason they used that number. But, that allows the .38spl to sneak in there, which is kinda lame.

New Mexico it is easy. Centerfire .22 cal or larger. Even for elk and bear. No distinction between rifle and pistol.

NM does now have some more restricted muzzle loader hunts that require open sights and full bore bullets (including patched round ball).

[Idaho45guy]

Hunting with the .45 acp at under 1000 fps on deer-sized game is unethical in my opinion. There, I said it.

Shooting wild animals with barely adequate loads is just poor sportsmanship. Very few people have the skill to place a shot in the exact spot needed in order to get a humane shot using barely adequate loads.

I killed my first elk with a .257 Roberts and 120 grain Nosler Partitions at 269 yards. I was under the scrutiny of a friend of Jack O'Connor's and was a natural shot at 13 years of age.

The .45 acp simply lacks the horsepower to reach the vitals and deliver the energy required to make a clean kill.

It's fine for human opponents trying to steal your rent money, but game animals deserve more respect and efficient kills.

This post was the reason I took a self-imposed sabbatical from Cast Boolits for a couple of weeks. I realized that my mouth exceeded my brain.

A .45 caliber projectile, traveling at 800-900 fps, was entirely capable of killing deer-sized game at reasonable distances.

No idea why I posted the garbage I did. If I offended anyone with my idiocy, then I apologize.

[fastdadio]

This post was the reason I took a self-imposed sabbatical from Cast Boolits for a couple of weeks. I realized that my mouth exceeded my brain.

A .45 caliber projectile, traveling at 800-900 fps, was entirely capable of killing deer-sized game at reasonable distances.

No idea why I posted the garbage I did. If I offended anyone with my idiocy, then I apologize.

To whom it may concern;
On or about 10-11-21, @1:14am, I was not offended by a post by Idaho45guy....
Crazy I know, but that's how I roll....

[Jedman]

I did not take offense either. I think that most laws that seem stupid from the point of what caliber and how long the case might be and sometimes a minimum ft. lbs. of energy rely on the hunters to use reasonable judgment in what they use to hunt with. I am a firm believer in waiting until I get exactly the best shot I can before shooting whether it’s a bullet or a arrow because as you say the animals deserve it.
Using a 45 ACP from a handgun is not for everyone, just like using a 32-20 in a rifle for deer. Both will do the job if your patient and are sure you can make the shot you want.
As a example, I once shot a small buck at about 25 yards with a antique Stevens tip up rifle I rebarreled to 38 spl.
It was at a bird feeder in my yard and had a broken leg and was during Ohio’s 2 day extended gun season.
I simply opened the window and shot the deer from inside my home and the deer went about 75 yards and died.
I did find the flat nosed 160 gr. cast bullet just under the skin on the opposite side that I shot the deer so the gun I was using may have been lacking some in power but shot placement was perfect and the deer didn’t seem to even know it was shot. 38 spl. Is a legal caliber in OH for deer hunting but I doubt that more than 1 in 10000 have or use a rifle in 38 spl. to hunt with but at the short range and having the perfect broadside shot I had it was a ethical choice .

Jedman

[mjwcaster]

last time i emailed the state about it, the fact that the 45 acp is SHORTER then the minimum case length, the .357 magnum is one major issue..

other is that the 45 acp is NOT considered a straight wall cartridge due to it not
having a case profile like a 45 colt or 357 magnum
and not have a cartridge RIM

Email is a horrible way to obtain legally binding answers unfortunately, as you have no idea who is answering.
Certified mail to the appropriate department/attorney is a better way.
We deal with this in IL too often such as state police website FAQ pages with incorrect info and more.

Enforcement officers supplied with incorrect info is another hazard.

I’ve even seen arrest/no arrest flow sheet provided by a state’s attorney office that contained horribly incorrect information but was provided to local police departments.

So back to 45 ACP legal for deer in MI-

Ok, once again I am ASSUMING we are discussing restrictions of the limited firearm zone, is this correct?

