Bullet Diameter for 450 bore

[echo154]

The bore on my C sharp slugs out at .4495/.450. I have a supply of Seth Cole 55 which mics at .0016 to .0018. depending on humidity I guess. I want to try a .443 slick but only seem to find .442/.444 at BACO. I will get a custom mold once I find a good candidate. It's a 34" BBL 1x18 twist 45-2 7/8. The other I'm concerned with, since its a heavy 550gr slug, is alloy. would 20-1 be better than pure lead as far as bullet distortion.

[Hiwall55]

Depends on nose shape, 16-1 would be better, get a mould from Accurate molds to try before buying a expensive mould. I use 55y wrapping my .446 diameter money and it finishes up at .4505

[Don McDowell]

Depending on how far you plan to shoot the bullet, you may want to give serious consideration to keeping the bullet length to 1.45 or a bit shorter for that 18 twist.
Also what are you planning to do with it hunt, plink or sillhouette/target rifle matches. .444 will cover most of it ok, altho you can get more dirt diggers at 1000 yards with that diameter. .446 is a good diameter for target/silhoutte matches, but wiping between shots is the only way you'll maintain any useful accuracy.
20-1 will work , but you may find 16-1 to give a bit better long range accuracy, as Hiwall said depending a lot on the nose profile.

[rfd]

Perhaps a .444 slick of the appropriate length and weight for a 1:18 twist like a BACO JIM444530E, 16:1 alloy, and wrapped in Seth Cole 7# paper ... ?

https://i.imgur.com/FjAirL5.jpg

[echo154]

Well I could only find pure lead swaged .444/550 slicks at BACO. I ordered a 100 to see. If it shoot fairly well I might get a mold a try 20-1/16-1! Nice lookin bore stuffers RFD I've got the Seth Cole just waiting on the bullets.

[rfd]

Well I could only find pure lead swaged .444/550 slicks at BACO. I ordered a 100 to see. If it shoot fairly well I might get a mold a try 20-1/16-1! Nice lookin bore stuffers RFD I've got the Seth Cole just waiting on the bullets.

Pure lead is not the way to go, IMHO. It will also cast and size differently than if it was cast with a tin alloy. You want 1:16, trust me.

PM me with yer shipping address and I'll send ya some of my 1:16 JIM444530E slicks and PPBs. This way you'll know if that BACO mold will work for yer rifle and if so, then you can confidently spend the $200 or so mold bucks and not be gambling.

This is the hardest part (well, maybe) of getting into the PPB game - what mold, what diameter, what paper and thickness. It may seem daunting, but it really ain't that bad, but it might lighten yer piggy bank for no good reason. ;)

[JKR]

I have to agree with those who say 16:1 is the way to go.
I’ve been working up a long range load for a new C Sharps 45-70. I started with a well proven bullet from a borrowed Distant Thunder mold that shot very well in my Shiloh rifle. That bullet was a bit loose in the C Sharps barrel. I asked Steve Brooks to make me a mold to duplicate it in .445. He made me a beautiful mold that took only two weeks to deliver.
The resulting bullet is 1.44” and weighs 525 when cast at 16:1. Wrapped in my KC 9# paper, it’s a nice snug fit in the C Sharps bore. I shot it pretty well in a 600 yard gong match with this past weekend but 1000 yard performance will tell the real story.
Take rfd up on his generous offer to send you some bullets. I’m pretty sure you’ll see better results.
JKR

[Hiwall55]

I put 10 bullets in the brass you wanted, .444 Accurate mold.try these and see if your paper works.

[Gobeyond]

Bullet diameter of pre pp bullet. .450 plus favorite paper or .450 minus favorite paper. According to Paul a matthews ‘loading the black powder rifle cartridge’. How are those others shooting?

[FrankJD]

For a black powder cartridge built, the PPB is a bore rider. It's the matter of slick diameter and paper thickness. For a .450" bore, I use a .446 slick @ 1:16 alloy wrapped in 8# Seth Cole paper for a final PPB diameter of .449" and a nice hand-in-glove fit into the rifling.