As north of the limited zone is basically unlimited, no .22 or smaller rim fires.

And this topic is about handguns, not rifles.
Rifles, straight wall case,allowed with case length limits 1.16” - 1.80”

Which would prohibit 45ACP in a rifle in the limited zone, case too short.

Handguns do not list any case length limits, just straight wall.

So the only issue is the interpretation of straight wall, which in my limited searches I cannot find any Michigan DNR or legal code interpretations/definitions, nor any case law.

Again reference from the 2021 Michigan hunting digest-

P.50

I am hunting during a firearm deer season in the limited firearm deer zone, what equipment can I use?
…

A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

P.51
• A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.

[BunkTheory]

Email is a horrible way to obtain legally binding answers unfortunately, as you have no idea who is answering.
Certified mail to the appropriate department/attorney is a better way.
We deal with this in IL too often such as state police website FAQ pages with incorrect info and more.

Enforcement officers supplied with incorrect info is another hazard.

I’ve even seen arrest/no arrest flow sheet provided by a state’s attorney office that contained horribly incorrect information but was provided to local police departments.

So back to 45 ACP legal for deer in MI-

Ok, once again I am ASSUMING we are discussing restrictions of the limited firearm zone, is this correct?

As north of the limited zone is basically unlimited, no .22 or smaller rim fires.

And this topic is about handguns, not rifles.
Rifles, straight wall case,allowed with case length limits 1.16” - 1.80”

Which would prohibit 45ACP in a rifle in the limited zone, case too short.

Handguns do not list any case length limits, just straight wall.

So the only issue is the interpretation of straight wall, which in my limited searches I cannot find any Michigan DNR or legal code interpretations/definitions, nor any case law.

Again reference from the 2021 Michigan hunting digest-

P.50

I am hunting during a firearm deer season in the limited firearm deer zone, what equipment can I use?
…

A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

P.51
• A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.

https://mucc.org/new-firearm-regulations-southern-michigan/

the only straight wall cartridges for handguns have a rim... hence no rimless fun. But the exception is when you go to rifles, you can use the 450 bushmaster

[BunkTheory]

https://www.ourmidland.com/sports/article/Tom-Lounsbury-nbsp-Understanding-Michigan-s-12523659.php#taboola-2

[mjwcaster]

https://mucc.org/new-firearm-regulations-southern-michigan/

the only straight wall cartridges for handguns have a rim... hence no rimless fun. But the exception is when you go to rifles, you can use the 450 bushmaster

Call me dense but I don’t see a thing in that article that mentions anything about requiring rimmed cartridges, they just named a few commonly used handgun cartridges that fall within the rifle case length requirements.

And once again it is only about the then new rifle regulations, not about allowable handgun cartridges.

On top of that it was not an authoritative article but a very generic and simplistic fluff piece concerning the then new rifle regulations.

We’ve muddied up this thread enough.

If someone wants to hunt with a 45acp check the regs for your area.

I’m not going to hunt in MI, so it doesn’t matter to me.
But I can read and research and have found nothing nor have you posted anything that would stop me from using my favorite 45 in the restricted MI zone.

Apologies for the thread hijack, but that hunting HiPoint was really cool and I hope it gets to take a deer someday.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

[44MAG#1]

Even someone like me would check the regulations in a state I planned to hunt in. I know the regulations in the state I live in. I do research.

[Jedman]

I read this and think the person who wrote is full of BS. In the 2021 Michigan hunting guide it says nothing about rimmed cartridges. Apparently this person must think that you cannot buy factory loaded 460 S&W, 500 S&W, or 41 Mag. ?

Jedman

[roverboy]

This post was the reason I took a self-imposed sabbatical from Cast Boolits for a couple of weeks. I realized that my mouth exceeded my brain.

A .45 caliber projectile, traveling at 800-900 fps, was entirely capable of killing deer-sized game at reasonable distances.

No idea why I posted the garbage I did. If I offended anyone with my idiocy, then I apologize.