[Red River Rick]

For a black powder cartridge built, the PPB is a bore rider. It's the matter of slick diameter and paper thickness. For a .450" bore, I use a .446 slick @ 1:16 alloy wrapped in 8# Seth Cole paper for a final PPB diameter of .449" and a nice hand-in-glove fit into the rifling.

Interesting. My question is, where did you find paper that is less than one thousands of an inch thick? It would only be 0.0008" thick?

[FrankJD]

Interesting. My question is, where did you find paper that is less than one thousands of an inch thick? It would only be 0.0008" thick?

I don't know (or even care) about the paper's actual thickness, only that it works well for the slicks I cast. Seth Cole onion/tissue translucent paper, as mentioned in my previous post, is Very thin. I don't know its actual thickness, but wrapped dry and tight with 2 wraps that .449" PPB diameter is the result, perhaps actually closer to .4495". More importantly, it fits the bore well and groups well so far. These are nominal measurements taken with a Mitutoyo caliper.

[Edward]

What FrankJD said works ,he donated some of that Seth Cole to me to try ,works as advertised (We both shoot it weekly) Ed

[Don McDowell]

Either the SC 55 w or 55y depending on the rifles choice works quite well with .446 diameter slicks

[Lead pot]

The Seth Cole paper yellow or white on my shelf is the least uniform in thickness of all the paper I have. The yellow will range from .001-.0015" + or -. The white will run +- .0015"
I don't like the bullet patched with paper that is at least as thick as the groove is deep.

[Don McDowell]

Uneven measurement or not the stuff shoots really really well.

[FrankJD]

Uneven measurement or not the stuff shoots really really well.

Durn right it does!

Perhaps during ignition the obturation that takes places irons it all out :)

[Don McDowell]

Frank many years ago Rick Mulhern swore by the stuff, and some of us got hooked on it and don't see much need to look elsewhere. DanT and Steve Rhoades liked the Ubrecht 7 lb.
I wet patch the SC paper and then dry on an electric candle warmer, maybe that's what makes it shoot so well?
The 55y also works very well with the dual diameter bullets I use that the base starts at bore diameter before patching.

[FrankJD]

Frank many years ago Rick Mulhern swore by the stuff, and some of us got hooked on it and don't see much need to look elsewhere. DanT and Steve Rhoades liked the Ubrecht 7 lb.
I wet patch the SC paper and then dry on an electric candle warmer, maybe that's what makes it shoot so well?
The 55y also works very well with the dual diameter bullets I use that the base starts at bore diameter before patching.

Don,

When you wet patch, is the patch Wet or just damp?

Does the candle warmer evaporate all the patch moisture, and basically leave the paper dry?

[Don McDowell]

Frank it's wet, I lay the patch on a rubber block cut from a conveyor belt, line the bullet it up and roll the patch and bullet together, pick it up and fold the base. Then set it on the candle warmer. I can put a dozen or more bullets in a circle around the warmer, and when I get worked around to the 1st bullet it and the next 4 or 5 are good and dry. Fill that gap and then next few are done and so on and so forth.
By the time you have a flat of 50 of them done, they are bone dry and you could turn right around and stuff them in a case. I do like to roll up 150 or so ahead of time. Especially when taking in something like the Desert International where there's closer to 300 rounds for score.

[FrankJD]

Good scoop, thank you Don. I'm gonna give wet another go again.

[Don McDowell]

Frank, Kenny Wasserburger and Ian Egbert both have a good video of how they do it. I do something similar. You can just set them in one of those plastic pistol ammunition trays, but often the paper will slump a little bit doing that. Those electric candle warmers work good, don't know what they cost now but when I bought mine off of Amazon several years back they came in a 2 pack for 12$
:) you can tell if you left them on the warmer a little to long they can get a bit ouchy to pick up, but dang they'll be dry enough to load right then and there. LOL

[FrankJD]

Got a candle warmer coming off Amazon for $7.

I expect I'll need to change the patch length a bit as it'll stretch a bit when wet.

[Don McDowell]

If your gentle with them and just roll the patch on they don’t stretch much