No problem. Didn't bother me at all. Everybody's got their right to their own opinion.

[Good Cheer]

My state has regs dumber than your state and I double dog dare yah to stick your tongue to the flag pole.

OK, about .45ACP hunting loads. Expanding bullets really aren't needed for .45ACP but if you do use hollow points make them a heavy WFN hollow point.

[derek45]

Years ago I'd hunt big midwestern deer with a 5" S&W 625

I started out using 45SUPER with a 230gr Speer Gold Dot JHP.

Later, I used factory Winchester Ranger 230gr JHP, this was my CCW at the time.

It worked really well. with full-moon clips it was quiet and easy to load and unload, even in the pre-dawn darkness.

the Win Ranger JHP exit would looked like you could damn near push a golf ball through.

I later traded that gun for a 629 and regretted it since S&W stopped making the 45ACP 5"

[bowfin]

Well Idaho, your opinion runs counter to a whole of men on this forum who over the years have reported many, many successes with the ACP. There, I said it.

I believe some .45 ACP loads would be illegal here in Nebraska. Here is the requirement:

Handguns or muzzleloading handguns that deliver at least 400 foot-pounds of energy at 50 yards

Now I am sure people can tell everybody about all kinds of deer killed with the .45 ACP. Here in Nebraska, we kill a whole lot of deer with our mini-vans and crossover SUVs every year. That doesn't mean there aren't better ways of going about it.

I also recognize that deer in some parts of the country are a lot smaller than others. The guy from Idaho probably has yearlings running around that are as big as some of the bucks down south. That may influence some people's opinions as well.

[mnewcomb59]

I killed one deer with my 1911. I was using a 255 grain cup point NOE bullet loaded over Power Pistol for around 900 fps. The cup points had some antimony and initially mushroomed, but after age hardening they would only turn into a 45-50 cal wadcutter. I tested them before hunting season and decided I liked the performance and penetration. 5 jugs is the happy place to be for whitetails. Thats enough penetration to take any hard quarter shot (about like a 30-30, a little more than a 150 gr 30-06) but a lot bigger wound than a 10 jug load like the 255-rf that doesn't mushroom with a 32 cal meplat.

A group of does was out in the clearing under the power line as I was sneaking back in to fill corn buckets and sit for the evening. When I sat the bucket down to sneak up on them the handle smacked the side of the bucket and made some noise. A minute or so later when I continued the stalk they were wary. I got to within 40 yards or so and when I poked my head above the tall grass they were looking right at me. They took a couple big jumps back towards the safety of the woods then stopped and looked over their shoulders at me. I shot one of them right up the butt and the bullet penetrated all the way into the neck in front of the opposite shoulder. It knocked the deer right down, then it got up and ran maybe 30-40 yards. Minimal meat damage and very satisfactory performance.

I would recommend against using most JHPs unless it is something that is known to penetrate on the deep end of what the FBI considers acceptable. Critical Duty is a minimal mushrooming bullet with a 3% antimony core designed to stay together through auto glass and sheet metal for law enforcement. It penetrates at the very upper end of acceptable for those guys, which is a nice range to be in for deer. Stay away from JHP known to penetrate in the 12" range and mushroom huge. If you go that route you want JHP that mushroom moderately and penetrate 16-22". Stay away from most 185 grain bullets. The 200 XTP oddly enough penetrates more than the 230 XTP because the 200 grain has more controlled expansion. Or just choot'em with the lee 200-RF, 255-RF, or a cast hollow point in the 250 gr range. Most standard weight cast hollow points mushroom too big and penetrate 8-10" (2 jugs of water) and you are lucky if you get one that penetrates to FBI minimum, 12" gel or 3 jugs of water. I do not recommend the Lee 230-TC because the small rounded meplat is smaller than most 38 special bullets. Get a meplat .32" or larger to make a big bore wound. Also the 230-TC does not penetrate in a straight line.

[Good Cheer]

These days this 230 grain is the closest thing I have to a heavy WFNHP.
http://i.imgur.com/38o7yNM.jpg (https://imgur.com/38o7yNM)
Haven't hunted with it but the picture illustrates the possibilities with heavy .45ACP boolits.
I particularly like the design because it can be molded much softer than the one shown above and the nose geometry pretty much precludes any hang ups in feeding.

[white eagle]

Hunt what? A 45 cal 200 grain bullet with a decent meplat, going 800-900 fsp will kill any deer grave yard dead at any reasonable handgun range. Hunting something bigger, think more handgun.

exactly
take your time pick your spot and a unaware whitetail will be yours
now there is a lot to be said about a riled up or chased deer with a full load of adrenalin pumping
but calm bow hunting type hunt get your knives and freezer wrap

[cwlongshot]

RCBS 38-150-KT!

She casts beautifully!!

https://youtu.be/YaeZ-oyATKY

[Kosh75287]

There is a projectile made by Missouri Bullet Company similar to the SAECO #58 215 gr. LSWC, that they market as ".45 Express-Grooveless", for the .460 Rowland cartridge. This projectile, powered by as much Unique or Power Pistol as is safe, would be MY choice for short-range white tails with a .45 ACP. In fact, I've already done such a work-up.

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=426&category=24&secondary=13&keywords=

[gwpercle]

Back in the mid 1970's several of us got into Hog Hunting and a couple of us had 1911's in 45 acp . Speer had a 225 grain JHP that looked to just the ticket for Hogs in the Swamps .
Speer Reloading Manual number Nine said a max load of 7.0 grs. Unique under that Speer 225 gr. JHP would yield 924 fps ... we felt that would do the job .
We loaded up a few hundred and practiced ... made sight adjustments and went hunting .
We both took two hogs that year and the 45's did the job but to be honest I didn't like pushing the 1911 that hard ... the recoil was stout and had to be hard on our guns .
I have went back to magnum revolvers for game hunting ... my favorite is 41 Magnum ...
But the 45 acp / 225 gr. JHP / 7.0 grs. Unique did kill hogs rather nicely with a well placed shot .
Gary

[murf205]

Even someone like me would check the regulations in a state I planned to hunt in. I know the regulations in the state I live in. I do research.

Research is always good but it reminds me of the time I called the State Police office near the place I was going to hunt in Ohio and asked them about transporting a handgun in a vehicle in Ohio. The lady that answered the phone referred me to an officer there and when she got on the phone and I asked her the question, she said that she wasn't clear on the answer and she would call me back to let me know. That was about 8 or 9 yrs ago and I'm still waiting for the call.
Now about the 45 ACP High Point: yes they are a bit ugly [I]to some[I]but they are dead on reliable. My non casting buddy bought one and I loaded him some ammo with this boolit305651 with a meplat that only a revolver could love and it feeds like a hungry dog-in HIS High Point at least.

[FergusonTO35]

Hornady now makes a solid copper JHP .45 ACP load that is advertised for hunting. They don't officially recommend it for deer, but I think that is implied since .45 caliber would be an odd choice for anything smaller.

[Bigslug]

My next .45 mold will be the Accurate 45-230H. As best I can divine after careful measurements, it has the same profile as my EXTREMELY 1911-friendly LBT 452-230 LFN, but in the the tumble-lube format I've come to prefer.

I do not think ramping up to +P specs really does anything for you except beat your gun up faster. At standard hardball velocity of 830 fps that LBT took nine milk jugs / 6 feet worth of water to bring to a stop. Put it on a straight line to something important, and it'll likely do.

305875

305876

[lar45]

As long as we're kicking around an old thread...
The Hunters Supply 45-275 with Bluedot goes around 950fps from my 7" Longslide Hardballer. I do have a heavier spring in it and the cases just tumble out.
https://www.hunters-supply.com/images/thumbs/250_250/sc_452_45_275_FP_g.jpg